NJE current employment issues & union moves (threads merged)

[AUGEAN STABLE SHREK]

A group of NetJets Pilots has anounced the creation of a Union Task Force.
Purpose of the Task Force is to inform NJE Pilots about the benefits of Union recognition and professional contract negotiations.

The Task Force does not represent anybody, but provides information to NJE pilots.

The NJE Pilots work under 3 different contracts:

UK Contract may join IPA

Isle of Man Contract may join IPA

Portugese Contract may join APPLA

Regardless of Nationality and place of residence, Pilots on an Isle of Man contract can join IPA.

NJE management has in the past imposed and not negotiated changes to Terms and Conditions.

NETJETS EUROPE AIRCREW UNION PROJECT MISSION STATEMENT

We aim to provide professional representation for professional Aviators. Our mission is to enhance Pilot job security, salaries, benefits & working conditions, protecting them from competitive market forces by advocating a "Safety First" culture & by establishing collective bargaining standards that will provide a fractional industry benchmark in Europe. Strong Union representation neutralises Management pressures that focus on profits & hyper-expansion at the expense of the Aircrew experience base & proactive management. Professional career opportunities attract the best Pilots; -only professional bargaining & collective agreements provide durable professional career opportunities.

[hallesag]

:)
I am starting INDOC soon and I am very happy to hear thats someone is starting this union to improve for netjets pilots. A lot of negetive threads on this forum, nice to see some positive too before entering the doors down in lisbon.

[hawkerpilot]

You can still change your mind, but if you go good luck, Unions might help in improving things but Netjets has never given in so far. Every contract change was forced upon us and no one who has been fired has been reinstated except for some portugese guys who went to court. More are going to court as we speak and Netjets can expect a very rough time in the future. The question is are they going to admit their fault policy or register all the aircraft e.g in Siera Leone to avoid the tax issues. The good thing is that at least you are well informed before you start, something we could not say 4 years ago, and you know the possible concequences.....

[CL300]

You can still change your mind, but if you go good luck, Unions might help in improving things but Netjets has never given in so far. Every contract change was forced upon us and no one who has been fired has been reinstated except for some portugese guys who went to court. More are going to court as we speak and Netjets can expect a very rough time in the future. The question is are they going to admit their fault policy or register all the aircraft e.g in Siera Leone to avoid the tax issues. The good thing is that at least you are well informed before you start, something we could not say 4 years ago, and you know the possible concequences.....

Another happy camper !! NOBODY at Netjets ( Flight Crew) has been fired without a good cause. The way the company did handle all those matters is another story.
If you were not informed when you joined, well (LOT OF LAUGH) you deserve your situation today. Netjets is the easiest GA operator in Europe, at times where Global jet is switching to 20 ON / 10 OFF, and many others got days off only when the owner does not want to fly the pick is not difficult IF you want to fly a C550 and above. If you think that your ego need to carry more than 45000 Lbs of fuel then you should go to Airlines and fly 4 sectors a day and ending up in LTN or Bergamo. If you are looking at a closed cockpit door in stainless steel, that you are believing in Airport security, and that the most change you can handle is an LMC of payload, then you HAVE to leave our company, you were not ready for the job, sadly, you did not see the good life behind it, and in 6 /8 months down with your "new" job, you will realize how easy it was.
Of course the company is not perfect and except ( I'm not even sure) the BIG one's you will find more or less the same stuff all around.

Have a great time but stop bitching, because most probably than not, you would not have found this other job without the 2500 hours you have done with NJE....:{

[Smeagel]

NOBODY at Netjets ( Flight Crew) has been fired without a good cause.


:hmm: How predictable. Depends on your definition of 'good cause' I suppose.

If daring to write up snags in the Tech Log is good cause you are right.

If being perceived as a trouble maker (aka 'setting up a crew website') is
good cause you are right.

If being seen as someone who gets on too well with their crews (ok, that was a demotion but tantamount to dismissal which ultimately will see the person leaving) you are right.

If being disliked by certain members of management is good cause then you are of course right.

CL300. You imply that all dismissals at NJE were warranted and fair. To make such a statement you must be privy to the facts, in all cases. The only way you could have that is to be upper management. Which explains your posts.

The alternative is that you do not have access to all the information in which case you have no right to make such a statement.

So, straight question. Are you management or are you making statements without full possession of the facts?

[hawkerpilot]

If buying a bottle instead of drinking it is a good cause to fire someone you are right......

If not being able to put a clients luggage in his car is a good cause you are right....

If landing at the wrong airport because you are given a black and white copy of the VFR airport and surroundings, hardly readable, instaed of supplying the crews with correct information, is a good cause,you are right....(by the way, because they were portugese and went to court, having a portugues contract, they were forced to take them back)

If demoting people because they file an ASR of a small levelbust in the uncontrolled african skies, is a good cause, you are right, By the way nobody files ASR's anymore, wonder how that comes.....

All the fine people at the office who just did their job for peanuts and made a small mistake were a good cause? you are right again.

But you are not right, we all know how netjets reins, with fear and you will soon see that WE are right, the normal majority of pilots who finally dare to speak up!

[hawkerpilot]

BUt, as George Orwell Used to say : "some people are more equal than others"
If people from the management make mistakes like xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx who was also about to land on the wrong runway(luckily ATC just prevented it) you get not punished.

The same guy had a stickshaker activate at high level, nearly stalled but managed to keep the story within a small group of people, then you do not get demoted or fired, what an example to his crew.

On the 800 however we had a good fleetmanager that was taking care of his crews an defending them, he was removed ofcourse......

Ever wondered why so many managers have left, and the same ones stay? think again.

As long as they stay Netjets will continue their fear management and nothing will change...

Regarding the stick shake incident there is a very important learning curve going on worldwide. Major, I mean major, airlines utterly dwarfing NJE are having incidents of stick shake/buffet warning and worse at high altitude.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that high altitude events such as this are approaching an epidemic at the moment but still at the stage where companies are working in house and the information is not yet being promulgated worldwide by safety organisations, aviation authorities or by airframers in a way that will reach you guys formally on the line. As well as the inside knowledge I have running the site for the past ten years I have direct personal experience of normal SOP's and available power simply not being enough for an aircraft to perform as advertised in recent months. Be very careful up there - we've all seen crazy temperatures up there this year and very experienced pilots and airlines are being caught out both in Europe and the US.

Regards
Rob - PPRuNe Towers

[happyjack]

CL300, Flintstone, Mike Jenvey, Smeagels Mum and anyone else out there that might like to believe that no-one has been fired without good cause:

One simple question:
Why is NetJets spending a fortune on lawyers who exploit every trick, legal or not, to keep cases out of court rather than have their day presenting their case that these guys were treated fairly and justly?

