Glass is half full...

[Chocks Away]

It seems gone are the days where flying was great... this web would be entertaining and diversified, instead of bitchy and QF-d... life was good but if it wasn't so...we'd look on the glass being half full...not half empty!

...in GA we would all be one happy family (especially in the N.T.). We would network (over numerous beers :}) and help each other into job vacancies we knew on the quiet were coming up... we'd laugh and recount stories of fug ups and experiences had over the day, even with the CAA blokes... over a beer at "the Aero Club" (Sth Side) or "the 'stute". If you didn't have good work conditions... mates helped us into places that did.

We'd word-up each other on up-coming sims in the regionals...have BBQs, bring a plate of food to help out... and enjoy the company of friends...and friends friends... not get into a "my dicks bigger than your dick" competition.

If a jet job was simmering, we'd let mates know and assist with prep, study or training... You'd shout a Jet-Keg on your first Jet Airline job (rarely seen nowdays... as is the "1000-hour keg" and "5000-hour Keg"... major achievements in anyones a career!)

We'd try and make the best out of a poor deal or get into improving it otherwise... and at least be considerate and hospitable to mates.

Good and honourable human attributes are missing in this industry today!

My call is to bring them back or we are the worse off... as has been so bluntly shown AT ALL LEVELS these past years.

[Eastwest Loco]

Good luck Chocks.

I have attempted to tilt at this windmill before, but coming up to 16 year old events threw logic away.

The thing is that the mongrels that were manipulating from the outside to make mates adversaries appeared to have won.

I still cannot believe the perceived enemies never saw it coming.

A little solidarity would be a great thing.

Like I said Chocks, best of luck mate and I will buy a keg if you can pull it off.

Best regards


EWL

[chimbu warrior]

I nominate Chocks Away's post for the best of 2006.

[RENURPP]

we'd laugh and recount stories of fug ups and experiences had over the day... over a beer at "the Aero Club" (Sth Side) or "the 'stute". If you didn't have good work conditions... mates helped us into places that did.

It was a different world on the south side!
used to be nice walking in and talking to a real person in the Briefing office.
The 12.00 exutus to the Berimah. Bloody funny to watch, the briefing office would empty out, engineers, pilots controllers, and FSU operators all racing to get the best spot in front of the stage, and order their sausage sandwich. When the 12.15 finished it was like a caravan to the next show, regualarly ending up in town, not to be seen again for the day!

It wasn't that long ago and it was good, wasn't it. I can't remember disputes between companies back then.
Even good old Mr PLOD used to come around for a beer at the end of the day.

Might be a good post for all those folk who would like to recount some funny NT events.

[Chocks Away]

Yep, that's it... all heading of to the "Sportmans Bar" for the 3;30, 4;20 or 5 o'clock shows... THAT'S where you had your job interview and got a job offer (un-be-know to yourself at the time).

[redsnail]

Hey Chocks,

Get yourself over to ye Olde Englande and I'll stump up 2 kegs. :D Failing that we can have a go at trying to drink the 8 pubs in the village dry. :ok:

Actually, in ye Olde Englande they have none of those traditions. Most of 'em bleat about not going straight to a jet job after flight school.

[Captain Stoobing]

Folks,
This is something I hold dear to my heart at present.
CULTURE.
There seems to be a real lack of culture amongst airline and GA employees. What I mean by culture was alluded to by Owen in the first post of this thread, but for me includes walking the fine line between looking after ourselves as employees and looking after the company that pays me to fly their planes. Its a VERY fine line, but one we all have to walk along.
I see new pilots and flight attendants come throught the ranks with no care and concern for what they do. It seems some out there chose this industry cause, well, I didn't get into whatever else at uni. Nothing wrong with it, but it does not breed passion for our industry
As Chocks said, lets look after each other; help out your mates when they are going for a check, show a GA pilot your cockpit on a turnaorund ( if your security requirments permits) , buy that KEG when you achieve a milestone in your career, look out for each other.
Do even one of these things and we will make our industry just that bit better.
Capt Stoobing. :ok:

[sinala1]

but it does not breed passion for our industry

I am a flight attendant, have been flying for just on 5 years (combination short haul and long haul). By aviation standards thats not a very long time, but even after that time I still have the passion for my job and the industry - I am still thinking/tempted to go get my PPL and move up from there.

