Swissair merger?

[N380UA]

Swissair to merge with Crossair. Where as Crossair will take all short and intermediate haul flights on ex- Swissair A320 fleet and Swissair will take all long haul flights on A330 and A340.
Pilot salary to be reduced to Crossair level.
New name to be Swiss Airlines as it was 50 years ago.
Can anyone confirm on that?

[pdashley]

From a recently released SR statement.

"Swissair, Switzerland's struggling national airline , is to cut its long-haul fleet by a quarter and merge its short haul operations with Crossair, its low-cost sister company, in a bid to stave off bankruptcy.

The new airline will build on Crossair's approach of providing a high quality product whilst implementing a 'significantly lower cost model' than Swissair.
It will focus primarily on European point-to-point premium traffic whilst retaining and enhancing service on profitable long haul routes.
Swissair will continue to operate long-haul routes to parts of Asia where it is already a strong carrier as well as the Middle East and Africa. It will also continue to serve key destinations in North America relevant to the Swiss business community.
Swissair intends to reduce its transfer traffic from 60 per cent to less than 40 per cent by 2004 at the latest. "

[Van Goff]

Does anybody know if this will affect Flightline's wet leasing operation for Swissair?

[N380UA]

No mentions on Flightline as of yet I'm afraid.

[springbok449]

Interesting to hear this, if Swissair has to come down to Crossair salaries then I am sure the Swissair pilots will have something to say about it as these I understand are VERY different.

[gofer]

Suggest 2 things - firstly that it is unlikely that much beyond the actual press statements is actually clear to many and that secondly it is a case of pure survival that is key here. It very much depends on what André Dosé really puts through.

Retrenching would probably take the +150 aircraft to the around the 130 mark especially if the scheduling would improve. A lot of Swissair's comfortable administration should perhaps have been slimmed anyway a time ago, with a reorg as well .... but non flying heads cost overheads that few can afford.

Sources for info - References: (SR's Press statement, FT News)
http://www.sairgroup.com/apps/media/press/index.ht ml?language=e# (http://www.sairgroup.com/apps/media/press/index.html?language=e#)

http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3DVM910SC&live=true&useoverridetemplate=ZZZ99ZVV70C &tagid=FTDO9DHMZJC (http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3DVM910SC&live=true&useoverridetemplate=ZZZ99ZVV70C& tagid)

SR is refleeting to A330/340's and it is an ideal time to realign. LX is ousting the MD80's for A320's anyway and 319/20/21 Crew are or can be expected to be available worldwide. Also LX has proven to be a master at finding, just enough permanent and temporary crew over that last 20+ years to keep schedules.

Switzerland doesn't have much of a solid unemployment logic either, so I guess SR pilots who are addictied to cream, may well have to learn to accept milk or go without.

[ 24 September 2001: Message edited by: gofer ]

[ 24 September 2001: Message edited by: gofer ]

[fly4fud]

N380UA, your info source is quite fast, but not that precise :cool:

Yes, all SR & LX staff got a message from management this morning telling them quote:
- "Swissair and Crossair will be amalgamated under the new name of Swiss Air Lines", but still keeping the SR & LX companies identities separate :rolleyes:
Details of how they will manage this have not been released yet.
- Management (with the exception of flight ops) of both will also be "amalgamated" and the excecutive board reduced.
Fleets will be harmonised and substantially reduced in size over the next four years.
- Utilisation of Zurich, Basel and Geneva Airports will be optimised.
- Cutback in staff will also be required.

Wish all concerned people my best wishes for the future. Please observe that the "Fasten Seat Belt" sign is on, thank you
:D

[DCS99]

Van Goff - maybe not good news. Both ZRH-TRN and ZRH-MAN currently show as operated by Crossair from 31Mar02 on the GDS reservations systems. Up till then it's Flightline. I haven't tried swissair.com - good luck.

[kuzzin]

Say BYE BYE Recruitment for a long while...!!!!..? :(

[gofer]

Extracted from today's Basler Zeitung


Erschienen am: 26.09.2001
Notfallszenario mit Investoren für Crossair

Für die Crossair steht eine Investorengruppe bereit für den Fall, dass Swissair zahlungsunfähig werden sollte. Das könnte schon am Wochenende der Fall sein, wenn kein Finanzpaket zustande kommt.