Work it out guys!

[Capt Crash]

"CL300, Flintstone, Mike Jenvey, Smeagels Mum and anyone else out there that might like to believe that no-one has been fired without good cause:"

I think Mr Flintstone may have something to say about the comment above............

[CL300]

If buying a bottle instead of drinking it is a good cause to fire someone you are right......

If not being able to put a clients luggage in his car is a good cause you are right....

If landing at the wrong airport because you are given a black and white copy of the VFR airport and surroundings, hardly readable, instaed of supplying the crews with correct information, is a good cause,you are right....(by the way, because they were portugese and went to court, having a portugues contract, they were forced to take them back)

If demoting people because they file an ASR of a small levelbust in the uncontrolled african skies, is a good cause, you are right, By the way nobody files ASR's anymore, wonder how that comes.....

All the fine people at the office who just did their job for peanuts and made a small mistake were a good cause? you are right again.

But you are not right, we all know how netjets reins, with fear and you will soon see that WE are right, the normal majority of pilots who finally dare to speak up!

READ first, THINK second, TYPE third...

First 2 cases quoted, well good cause absolutely, you signed up to give a service and deliver a product, if not well.....
Landing at a wrong airport and doing what they did after, poor airmanship indeed then yes
Level bust...demoted not fired
Lisbon ground crew are not flight crew. period

ASR, and pilot report for myself at least once a tour, this is how we can learn...
:rolleyes:

[CL300]

BUt, as George Orwell Used to say : "some people are more equal than others"
If people from the management make mistakes like xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx who was also about to land on the wrong runway(luckily ATC just prevented it) you get not punished.

The same guy had a stickshaker activate at high level, nearly stalled but managed to keep the story within a small group of people, then you do not get demoted or fired, what an example to his crew.

On the 800 however we had a good fleetmanager that was taking care of his crews an defending them, he was removed ofcourse......

Ever wondered why so many managers have left, and the same ones stay? think again.

As long as they stay Netjets will continue their fear management and nothing will change...

Regarding the stick shake incident there is a very important learning curve going on worldwide. Major, I mean major, airlines utterly dwarfing NJE are having incidents of stick shake/buffet warning and worse at high altitude.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that high altitude events such as this are approaching an epidemic at the moment but still at the stage where companies are working in house and the information is not yet being promulgated worldwide by safety organisations, aviation authorities or by airframers in a way that will reach you guys formally on the line. As well as the inside knowledge I have running the site for the past ten years I have direct personal experience of normal SOP's and available power simply not being enough for an aircraft to perform as advertised in recent months. Be very careful up there - we've all seen crazy temperatures up there this year and very experienced pilots and airlines are being caught out both in Europe and the US.

Regards
Rob - PPRuNe Towers


Hey mate (hawker) stop talking about facts you have no clues with, especially here, do not listen to the rumours too much, speak with the guys and get YOURSELF an opinion.:ouch:

[Smeagel]

Hey mate (hawker) stop talking about facts you have no clues with, especially here, do not listen to the rumours too much, speak with the guys and get YOURSELF an opinion.:ouch:
Oh, the irony :hmm:


Are you going to answer my question CL300? Are you senior management spouting the company mantra or guessing from the outside?


We are waiting.

[CL300]

Oh, the irony :hmm:
Are you going to answer my question CL300? Are you senior management spouting the company mantra or guessing from the outside?
We are waiting.
As I said before, ask on the company forum... LoL

What do YOU think ? You should remember better my posts, answer included at no costs but "search" :suspect: :ugh: :cool:

[Flintstone]

As I said before, ask on the company forum... LoL
What do YOU think ? You should remember better my posts, answer included at no costs but "search" :suspect: :ugh: :cool:


I think that says it all.

Then again, you've as good as answered. That's the way up the greasy pole, eh?

[EatMyShorts!]

Well, just ignore the troll...

[CL300]

Well, just ignore the troll...

I like you sense of humour, But, I have ask you to pm and that I would reply with my IRL name. Your answer was somewhat frustrating.

Smeagel, come on, I did answer your question twice, as for the books that you have not read properly, I can say again :sad: No I'm not from the top management. :cool:
Not that I would mind to be, but the interesting positions are already taken :D :{ ;) :E

[CL300]

I think that says it all.
Then again, you've as good as answered. That's the way up the greasy pole, eh?

Hey mate, only yourself in front of your mirror in the morning do really know the REAL matter of that day. Intentionnaly or not, well you have to accept it, and the last time I spoke with you in LTN, you were happy with the "deal" at the end. So please, swallow, and enjoy your new "legality,freedom, CAP and so forth :ok: " :hmm:

[CL300]

CL300, Flintstone, Mike Jenvey, Smeagels Mum and anyone else out there that might like to believe that no-one has been fired without good cause:
One simple question:
Why is NetJets spending a fortune on lawyers who exploit every trick, legal or not, to keep cases out of court rather than have their day presenting their case that these guys were treated fairly and justly?
Work it out guys!

For the same reason that all the other BIG corporations are doing. Avoid publicity.

" A bad settlement is much better than a good court case. "

Year one of any management school.

[happyjack]

Ah yes, but would it be bad publicity?
Rule number one is actually "any publicity is good publicity."
They could show the world that they are a great company to work for and that all their employees are treated with fairness and respect and put an end to this ongoing debate.
Or perhaps they couldn't and that is the problem!
Maybe a court could find that they are exploiters of the worst kind and that so much of the doings in Lisbon are simply not legal.
Would that be the publicity they would choose to avoid CL300?

[CL300]

Ah yes, but would it be bad publicity?
Rule number one is actually "any publicity is good publicity."
They could show the world that they are a great company to work for and that all their employees are treated with fairness and respect and put an end to this ongoing debate.
Or perhaps they couldn't and that is the problem!
Maybe a court could find that they are exploiters of the worst kind and that so much of the doings in Lisbon are simply not legal.
Would that be the publicity they would choose to avoid CL300?


Management is management, usually, employees do not like management because they maximise their productivity against the employee welfare. You have to fight to get the thing straight, but the bottom line is that it is not always better next door.
The rule that says that any publicity is good, is to be ponderate towards the side effect of public opinion, so this is why LSE and other MBA in US and mainland europe are teaching a more into an in-house settlement with employees instead of going public. Court cases within companies are another subject, and another department in the respectives institutions.
Regarding the office people in Lisbon, I cannot say since I'm down there once in a while like everybody; so rumours and personnal griefs, I do not know. I know that all of them are commited, and that all of them got a lot of pressure, well an usual office life so to speak...:ugh:
To rebound to another thread that was on sometime ago, if you are not happy with the company, and since the grass seems undoubtely greener elsewhere, than one's should go for it immediately, and forget about this "awfull time" he/she had to do with the EASIEST GA OPERATION (pilot wise) in Europe.
:ok:

[Flintstone]

you were happy with the "deal" at the end.


Now I know you've post the plot, what "deal"?

You're right EMS, don't feed the troll. I'm sorry (puts away bag of bread crusts).

[hawkerpilot]

""
Hey mate (hawker) stop talking about facts you have no clues with, especially here, do not listen to the rumours too much, speak with the guys and get YOURSELF an opinion.:ouch: ""
http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.pprune.org/forums/report.php?p=2911784)

CL300,This is a open forum, we are allowed to express ourselves, what I said is not an opinion but a fact. You stick to running the 400, than I keep expressing myself:}

[CL300]

""

CL300,This is a open forum, we are allowed to express ourselves, what I said is not an opinion but a fact. You stick to running the 400, than I keep expressing myself:}


When the facts are wrong they are rumours, rumours are not good when displayed in public.
Stick and 400 a good combination however you need a multiplicating factor, that happen to be a true natural integer to get the proper level. To help you ;your number is not a quotient of it even if the 24th is in the designation.

Woaw.... what a treat.. But you are leaving the company, so I would not have the option to explain it to you , as well as how is the kit working.
Never mind, your next life would show you the unfairness of aviation. :{

[CL300]

Now I know you've post the plot, what "deal"?
You're right EMS, don't feed the troll. I'm sorry (puts away bag of bread crusts).

Come on mate, I do not want to see you embarrassed in public, but you told me this in the Days at Luton. So either, you did not tell me the truth or your memory is playing tricks on you. Both ways.. well... Happy retirement !

[Kilroy Was Here]

I was thinking of applying with NetJets Europe, but I'm not so sure anymore. Sounds like a lot of whining pilots. Don't get me wrong, I have great respect for the working man, the profit should be shared, and some mid-level management personnel are just insecure asholes.

[CL300]

I was thinking of applying with NetJets Europe, but I'm not so sure anymore. Sounds like a lot of whining pilots. Don't get me wrong, I have great respect for the working man, the profit should be shared, and some mid-level management personnel are just insecure asholes.

Do you have an European ATPL ? The right to work in Europe ? Otherwise apply with Netjets USA, VERY good conditions!

[gulfstreamflyer2000]

what about NJME?

[Flintstone]

Come on mate, I do not want to see you embarrassed in public, but you told me this in the Days at Luton. So either, you did not tell me the truth or your memory is playing tricks on you. Both ways.. well... Happy retirement !

Deal?

Retirement?

How bizarre.

[CL300]

what about NJME?

I do not know the operations of NJME, so I cannot comment on those. However it is in the middle East so....

[CL300]

Deal?
Retirement?
How bizarre.
There is a lot of bizarre indeed...Anyway, everybody has to have a chance and a clean shirt to work with. :suspect:

[falconbis]

The HUGE problem of NJE right now is the poor and inapropriated Managers, more than 100 airplane and 600 + pilots this is a major company run by mostly yes man or puppets !!!
look who is going to run the 7x....we could laught about it until you read the annoncement of the position and then you realized how deep is the problem, how far this cancer have gone !...!!! what is scary is that NJE choose not the best professionnal for the position but the best mate already at the office.
let s hope that the survey requested by MB will trigger a wake up in London and in the US and gave him the budget to bring the professionnals managers NJE and his crew deserved.

[Flintstone]

I confess that the allusions in this thread have lead me to lose interest. Fine for those into cryptic puzzles but frankly I've better things to do.

On a more helpful note. Gulfstreamflyer, NJME, I know a little of the operation. What do you need? Might be better to PM your questions to me to avoid the conversation being hijacked. You'll also find some info if you use the search function here.

(Empties bag of troll food into the duck pond and walks away).

[hawkerpilot]

CL300, you seem to be good with numbers.however I was happy not to be on the fleet you manage though I was on the same type but twice your number.that number is higher than yours, but you prefer anyhow to go below the numbers.
How do we know what we know is because the pilots on your fleet know you all too well any don't mind sharing their feelings of resentment.

There are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots.time will tell.

Yes I am really happy I am leaving NJE this month and yes there are no perfect companies, but there are many more that play things more honest and fair with their personell.You will be rewarded by the company with another promotion, on a bigger type, but what is reward if it does not come from the heart.....one day you will realize that money and power is not everything.......

[CL300]

CL300, you seem to be good with numbers.however I was happy not to be on the fleet you manage though I was on the same type but twice your number.that number is higher than yours, but you prefer anyhow to go below the numbers.
How do we know what we know is because the pilots on your fleet know you all too well any don't mind sharing their feelings of resentment.

There are old pilots and bold pilots but no old bold pilots.time will tell.

Yes I am really happy I am leaving NJE this month and yes there are no perfect companies, but there are many more that play things more honest and fair with their personell.You will be rewarded by the company with another promotion, on a bigger type, but what is reward if it does not come from the heart.....one day you will realize that money and power is not everything.......

All wrong.... Sorry, no management in the 400 for me. 2 is not that natural integer then......:eek:

[Smeagel]

I'm at a loss to work out exactly what it is CL300 thinks he is contributing here.

The @rse kissing is obvious and as the saying goes 'He who puckers up to the sphincter will truly receive his reward in Lisbon' (NJE Part 'A'. Section 1, para 6, subsection iii).

Is he who Hawkerpilot thinks he is? Hmmm. A brief search of CL300's posts suggest not in that they show him to have been complaining not too long ago of not having enough hours for an ATPL. If this is true and not a very carefully constructed smokescreen then CL300's motivation is obvious. He's low-time and has already expressed an interest in becoming NJE management. As we all know those who can, do. Those who can't, become management (subject to a few caveats and exceptions). Low time+no personal skills+a misplaced feeling of superiority=Lisbon! Not another one please, I'm hard put being civil to the ones we have as it is. Any more and my 'perma-grin in the face of blatant idiocy' is going to start slipping.:E (see?).

What if he is a Lisbonite? Well then we see his motivation again. Deny, deny, deny. The sausage factory needs more pilots so let's pretend nothing bad is happening. Lie to them at interview (tell them nobody leaves the company), lie to them on the indoc course (same again though a somewhat more honest personal is co-ordinating that nowadays) and keep it going for as long as we can.

By the way. Did you know that NJE management considers that is has had its' pound of flesh if a pilot sticks with the company for two years? Anyone who thinks they will be appreciated and considered anything more than just a number raise their hands.

Nope? Thought not.

