Re-applying to NATS [Archive]

Always thinking

30th Sep 2006, 10:14

Yesterday I learned I was unsuccessfull in my stage 3 Interview :*, & as such Im not having a great weekend.

My question however is this:

Should I decide to re-apply to NATS in 12mths time, & assuming my application is successful, would I need to re-sit the entire selection process? (stages 1+2 & 3).

I put this question to the floor as Ive already had conflicting answers form 2 different "NATS HR types".

Your opinions,experiences, Etc. all appreciated.:)

shgsaint

30th Sep 2006, 11:21

This could be an interesting post especially if people have now been successful after re-applying.

I applied about 4 years ago before I went to uni and didn't get past the initial 1st stage day. Not feeling too down hearted I moved on, went to uni and here I am today with my degree.

I do plan to re-apply within the next few months and will need to brush up on my long division and fractions (this was my only downfall last time).

My opinion is that by re-applying I should hopefully show some enthusiasm and persistance. Of course I'd then need to get past all the other stages and medicals but I won't give up untill someone drags me away kicking and screaming saying I should try something else.

smellysnelly2004

30th Sep 2006, 12:47

I failed in 2005, re-applied this year and succeded. Yes, you do have to repeat the whole process but knowing what's coming makes the whole thing much simpler.This is just my opinion, but I believe that it being my 2nd application had some kind of effect on the outcome - it definately ticks the motivation box.
I'm sure you feel a bit downhearted at the moment but all I can suggest is to have a good think about how much you want the job, then decide what to do. 12 months seems like a long time but it disappeared pretty quickly for me.
Hope some of that helps
Any questions, just ask

Kirk Biddlecombe

30th Sep 2006, 13:26

I failed earlier this year (late June). Not going to go into the feedback I received but even though I was a 'near miss' I still have to retake all stages.

So I'm pretty sure all failed applicants have to do so. If you've passed the Aptitude tests the first time round it shouldn't really be a problem. As I was told "So long as you don't become complacent about them you'll be fine next time round".

Courtenay

30th Sep 2006, 22:51

Whilst at the stage 2 (out of 2) process, I chatted to a Lady from HR, we discussed the new 3 stage process, and during that conversation she informed me that in the new process you would only have to resit from the stage that you failed from, i.e. once you have passed the tests you don't need to do them again... One would imagine this is only from the new process onwards, but you never know.

Cheers,

James.

crisscar

3rd Oct 2006, 09:11

One year, to me atleast seems like an incredibly long time. I also took the exams in June but I submitted my application in March. Does the clock start from the time I submitted the application or from when they give you the results. The feedback I recieved was I did extremely well except the motivation questions. :*

And what becomes of the online application? Mine is still on the HR site. will they remove it or is will a submit button be posted next to it?

smellysnelly2004

3rd Oct 2006, 09:29

crisscar,

If you re-apply 1 year from your application date there should be no problem - which means you only have 6 months to wait, during which you can learn a mountain of facts to make sure you pass the motivation test. As to whether your application will still be there, my first application stayed online for a while but when it came to re-applying I had to start from nothing again. This was last December when I applied so things may have changed. If you're in any doubt, just give HR a call and ask direct.

Hope this helps

;)

up the tower

3rd Oct 2006, 11:44

I think it is now 1 year from the initial test day, so it will be June for you. I know when I tried to reapply the year after I submitted the application I received the following email:

Dear Up The Tower

TRAINEE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL RECRUITMENT

I am writing with reference to your recent application to become a Trainee Air Traffic Controller with the NATS.

I am sorry to have to inform you that you will not be invited for selection on this occasion as you have sat selection tests within the past 12 months. We will welcome your application in November and look forward to hearing from you then.

Please do not reply to this e-mail. If you wish to contact us please use the message centre.

Yours sincerely

Recruitment & Selection
HR Services
NATS.

Good Luck though:ok:

Conspiracy Theories

3rd Oct 2006, 20:59

I didn't get through first time either although I didn't let that sway me away from the job. I think in all honesty I didn't wait the complete 12 months although when i applied, it was still with the written application form when there was only 2 stage interviews.
I think they regard persistence as a very good motivation and I got through second time around and working hard at the moment to validate.

