NEWCASTLE - 4 [Archive] - Page 2

ncleflights

21st Nov 2006, 20:33

I would have to agree with transwede on this one my money is on Jet2. I would assume ncle airport has known for some time that BA were about to axe this route and this may be why Jet 2 have not released their Amsterdam flights for SO7 because the aircraft is going to be used on a NCL to LGW route.

I also agree with the comment on props, I actually prefer the prop operation to Belfast City than the jet service to Belfast International. The Q400 used on this route is very comfortable, more so in my opinion than the 737s going into International. The Q400s used by FLYBE also allow routes to be developed that a 737 would not which all benefit the region an the airport.

Currock Base

21st Nov 2006, 21:13

The discussion regarding NCL - LGW is an interesting one. Please remember there isn't a direct link between between passenger numbers and money, Airlines need yield. Someone mentioned LGW used to have 6 rotations of RJ100, it did and it lost more money then. For BA the yield from NCL will be Heathrow.

Someone mentioned ABZ - this isn't a fair comparison. The oil industry will support the route through corporate deals and will want the connection to Houston. Until Bermuda II is replaced by open skies (when the IAH will move to LHR so it connects with Lagos and Moscow etc) the ABZ-LGW will be safe.

GW76

21st Nov 2006, 21:26

EK DXB rumour gathering pace....watch this space:eek:

NCL-06

21st Nov 2006, 22:41

Ops Guy

21st Nov 2006, 23:45

NCL 06

This has already been discussed earlier. The NCL - DXB will commence next September as you have said. It looks like its refuring to other routes that Emirates are going to operate, not from NCL unfortunately. We can always hope!!

SWBKCB

22nd Nov 2006, 07:19

Read somewhere that B A will continue with NCL-LHR FOR THE TIME BEING, dont like the sound of that!!!

Quote from last nights Newcastle Evening Chronicle piece about the LGW cuts:

"It (BA) is considering adding to or increasing the size of the planes it flies on the six daily return flights between Newcastle and Heathrow."

hmm, time will tell...

heinzmanm

22nd Nov 2006, 07:27

Jet2 to take over NCL-LGW route on March 25th '07 flying 3 times daily - taken just now from BBC News website
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/6171010.stm

fl dutchman

22nd Nov 2006, 08:53

heinzmanm

GREAT NEWS

HH6702

22nd Nov 2006, 09:23

BE to put routes on sale this friday?

transwede

22nd Nov 2006, 09:36

Any idea of times for new Jet2 service to LGW? Take it there will be a morning, evening and midday flights - that way suits business and leisure pax!

Every other aviation forum discussing EK DXB service, could it possibly be true, though numerous comments have dissed the service before it has even started!! Would be a jewel in NCL's route structure.:D

BE routes - well lets wait and see!!! Lets hope for some people, any new movements are not on a prop aircraft?!;)

Ops Guy

22nd Nov 2006, 11:48

SWBKCB [QUOTE]It (BA) is considering adding to or increasing the size of the planes it flies on the six daily return flights between Newcastle and Heathrow."

Does this mean we could see a return of BA operating B757 or A321 on this route???

LGWAlan

22nd Nov 2006, 12:20

Any idea of times for new Jet2 service to LGW? Take it there will be a morning, evening and midday flights - that way suits business and leisure pax!

0640, 1015 and 1750 ex NCL Mon-Fri
0640 Sat
1750 Sun

skyman771

22nd Nov 2006, 12:26

Ops Guy

Hadn't really appreciated their total withdrawal from the route in any event. What are BA's long term plans as regards the retention of their 757's ?

skyman771

22nd Nov 2006, 16:49

As the dust settles, & not one shred of independent evidence supporting this 'German speaking anonymous Emirates employee' then what we have is the classic growth in debate on various forums fueling what is actually still an unsupported rumour. I certainly would not put my money on this as yet as there is as far as I'm aware no independent evidence.

nclairportfan

22nd Nov 2006, 17:57

LS

Good news about Jet2 doing LGW - at least the route is safe and Jet2 are onto a winner for pax numbers etc! How will this affect aircraft for next summer? Will LS base an additional aircraft or reduce frequencies on other services?

Am still surprised EZY didn't jump on this one!

BE

In term of the proposed BE announcement does anyone know more in terms of destinations and frequencies?

ncleflights

22nd Nov 2006, 23:30

Great news regarding Jet2 to LGW, personally pleased its them and not the easy lot.