Unfortunately, to so many of my colleagues, this is just a job - something to do until they get what they want - whereas for me its the industry I will be in until the day I die...

The question is - who or what breeds this lack of longevity? Airline management? Airline recruitment departments? Gen-Y'ers with no work ethic?

From a flight attendant point of view, I would like to see more done to encourage people to see this as a career, as opposed to a short term job...

[PLovett]

Eastwest Loco

Really suggest that you edit your post here. One of the people you allude to made a fortune out of defamation actions sufficient to purchase a very nice house in a very desirable location. :ok:

I suggest this out of respect for you, not the person to whom you refer.

[Eastwest Loco]

Very sage advice.

I do get very steamed up over the events that exacerbated relationships at that time and the overall effect on all in domestic aviation, and beyond.

Hence engaged keyboard without ensuring brain was online.
:=
Bad me!!

Thanks mate.

Best regards

EWL

[Cloud Cutter]

Good stuff, we all still do the 1000 hr, various licence and command shouts etc, but I hadn't heard about the 'jet keg', hopefully get to throw one of those some day :}

Maybe things are better in this regard in NZ. Plenty of us here are still keen to help our mates (and anyone who's keen) get their next big break. As you say, this culture is something we need to work hard to keep. :ok:

[haughtney1]

When I started out in NZ it was similar to what you guys describe Oz to be.

You picked up the stuff that would save your life someday..over a few beers. In my case I had a bit of a habit of flying under power lines and other temporary residental (on earth) flying techniques. Rather than just a simple bollocking, the CFI at my aeroclub organised a day of me sitting in the jumpseat of a local Ag operator which scared the s**t outta me, and also opened my eyes to the REAL risks of low flying.
I got my first job thanks to our local engineer who had heard (whilst fixing the plane) that a parajump operator needed a pilot for the tourist season, and that job got me a multi job as the aircraft owner had a mate who operated Aztrucks and navajokes...and HE needed a pilot.

When I went to the UK...(after flying in Oz for 16 months)..it was a totally different kettle of fish, I knew no one, didnt know where to start, and generally felt like a little fish in an extremely large pond, and yet all the little things in NZ and Oz that I learnt...eventually got me to where I am in the UK now:ok:

To my mind its attitude...yes things have changed, its a natural cycle I guess, and yes certain parties have done their best to undermine T & C's, but that doesn't mean we have to stop being human beings:ok:

[maxgrad]

Seven odd years ago in Katherine we used to have a pilots P!ss up and Bullsh!t session every Thursday night at any place that have food and drinks, (not exactly in that order). Much could be learnt and much could be laughed at/with. Any and all aviation bods were invited and many a long lasting friendship was sealed.
ChocksAway....DAMN RIGHT!

[4SPOOLED]

Ill start

Opening for a single piston driver rural western australia, suit low hour (250ttish) pilot with maybe 200 series time.

PM for details and ill organise resume to be sent to the boss :)

4S

[James4th]

Great sentiments Chocks, I couldnt agree more and have been saying the same thing for years.

Maybe it will come full circle one day A?:\

[dijon moutard]

i'm all for more "commraderie" but aviation and booze is going to be an interesting topic once drug and alcohol testing gets underway soon in the not too distant future.
and i'm all for celebrations for various "milestones" in our career but pilots and booze are in for some interesting times ahead.

cheers
djon moutard:ok:

[Cloud Cutter]

I don't think anyone's suggesting you should piss it up and then go flying. As long as you don't go to work with too little blood in your alcohol system, I don't see the problem. Just save the really big nights until you've got a day off the following day. We've been open to testing for around a year now, and as yet I only know of one instance when it's been exercised, just to set an example.

