Belfast- Nuts Corner?

[pistongone]

I just found this airfield on Hangar and checked it on google earth, its a fairly long runway and i wondered if anyone had info for it? PTA, availability and such like?

[dublinpilot]

I could be mistaken, but I believe it's disused.

dp

[pistongone]

Dublinpilot,
you are the man i was looking for, i have some friends who have a factory on the Crumlin Road BT14 i believe? And they want to fly from the Manchester area(Barton i would have thought) to the factory on a gegular basis. Which airport would you recommend, starting with the cheapest first:ok: . PTA clearance isnt an issue as we will have more than 24hrs notice to file all that stuff;) Thanks in advance Pistongone.

[jabberwok]

Cheapest is Newtownards, nearest is Belfast City. Furthest is Aldergrove.

Nutts Corner closed many years ago - don't even think about it. Langford Lodge is privately owned by Martin Baker and you won't get in there - it's too far anyway.

[dublinpilot]

Your friend has three choices that I know of.

1. Belfast City Airport
2. Belfast International (Aldergrove)
3. Newtonards.

That probably lists them in order of most usefulness, and order of price! First being most useful and most expensive.

1. Belfast City. 1829m of Hard runway + instrument facilities. 1.5nm East of Belfast. Good public transport. 2005 flight guide says £9.60 per 0.5 tonnes with Min charge £25.00. I've no more uptodate info. Road software says 7km and 9 minutes to drive to Crumlin Road.

2. Belfast International (Aldergrove) km's of Hard runways, + instrument facilities. 11.5nm NW of Belfast. Regular, inexpensive public transport into the city. From memory it was about 30-40 mins into the city by public bus service. My 2005 Flight guide says £8.16 per tonne (Min charge £12. 75). I've no more uptodate info. Road software says 23km and 22 minutes to drive to Crumlin Road.

3. Newtonards 750m Hard runway. 8.5nm East of Belfast. I'm not sure on public transport from the airfield, but I don't believe it's great. Aussie Andy maybe able to advise as he was there earlier this year. I've never been there. Road software says 22km and 22 minutes to drive to Crumlin Road.

I hope that's of help!

dp

[pistongone]

Cheers Dublinpilot,
The lads are over in Indonesia at present, they are back in 2 weeks. So i have plenty of time to organize this. I am thinking Newtownards and someone from the factory will collect us from the airport. I will check pooleys on the requirements of the PTA regarding Newtonards.
Thanks for your help guys.
Piston.

[pumper_bob]

Piston,
you have to go to Newtownards if for no other reason than they are good people and they like GA. The transportation to Crumlin Road is irrelevant as they are all about 20-30 mins depending on time of day etc. ust divert your pax attention with the promise of the best NIGERIAN LAGER in the UK:p

[Darth_Bovine]

Fly to ards. There should be quite a few buses into Belfast (I can check times etc if you're interested). If you were going often enough it might work out cheaper to strike some sort of hire car deal.

Belfast City airport is not GA friendly.

Ards is my home base and is a nice, friendly airport to fly to (I would say that!!) :O

If you want any info let me know.

Cheers,
DB.

[gcolyer]

Newtonards is fine. Only £10 for a single. I used to fly in regularly until I moved to Bristol.

Nice flat level runways, 16 is bit of a bugger with the police mast right in the way but hey ho.

You should be able to get a bus from Nards to belfast no problem.

[Darth_Bovine]

<Snip from a private message- thought it might be useful to post the info in the public forum>

Hi piston,

All these details are from the website:
http://www.ulsterflyingclub.com/.

As I'm a member, I don't pay landing fees/parking directly, so I hope these are up to date. Website also has info on getting there by air. It's very straight forward and difficult to miss (airfield is on the coast directly to the north of a long body of water!)

Landing fee is £10
Over Night parking is £5 outside and £10 hangared. I'd phone to confirm availablity of hangared parking.
Avgas: £1.22 per litre. (according to the website).

If you're doing a lot of runs in and out maybe you could negotiate a landing fee deal/or some sort of limited membership??

Customs: you'll need to file a GAR for outbound and return trip (24 hours in advance IIRC). Also think you'll need to file flight plans. These are fairly straight forward..... PPR for airfield shouldn't be a problem. Just phone them up to let them know just before you leave.