On the subject of loco operations from Newcastle its interesting to note that we have had a load of new routes from Jet2, one from Ryanair and the probably a few from FLYBE in 2006 and from easyjet a reduction of three routes (Berlin, Nice and Budapest). It seems strange that other low cost operators are expanding routes but easyjet are reducing the number of routes from NCL. Does anybody else have concerns that another EMA situation is on the cards where they did a similar thing then started to reduce the number of based aircraft.

On the whole EK debate still a bit doubtful on this one, I can't see where the passenger numbers are in the NE, particularly for the frequencies and aircraft type that have been mentioned.

With regards to New York, as its December next week and we have had no announcement about a service provider I think its safe to say that 2007 will be another year without a direct route from NCL to JFK/EWK. Newcastle airport management really need to get their act together on trying to get an airline in on this route.

CentreFix25

23rd Nov 2006, 07:11

I dont think it is a case of the airport getting their 'act together', theyve sold the route really well. As stated many times previously AA's actions were a bit of a kick in the nuts for the airport because it would have made any other potential operator think 'hang on - why have they pulled the route when theyve been selling seats for a few months'. The obvious conclustion to draw is seats were not selling as well as promised, especially as AA are regulary flying 757s across the pond into Manchester. I can never understand why these flights have to be daily anyway, NY daily wont work same with EK (daily A330? believe it when i see it).

coasting

23rd Nov 2006, 07:53

The advanced bookings on AA flights from NCL came nowhere near what they required for the route to go ahead. Result, the flight was terminated before it started.
Continental may have been a better option, but I think not. Perhaps 3 or 4 days a week another option as Centrefix said, but the bottom line is Newcastle will not be able to generate enough of its own traffic for a daily flight to this destination, especially as it relies heavily on Scottish pax, who now have a lot of options for the USA, from both EDI and GLA.

skyman771

23rd Nov 2006, 08:01

Got to agree with CentreFix25, though AA were never too forthright as to the reason, it is quite possible that pax uptake was a major influence which also goes someway to explain the lack of interest from other US carriers, who doubtless keep a close eye on the actions of their competitors and are also influenced by such actions. IF the finger is to be pointed at management it's hardly for their efforts in attempting to attact carriers / routes, however possibly questions should be aimed more in the direction of the development strategy of the whole airport infrastrcuture.

martinidoc

23rd Nov 2006, 08:41

It has been suggested that the NCL-LGW route made a loss, the question must be why? The same argument was used when BA ditched Bristol Birmingham, Belfast, Aberdeen, Southampton, Plymouth, Paris, having agressively taken acquired these routes, and taken over or merged Dan, Brymon, Citiflyer, and driven competitors like Gill out of the market. Since losing all these routes, Easy, Eastern, BE, etc seem to have made them pay and increased the frequency, and passenger loads and even punctuality. Why is it that these carriers can make it pay when BA cannot?

transwede

23rd Nov 2006, 09:26

I think the reason BA could not make money on them was that they operate on a higher cost base than the carriers which currently operate the routes, i.e the small independant airlines and the locos. Also BA's (nee Brymons) old routes to BRS and ABZ did make money but I think it was the bigger picture as to why they closed regional ops from NCL. It is a shame that the only flag carrier operated route is that to LHR, but atleast other airlines generally take over abandoned services. As regards to bigger aircraft on the LHR run, what else could they use apart from 757/767 equipment, as are A321 a/c not based at T4?

I agree on the NYC front. Whilst it is a shame that there is no link as yet, I do believe it will not happen in 2007. The AA situation will have put potential operators off and the airport have a hard task to attract an alternative operator. The airport have done an excellent job at attracting airlines and new routes, so I don't think they can be blamed for no NYC route. Incidentally, NCL seemed to be very popular at Routes2006 conference in DXB, yet nothing seems to have materialised from it?

NCL has a fairly good mix of routes, though the number of loco operators seems to be higher than full service scheduled operators, in terms of number of flights offered. Good or bad thing - I suppose advantages and disadvantages to both.

Full Service - BA, KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, SN Brussels, Eastern, Aer Lingus, Wideroe.
Loco - Jet2, Easyjet, Ryanair, Flybe, HapagLLoyd

lukeylad

23rd Nov 2006, 09:40

IS it true that few years ago BA would some times send a 767 on the NCL-LHR RUN??

fl dutchman

23rd Nov 2006, 10:05

IS it true that few years ago BA would some times send a 767 on the NCL-LHR RUN??