[bushy]

Chocks has it right. Many things were different then.
I remember one trip, as pax, from Adelaide to Alice Springs. My kids went to have a look up front, to see how it all worked. It was one of those days when everything was full, and our bags had been offloaded to the other airline, which was about 3 minutes behind us. The kids told the captain about this, and his reply was "yes, they have to follow us because they don't know the way."
And I remember flying in to Tennant creek, very early one morning, and the F27 "milk run" Aircraft was injbound from Darwin at the same time.. The FSO, based at Tennant Creek enquired if there were any spare meals on board, and when they landed the hostie trotted over to deliver his breakfast.
I remember pilots taking leave and going interstate to do IF ratings, and finding the flying schools had been wildly optomistic. So they came home with it half done, and we finished it off here, at company expense. You knew it was worth it in those days.
We had a great big team of pilots, met people, FSO's ATC'rs aerodrome inspectors and "examiners of airmen". We all worked togetther to get the job done, and try to improve things. We had full reporting, and HF radio. Many, many times you would be relaying radio calls for your opposition on VHF, when they couldn't get through on HF. And they did it for you. The only navaids were up and down the centre, where the airlines flew. And no GPS.
Each year, a few went off to the airlines, and we congratulated them. But there were only a few. Most pilots were long term GA people, who worked hard at trying to make things better.

It's very different now. Too many pilots believe what the flying schools tell them, and consider themselves to be only temporary residents. So the salaries are mostly gone, to be replaced by casual or contract work. And pilots are fierce compettiors. Just like in the cities, where there are lots of pilots and little work. It was always thus in the cities.

I wish the young pilots well. We need that comaraderie back, and the quiet pride that goes with doing a difficult job well. Doing valuable work.
Chocks is right, as long as the importance of alcohol is kept under control.
Being a bush pilot is an honourable profession.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

The outback--- where the difficult things get done.

[The Bullwinkle]

Ahhhh!!! Wongai Wednesday!!!

"You no Gateway customer, you Wongai customer" :ok:

[ACMS]

It all went down the dunny in '89
never been the same since, anywhere.
must check my six

[international hog driver]

Ahhhh!!! Wongai Wednesday!!!

An absolute institution in the Straits.....

And the BROWN DRINK!

[Chocks Away]

What a pity :hmm:
... I go for a week and you can't keep the dream alive...
I understand we all have our own battles and wolves knocking at the front door but this is such a simple attitude shift which is NO COST to change !!!

FLARE THE NOSTRELS...BREATH IN DEAP... AND MAKE THAT ATTITUDE CHANGE !:)
(If you don't understand my last comments, please go strait back to the first post in this thread:ok: )

[Capt_CheeseDick]

I hadn't seen this but about time this was mentioned.
Top call Chocks:D
We all feel this problem worldwide, what he's said, just no one said it!
Seriously tell me I'm wrong, because the problem is worldwide.

[Wiley]

I think ACMS might be pretty close to the mark with his comments four posts above to explain what went wrong.

But enough of those negative thoughts... anyone out there old enough to remember the halycon days of the two airline 'duopoly', when the TN and the AN F27s would provide the ONLY daily service Tennant Creek and Katherine had to Darwin or the Alice (the infamous 'Track Trip') - with both aircraft scheduled two minutes apart? (For those who think I'm joking, it was so they'd connect with the B727 services to and from the south.)

It certainly didn't happen every day, but it wasn't unheard of for the TN and AN crews to swap their junior FA for the Tennant Creek-Katherine sector, (but you made damn sure the other bloke had both his engines running before departing). The pax loved it - never heard of a single complaint - and I'm sure there must be hundreds of (thankfully not digital) photographs out there of one white uniformed trolly dolly and the other in the bright orange bumble bee outfit serving up the drinks to the Ocker's in their Fokker.

