FI - Cost, time and qualifications involved

[McSunny]

Hi All,

I'm new to this forum but have really enjoyed reading all the posts - so much info! I've read lots of info on these pages and was just hoping for some advice/info. I have the flying bug and would like to get into flying. I even had a spell at skydiving just to get into a plane...albeit not landing in it! Having read all the opinions on here I would like to keep my main job as a teacher (hence lots of time off!) and do flying in my spare time.

FI seems the way forward even though the pay in hideous (my main job will pay the bills). Also thinking about being the pilot at parachute centres, ive seen what they do and its quite alot of fun. This way I get to fly without haveing to pay for the aircraft etc.

So, my questions are what qualifications do I need to become a FI and skydiving jump pilot? (you're right I'd rather stay in the plane!)

Any advice/info would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

McSunny

[Whirlybird]

Hi McSunny, and welcome to PPRuNe.

Dropping parachutists is one of the few jobs you can do legally (unpaid) with only a PPL. The other one is glider towing, if you're interested. I don't know how you get into it; I suspect knowing a bit about skydiving would help, though I don't know that for sure.

To be an FI you need a PPL, then to do the CPL ground exams, then the CPL flying course, then an FI course. You can instruct unpaid with all of the above except the CPL flying, but you'll be VERY unpopular - see another recent thread on this forum. And it's hardly worth it; if you've done all the other stuff anyway, you might as well get a CPL. You'll also need a Class 1 medical.

Don't think I've missed anything out; might have, long week. :(

Good luck,

Whirly

[McSunny]

Wow thanks Whirlybird,

That was great, I thought I would need more than a ppl before dropping parachutists. I would happliy fly unpaid, especially in the beginning. If I could get this it would be a good way to build up hours (and have fun) to keep/upgrade my licence. Most parachure centres are open all summer (and I'm a teacher so that would work out well!).

Would that mean you have to do some kind of conversion course for different jump planes? - they are nearly always cessna 152's but some are pilatus porters or such like.

Cheers,

McSunny

[Whopity]

To drop parachutists you need a BPA parachute pilots certificate. They normally use pilots who are also parachutists so its difficult to get a look in if you don't. They also tend to use type rated aircraft now and frequently hire them in with crews from Easter Europe. Towing gliders also seems to be the preserve of glider pilots with a PPL, very much a closed shop.

Ever thought of joining a RAF Volunteer Gliding School, they teach with no need for loads of expensive qualifications.

[shortstripper]

To be an FI you need a PPL, then to do the CPL ground exams, then the CPL flying course, then an FI course.

Nearly right. You don't need to do the CPL flying course, just the ground exams.

SS

[foxmoth]

they are nearly always cessna 152's

Almost never, 152 is a 2 seater so not big enough,even the 172 is generally too small, C180/182/185 are quite common though.

[Whirlybird]

What I actually said was To be an FI you need a PPL, then to do the CPL ground exams, then the CPL flying course, then an FI course. You can instruct unpaid with all of the above except the CPL flying.

[shortstripper]

Fair enough Whirlybird .. I don't know why I didn't pick up on that bit of what you wrote? Tunnel vision I suppose? However, I'm a supporter of PPL/FI argument as I was taught almost exclusively by this type of instructor. In fact the first CPL/FI I came across was during my IMC and he was by far the worst instructor I've ever had! That said, the PPL instructors I had were all payed as that was allowed when I did my licence.

SS

[the dean]

mc sunny...

i'm sure you would enjoy being a flight instructor...part time.

i have done it for many years because like you i have another job...

at a school i taught in for many years..we a) had to have commercial licences and b)a level of knowledge above what we were teaching....thats the theory behind having the written exams done but not holding the commercial licence..but we still felt one should not just have the exams done for the CPL but also to hold the licence.

so for instructing to commercial standard we all had CPL\IR\FI with ATPL exams done....and if you have the time you'll enjoy doing the course for the CPL..and then you can charge as well for instructing..:D

good luck..:ok:

[unfazed]

MCSUNNY

With regard to the jump pilot element

You will find a bit of a catch 22 situation

When you have PPL and a few hours under your belt you will most likely be told (like I was) that you don't have enough experience (I was told that by a PPL owner of a parachute school who flew the aircraft and had less experience than I did at the time)...you will also hear that you should be IMC/IR rated as that is a practical requirement (most drops are fairly high so flying in or through cloud is a practical safety requirement.


When you get these qualifications and experience you will probably have more flying opportunities and may well rethink your desire to fly up and down drop's anyway.

Schools employ crews from other JAR countries now (for various reasons but one must be cost). Many organisations take quite a cut of the charity sponsorship that is raised by the jumpers (quite commonly flown on a charity basis but after all the "expenses" are taken out the charity gets the crumbs). So we have a scenario where the unpaid low hours PPL may well be flying first time jumpers on a charity jump with the jump school making a tidy profit. (would appear to be a commercial venture in all but name).

Suggest you have a look at AAIB report on a jump plane crash in Somerset a couple of seasons back. Jump flyers are often working under commercial pressures of the jump school and will be flying in often "marginal" conditions for low or no pay.

[McSunny]

Thanks all.

Some great info...I would really like being a jump pilot as I am used to hanging round drop zones (as ex-skydiver) and they are often quite fun places to be. I know a few Chief Instructors so maybe they would be willing to give me some assistance. My aim is also FI though with the only problem being the cost to train from scratch. However, with all weekends and all summer off work my job is ideal for doing part-time FI.

Thanks so much for your advice all I need to do now is save the money! My estimate is about 20,000 pounds to get upto FI level, is this about right?

Cheers,

McSunny

[shortstripper]

at a school i taught in for many years..we a) had to have commercial licences and b)a level of knowledge above what we were teaching....thats the theory behind having the written exams done but not holding the commercial licence..but we still felt one should not just have the exams done for the CPL but also to hold the licence.


That was fine when to get a CPL you were likely to have accumulated at least 700 hours. However what does a CPL prove these days? The average established PPL has more experience than most fresh CPL holders. My PPL instructors were all far more experienced. A couple were wartime RAF pilots, and the others were either experienced PPL's or ex-forces/airline PPL's who either no longer could meet the medical requirements for ATPL or had left the services and opted for PPL. The one CPL/frozen ATPL instructor I had was rubbish. He was trying to teach me IMC, but was far more interested in keeping his own IR skills up to date at my expense. It was only after my lack of progression and the CFI deciding to fly with me that I suddenly realised what a plonker the other so called "instructor" was. I guess I should have complained, but I was far more shy and timid then.

MC Sunny,

Look at glider towing. It's not quite the closed shop some say, and in the summer months some of the busier schools are very keen to take on a full time tuggy. If you have tailwheel experience or at least some glider time you will be even more likely to get in.

SS

[unfazed]

McSunny

Good idea to check out glider tugging but again do it with your eyes wide open and be aware of what you are getting into (check out tug plane accident reports to see what can (and often does) go wrong