[CL300]

I'm at a loss to work out exactly what it is CL300 thinks he is contributing here.
The @rse kissing is obvious and as the saying goes 'He who puckers up to the sphincter will truly receive his reward in Lisbon' (NJE Part 'A'. Section 1, para 6, subsection iii).
Is he who Hawkerpilot thinks he is? Hmmm. A brief search of CL300's posts suggest not in that they show him to have been complaining not too long ago of not having enough hours for an ATPL. If this is true and not a very carefully constructed smokescreen then CL300's motivation is obvious. He's low-time and has already expressed an interest in becoming NJE management. As we all know those who can, do. Those who can't, become management (subject to a few caveats and exceptions). Low time+no personal skills+a misplaced feeling of superiority=Lisbon! Not another one please, I'm hard put being civil to the ones we have as it is. Any more and my 'perma-grin in the face of blatant idiocy' is going to start slipping.:E (see?).
What if he is a Lisbonite? Well then we see his motivation again. Deny, deny, deny. The sausage factory needs more pilots so let's pretend nothing bad is happening. Lie to them at interview (tell them nobody leaves the company), lie to them on the indoc course (same again though a somewhat more honest personal is co-ordinating that nowadays) and keep it going for as long as we can.
By the way. Did you know that NJE management considers that is has had its' pound of flesh if a pilot sticks with the company for two years? Anyone who thinks they will be appreciated and considered anything more than just a number raise their hands.
Nope? Thought not.

Finally you are using the search function, works out good huuu? Do a little bit of reverse thinking then, reassess your assumptions, and find a new solution.
May be the initial posts were not as they look like? Who knows, this world is such a mistery. :)
Smeagel if you are so much lost, really you should stop, but my offer made earlier is still valid: you pm your BB pin I get back to you asap. Pin as you know are only company, and wont reveal your ID, only to the recipient, so if you send me something like KLK34LKLK nobody would know but me, but then you will known who I am... Too complicated ? ... Anonymous you said ? Sorry flint no BB anymore...but you are still on JB...:D

But if you reassess may be you won't need it. ;) :zzz:

[happyjack]

What language are you speaking CL300.
Has a life in Lisbon affected your ability to comunicate or were you just born this way??:rolleyes:

[south coast]

This is pathetic!

Talking in riddles, why dont you go and write a childrens' book as your content would only be interesting and funny to a kid who is not capable of understanding it.

Why dont you just say in plain English what you mean, instead of in round about ways which no one understands, what's the point in having an opinion if you dont express it.

Unless, perhaps you are scared of saying something controversial, or because you know it to be untrue and not based on fact and therefore dress it up.

Either way, do us all a favour and post in plain English or not at all.

[hawkerpilot]

southcoast is right.No more riddles and smoke screens.The good thing is that the 400 guys finally got rid of you. Sadly allthough the 7x is a nice ship, I wonder who will like to go there now they know you are going to run that department.

But that's how the world is like I suppose , evil will often prevail and the good ones will suffer

[hawkerpilot]

"What language are you speaking CL300.
Has a life in Lisbon affected your ability to comunicate or were you just born this way??:rolleyes:"

Born this way, inferiority complex, but expressing himself in such a way that he is superior to the rest of us:8

[Smeagel]

A load of preudo-intellectual babble


Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................thud!:zzz:

[CL300]

southcoast is right.No more riddles and smoke screens.The good thing is that the 400 guys finally got rid of you. Sadly allthough the 7x is a nice ship, I wonder who will like to go there now they know you are going to run that department.

But that's how the world is like I suppose , evil will often prevail and the good ones will suffer

come on you are leaving the company ! What kind of risk to pm your Blackberry pin number, you will be able to know who am I !! And you will see that I'm not the one you think !!

Is it that complex ?

[CL300]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................thud!:zzz:
can you post the whole post where I wrote this ? :confused:

[CL300]

This is pathetic!
Talking in riddles, why dont you go and write a childrens' book as your content would only be interesting and funny to a kid who is not capable of understanding it.
Why dont you just say in plain English what you mean, instead of in round about ways which no one understands, what's the point in having an opinion if you dont express it.
Unless, perhaps you are scared of saying something controversial, or because you know it to be untrue and not based on fact and therefore dress it up.
Either way, do us all a favour and post in plain English or not at all.

People try to find who I am.. My offer is fair, If they(you) are Netjets, PM your Blackberry number and I will answer you.
The Little quizz are just a way to tell you my fleet since it is not the 400 !!
So if you do not understand I'm sorry....My children do though... :D

[hawkerpilot]

"come on you are leaving the company ! What kind of risk to pm your Blackberry pin number, you will be able to know who am I !! And you will see that I'm not the one you think !!"

My dear CL 300, Looks to me you getting a bit desparate.......


name or no name I can't be bothered, we know your character,and it's not a nice one............:}

[Smeagel]

can you post the whole post where I wrote this ? :confused:


You're not really all that bright, are you?

Care in the community folks.

[Smeagel]

It has been suggested that under Portuguese law a company based there, not to mention having an AOC and over 100 aircraft on the Portuguese register, is liable for social contributions on behalf of its' employees. Against this background the Portuguese pilots union recently 'invited' NJE to court.

During those proceedings a senior member of NJE management declared that they (NJE) should not be obliged to pay social contributions for non-portuguese aircrew as they were not full time employees and were only utilised on an 'as needed' basis.:hmm:

So now you know.

[hawkerpilot]

senior member of NJE management declared that they (NJE) should not be obliged to pay social contributions for non-portuguese aircrew as they were not full time employees and were only utilised on an 'as needed' basis.:hmm:

So everybody NOT on a portugese or english contract, there goes your jobsecurity, YOU ARE JUST FREELANCE ! I am sure everybody was well informed about this when they signed.

Next to that I am sure, that all of you have started their own company which you are obliged to do if you are being paid on a freelance basis without a normal contract.

still happy about nje?think twice:uhoh:

[south coast]

CL 300

I dont think anyone really cares who you are, I know I dont, but I would like to be able to understand what you are trying to say in your posts.

Thats the point I was making about talking in English.

If you have something of interest to say, lets hear it, otherwise I am pretty sure no one cares your identity.

So save you riddles for the return of 'Challenge Anneka'

[CL300]

"come on you are leaving the company ! What kind of risk to pm your Blackberry pin number, you will be able to know who am I !! And you will see that I'm not the one you think !!"

My dear CL 300, Looks to me you getting a bit desparate.......


name or no name I can't be bothered, we know your character,and it's not a nice one............:}


Dear Hawker,

I'm taking your post for answering, lol

Only one person took the bet to pin me.... woaw ! what a courage !! And of course he is not one of the supposed Netjets since you know what ? he HAS a BB !!!

" question : is he going to be fired by me ? ex - future supposed top management ?"

It is the same with IPA, a lot of dogs are barking but not a lot are joining...So get a life, smeagel, hawker, and the rest. You deserve your mindset because you are not aware enough. Sad.... :yuk:

I will fight for NJTA EVERYTIME one's would start something untrue, with no facts to support against the company. I will do EVERYTHING i can to stop it.
People whom are not complying with the non-disclosure agreement they signed to NOT deserve respect. People with no courage to stand up can hide in their cave (soon grave); but they should stop bitching, and know their books better. You can say ANYTHING as long as you can support it.
Take this, swallow and shut up..

See ya on the line !:cool:

[CL300]

senior member of NJE management declared that they (NJE) should not be obliged to pay social contributions for non-portuguese aircrew as they were not full time employees and were only utilised on an 'as needed' basis.:hmm:

So everybody NOT on a portugese or english contract, there goes your jobsecurity, YOU ARE JUST FREELANCE ! I am sure everybody was well informed about this when they signed.

Next to that I am sure, that all of you have started their own company which you are obliged to do if you are being paid on a freelance basis without a normal contract.

still happy about nje?think twice:uhoh:





Your contract even if it is an IOM contract is a full time employee contract with NJSM. Freelance is another matter since pilots are initiating the contract, stating terms and conditions.
Contract that Netjets pilots signed is a contract called 'adhesion contract', there is no room for negotiation, in EU law, even IOM this is a full time employee contract. Freelance pilots choose where and when they fancy working, with which employer, this is not our contract.
You receive a monthly statement and a monthly roster, you can play with the words , but the facts are : when having signed, and after your probation period you are a full time Netjets Employee.

Hawkerpilot, you should'nt be bothered since you are leaving.

For the prospectives one's. When a company commit itself with 150+ planes and as today 600+ pilots, would you think they jeopardize this operation ?
Join IPA to get a proper negotiation when time will come; but NJTA is still and by far the EASIEST business aircraft operator of this size to work with in europe.
:ok:

[Kelly Hopper]

Hmmmm.
I know this, you know this. But try telling the NetJet Management and lawyers this!!!!!
They believe they are outside ALL employment laws and until they are brought to book will continue to abuse their employees.
Mr CL300, your loyalty is obvious, but at what cost? I am absolutely sure you will change your tune WHEN it's time for you to get shafted.
You will then find that you have not been working for the "easiest" employer in Europe but in fact the hardest!:eek:
I have seen it all so many times before:{

[CL300]

Hmmmm.
I know this, you know this. But try telling the NetJet Management and lawyers this!!!!!
They believe they are outside ALL employment laws and until they are brought to book will continue to abuse their employees.
Mr CL300, your loyalty is obvious, but at what cost? I am absolutely sure you will change your tune WHEN it's time for you to get shafted.
You will then find that you have not been working for the "easiest" employer in Europe but in fact the hardest!:eek:
I have seen it all so many times before:{

How often do you get a monkey contract in europe ? When you have one ? Look at Global jet they use to have a 15/15, then with no warning 20/10 and sometimes the call : this month you are 30 on...same pay though....
Look at TAG, what is the minimum rest block to block ? 8 hours for the Swiss Aouch !!!! Max duty for the french ? 20 hours ! rest ? 8 hours of course ! and minimum rest ? 5 hours !!!
Having a nice everlasting contract is the apanage of state airlines, and even so Sabena, Swiss, soon Alitalia..... talk to the pilots of these companies. Talk about the options in the far East, do you know how much make an Airbus 330 captain expat in ganghzou today? just 7000 euros net net but based over there.
SO is the contract important ? YES for the conditions herein enclosed, duties, rest, vacations, base, unemployement, etc it is an alchemy, of course WE need to be united behind a banner to be able to negociate the new conditions when they will come. I don't feel abuse, I've been abused on the previous 20 years, yes, with no roster, no duty time (far 91) and the like. NO it is not because it is only worth the perennity of the company, I would rather have a not so shinny contract that lasts instead of a brilliant one that does not withstand winter's wind....:=

[Kelly Hopper]

Yes but the problem you refuse to accept is that your contract is not worth the paper it is written on and it won't last anyway. For your sake I hope you do not find out the hard way like so many of your workmates.
Anyhow, I like Flintstone am getting bored of reading your biased, inacurate, repetitive, stuck record views over and over and over so unless someone more interesting than you has something to say I will just stick my fingers in my ears like you do!:p

[redsnail]

Hmm. Natural interger of 400. 800? Maybe 2000? :hmm:

[CL300]

Hmm. Natural interger of 400. 800? Maybe 2000? :hmm:
But you ARE NETJETS , so it is very easy for you, you pass the selection process :) .
Well done and see ya on line !

[hawkerpilot]

" I like Flintstone am getting bored of reading your biased, inacurate, repetitive, stuck record views over and over and over so unless someone more interesting than you has something to say"

me too:)

[CL300]

Yes but the problem you refuse to accept is that your contract is not worth the paper it is written on and it won't last anyway. For your sake I hope you do not find out the hard way like so many of your workmates.
Anyhow, I like Flintstone am getting bored of reading your biased, inacurate, repetitive, stuck record views over and over and over so unless someone more interesting than you has something to say I will just stick my fingers in my ears like you do!:p

good call:D :ok:

[hawkerpilot]

CL300:"People whom are not complying with the non-disclosure agreement they signed to NOT deserve respect. People with no courage to stand up can hide in their cave (soon grave);"

:(
so far for freedom of speech.......


So let's follow CL300's advise and stop talking about everything that concerns us, close PPRune and close JB.

Looks a bit like the dictatorship of the dark master from before, maybe cl300 has some nostalgic feelings there.

And for those who do not want to follow up what CL300 is threathening:
get yourself a bodyguard

[CL300]

CL300:"People whom are not complying with the non-disclosure agreement they signed to NOT deserve respect. People with no courage to stand up can hide in their cave (soon grave);"

:(
so far for freedom of speech.......


So let's follow CL300's advise and stop talking about everything that concerns us, close PPRune and close JB.

Looks a bit like the dictatorship of the dark master from before, maybe cl300 has some nostalgic feelings there.

And for those who do not want to follow up what CL300 is threathening:
get yourself a bodyguard

What is your signature worth then ? Dumping information on a public website while still on the agreement ... what honesty ! what a remarquable person !

[hawkerpilot]

CL300:" Polishing their shoes....... well why not?"