Yes. I think it still happens very occasionally.
I realise slots may be the problem, but from a passener point of view the LHR route would benefit from better timings and an extra daily rotation rather than larger aircraft on the route.
When they had 7 daily rotations last summer and winter the timings were much more convenient for business and leisure passengers. It was also much better for connections at LHR. Since it has reverted to 6 obviously the passenger nos have dropped quite a bit. so the demand is there in numbers, dont know about the yields though.

lukeylad

23rd Nov 2006, 15:40

Flyjet 767 in again today operating the ARRECIFE flight.

lukeylad

23rd Nov 2006, 15:42

Yes. I think it still happens very occasionally.
I realise slots may be the problem, but from a passener point of view the LHR route would benefit from better timings and an extra daily rotation rather than larger aircraft on the route.
When they had 7 daily rotations last summer and winter the timings were much more convenient for business and leisure passengers. It was also much better for connections at LHR. Since it has reverted to 6 obviously the passenger nos have dropped quite a bit. so the demand is there in numbers, dont know about the yields though.

I do belive there is the odd A321 on the LHR run in the winter.

crewboi83

23rd Nov 2006, 16:25

heard a rumour that the jet2 murcia today did a full emergency landing, can anyone shed any light?

transwede

23rd Nov 2006, 19:37

I see Jet2 have retimed MJV flights and now a/c starts in NCL. Still a very confusing programme, together with AMS, BGO and TFS still not on sale.

Flyjets EC will operate TFS tomorrow as well, then 757 takes over again for good, as by the FJE thread the 767 is going for refit and EA is to do longhaul, so must leave NCL with EB.

crewboi83

23rd Nov 2006, 20:59

have a rough copy of the programme for ncl, a bit mixed up at mo with the 757 doing the daily murcia at 1255, and a 757 down to do a few PMIs a week at 1015ish, and a AGP during the week. so dont know whats going on there as only 1 757 planned. noticed the mjv also gone to 7 weekly as it was only 6 weekly
737 number 3 is a bit quiet at mo so maybe pmi and agp are going to go on that, cant see where tfs fits in just yet
also jet2 booking system states that NCL LGW to be op by a 146-300, it was doing the LGWs in man this summer. So what we having? 3x 737 1x146 1x757?

Currock Base

23rd Nov 2006, 21:08

I think you may be getting too hopeful with more LHR capacity. My theory is using A320 instead of A319 on services giving 24 more seats. Operationally this is really easy to do. We will know more when post IATA conference Summer schedule is released in December.

757s haven't been scheduled regularly from LHR for a while. Once LHR T5 opens, the 757s will be based over at T3 for flights to Spain and Italy. Before T5 there may be a chance, but remember the LHR gate at NCL with the airbridge cannot accomodate a 757 since the stands were remarked. It would need to use the current "LGW" gate which isn't ideal. The reason for very rare BA767 visits is that they are a common crew fleet with 757. So if 757 crews are rostered on a NCL and the 757 goes tech, it is possible the only spare may be a 767. Sometimes this happens on the day and very rarely is planned earlier due to maintenance schedules.

Regarding A321, they are based at T4 and may be a possibility to NCL once T5 opens. The visits last year we due to maintenance. All BA Airbuses have heavy maintence as GLA. So once in a while they need to get from LHR. One way to do this was to schedule them on Domestic flights which ended in GLA to get them there and started in GLA to get them back to LHR. As it happened the aircraft worked a full day of domestic services as part of this clever positioning which resulted in visits to both MAN and NCL. This was planned well in advance, and isn't this winter...

CB

_ShIfTy_

23rd Nov 2006, 22:08

heard a rumour that the jet2 murcia today did a full emergency landing, can anyone shed any light?

Your right it did. I heard pax were on oxygen when it landed.

BIG E

24th Nov 2006, 16:05

For info easyjet S07 flights for uk regionals go on sale this monday,better get in there quick

nclairportfan

24th Nov 2006, 19:32

Are NCE, BUD and SXF returning?

transwede

25th Nov 2006, 09:03

Jet2's plans seem to be changing by the minute. According to the 'Jet2' thread 2 757 and 2 737 are to be based, alongside 146 for the LGW runs. However, last plans were for 1 757 and 3 737, which is not actually enough for the current schedule.