Which for us Anglosaxon Speakers basically indicates that CROSSAIR, which is 70+% owned by Swissair, has organised itself to have a group of private individuals and companies to take over Swissair's holding if needed.

Bravo - Moritz Sutter, who is "only" the founder and now president of Crossair according to the article, is fighting to the end - Hope you make it Moritz, count me in for a few ex. Swissair shares.

[renegator]

well at least one bit of positive news in that lx statement.

still it´s hard to believe that the restructuring approach published by corti on monday is more than a paper solution. those two companies have always been like fire and water..
now we know that sr´s debt is around SFR 17bn which is roughly US$ 10bn.(!), so the consequences for sn and especially german ltu and the italian carriers (is that link still existing?) might be hard. lx might have the best cards in that environement.

what do you think? will there be a new swissair? and what about the others?

hoping for infos & comments brgds, silversurfer

[fly4fud]

Very interesting times ahead...

Swissair Group will now most probably declared bankrupt. This should facilitate "negotiations" with SR pilots, get rid of the evermoreloosingmoney Sabena and LTU. New Swissair Air Lines will then be able to negotiate new contracts with all pilots and get rid of its liabilities :D

Looking forward to the fun :cool:

[lostinBRU]

Van Goff.......

Yes, but probably not before the current contract ends....... Spring 02 I believe.

But then again, that was the situation yesterday.............

Flightline is an ad-hoc company and is always looking for new business.

[springbok449]

Spoke with a Swissair pilot the other day in doctors waiting room in GVA, and he said that they will fight hard for what they have, and if they lose that he would leave the industry to go into the economics industry!?
Anyway I hope that no jobs will be lossed.

[Ace Rimmer]

Hmmm, well I was going to run the Xair Swiis air thing as the cover story on the Oct Rimmer News until I was tipped a wink indirectly from the office of a certain goalkeeper and told don't do it something's afoot. Could it be that the Basler Zeitung report has much behind it?

[fly4fud]

Well the situation looks more desperate by the day.
Financial quote "The company, which is desperately seeking a SFr3bn cash injection through a public/private sector rescue plan, is the most heavily indebted of all the European airlines"

The scenario would be to declare the airline (Group) bankrupt. Create a New Swiss Air Lines, and renegotiate contract with everybody :p Those who won't like the terms will of course have to find another way of living :eek:
Don't think there will be many redudancies though. Old pilots on early retirement, freelance freed (!), and leased ones given back.

The "old" Swissair Group would have no more money and could'nt subsidize neither LTU nor Sabena.

Just as a matter of interest, Sabena, AOM, Air Littoral, LTU, etc, what have you done with the astounding sums that the Swissair Group has given to you these last years :confused: :confused: :confused:

[renegator]

Flyforfud, it is indeed unbelievable where all the money went to. However your questions regarding the German situation points partly in the wrong direction. The swiss, or better Brugissers megalomania led to catastrophic investments, but the impact of swiss management onto those carriers made it even worse. With warp speed to the ground. Will there be life after SR? Hope so, desperately hoping for good news, but clouds are gone very dark, not only in Switzerland or Belgium.

:rolleyes: silversurfer

[jumbolina]

Silversurfer,
your comment on ltu after fly4fud's posting goes a long way for Sabena too, just replace Brugisser for Reutlinger...there are always two sides to the story.
Although I'm not on strike (see other thread), I do agree with SOME of the BeCA comments on the mismanagement forced upong SN by SR.
Let me put it this way: SN, LTU, AOM etc are not responsible for SR's situation, nor vice versa, but both have a great infuence on it!

time to sharpen the pencil

[renegator]

jumbolina,
couldn´t agree more to your statement. It shows some good understanding of those situations not to blame one side of the fence.

I´m afraid the GUV might be right about the strike´s impact though. We will see clearer then. Future of almost all airlines in Belgium at stake, any news concerning Sobelair and German Preussag group?

Guv, I though the LTU payment was due in december?

Thanks, and good luck to you Jumbolina.
Silversurfer

[GEENY]

They should hold the board meetings abroad,the Swiss are well armed individuals,territorial army and that..

[Hooking Fell]

Situation worsening by the day.

Swiss print media (e.g. Tages Anzeiger) reporting today (29 Sep) that employees of Swissair and group companies have begun a run on the Company's in-house financial institution, withdrawing their balances on their personal accounts there.