If we can believe CL300 " Netjets pilots should polish customer shoes,."..Why not? he is asking well ......., let's give a bit more realistic view of the company:


Gents and ladies, don't believe to much what this guy is saying, his view is made in his Netjets dreamworld. He is like a schoolboy having a poster of a moviestar above his head. Nobody thinks like him, he is the dream of the commercial department but completely unrealistic.
Yes the customer pays our salary, so we try to make them happy, by getting him safely from a to b, smoothen things out, but polishing their shoes? If it happened, it must have been CL300 who did it. Actually, we think CL300 is a hoax, Netjets is what he wants to be. Because he is not in there he creates the dreamworld from the commercials. Nothing is wrong there. But because he is not from within but forms his version by listening to other peoples stories, he cannot be trusted.

To cut things short: The PEOPLE in Netjets are mostly fantastic people to work with, OPs, fellow crewmembers, other office departments . The management really sucks, filling their pockets with big bonusses. The Fleetmanagers are incompent unexperienced people which make our life miserable while covering their own back, some exceptions but they all left or were forced to leave, the guy running the training dep is a nice guy as well.
The flying is generally fun, but we are being pushed to the edge and over especially in the summermonths, the turnaround times are highly unrealistic and potentially endangering for those who do not slow down on purpose.
Another issue are our contracts, illegal, no benefits, money coming from dodgy places, and giving us no jobsecurity. the contract is first 3 year then undetermined but has a sentence saying" you can be fired anytime WITHOUT cause", there is no future plan, no retirement and frankly most people don't believe their promises anymore and are leaving, the majority have been with NJE for more then 3, 4 years, make your choice, but I believe there are much better alternatives with the airlines even if you are really lowtime. goodluck with your choice.

[Smeagel]

So everybody NOT on a portugese or english contract, there goes your jobsecurity, YOU ARE JUST FREELANCE !

Hawkerpilot. I believe that what the company are saying is that anyone not on a Portuguese contract is used as described so that means........well, two thirds of the flying workforce.

We all know this is blatantly untrue, all the Court has to do is be shown examples of contracts and flight records.

Sounds like a last ditch attempt at avoiding a rather large bill. Six hundred or more crew backdated for a couple of years plus continuing payments for what, a thousand in the near future?









Has that whining noise in the background stopped yet?

[CL300]

CL300:" Polishing their shoes....... well why not?"

If we can believe CL300 " Netjets pilots should polish customer shoes,."..Why not? he is asking well ......., let's give a bit more realistic view of the company:
But because he is not from within but forms his version by listening to other peoples stories, he cannot be trusted.
.

You did not accept to send me your BB pin , you are still afraid of who is behind ? Still thinking of coming back to fly the 7X ?
NOBODY is anonymous in this world. :cool:

The quote of polishing the shoes is an answer to a question asked in the forum... but you should have quote it completely, and read it completely before.

[erikv]

Actually, we think CL300 is a hoax, Netjets is what he wants to be. Because he is not in there he creates the dreamworld from the commercials.

Hawker,

CL300 is all flesh and blood, and on the NJE-payroll. I know, and so could you.

Nice to see that we do agree on some things and I am glad you've put it into writing:

To cut things short: The PEOPLE in Netjets are mostly fantastic people to work with, OPs, fellow crewmembers, other office departments .

I do'nt quite agree with your statement about management however. There may have been some issues in the past, but most of the key people we have now are too smart to think about short-term profits and bonusses only. Also, I have yet to meet the first colleague on my fleet who is not happy with our fleet manager and I hear the same from some other fleets.

As for illeagal contracts? Neither of us has been to law school, so it's hard to tell. But do you really believe the Berkshire Hathaway Group with access to the best lawyers in the world would screw up the pilot contracts?

Erik

[Flintstone]

How bizarre.

I know nothing about Portuguese court procedures (yet) but was wondering if he said that under oath?

[hawkerpilot]

Netjets wannabees need a clear picture what they are getting into, yes the grass is always greener but the view CL300 is giving comes straight from the commercial leaflets. The first week with Netjets (indoc) they will tell you even more bull like this.

After the first six months and out of the honeymoonperiod you are starting to have a different opinion. The opion I gave is representative of the majority of the people who are in the company for more than a few years. They have seen the reality.
Like I said, the people who work there except for the management are nice people and the work is fun.

When I leave this month I don't leave with resentment or unhappiness, but , like many , the reason most of us are leaving is that there is no long term future in this company with this management. Even under force of courtcases I doubt they will change. They do not sincerely care about us and our wellbeing otherwise the contracts would have been changed years ago. We have given up, we don't want to be working under a illegal contract anymore with no hope for the future.And you should think about your future, you still have probably more then 30-35 years to go if you are young. Go where you probably earn a little less but have a regular legal contract with social benefits, security etc and protection from unions who can fight your contract because it is made in e.g. UK or France or germany, not the isle of man.


Most of us are ex-airline and think it is time to move on. Netjets would not have been able to grow the way they did without our expertise in procedures, strict sop's and trainingexperience, but they do not realise it. The recruitment of ex-airline people is drying up and they chase the current pilots away or piss them off.

Netjets cannot exist on GA guys alone and that will become all too clear in the very near future when most of us "older guys in Netjets" are gone. So long ....

[PPRuNeUser0215]

When I leave this month I don't leave with resentment or unhappiness
With your number of recent posts, it is not exactly the impression you are giving.

[NuName]

hawkerpilot, do you ever do any work or just bitch and moan. I should imagine they will be pleased to see the going of you.

[Fossy]

Hi Hawkerpilot

go back on an airline. If I read all your posts, it's clear that you're not made at all to fly a Biz Jet. I know several of such guys who left an airline and startet working in Business Aviation, and a lot of them are lost, if they have to do anything besides flying the aircraft. By the way, why you left your former company?

P.S: I'm not a NJE employee

[south coast]

I have only been with NJE for a year and a half now, so perhaps some might still consider that the honeymoon period, but most of us are no fools.

We can see the good bits about the company and we can also see where things need to be addressed or changed, the bad bits.

But, NJE has said they are trying to identify the problems, ie. THE SURVEY, so I am prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt, see what they say and what they intend to do with regards to peoples concerns.

I think most people will make their decision on how they react to what has been gathered from the survey, the ball is in NJE court and I hope they play it nicely otherwise they will have no one but themselves to blame.

[hawkerpilot]

the thread was about the fact that NJE cannot exist on GA guys alone. I know you guys think you are a fantastic bunch and always go-minded, but you need a structure based on procedures otherwise you never get the safety of the airlines but the random accidents of the GA world.

The growth of NJE coincided witha surplus of layed-off or unemployed airlinerpeople due to bankruptcies of several airlines.Those people wrote books for NJE, develloped Procedures, had the necessary training (TRI/TRE) experience only very few of you guys have.
You say we are cautious. I say we are safe.
Once again, without the expertise of the airlineguys NJE would not have made it.And yes airline people are a little spoiled, they want things taken care off and they want negotiations about the contract and wellbeing within the company. Most people who started the Uniondiscussion within NJE are ex -airline.
And now the jobs are coming back in aviation they want to have a choice. Before we were afraid to speak up, because if would have immidiat effect on your NJE career. Sounds strange to you? Then you have not in the company for more then 3 years.

So we have finally challenged NJE: You do it the legal way now or we are out of here because now we do have a choice: back to the security of the airlines and yes a bit more boredom, or mostly fun flying but no social benefits and no legal contract.
The point is that NJE never cared about us because they knew we had not much of a choice. The only reason they are giving you guys little presents is because they hope people will stay another 6 months, or year. That's why changes are never implemented immidiately, but always from the 1st of january, you finally got it?

This year almost 60 have left and they were 90 % the older experienced guys who have been in the company for some time, many were trainers, standardscaptains, TRI's. Does that ring a bell? most are captain.Nje takes a year to get someone to a captain if all goes smooth, IF they have the training capabillity.More so if they have to make the guy Trainer or TRI.So they are allready 60! captains behind this year who they will have to train extra next to there growthplans.And with the trainers leaving, the circle is round.
So
I
say again.

Netjets cannot do with the GA guys alone. Fact of life. Now it is too late, the majority pissed off and ready to go, leaving NJE in shambles.
Had the managers tried a bit more ,treated us fair and rewarded us with a normal contract with the same NETT salary, we probably woyld have stayed.
BUT NOW IT IS TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE.

[EatMyShorts!]

But still the sentenceI think most people will make their decision on how they react to what has been gathered from the survey, the ball is in NJE court and I hope they play it nicely otherwise they will have no one but themselves to blame.is absolutely true, this is what I hear from A LOT of people when I meet them on the line.

[manligsak]

Firstly, Hawkerpilot, I thank you for taking your time to teach us lesser GA pilots some great procedures????? (like the take-off brief) (it is known of also outside the great procedural NetJets)

Secondly, I would suggest that you read the statistics of aircraft accidents and differentiate a "GA" accident from a BIZJET accident and perhaps you might reconsider your previous post???? ............... :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: No, you probably won't..........but anyway..........

Thirdly, I have been in a few Corporate Companies now and they all have been great until they have decided to grow. Then for some unanswered reason the management of these companies think it's a good idea to ask airline people how to do things??? and guess what, these guys tries to impose airline procedures and operations into a company that has always operated as a BIZJET operation, the results????? Caos and some bankrupties and unemployed pilots (but off-course safer now that they know the procedures of a 737, nevermind they are flying a CE560).

Lastly, take an average 737 man and put him the CE560 with a typerating and minimum linetraining and see what you get???? Then reverse this, I.E. take the average CE560 guy and put him in a 737 aircraft with a typerating and minimum linetraining and see what happens????? (both as captains)

:O :O :ok: :ok:

[CL300]

the thread was about the fact that NJE cannot exist on GA guys alone. I know you guys think you are a fantastic bunch and always go-minded, but you need a structure based on procedures otherwise you never get the safety of the airlines but the random accidents of the GA world. I
say again.

Netjets cannot do with the GA guys alone. Fact of life. Now it is too late, the majority pissed off and ready to go, leaving NJE in shambles.
Had the managers tried a bit more ,treated us fair and rewarded us with a normal contract with the same NETT salary, we probably woyld have stayed.
BUT NOW IT IS TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE.

You have been well indoctrinated.. LoL This is a typical NJTA briefing. However, among everything WE are pilots. We have all different backgrounds, but the same license, some ex airline cadets saw only one side of aviation being fast-tracked to RH seat of a 737 or A320, trained to and with very strict procedures because it was absolute necessity when you put a 250 hours TT person in the cockpit, but airlines are airlines scheduled routes, in house training and procedures for most of them long term culture. Sabena, Swiss, to name a few, all of them died from their market niche with significant loses. One of the big NJTA issue is the way the company picture itself. We have on paper the organisation of an airline , we are going through all IOSA audits no problems, however the true essence of our trvel patterns is UNIQUE. WE as pilots need to be highly adaptable, this is not disregarding procedures and SOP, but being able to condense and think fast and ahead, not looking at your watch and say , now I have one hour on the ground even if the pax are already there , you have the picture...Or refusing to put pax bags in their cars, not escorting them, etc... This is a whole, it is a subtle mix. NJTA need experienced people wheter from airline or GA does not matter, ,Corporate department often have books well better written than airlines, it is just does not show this way.
I'm surprised that you did not mention the ex military people ? Most of the aircrafts we are flying today have been certified by ex military pilots with the most stringents procedures you will ever see, if you see them one day. ( I hope you would).
So after having bitching on the company, the new target are GA pilots ? Be realistic, the problems lies within you, you are definitely looking for a recognition that you have not found in our company, I wish for your own sake that you will find it where you are going , otherwise it will be the same story all over again.

Fly safe, enjoy and have always tailwinds in cruise (ego satisfaction) :p

[CL300]

the thread was about the fact that NJE cannot exist on GA guys alone. I know you guys think you are a fantastic bunch and always go-minded, but you need a structure based on procedures otherwise you never get the safety of the airlines but the random accidents of the GA world. I
say again.
Netjets cannot do with the GA guys alone. Fact of life. Now it is too late, the majority pissed off and ready to go, leaving NJE in shambles.
Had the managers tried a bit more ,treated us fair and rewarded us with a normal contract with the same NETT salary, we probably woyld have stayed.
BUT NOW IT IS TOO LITTLE, TOO LATE.
You have been well indoctrinated.. LoL This is a typical NJTA briefing. However, among everything WE are pilots. We have all different backgrounds, but the same license, some ex airline cadets saw only one side of aviation being fast-tracked to RH seat of a 737 or A320, trained to and with very strict procedures because it was absolute necessity when you put a 250 hours TT person in the cockpit, but airlines are airlines scheduled routes, in house training and procedures for most of them long term culture. Sabena, Swiss, to name a few, all of them died from their market niche with significant loses. One of the big NJTA issue is the way the company picture itself. We have on paper the organisation of an airline , we are going through all IOSA audits no problems, however the true essence of our trvel patterns is UNIQUE. WE as pilots need to be highly adaptable, this is not disregarding procedures and SOP, but being able to condense and think fast and ahead, not looking at your watch and say , now I have one hour on the ground even if the pax are already there , you have the picture...Or refusing to put pax bags in their cars, not escorting them, etc... This is a whole, it is a subtle mix. NJTA need experienced people wheter from airline or GA does not matter, ,Corporate department often have books well better written than airlines, it is just does not show this way.
I'm surprised that you did not mention the ex military people ? Most of the aircrafts we are flying today have been certified by ex military pilots with the most stringents procedures you will ever see, if you see them one day. ( I hope you would).
So after having bitching on the company, the new target are GA pilots ? Be realistic, the problems lies within you, you are definitely looking for a recognition that you have not found in our company, I wish for your own sake that you will find it where you are going , otherwise it will be the same story all over again.
Fly safe, enjoy and have always tailwinds in cruise (ego satisfaction) :p