Take a monday for example:

A/C 1 - 0640/0945 LGW
1015/1315 LGW
A/C 2 - 1010/1635 KRK
A/C 3 - 1030/1710 PMI
A/C 4 - 1255/1935 MJV

Still leaves PSA 1030/1710, ORK 1630/1930 - so maybe 5 based aircraft is happening, with the addition of 146 for the new LGW route?

nclairportfan

25th Nov 2006, 11:07

LS

They could plan to re-time some flights?!?! Not sure!

It would appear the 146 is going to do LGW which is a tad odd and probably means they will stop their MAN-LGW route. Could we see a frequency increase? It does look like sales are going quite well on a route that has only been open for bookings for a couple of days and doesn't start til March.

If we do get more LS aircraft based would this mean opening any new routes? I wonder if they're waiting for EZY to release their summer schedule to see if SXF will make a return? It was certainly carrying enough pax for it to be sustainable, even if it is not daily but 4-5 per week.

EZY

I doubt we're going to see any new EZY destinations for a while. They certainly seem to have missed the boat on LGW and I am not sure they would want to compete. Not entirely sure what is going on with them but it does appear their taxes/charges on most routes have almost doubled lately! Doesn't actually make them that cheap!

I just hope we keep the SXF route one way or another - it's popular with both Brits and Germans alike!

BE
I see there is still no news on BE and those rumoured destinations though most of their summer 07 schedule appears not to be out yet so anything is possible. Would love them to start CPH - it's a big missing link for NCL.

Britannia

25th Nov 2006, 12:37

also jet2 booking system states that NCL LGW to be op by a 146-300

Just had a look at the booking system, can't see any aircraft types?

crewboi83

25th Nov 2006, 13:02

Just had a look at the booking system, can't see any aircraft types?
Are you just checkin out the website though?
i found out what was operating because i have access to the airkiosk system they use which requires log ins etc.

think a lot of retiming needs to be done cos at the moment there are a lot of flights going out about 10ish with not enough aircraft

ncleflights

25th Nov 2006, 15:14

I think nclairportfan is correct I cant see easyjet adding any new routes out of newcastle for a while. They have reduced the number of routes from Newcastle by 3 this year and last year pulled plans to base an additional aircraft at Newcastle at the last minute. Originally this aircraft was to arrive in November 06.

On the subject of my earlier comment on the airport management not getting their act together on the New York route, I think its a valid comment remember that two airlines were interested in this route AA and Continental but the latter could not start operations until summer 07 so the airport went with AA. This decision proved an error, its worth remembering that Continental have a proven track record operating from smaller European airports AA do not, mainly concentrating on larger airports. Newcastle is now in the position where CO are no longer interested in flying to NCL, a recent fact put out from their Houston HQ.

On the Jet2 front I would imagine at least one extra route, if nothing else to keep the 146 busy in the afternoon as it looks to be sitting around alot. As no Amsterdam SO7 has been announced, does anyonw know if this has been pulled as the jet 2 737 aircraft are already well used and I cant see where the spare capacity is for Amsterdam. Does anyone out their know?

Ops Guy

25th Nov 2006, 22:22

ncleflights [QUOTE] On the subject of my earlier comment on the airport management not getting their act together on the New York route, I think its a valid comment.

Come on, give these guys a break!! I am sure the management are busting a gut attempting to attract an airline to operate the NCL - New York route. This would be a very lucrative route for the Airport, so to say that they aren't trying to attract an airline to operate the route is ludicrous.

When AA pulled the route last year the Airport did say that it would be "actively looking for another airline to operate the route" and this is obviously going to take time (more time than previously anticipated).

This week the NCL thread has been full of rumour of the NCL - DXB route kicking off Sept 07. Everyone knows that the management have been in close talks with Emirates so this is likely to turn out to be true. (airbridge on stand 9 is getting built for someone)

This week BA pulled the LGW route and within 2 days they announced another airline to operate the route!!!

With all the extra Jet 2 routes that have recently been announced and additional based aircraft for next summer. Extra routes with Ryanair and dont forget FlyBe said they would be making a massive announcement about additional routes from NCL + extra routes from Thomson Fly.

So when you take the blinkers off and look at the bigger picture it would appear that the management at NCL have in fact got their act together in genrerating route development from NCL and are doing a good job.

As I said earlier it's obvoiusly going to take a bit longer than previously anticipated in attracting a carrier to operate to NCL from NYC. The route will eventually come we just need to be patient and give it maybe a another 12 months. After this time, and we still have no NYC route then jump on the management.

