New MACC GM

[Mahaba]

Is it just me or is it a wee bit insensitive for the management team to introduce the new GM to the 'troops' when most of them arent even aware that the old GM is leaving? No emails, just a note on the NATS homepage.
The old GM gave the impression that he was carrying out changes to prepare us all (including himself) for the move to NPC and lo and behold we now have a third GM leaving our unit before the move and heading south where we are refused postings. Is it any wonder we are a smidge cynical.
1.Being posted en masse to another country (which we are sure is against european employment law-and are pursuing such advice):ugh:
2. Taking on more and more sectors from 'elsewhere':ugh:
3. Still being ignored on the banding issue even though we do have management agreement that it IS unfair based on FACTS.:ugh:
4. Still having ATCOs leaving for elsewhere (the latest ones being farcical):ugh:
5. Not being offered redundancy (even though our place of work is closing and the staff handbook says we should be) :ugh:
Wonder what would happen if the Spanish or French relaxed their joining requirements...inundation!!:mad:

[Lon More]

Being posted en masse to another country
That'll be The Independant County of Hampshire then, or the Republic of Ayr?:\

[flower]

GMs meeting at MACC tomorrow ( weds) maybe that has something to do with an announcement.

[Mahaba]

He was introduced today...Tuesday

[Mahaba]

Flyboys message tells me to stop winging as ATC is a mobile grade. Since last November the European parliament has clarified that if a 'mobile grade' is not exercised (ie been moved) within a certain period of time it therefore becomes legally permanent and cannot be considered mobile. Watch this space...EGCC has been at MACC far longer than the qualifying period so lets have that constant argument ended now please. For once well done europe.
He also says what about the scottish people who left their country to go the bournemouth...I believe that was their choice.
As for his comment about the family argument not holding up...are you management sir?
Next one? 'cost of living is cheaper in scotland'...bet youre convinced with destinations too.

United we stand...

[boynefly]

In the famous words of Rolf - "Can you tell who it is yet?"

[PPRuNe Radar]

Point 1.

Last I heard, the United Kingdom was the country we all lived in, a union between England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales. Back to school for some history and geography lessons Mahaba !!

Points 2,3 & 4

These have merit.

Point 5

I would advise you take legal advice on this and not hearsay. Of course NATS could just offer you all straight redundancy at the statutory rate I suppose. If it was me, then that would be a whopping 21 1/2 weeks salary. That'll go far :rolleyes: It would save NATS a fortune in relocation fees and salaries too .... although service delivery might be impacted for a while ;)


All those at LACC were moved, possibly against their will. All those at LTCC are about to be in the next few years. MACC is not a special case.

[DC10RealMan]

You have also been lucky to have had a plum posting for many years!. There are many of us who would have killed for a posting to Manchester. You are only having to do what many of us have already had to do.

[Sir George Cayley]

Is the new GM quite a bit taller than most?

Sir George Cayley

[Fidgell]

Im annoyed with some of my MACC colleagues on this issue. Yes, I want to stay in Manchester with my family and friends. If I had to move, Scotland is not necessarily my location of choice albeit Edinburgh was my uni of choice in my past...

Mahaba, exactly WHY do you not want to go? Is it Scotland or moving? If so please enlighten me with your extensive experience!

Are there any previously England based ATCOs on here at Prestwick who can shed some light for us all on living and working conditions in Scotland , including problems, if any, on living up there?!

Thanks for any "intellegent" input.

No, I would rather not go but looks like I am so gonna be as prepared as poss! Sure LATCC guys didnt/dont wanna leave for the south coast!!!

[Mahaba]

Pprune radar
Point one. The United Kingdom is NOT a country
England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland ARE countries
The United Kingdom is a nation.
Oxford's definition not mine...lesson learned.

Fidgell-It's not the moving as such. It's the lack of options and the extraordinarily poor way the whole thing has been managed since the early 90's, the lack of options available, the denial of postings elsewhere and the lies which we have been subjected to.

Mobile grade-It is legally not enfoceable. This is currently being pursued by 4 different legal teams now, and is therefore not just opinion-it is legal fact...look it up if you doubt it. We have been told we are a mobile grade as the standard answer-not true.

We are told if there are any positions available we will be allowed to move south. One ATCO this week handed in his notice at EGCC because he was denied a move down south as he could not be released to be with his partner at TC. She has also resigned. Point made.

We are told redundancy is not an aoption. Again (and it's not the amount) I refer you to european law and our very own staff handbook. More 'untruths'.

Many of us have the opinion that NATS are not advising us of these options and legal points as the house of cards would come tumbling down. They may be just about to. It's not about whether you like or dislike Prestwick. How many times do we need to say that? It's a basic right of everyone to be treated with honesty and respect. We feel that this has not happened.