As a result, suppliers to Swissair are increasingly demanding COD, and October salaries are reported to be in danger. :mad:

[Few Cloudy]

Well my small savings are still in there. Got some shares too - they are way down now -however someone has to give some encouragement to the brave Corti, so I'll hang in there and go with the ship if needs be....

Shame Corti didn't get his post earlier - a real Mafia shooter and a good man.

PS Moritz Suter ain't involved in Crossair these days.

[gofer]

Ace,

It was roumoured in Jan/Feb in EAP, in the crew rooms and corridors that Moritz was on to something big this year and that it lookes StRikingly local. Take over Mum's Europe and a little more if it was available, get some of the stock out of Mum's paws, re-divy up the Balair logic, hopefully getting the Boings swapped for Buses - and get the seat capacity imposed on LX by SR totally lifted.

Now when he saw the real mess, in March I think it was, it was just too bad to try and sort it himself, so he started working from behind the stage. Sep 11 only accelerates the mess, the problem now is can SR keep the long haul moving and pay fuel, leases and salaries ? Sep was just OK, the treadmill suggests that Oct is touch and go or stall. Nov in the lap of the Gods and the Swiss Parlamentary Gnomes. Odd on Christmas and operating 1:1 (13 month as per contract for some, probability for now of about 0.5 - hopefully climbing, but not a given).

Pray hard guys, it may not help but it doesn't hurt.

[springbok449]

Fly4fud, a thought regarding your question to Sabena, I would imagine that quite a bit of that money was invested into changing a good fleet of 73s for Airbus and the training costs involved in imposing something like that.

[gofer]

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2001/09/30/cnswiss30.xml :eek: :mad: :eek:

[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: gofer ]

[Few Cloudy]

Yep. That is not a bad summing up - though I figure that without the Bin Laden attacks, things would have still deteriorated this month.

It must really hurt, to have to give Sabena 200m Francs, while the pilots are on strike. I reckon they would have good grounds not to do so but then immediately the remaining credibility would be gone.

[Eurobrit]

Fly4FUD... you seem to have an opinion on every topic in this forum! You must have very little else to do.
Being such a knowledgable fellow, i am sure you can explain to me why the first ever payment to LTU was made on the 9th of August THIS YEAR ?
Where did the LTU fleet of 34 aircraft go ?
Where did the payments for them go ?
I believe we are talking about approx 1 Bn Euros...

Maybe somebody should cut your wings..

[The Guvnor]

With SR facing bankruptcy tomorrow, UBS and Credit Suisse announced earlier today (Sunday 30/09) that they are providing facilities to SR amounting to one billion Swiss Francs.

However, they will be cancelling future aircraft orders (including the A340-600s slated to replace the MD11s) and parking a number of A320 family aircraft.

For LTU, this means that a stay of execution can be avoided - with the same for Sabena on the condition that BeCA doesn't push the patience of both SR and the Belgian Government too far.

[Hooking Fell]

And to think that only about six months ago, Credit Suisse fired one of their analysts for predicting that SAir Group were facing a loss of CHF 0.5 billion.

It sounds like a bad joke today, but the background was that in those days, the incestuous Swiss corporate landscape had produced a board at SAir Group that included Credit Suisse boss Lukas Mühlemann, one of the most notorious and prolific collectors of Swiss board seats. This a$$hole could obviously not live with the fact that one of his in-house analysts knew more about SAir Group than its own board (or more than its own board were prepared to admit to).

The effect of all this was that Credit Suisse were still recommending "BUY" on SAir Group stock at a time when CS-Mühlemann would have known the airline and its associated companies were headed for the scrap heap.

So much for Swiss banking ethics. And you can forget about their stock exchange watchdog, too :mad:

[N380UA]

It's all too little too late. The money, which the banks have offered, is on heavy conditions and would only add to the already 15 billion CHF dept the airlines is having.
Face it -- its sad but there is nothing to save left. With another 200 mil. CHF due to Sabena today liquidity should be just about a strange foreign word.
I hope the Swissair pilots don't mind flying on Crossairs salary. Best luck to them all.

[gofer]

Hot off the presses: :eek:

Latest news is that even the Banks and the Government favour a loan - but to Crossair, to basically buy out what is of value from Swissair and to then let it fold. :D

One of the Banks conditions seem to be not to throw good money after bad, and therefore not to pay anything to Sabena or LTU :eek:

If your German is up to it - try this:

http://www.baz.ch/news/index.cfm?obje ctID=7B37B28C-959E-4E51-A4DBB3B715D811F4 (http://www.baz.ch/news/index.cfm?objectID=7B37B28C-959E-4E51-A4DBB3B715D811F4)

You may find the FT a bit easier, but less detailed: http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3K1ZT99SC&live=true&tagid=IXLI0L9Z1BC

Hope somebody salvages something - even if its only bread and butter with no jam any more - its a mighty long train ride back from here in HK even though it is perfectly possible - its not the commute I need. :eek:

---------------------------------
Fly or walk ? what a no-brainer !

[ 01 October 2001: Message edited by: gofer ]

[renegator]

Eurobrit,

have to disagree. it is simply not true that the first ever payment was made on august 0th of this year. it was the founding date of the "loma" which now holds the ltu shares of SR.

payments were made at least since end of 99 to finance the excessive cash burn in duesseldorf. although i of course agree on the sale & lease-back you quoted. the swiss have financed their acquisition by selling off the ltu assets, no doubt about that.

still, ltu is highly at risk and not only because of the swiss management influence (partly, though). the fleet is way to large for the german market, the longhaul operation to costly and the dependence on single-seat sales will backfire in times like these. you don´t get to solve these issues just by trying to get structures back to the good ol times of tristars..

sorry to tell you (i mean really), but the remaining options are pretty narrow.

brgds, silversurfer

P.S. not too many brits around at duesseldorf red&white, are they?

[N380UA]

Flash News

Swissair stock no longer on the floor...
Go figure……

[wallabie]

News of Swissair bust or fly should come tonight.
What a bloody shame. Mr Brugissier has turned this once superb airline into the laughing stock of the financial world and walked away with a platinium handshake.
I hope the Swiss get very loud about this.

[gofer]

Swissair Group: Nachlassstundung beantragt


News from today - The head of Swissair Mario Corti this evening has requested something between volontary liquidation and chapter 11.
Crossair takes over a large portion of the flying operations, whatever that means.

http//www.baz.ch/

Glattbrugg. AP/BaZ. Die Swissair Group beantragt für Teile der Luftverkehrsholding die Nachlassstundung. Dies gab Swissair-Chef Mario Corti am Montagabend in Glattbrugg bekannt. Die Crossair übernehme den Grossteil des Flugbetriebs der Swissair.


:mad: :mad: :mad:
http://srapps.swissair.com/srpress/news.po

For the latest Swissair press release.

Hope the Swiss go after Bruggeiser for every cent he ever got paid - not that it will make a dent in the figures, but it would a9 serve the **** right and b) perhaps get other managers to think a bit more about what they are risking, before taking some totally steupid steps and throwing shareholders money down the drain.

[ 01 October 2001: Message edited by: gofer ]

[fly4fud]

Eurobrit, take it easy ;)

Yes, I have some opinions and like to went them out on the forum, just like you. On the other hand, I'm one of the thousands of affected workers, having worked the last 23+ years for the group :(
So, when you will have endured what we have during these years, taking pay cuts after pay cuts, work increase after the next, then seeing all the £££ or $$$ go and spent on some illusory investments abroad by our ill advised managers (not only Brugisser in this!), then, and only then may you talk about cutting wings :mad:

Until then, once more :cool:

[Wheeliebin]

Some questions, if somebody can help???
1. Does this mean that Swissair have now actually ceased operating?
2. Are Crossair going to operate a significant number of SR routes?
3. Will the four Flightline aircraft continue to operate SR routes?

BBC now reporting that "Swissair are to avoid bankruptcy by cuting 2500 jobs". The situation certainly not very clear at the moment.

[The Guvnor]

Answers to your questions based on the various press releases and other comments:

1) SR will not stop operating per se; although the legal entities will be different (see below).
2) Crossair will acquire the viable airline bits of SAirGroup and will operate as Crossair in Europe and Swissair outside Europe. The other assets - including Swissport, Atraxis, Flightlease etc etc will be sold off - if possible.
3) Flightline leases will end unless Crossair picks them up.

I stand open to correction on any/all of the above - this is as I said my interpretation.

[N380UA]

I guess we can just about forget about a LX-SR merge...... :( :( :(