Imagine someone trying somethng like that today? Some stiched up P.C. clown would have a lawsuit slapped on the company's head office desk before the two Darts stopped whining.

[Chocks Away]

Thanks Capt_CheeseDick.:ok:

Bushy, thanks bloke: beer (keg) with me any time.

We can"t just talk about traditions and days gone bye like they're some sort of valued momentoes held in prize... we have to keep them ALIVE because they are honourable benchmarcks for many people at least... not with standing us professional pilots or this proud industry!!!

Maintain the rage fellas because some fat bastards are getting rich while we're all doing the hard yards.

[James4th]

My "first solo" as a skipper was on the F27 on the track trip and after we took off from TC the opposition F27 formated on me! I tried to shake him off but he followed me, all the way.........all I could think of was the DCA man in cabin! But fortunately there wasnt one. Even though I didnt think so at the time; What Fun!
Today you cant even joke about stuff like that! In fact the thought police are probably on to me already...........

I'm with you Chocks, all the way.........

[Pinky the pilot]

And yet the pendulum may still swing. Dare I hope and pray that one day in the hopefully not too distant future that these previously mentioned traditions of the past may yet return.:ok:

All that is needed for this to occur is, I should think, that we realise that we as a group must all start to 'hang together,' for if we do not then rest assured we shall all hang seperately!!:( :uhoh:

I'm still an optimist, the glass is definitely half full, and one day all pilots will unite and support each other..........

'You may say I'm a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one.
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will live as one.'
J Lennon

[rodney rude]

Hey ACMS,

Wrong buddy, life in Hong Kong is still a bit like my old days in the Territory. (Just in bigger and faster machines). Expat life here is SENSATIONAL and there are plenty of nights over the bbq smoke with a VB in hand telling old days warries. And not a mention of Dixon and his "shaft Ausies" attitude at all.

Love life, love my job, LOVE 16%tax, love the thought of retiring to Bermagui in late 40s, love not seeing Howard's ferret face on tele every night telling me how much he love Dubya, love HK bbqs wth the lads spinning warries about low level beat ups over Anurugu, love talking of the old days of chuckin' green cans around the cage bar, love standing over the dunny whilst thinking back to Miss CrockaFat at the Berrimah, and most of all - love my wife ( you never know what websites she might be trolling) - but I must say, I DON'T like the Chinese.

Seriously - HK really IS a place where all the Aussie aviation tragedies are left behind and the bbqs and social gatherings are still regular, enjoyable and fun filled.

Rodney

[Defenestrator]

:ok: Onya Rodney :ok: Your wife is a lucky girl.

[And Then]

Seriously - HK really IS a place where all the Aussie aviation tragedies are left behind and the bbqs and social gatherings are still regular, enjoyable and fun filled.

Do any of those hard done by, Australian pilots, who have chosen to break an IFALPA recruitment ban, get invited to those barbeques? :ok:

[PLovett]

Do any of those hard done by, Australian pilots, who have chosen to break an IFALPA recruitment ban, get invited to those barbeques?

Which rather brings this thread full circle, doesn't it. :ugh:

[James4th]

Indeed:uhoh: There is not much more you can say is there? The Defence Rests!

[Gordstar]

So many good posts, such interesting thoughts, especially Wonghai Wed and the brown drinks........
Ah, yes, when aviation and aviators were real, good to see the tradition has migrated intact to HK.
For what it is worth, I think JD has much to answer for in this, not that he employs everyone in aviation, but there is a spreading effect from what is going on in the Q head shed.
Like someone said, in the bush, where difficult things get done, the further you are from the big smoke, the better it is, well, long live true aviators and the love of flying ............................. :ok:

[gupta]

We had a great big team of pilots, met people, FSO's ATC'rs aerodrome inspectors and "examiners of airmen". We all worked togetther to get the job done, and try to improve things.

Thanks bushy that's the first time I've heard a pilot give any thanks to us poor old aerodrome inspectors. Spent a heap of time in the Central Aus district, but thindgs are oh-so-different now

[blue belly]

well it died in 89 as a lot have said before...

but that was then and this is now!
happy to have left the mess behind and gone overseas... for me it's all worked out well.