Are NATS in for a bit of a shock.?I honestly believe so but what would I know?

As for another GM leaving before the move. It seems to have been a rapid move that no one had the slightest inkling about.
Something about a sinking ship?

[Fidgell]

Lets face it NATS dont give a s*** about people leaving. One has quit, yes, but NATS wont be held to ransom by some folk who think theyre a budding lawyer I can tell you. Hence why nothing was done to retain the Canadian exports.... all but preventing Nav Canada from taking any more:uhoh:

You still havent given your reasons for not going north, you want options? YOU WANT TO GO SOUTH!!! If NATS gave us all the option of up or down the M6 where would the vast majority go??? Exactly, leaving who to man the MACC sectors??? What if you get down south and fail to validate on a LACC sector?? Will you leave the company quietly or want your old job back???

I think maybe another 1, 2 max, will quit - everyone else will just do what they have to... including you my little trouble seeking friend - unless you have another skilled 60k + a year career on your CV!!!:}

[Number2]

I have to agree. All the 'bleating' achieves nothing and I guarantee the majority won't leave.

Not so sure about the Nav Canada option - a few too many NATS people tried their experienced controller program and went back to the UK/Great Britain/England/Scotland (delete as applicable).

The move IS going to happen. Stop moaning (because it's getting really dull), embrace it and all our lives will be more pleasant.

[Fidgell]

I agree with the majority of Number2's post, but have to disagree about the Nav Canada option, everyone from MACC that went to Canada, some 8 that I can think of, have stayed over there and apart from a crappy training experience - they have all stayed and still love it! Dunno about other units - but I for one, and several others I know of would be interested still should NATS release their - alledged - blackmailling of Nav Canada and allow us to pursue our interest!

Not a Scottish thing for me, or even just generally moving, Canada just appeals anyway and I thought if Im moving anyway why not??? NATS tell me why not anyway!

Still Scotland here we come, please be gentle!

[PPRuNe Radar]

Pprune radar
Point one. The United Kingdom is NOT a country
England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland ARE countries
The United Kingdom is a nation.
Oxford's definition not mine...lesson learned.

We can argue the semantics till the cows come home. The Oxford definition has no standing in law. European law talks about EU Countries, alternatively referred to as Member States. The EU Country/Member State in which we live and are discussing is the UK, as recognised by Brussels. End of.

If you wish to employ someone in the legal profession to try to determine that Scotland (or England, or Wales, or NI) is in fact a separate EU Country/Member State from the UK, then feel free to throw your money their way. But don't waste our union money on it please.

Back to the original point of the thread (which was diverted to a wider topic straight from Post #1 ;) ), the handling of any change in GM and the announcements, etc, are (on face value) abysmal. Another poor show in communications if the reported sequence of events is correct.

[throw a dyce]

Well Scotland has it's own Legal and Education System, a Very Expensive Parliament,and Football/Rugby teams:D ,but thats not important right now.:ok: Also made in Scotland has a distinctive mark in the EU and we make a lot of your petrol.
There seems to be a lot of very sudden management moves around at the moment.A lot more than the usual musical chairs.

[tired-flyboy]

OK i had deleted my original post as i felt that it was a bit to pointed.

But to respond!

1. I had no choice where to go, i was posted!

2. I like many others had NO choice but to move to Bournemouth to do the training. I didn't see any ATC colleges in scotland.

3. My family moved down to bournemouth to be with me as a family unit to help and support me. I'm guessing that you didn't get the reduced salary at the college so don't complain about standard of living!
And cost of living is relative to pay but lets just take housing as an example:
3 bed terrace (England) £210K, 4 Bed villa (West coast of Scotland) circa £170K, nuff said me thinks!!

4. And no i'm not management

Rant over :cool:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

tired-flyboy.. So why are you in ATC? You KNEW the score before joining. When I joined I would have gone anywhere to do the job. I wanted Heathrow badly but was too scared to think of asking. I tentatively suggested that "southern England" would be enormously helpful, family-wise, and got Heathrow. Guess I was lucky.

Seems to me from this - and many other - thread(s) that people worry too much about other things rather than the actual job. There was a new GM at LATCC once and I didn't know about it until about 6 months after the change. So what? "Management" to me were just office workers.

Moral: Go to work. Plug in headset and do the best job you can possibly do to provide a good service. Unplug. Go home and forget work and enjoy your family. Collect large salary and enjoy more time off than the majority of those in other jobs.

Oh yes - who is the new GM - Derek Jenkins?