Keep going and I'm sure you will get through.

regards

Dances with Boffins

4th Oct 2006, 13:32

One of the managers at Hurn has picked this up and passed it on to the people who can do something about it.
Expect HR to get their story straight shortly.:ok:
DwB:cool:

MartinInTheMiddle

5th Oct 2006, 18:15

I asked this question of one of our interviewers who asked someone else who said that normally people who fail to get through have to go right back to the start and wait a year (the year is counted from date of you first took the first tests). In rare cases they might invite a candidate to repeat just the final stage but couldn't get any info on when they would apply this short-cut. My guess is that it could be used if a candidate was very borderline or just needed to sort out some personal issues.

high-hopes

9th Jan 2007, 22:18

ShuttleSixYankee

10th Jan 2007, 19:35

Out of interest...
Did you re-apply before NATS contacted you?

high-hopes

10th Jan 2007, 22:48

no.. I was going to wait the whole 12 months.

LACCATCO

11th Jan 2007, 22:40

Re: failed assessments / interviews

I failed my stage 3 interview last July.

Was intending to reapply this summer, but few days ago I was contacted by NATS to tell me that I was welcome to re-attend the interview without having to wait until 12 months past my first attempt.

Anybody else in the same situation ?

Regards

h-h

Since NATS reduced the trainee starting salary and increased target scores in the initial testing phase the number of people applying and then making it through the selection process has dropped significantly.

I know in the ops room that ATSA's that have previously applied for trainee ATCO positions are being asked to re-apply and you are not the first person I have heard asked to re-apply before the 12 month period.

As to your decision, its up to your own current circumstances, however, we are still very short of high standard trainee's and having completed the application process once you will have a head start when you do decide to apply!

Good luck! ;)

ShuttleSixYankee

12th Jan 2007, 22:41

I was turned down at the final stage interview last June, and was going to wait until the end of March until re-applying, but since reading this I have submitted my application to NATS and they have already invited me to the selection tests once more.

SHT6Y

richyinnewcastle

13th Jan 2007, 15:40

ShuttleSixYankee

13th Jan 2007, 16:51

Seems to be a lot of people getting turned down at the final stage.. a little worrying as I have my final stage interview in a couple of weeks! any ideas where you guys were going wrong? not to rub salt in the wounds or anything! any help appreciated :)

rich :)

To be honest Rich, the reason for failure in the final stage is now down to the individual. NATS split the old final stage into 2, the first of which are 2 key elements (computer tests and HR structured interview) which you must pass. In other words, with the old system, if someone had performed really well in the technical interview and/or group discussion but failed either the computer tests and/or the HR interview they would have definitely been turned down. It's one of those 'must pass' elements, similar to the initial selection tests if you like.

Not sure what the 3rd stage involves these days, though I think it'll be the group discussion, technical interview and motivational test, the latter of which I believe you must also achieve a mark which is above the NATS threshold.

I believe the reason people are turned down at this stage (aside from the 'must-pass' elements) is because they may have certain issues unsuited to being able to train as a Student Air Traffic Controller. This could be anything, it really depends where you yourself are coming from.

Best of luck!

SHT6Y

shgsaint

15th Jan 2007, 15:23

Just to add to this and keep the thread going.

I got invited to a first stage selection process day today. Just 3 days after posting the online application!

The only worry is the days are next week!!!!! :eek:

I'm pretty familiar with some ATCO stuff as I do it in the online community and have good sources of information. Real word VMat documents for example.

However some stuff i'm well rusty on. I remember last time that there was the requirement to demonstrate your mental arithmatic capability. Most stuff i'm fine on with exception to the fractions. Seeing as I havent looked at a maths book for over 8 years can someone shed some light if they (NATS) still test you on such tasks at this stage and if so can you run through how to work them out for me? I know that's cheeky but I'm really eager to get everything up to standard now and I only have a week to do it! I remember its something to do with the lowest common denominator but thats all I can remember! :O

Cheers everyone. :ok:

richyinnewcastle

15th Jan 2007, 16:48

hey shg,

I went to the tests a few weeks ago so this should be relatively fresh. I don't remember any direct maths questions like fractions.. the only maths I really remember doing at the first stage was like a/c scenarios in the motivation paper. like 2 planes so many miles apart, how long before they breach if they're going at sucha a speed etc.. so basically thats speed = distance / time, so I'd recommend you brush up on long multiplication and division if anything for them.. but in any case fractions, just in case I done them without thinking or they change the format..

http://www.aaamath.com/fra.html

internet's a wonderful place :P

Other than that, cubes, symbol changing, recognising numbers/letters in sequences, and study the booklet cover to cover and you should be fine!

let me know if there's anything else, pm if you like, a week is enough time.

rich

shgsaint

16th Jan 2007, 12:17

Thanks Rich.