Now the qf guys will see that they should have supported us all those years ago.
The big wheel turns slowly sometimes, but it does turn!

[rodney rude]

Hey AND THEN


2 points

1 - well done for hijacking a feel good positive thread with your negativity

2 - no ban breakers will not be invited. And I'll tell you why - because Aussie aviation is down the crapper because of @rsehole employers, and dumbarse selfish pilots who aid and abett these nazis to get their way. What is happening at KA is an attack on the conditions we have. An attack which is illegal, immoral and one which shows no respect for the guys who work damned hard to make the company profitable.

Now, if you think it is okay that guys are coming in and undermining the conditions we have here by alllowing the company to screw us then you are obviously @rsehole management in the making.

You are probably as vocal as every other other guy at the sad state of Oz flying. So why criticise guys who are trying to stop the slide. We are being shafted and we are fighting to save ourselves. Now which side are you on - fight to maintain some good that is still around, or just let our jobs go down the toilet with all the rest and turn HK into another OZ?? You can't have it both ways mate. Make up your mind.

Ban breakers assist the slide. They turn aviation into a basket case. Someone has to put up a fight and I am bloody proud that it is us.
Fight to protect - the ban exists for a very honest and ethical reason. If you were in our shoes you too would be upset by the attack by the company and you too would be fighting.

Now go away.

[56P]

It certainly didn't happen every day, but it wasn't unheard of for the TN and AN crews to swap their junior FA for the Tennant Creek-Katherine sector, (but you made damn sure the other bloke had both his engines running before departing). The pax loved it - never heard of a single complaint - and I'm sure there must be hundreds of (thankfully not digital) photographs out there of one white uniformed trolly dolly and the other in the bright orange bumble bee outfit serving up the drinks to the Ocker's in their Fokker.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Wiley,
I know (personally) of an occasion when we swapped F/Os for the return sector of a Gove - ISA - Gove flight. Imagine that today! Plus 1 hostie and 1 hairy legged one on each aircraft for the same sector.

Yep, they were good days.

[rodney rude]

Rodney may have jumped the gun on And Then's post and gone in a bit hard. If I misread the true intent of his post -I sincerely apologise.

But the points remain for those critical of the KA ban and supportive of the ban breakers.

Rod

[Fliegenmong]

"Fully" Rodney:ok: :}

[Fliegenmong]

"Fully" Rodney:ok: :}



couldn't help it

[MTOW]

It all went down the dunny in 89Agreed, but the chain that started that giant flush down the industrial dunny was pulled in 1982 by the QF pilots who withdrew from the AFAP and formed their own company union.

1989 and all the grief that's followed since was inevitble after that.

The big job now is for someone of the calibre of Dick Holt to rise from the ashes of 1982/89, someone who can drag screaming the many disparate pilot groups together again into one coherent body that will stick together. (I wish it was as easy to achieve those last four words as it is to write them.) It will be a huge undertaking, with many pitfalls and blind alleys along the way, because we ourselves (or a disappointingly large enough number of us) have shown repeatedly that we will run ourselves off our feet to do everything possible to maintain and even widen the fractures that now exist between the many disparate groups.

I wish the new Dick well - I know it will be a job too big for most men. I just hope to God he's out there somewhere - and not too far away - and if he'll be able to achieve anything while even the last few protagonists from the events of 1989 are still actively involved in the industry will be the mark of of how great a man he is.

[Razor]

I remember (well the first bit anyway) putting $500 on the bar at the aero club on a friday night at Cairns for my 5000hrs in late 1999.
think the next morning had me waking up fully clothed in the bede - shoes still on. Missus not impressed. Had a great night from all accounts!

Should be more of it.

The Friday nights at the cadets mess at Point Cook particularly after some solos is a great memory (well I think I was there, or maybe .......I know I had some shocking hangovers)