The phone number is: 028 91813327
They're a nice bunch and should be able to sort you out.

Anything else I've missed? It's a really nice club. Unfortunately no eatery on the airfield at the minute as the old restaurant was burned down (along with our old club house). All has been rebuilt, but we haven't found someone to let out the other space (where a restaurant could go). Not a big problem as it's within walking distance of Newtownards town and lots of places to eat.

Cheers,
DB.

[stio]

Basic info on Belfast City here http://www.belfastcityairport.com/ but i haven't flown in there. I've been to Ards and found a friendly welcome - nice destination with scenic approach from the south.

Does anybody know the real costs of flying into Belfast City? From the website I can cope with the landing fee/parking but ground handling £60+!! is ground handling compulsory here?

[Aussie Andy]

Aussie Andy maybe able to advise as he was there earlier this year.What a cracking little airfield Newtownards is! There are plenty of runways for various wind directions, its very easy to find (at the top of the lough, and just below the highly visible Scrabo Tower (http://www.discovernorthernireland.com/product.aspx?ProductID=2995), so you can't miss it!), and best of all the service was great and the people friendly! And the approach over the sea-wall on short final (RWY34?) was buttock-clenching fun the first time, but not "challenging"... I can't advise on public transport, but would imagine taxi or rental car would be the way to go if on business. Others have given plenty of detail above.

The main downside for Newtownards airfield is that the wx is essentially sh1te as often as not in N.I. (sorry to my cousins there, no offence intended! :}) so if you are suitably qualified and current (I am the former, but not the latter!) then Belfast City is convenient for an ILS if the worst comes to the worst. But beware, last I saw Belfast City were NOTAMing that they have NO AVGAS...

Absolute no-brainer: Newtownards is the airfield you want. I look forward to my next trip to Newtownards!

Andy :ok:

[pistongone]

Thanks for all the reply's. My only worry now is that my friends will want to go, without having the 24 hr notice period, meaning a trip to Blackpool out bound and a landing at Belfast City, could end up costing more than the plane:confused: :confused: Blackpool for a PA32 must be around £40-50?
And belfast city with handling would be appx £200:{ :{ Had the same situation a while back going to Alderney from Turweston. Moments notice type of job and dropped into Southampton out and Bournemouth back. Couldnt see what giving appx £50 to each of the girls involved did for the prevention of anything:confused: let alone terrorism:cool: we all know about the land in france or you dont need to do this on a private boat arguments, but what the fcuk:} I suppose the question is why cant 'ards do the PTA stuff:confused:

[Darth_Bovine]

I suppose the question is why cant 'ards do the PTA stuff:confused:

Showing my ignorance: what's PTA? My best guess is Protection against Terrorism Act? What would it involve for example? Ards is probably too small with too little 'terrorist' traffic to justify it. :ugh:

Cheeers,
DB.

[Aussie Andy]

The PTA procedures are something you must take into account - just hassle factor really, no costs: see http://www.ulsterflyingclub.plus.com/fly.htm

Guidelines for flights to and from Newtownards from outside Northern Ireland

Legal Position

The 'Prevention of Terrorism Act' requires that all flights to & from Northern Ireland, The Isle of Mann and the Channel Islands shall take place between 'Designated Airports' unless permission has been obtained in advance from the Chief Constable of the Police Force responsible for the airport.

The normal minimum period of advance notice required is 12 hours however some constabularies (including Northern Ireland) require 24 hours notice or even more at weekends. Some RAF airfields require 7 days notice!

Newtownards Airport is NOT a designated airport and therefore advance permission must be obtained.

Additional constraints apply to helicopter flights in and out of Northern Ireland.

Remember that you must obtain permission for both ends of your flight from the relevant local Police. (In other words obtaining departure approval from Prestwick does NOT secure landing approval at Newtownards even though you told Scottish Special Branch your destination.)

Departure from Newtownards to a destination outside Northern Ireland

Contact Police Authority - Force control (028) 90650222 and request advance permission for the flight. They will require (at least) 24hrs notice

• Date and time (local) and points of proposed departure and arrival. • Aircraft type and registration

• Name, address, date of birth for Pilot and all passengers • Contact phone number

Once permission has been obtained, complete departure cards for all passengers and crew and deposit in the UFC general Office before departure. Write the aircraft registration on the back of the Pilot in Command's card.

Fill in the 'Record of Flights In and Out of NI' sheet in the lobby, indicate the number of passengers carried in the Remarks column. (e.g. +2)

Arrival at Newtownards from a destination outside Northern Ireland

Contact Police Authority - Force control (028) 90650222 and request advance permission for the flight. They will require (at least) 24hrs notice

• Date and time (local) and points of proposed departure and arrival. • Aircraft type and registration

• Name, address, date of birth for Pilot and all passengers • Contact phone number

Upon arrival at Newtownards complete arrival cards for all passengers and crew and deposit in the UFC general office. Write the aircraft registration on the back of the Pilot in Command's card.

Fill in the 'Record of Flights In and Out of NI' sheet in the lobby, indicate the number of passengers carried in the Remarks column. (e.g. +2)

Flight between a non-designated Airfield in the UK & Northern Ireland

Contact the UK airfield in advance and cheek what local procedure they have in force for obtaining permission. Some have a standard pro-forma that can he returned by FAX. Give as much notice as possible and have available the information on Pilot and Passengers as detailed above. Remember that that some airfields also require prior permission for all visiting aircraft.

[London Mil]

Are you sure it is 24hr notice for the PTA? I thought it was reduced to 12.
http://www.west-midlands.police.uk/ports-unit/legislation.asp

[Darth_Bovine]

As far as I know it's still 24 hrs for N.I. I could be wrong though. We always give 24 hrs notice though.... Simple enough, just a pain in the ar$e to have to do it the day before.

[Aussie Andy]

PSNI have their own local procedures which you must adhere to. Call UFC and they will be able to answer any questions I'm sure. In practice I didn't find it too difficult!

Andy

[pistongone]

The problem with 24hrs notice is the usual vagaries of aviation! I think its about time this situation was reviewed by the authorities, whats the general opinions of the people here? As i said before, you can just get in your Fairline, Sunseeker or whatever and go pretty much anywhere you like. The white flag was dispensed with years ago. Everyone knows 99.9% of prevention of organised crime, bombs, drugs, guns etc is all about intelligence.
I cant remember a single case where the headline stated that "due to a lucky stop and search of a light aircraft we have now arrested XXX men on suspicion of whatever". I have never even seen a customs officer at Lydd and i have made many landings there. Although Robin did tell me a van load of them turned up once and raided an arriving aircraft and i suspect that wasn't on the off chance they were not declaring a couple of bottles of Gin!

[Aussie Andy]

Sadly PG the logic of your argument will have no impact on the system, so don't even waste the energy on it mate!

The problem with 24hrs notice is the usual vagaries of aviation!In practice its no biggie: give them much more than 24hrs notice if you think you might be going, then call them nearer the time to tell them the time/date has changed and you have whatever flexibility you require. That way, their needs are met, and you get to do what you want when you want. And it you cancel, just tell them - no drama.

Andy :ok:

[Darth_Bovine]

I've had to change 'planes times/dates on a few occasions and as AA says, they're normally happy to update your GAR over the phone.

[dublinpilot]

The required notice is 12 hours, not 24.

The appropriate reference is the Terrorism Act 2000, Sch7, Section 12(3)

(3) Where an aircraft is employed on a journey to which this paragraph applies otherwise than to carry passengers for reward, the captain of the aircraft shall not permit it to call at or leave a port in Great Britain or Northern Ireland unless-

(a) the port is a designated port, or
(b) he gives at least 12 hours' notice in writing to a constable for the police area in which the port is situated (or, where the port is in Northern Ireland, to a member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary).


If you want to see the context for yourself you can see the act by clicking here. (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00011--t.htm#sch7)

So if you're planning on an early morning flight, so that you're in belfast by 9:30am, you have until 9:30pm the night before to send your fax.

This all changes if you're being paid to carry your passengers (which I'm assuming you are not). If you are being paid, then you actually need the PSNI's permission, not just notify them.

I can also confirm that I have given amendments over the phone with shorter notice, and they have been happy to accept that as being sufficient.

dp