And before everyone jumps on me, NO i'm not management and certainly no :mad: licker!!:D

crewboy123

25th Nov 2006, 22:55

hey, does anyone know what thomsonfly are basing next summer at ncl.. ive heard 1 733, 1 752, 1 762! anyone know?

HH6702

26th Nov 2006, 10:06

I've heard that jet2 were looking to baes 6 aircraft in total. more routes cuming to fill the gaps. they will wait for easyjet to go on sale 1st then add there routes

virginblue

26th Nov 2006, 10:31

on another popular aviation forum they are claiming that NCL to DXB will be announced soon, due to commence daily from september 2007 using A330-200 aircraft. They also claim that Toronto, sao paulo, Houston and Venice are to be announced aswell

I think we need to be aware that these are all not independent sources. It all started on a German forum, then made its way to PPRUNE and then onwards to other forums. It all boils down to an information posted by a German Emirates employee (whom I have get to known to be extremely reliable, hence my post here).

Same, by the way, with the Easyjet EDI-MUC information I posted the other week. Within days, you found this in various forums and even in some newspapers...

crewboi83

26th Nov 2006, 11:15

i had heard that jet2 wanted big expansion at newc, it was ment to be the 3rd biggest base. not sure where the xtra aircraft are going to come from though. i know that we now have 9 757s for summer and 3 extra 737s will join the fleet soon, but had heard they where finding trouble sourcing decent 737-300s.... maybe thats where the 737-400 rumour started.

transwede

26th Nov 2006, 14:35

Thomsonfly's programme and a/c basing remains the same as this year......so far. 2 757 and 1 737 a/c (possibly an -800?).

ncleflights

26th Nov 2006, 17:52

[quote=Ops Guy;2986008]ncleflights [QUOTE]

"Come on, give these guys a break!! I am sure the management are busting a gut attempting to attract an airline to operate the NCL - New York route. This would be a very lucrative route for the Airport, so to say that they aren't trying to attract an airline to operate the route is ludicrous."

Sorry I still stand by my comment, its a fact that they made a mistake if they had gone for Continental instaead of AA we would have had the route operating from next summer, albeit a year later than AA planned. Who are we meant to blame for this one ncle management after all made the decision.

My comment never criticised that management at the airport about the other airlines that they have brought to ncle but anyone with any business sense must recognise that they made a mistake on the New York front. Continental were the airline with the proven track record operating from smaller UK airports (Belfast, Bristol, Birmingham, Edinburgh). Who exactly are they going to bring in both Continental and Delta have confirmed that they have no plans for a Newcastle route in any of their business plans for the next two years. Who therefore are they busting a gut with to bring in?

skyman771

26th Nov 2006, 20:06

..Who therefore are they busting a gut with to bring in?
Well I certainly hope it is not GSM with an infrequent service & an Irish stopover in 'Knock' ? as is being mooted for their LPL - NYC :yuk: ....Suppose they must see that as a better solution for revenue generation than somehow linking in MME :};)

ncleflights

26th Nov 2006, 22:06

skyman771

couldn't agree more skyman771, GSM Atlantic schedule seems to change on a weekly basis, first it was via St Johns now its Knock. I don't think we will see any increase in their long haul aspirations for a while.

fl dutchman

27th Nov 2006, 11:32

New routes for summer 2007 Newcastle to Krakow and Mahon. Both in competition with Jet 2.
Krakow 4x weekly, Mahon I think 2 x weekly?.

BIG E

27th Nov 2006, 12:20

Don't think there will be enough demand for 2 services to KRK...

Sanjo

27th Nov 2006, 14:04

EZY
I doubt we're going to see any new EZY destinations for a while. They certainly seem to have missed the boat on LGW and I am not sure they would want to compete. Not entirely sure what is going on with them but it does appear their taxes/charges on most routes have almost doubled lately! Doesn't actually make them that cheap!
I just hope we keep the SXF route one way or another - it's popular with both Brits and Germans alike!

easyJet still flies 5 times day from NCL to STN!!! surely that is a much better product than 2 or 3 a day.

Also, your comment about how "easyJet doesnt want to compete" is probably gone with the wind, following their 2 new routes that happen to be Jet2 head to heads.

Very keen to see what days their 4 x week to KRK will be operating, compared to the 2 x week service Jet2 has got.