It's all starting to come back to me now! I know what you mean about the S/D/T triangle. I remember clearly that's the one question I knew I got wrong 4 years ago last time I did the tests. I worked out that an aircraft travelled over xyz distance in so many minutes. But forgot that the two aircraft are heading for each other and alas forgot to half the answer!

DOH! :O

I'm sure that wasnt the sole reason why I didn't get through but it's a bit frustrating to say the least. At least I know sort of what to expect this time.

Like you say a week should be fine for me to brush up everything.

Cheers mate.

SHG.

richyinnewcastle

16th Jan 2007, 14:54

No worries.. I was in the same boat as you actually, a rejection before uni, and now I'm trying again now..

One thing I would probably say is just that my general approach to the tests this time was a bit better.. I think I naively thought 3 years ago that I had to get through all of them.. but this time I worked at a fast pace but made sure I was definitely getting them right, especially when it came to the cubes and the symbol games!

Having talked to some people after, it seemed they had absolutely rattled through them, so I was a bit worried at first.. but sure enough it went ok.. so, yer, speed and accuracy, but certainly accuracy more than anything perhaps?? makes sense I suppose!

just wait for stage 2, the tests were really good I thought!!

rich

shgsaint

16th Jan 2007, 15:39

Cheers Rich.

I'll keep plugging away this week at the weaknesses. As you say accuracy is the key. Think i'll have to eat plenty of brain food Sunday night!

I'll keep my head focused on this stage at the mo! Don't even want to tempt fate about getting through to the next stage. Still if I don't this time theres always a next time.

Cheers mate.

SHG.

dtmpower

17th Jan 2007, 12:22

ShuttleSixYankee

17th Jan 2007, 12:58

I spoke to NATS HR today, and two points have come to light.

1. they have removed th age limit for applying.

2. they are "discussing" removing the rule regarding the number of attempts you can apply.

Does anyone know anymore about these changes ? I guess it's due to the reduced starting pay and less people making the grade at the college

Interesting... that's all I can say. I'm sure most potential employees would welcome changes similar to the ones you have mentioned.
My only problem with that is inconsistency. NATS claim to be putting safety as a top priority by taking on only those who are deemed suitable to undergo ATCO training, which in the past has proved to have been a strict process.
The changes you have outlined would suggest NATS have cottoned on to the fact that there have been fewer applicants since the reduction in trainee pay, and have thus attempted to allow potential applicants a greater opportunity to apply. NATS contacting applicants to re-attend a failed interview without the applicant re-applying is also now not unheard of.

Just my thoughts...

SHT6Y

Gonzo

17th Jan 2007, 13:29

1) Abolishing the upper age limit was due to the change in age discrimination legislation (in October I believe).

2) Firstly, there has not been a reduction in numbers of applicants since the reduction in trainee pay. In fact, they've increased dramatically. I believe there were a total of approximately 3500 applications received in the whole of 2005. There were approximately 4000 applications in the first three months of 2006, after the change in pay was announced.

I would suggest that one reason why the number of re-applications permitted is being discussed is the fact that the upper age limit has been abolished. If one can apply at any age, is it fair to restrict to three attempts?

NATS claim to be putting safety as a top priority by taking on only those who are deemed suitable to undergo ATCO training, which in the past has proved to have been a strict process.And speaking as one who is involved in all stages of recruitment and training, that process is still strict. In fact, many stages are becoming more so.

The theory behind inviting those 'marginals' back for a final go at interview was that it would be a waste of time and resource to subject them to all stages of the process again. Of the 'marginals' identified from all failed applications, less than 5% of them were actually invited to retake the final interview.

ShuttleSixYankee

17th Jan 2007, 19:37

I would suggest that one reason why the number of re-applications permitted is being discussed is the fact that the upper age limit has been abolished. If one can apply at any age, is it fair to restrict to three attempts?
And speaking as one who is involved in all stages of recruitment and training, that process is still strict. In fact, many stages are becoming more so.
The theory behind inviting those 'marginals' back for a final go at interview was that it would be a waste of time and resource to subject them to all stages of the process again. Of the 'marginals' identified from all failed applications, less than 5% of them were actually invited to retake the final interview.

Fair enough. Naturally it does appear slightly different from the outside, but if the points you have outlined are true, then I applaud the HR system.

SHT6Y

JIMBAMBOON

26th Jan 2007, 08:18

Just continuing the thread, i applied late 2005 and failed the first stage which i was really surprised at. Subsequently i picked myself up worked for a year, re-applied and got through all the stages. Just received my class 1 through the post this morning and am set for the March start at the college. One thing that really frustrated me was NATS policy on not giving feedback after the tests, but i believe that this has changed since i first applied.:rolleyes: