Heading handovers

[BYOD]

My question-When we are passed to another frequency on departure, we are told to report heading to next controller. Is this to tell the next controller we are out of SID track? Do they not pass this infor internally between controllers. Thanks

[tori chelli]

Is this to tell the next controller we are out of SID track? Yes
Do they not pass this infor internally between controllers. No
:) Tori

[dunadan06]

Is this to tell the next controller we are out of SID track?
Yes
Do they not pass this infor internally between controllers. Thanks
Usually yes, by phone, but asking you to "report heading" saves a few sec...

[Lon More]

Conditions normally laid down in letters of agreement as to when aircraft my be QSY'd on headings without co-ordination. This simply alerts the receiving controller to the fact that this is what is happening. Saves an unnecessary phone call.

[5milesbaby]

Do they not pass this infor internally between controllers?
Dunadan06 said Usually yes, by phone, but asking you to "report heading" saves a few sec...
Nearly all a/c in the UK transferred on headings are not phoned through previously hence the request to report heading to....... If we did make a phone call on every one then we'd need about 50 more telephone operators at least at Swanwick alone.

[Chesty Morgan]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but shouldn't a heading, if you're on one, be part of the initial call on a handover anyway (standard phraseology)? Thereby negating the need to instruct us to say so.

[1985]

Chesty, that would be in the perfect world.

Not everyone reports their heading even when told to do so.

[songbird29]

shouldn't a heading, if you're on one, be part of the initial call on a handover anyway (standard phraseology)? Thereby negating the need to instruct us to say so.
Reduction of workload by self-organising is a major contributing succes and survival factor for an ATCO. A silent handover is one of the workload-reducing techniques.

Silent handovers are made possible by automatically derived electronic messages, even between different ATC units. In advanced systems the headings originated and fixed by the radar controller (mostly called radar heading but that is the subject of another thread) can be included in system to system messages. That's ideal but rarely applied in operational systems yet.

In less advanced systems there are two options, either a telephone coordination (as advocated by Chesty M) leaving the pilot out of the game but consuming precious ATC time. It may not be your own ATC time, but also the ATC time at the other side of the boundary which you are unaware of at your side. A good controller takes account of this, it may be very embarassing if one is called in the middle of peak traffic to answer a superfluous coordination message.

The other option is asking the pilot to report the a/c heading on the next freq which is I'd think a minor workload detail for a pilot, certainlly at cruise altitude.

Not everyone reports their heading even when told to do so.
If the radar instructed heading is to achieve a critical separation of barely 5 miles it is even wise to apply both techniques, the coordination message + the assurance through the pilot's message. If, at the other extreme, the radar heading is far away from other traffic allowing a further shortcut in the adjacent sector courtesy next controller, the instruction to the pilot to include his or her radar heading in the initial call is a very clever way of reducing one's own workload.

[Chesty Morgan]

Songbird, I think you may have misunderstood me.

either a telephone coordination (as advocated by Chesty M) leaving the pilot out of the game

That's not what I meant. As a pilot, on an initial call to you, I am supposed to tell you my heading if I'm on one. I don't, or shouldn't, need you to tell me to say it, it's part of standard speak.

The other option is asking the pilot to report the a/c heading on the next freq which is I'd think a minor workload detail for a pilot, certainlly at cruise altitude.

I agree but, it shouldn't be necessary, we should be telling you anyway.

If you keep telling us to report our heading we will (should!). When you don't tell us to report our heading, unfortunateley, most people wont because you haven't told them to. This is wrong.

Tackling the root cause of this problem is the only way to stop it happening. And that means educating us pilots.

Unfortunateley it's a vicious circle. We don't tell you our heading ('cause we're crap, lazy or don't know we should); you have to tell us to; when you don't tell us to; we don't tell you; so you have to tell us to...

[songbird29]

Yes Chesty M, I understood your point differently. Could you tell me whether the requirement to report an ATCO-instructed heading to the next ATCO on first contact is part of formal pilot procedures, fixed in some sort of manual? Or is it common sense? Is it included in proficiency training?