[winkle]

i am with cl300 on this one. it is not an airline and during my time i found a number of airline guys reluctant to go the extra distance when required and i also encountered the odd one that went too far. when i was with the company they were trying to get things sorted but nothing happens overnight esp in a rapidly expanding company. i know njta has a lot of faults so does every where else, in my opinion if you get a chance to fly for njta then go for it, the flying is second to none and you get a real sense of job satisfaction when you make the show work. you may think this strange coming from a former employer but i couldnt do the 18 days a month. give me 12 and i would be back tomorrow. fly safe everyone.:ok:

[space pig]

Netjets is under attack from it's Pilots with help from several Unions, because they are Fed up to operate under the current conditions with dubious contract and illegal workingconditions.

Perhaps it is better to leave now before it's too late

Your choice,but more then a few, especially the pilots living in France seem to be opting for this option , But I am sure what is happening in France will also happen in mine and other european countries, it will create a precedent.

almost 80 pilots have left so far this year, how are we going to cope, how is NJE going to cope????? I don't think they can.........

SP

[silverhawk]

Just go. Good luck

[space pig]

Silverhawk, you probably don't have an idea of the current situation, or the seriousness of it.Yes one hot topic of the moment is the question if NJE is going to change in a positive way or that it is just another delaying tactic and rule and divide trick, but the next very important topic is am I going to leave before the rest will, if I wait to long for "improvements" that will not come, the jobmarket might not be good anymore the way it is now.
Most crew are seriously thinking about aplying or have allready done that.
This means the "leftovers" have to deal with all the work which means quality of life is not going to get any better no matter what they will offer(2000 euro an extra day next summer?) Bottomline is that less pilots +more work(growth) = more leaving,

but perhaps that is what you want

[erikv]

Space Pig,

would you please elaborate on the seriousness of the current situation?

I'll tell you what I take seriously. Our new CEO been on the job for 6 months now and the atmosphere in the office has improved a lot. If you don't believe me, you probably were not at the end-of-summer party. There is still a lot of pressure on everyone there to produce, but communications are slowly improving and people aren't constantly looking over their shoulders anymore.

Our HR manager has been on the job for 2 months. In that time he has surveyed a large percentage of the staff, appointed key people to work with him and presented the results of the survey. To me, these showed that they mean business. About a month from now we are going to learn about the changes to contract and conditions. These are intended to attract and retain good staff so that we can man the 54 aircraft ordered recently.

Serious stuff, right?

Erik

[CaptainProp]

I have been reading this thread, not because I am planning on applying to NJ, but because its interesting to see if there will be changes to the better. This would lead to less people looking for a new job and thus less people for other companies looking for crew...

Since I have never worked for NJ I cannot really add anything to what its like, but when you guys are talking about safety (GA vs Airline) something is worth to add...

The problem with statistics is that in many, NOT all, GA/BIZJET type of operations there are no/less of an official reporting system for incidents, accidents etc... Because of this, something that would have been reported, and added to safety stats, in an airline will never show up in a lot of GA stats.
If some of the posts I have read over the past 2-3 years here on pprune are true its even worse then I thought...Some people claim that filing an ASR (or its equivalent) lead to reports being made on you and sometimes even worse... IF, and I say "IF", this is true, one is walking on VERY thin ice! The whole idea of running a safety program in a company is to encourage people to report as much as they can. The involved crew can then, if neccesary, be briefed on the "incident" and LEARN from it. The results/conclusions can then be published for other crew to read and learn from - Thus leading to increased awareness and safety. Only problem is that the company must then support its crew 100% so that there is a mutual trust between all involved parties, otherwise its doomed to be a system that will fail and eventually lead to less awareness and poor safety....

Good luck to all of you, staying or leaving!
/CP

[hawkerpilot]

Our HR manager has been on the job for 2 months. In that time he has surveyed a large percentage of the staff, appointed key people to work with him and presented the results of the survey. To me, these showed that they mean business. About a month from now we are going to learn about the changes to contract and conditions. These are intended to attract and retain good staff so that we can man the 54 aircraft ordered recently.

So Erik, You have not been here too long then, because these are the things they have promised before. Think again. Why would they only do it right now? Not because there are new people on the block. They do it because people are running away by the dozens, fed up being messed around with lies.

Having spend 4 years in this company, all I have seen is false promises, lies and rule and divide tactics, contract changes implemented months before they were made public, you could either sign the new contract or go, safetyculture? report and get punished, I still have the text and signature of a piece of paper with DM name underneath it + signature stating that No-one would be punished for reporting things.

Erik, they have used this tactic for years, you have not been here this long, but for those who have, it is all too clear, they give you little cookies to keep the guys happy another few months and many millions saved by not doing what they should do:giving the guys normal contracts and normal working conditions.
Have you ever wondered why, when they got things changed(real contract and workingconditions) in the states with NJA, they did not do the same at the same time in Europe?
It's money mate. You keep dreaming. I live reality, that is why I left and many, many will follow.

[happyjack]

Very well said Capt. Prop.
If only NJE management could see this instead of being in-experienced bully boys!

[space pig]

I can only conclude at the moment that things do not look positive for Netjets as a whole. The way they handle the current situation is saying enough, but no suprise knowing that most managers in the office have not had formal management training.
What worries me looking at the PPrune and JB forums that the overall picture is a negative one. This company has changed from a prospective good employer to one you don't want to be working for (anymore). Talking to people in the field it only get's worse. People are generally negative to very negative, some give netjets the benefit of the doubt but most are seriosly considering applying or have allready secured interviews. For them it is not a decision wether to go or not, because by applying somewhere else they have allready done that, but when is time they go, Most probably the majority of the leavers will leave in spring as most companies stop their selections at the end of winter or beginning of spring. Meaning thatt Netjets is simply not going to make it crewnumber wise and no pay offer is going to make that good.
The way most pilots are talking about leaving I doubt if Netjets as a company is a save bet for the future, There is no way that this growth with the current problems is even remotely going to be possible resulting in major suffering for those who intend to stay or join.

a good contract CAN be made in a Weeks time, they have an excellent example from our brothers in the USA, just minor adjustments are needed, but frankly I feel it is all about delaying tactics as they are not realizing the demise of this company.

No matter how well all your departments run NO PILOTS=NO NETJETS