[055166k]

Mahaba
If only nATS could communicate as well as pPrune.....of course the question is.....do they really want to, or are they just pretending that communications are important?
Frightened people, shallow people, weak people.....all adopt a knowledge-is-power approach. Anyway, where was I? Oh yes, thanks for the heads-up goss on GM................I'm gutted to have missed another VN after missing the Watch Manager post at Swanwick. May be a job at Bristol..........the successful candidate is xxxxxx but if you'd like a day out there may be interviews for appearance' sake.

[throw a dyce]

Tired,
A 4 bed villa in NE Scotland is nearer £240K and thats offers over.You'd have to pay 20%+ OVER to get that.Average house prices in Glasgow are about the same.Thats one of the reasons we get less money.A move to NPC is a £16K pay rise.Whey Hae:D

[Mahaba]

Getting a bit lost within my own thread here. I believe all of my original points still stand and here we are again bickering.
Flyboy-reduced college salary-my starting salary at NATS (CAA then) was 11K but that was back when the locker room was still a cinema, the procedural course was in the cowshed and the ATMDC didnt even exist. Guess we shouldn't make assumptions about people.
My original point was about the poor way our management handled a GM swap whilst patting themselves on the back for a job well done; and as for it descending into points scoring over whether england and scotland are different countries!?
Sometimes I despair.:ugh:

[nodelay]

MAHABA,

I'm always amazed when the 'mobile grade' issue gets thrown into the equation. When you joined and signed the peice of paper stating that the post was a mobile grade and you could be moved anywhere within the UK etc... why on earth did you not express your concerns then and explain to NATS that this was not legally enforceable!? Why did you sign? And what did you understand when you signed on the dotted line?
Would you still complain I wonder if you had failed a validation and NATS had the nerve to turn around and offer you employment elsewhere within the company - and dare I say - you had to move! Would you accept it? Ofcourse not, because NATS can't do that, it's not legally enforceable!

[Mahaba]

One of our problems is that the mobile grade only applies in one direction, the other is that the way this whole move has been handled has been, on, off, never happen, happen in 2 years, now 4, now you can move south if you wish, now you cant...no solid answers or honesty for years.
And yes, when I signed the mobile grade was legally enforceable and I was happy with that. Now its not and I think that should be recognised and people should be made away of any options which are available to them. Thats all.

[radar707]

I know, just stay at MACC and when the floor gets converted to a fast food spotters cafe, you can get a job flipping burgers and amaze the punters with your stories of getting exactly 5 miles when it counted and averting disaster with one single transmission saving countless lives on a daily basis, but just got screwed by the company.

The reality is that MACC is moving up North.

You could hope to get redundancy.

The money would go a long way wouldn't it????

Scotland is a great country to both live and work in, the educational system is second to none, the people are friendly (in and around Ayrshire and Glasgow at least) and the cost of living is about the same as Manchester / Cheshire (depending on where you decide to live)

If the "mobile grade" isn't legally enforcable, when will you be ballotting for industrial action? Would it go through?

[Fidgell]

Options for the desperately seeking options Mahaba,

1. Shut up and move North

2. Shut up and quit

3. Just shut up!!!

:mad:

[Sir George Cayley]

Yes, Yes and thrice yes: but how TALL is the new EGCC MACC GM?:ugh:

Sir George Cayley

[Cuddles]

Mobile grade.

I have been waiting 6 years for NATS to hold true to their end of the bargain and post me to another unit.

Maybe see you there. I'll be one of the cheery souls.

Different strokes for different folks. ATCOs doubly so.

[QWERTY9]

Sure LATCC guys didnt/dont wanna leave for the south coast!!!

But now they are here most wouldn't want to go back !

[skyman1]

With the latest announcement from PB, and MACC due to move north with NODE now that SATCA has been binned TFN, what is there to prevent the move happening earlier than 2010?

[BDiONU]

With the latest announcement from PB, and MACC due to move north with NODE now that SATCA has been binned TFN, what is there to prevent the move happening earlier than 2010?
Nothing apart from all the adaptation for NAS, Node etc etc etc has to be done and there's only 3 years to do it in and test it :ugh:

BD

[Ayr-in-ya-JockStrap]

[quote=Mahaba;2876160]Pprune radar
Point one. The United Kingdom is NOT a country
England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland ARE countries
The United Kingdom is a nation.

Wales is NOT a country! It is a principality. Don't let the rarebits tell you otherwise!!!:=

[Dances with Boffins]

Wales is a principality.:rolleyes:

[Gonzo]

Lucky NATS don't have any units in Cornwall, it could get ugly then!:E

[Radarspod]

This is by far the funniest thing I have read on PPRUNE for some time! Keep up the good work!