B747-400 Combi

[ERASER]

I'm helping in a "hunt" for 1 or 2 x B747-400 combi aircraft. They need the range and cargo capacity. Total pax load in the range of 170 - 200 would be fine.

Any ideas :confused:

[c3000]

Curious to find out if this is one in the same of another inquiry on another site.

Cheers!

M.

[ERASER]

If you are referring to the tread on “Rumours & News” about the “New 747-400 Operator info?” then unfortunately, it’s not the same airline.

This airline (not CIVAIR) would like to start local (SA) operations as soon as possible but the routes they intend to serve requires the range of a B747-400. They prefer the B747-400 Combi due to the additional cargo capacity on the main deck, ideal for the contracts already lined up. They tried to purchase/lease a B747 SP and/or B747 300 as an interim measure but the deal collapsed as soon as a certain carrier found out this will mean competition.

The intended route will include South, North America, the Far East and Africa.

E

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Don't ZS reg aircraft have a moratorium on combi configuration after the Helderberg accident?

[ERASER]

Yes, I think there was something like that but I'm sure they will be able to lift that moratorium.

With the CAA today, no problem :E

[navtrack]

Which African country is that concern of ?

[ERASER]

New "start up" out of RSA !

[ERASER]

I'm not officially involved with this airline but I'm supporting their venture because of the opportunities to be created all around.

E

[Deskjocky]

Good luck with the Combi mate- KLM operate one into JNB- they are loosing millions on the route. Don’t forget the pax as the cargo side is VERY one directional and hyper competitive- most of the bigger all Cargo operators come in here already- Martinair just increased its capacity by 2 frequencies per week.

[ERASER]

Thank you for the heads up will pass it on. :ok: Don’t want to rat on their business plans but they will be flying into major cities not currently served, including lucrative cargo contracts as back bone for the freight portion.

I really hope it works for them, I have my doubts but I will support them as far as possible. The rumour of the "start up" has some major players uneasy :E

E

[putt for dough]

Eraser this airline you speaking of wouldn't
by any chance be Cantaun now would it? :ok:

[ERASER]

All I have to say..........:oh:

[putt for dough]

Fair enough ;)

[ERASER]

It would not be fair of me, not being an official representative, to give too much detail and information away! I’m just supporting a SA company, maybe along the way they create a couple of job opportunities for “our” people and giving a certain carrier hell.

I have seen Impala, Avia, US Africa and the likes go down but I will forever support new SA companies against the “big boys”

Please don't stop looking for the B747-400 Combi's and passing on the information.

Thank you!!

E

[Deskjocky]

I’m just supporting a SA company, maybe along the way they create a couple of job opportunities for “our” people and giving a certain carrier hell.


Good on you mate- just remember what has happened to every one airplane longhaul airline launched, guys get hired- leave viable jobs and wind up with nothing....

With a 744 combi the only thing going to hell is the owners bank balance:}

[putt for dough]

Hope it finally gets off the ground!

The more the merrier :D :D

[ERASER]

According to my understanding the B747-400 Combi would be the only jet, capable of uplifting the contract cargo and passengers over the distance required. I’m by no means an expert on this but I’m sure they investigate all available options. It seems that I might have received some info on B747-400 Combi’s available for charter, will keep you informed.


Thank you

E

[B Sousa]

Sort of interesting as to what gets hauled around and what makes money. I had a friend at one of the big Cargo outfits lay out the math one day and it seems that Passengers beyond being a pain in the ass, a liability and just generally looking for a free ride, are not always the best things to pay for an aircraft.
Take a look at the folks at FedEx, DHL, UPS etc. I dont know, but I can only assume that they are making pretty good coins. If you figure what one pays for an average envelope and take about 180 pounds of those you can see that they certainly get more money per volume than puking passengers with complaint forms in each hand.
Passengers have to travel, but based on what I have seen if I was an investor, I would look for big Cargo contracts.
Sombody clue me in..........

[Yossarian]

BSousa, too true. To make the big money these days, one certaily has to look at the major freight operators. According to the Pro Pilot Salary Study for 2006, it is the UPS and Fedex boys that are earning the biggest bucks.

For comparison:

United Max Capt on largest $15028 pm
US Airways Max Capt on largest type $13215 pm
Northwest Max Capt on largest type $13075 pm
Fedex Max Capt on largest type $17943 pm
UPS Max Capt on largest type $17290 pm
Interesting to see that a LCC, Southwest Max Capt is $16175.

Apparently 737s obtained at a reasonable price and well managed can still make enough money to return good salaries. :ok:

[Deskjocky]

Yes quite true- assuming you can make a return both ways- this market is veeeeery one directional- so effectively you make half the bucks. I know of at least one all cargo carrier that refuses to up load any cargo out of JNB (about all they take is a pallet stack)- instead they route EMPTY to another African country where they are able to uplift a load that offers an economical return. Just shows you the value of a full load.

I really need to say something here- simply to ward off potential employees to this type of fly by nighter- and believe me they will be. A 744 combi would be the absolutely WORST choice in aircraft imaginable. Southbound you may be ok- cell phones, car parts PC’s etc, but is you have a look at the majority of cargo shipped north/east/west whatever -its fresh produce. Now you want to load up 15 tons of fresh fish on the upper deck? You are really going to have to have a cool reception for your pax! Most of our exports fall into this category the list goes on..flowers etc etc.

Now I know some beanie is going to chirp up- we will put the pax bags up there- how much is that- 3 tons? return catering maybe another ton? What about the rest of the space??

The numbers just don’t add up- choose what you want to be all cargo- good idea- just don’t base yourself in South Africa, all pax- maybe not so good but you may find a nice down here in which to operate. Try and be a jack of all trades- I give it 2 rotations and it’s a goner.

[SAA201]

Doesn't look like any B744 Combi's available, but plenty of other variants. Check out http://www.speednews.com/listings/jetindex.html
There is also an "aircraft wanted" section on the site that you could try. If you come right, I want commision!;)
PS, despite my "callsign" I am in no way associated in any with any airline, yet! :*
Aircraft
Type
MSN
Engines
Stage
Availability
Company
E-Mail
747 -100F
19650
JT9D-7A
3
Lease / Wet-lease
Logistic Air [email protected]
747 -200
19824
JT9D-7A
3
Lease / Wet-lease
Logistic Air [email protected]
747 -200B
20009
JT9D-7J
2/3
Lease / Wet-lease
Northeast Airlines [email protected]
747 -200
20527
JT9D-7A
3
Lease / Wet-lease
Logistic Air [email protected]
747 -200F
20826
JT9D-7A
3
Sale/Lease/Wet-lease
Jet Midwest [email protected]
747 -200
20929
JT9D-7A
3
Wet-lease
Orange Air Services [email protected]
747 -200B
21162
JT9D-7J
2/3
Lease / Wet-lease
Northeast Airlines [email protected]
747 -200SF
21221
CF6-50E2
3
Lease
Clipper Aviation [email protected]
747 SP
21300
JT9D-7A
3
Sale
Blue Air Leasing [email protected]
747 -200B
21316
JT9D-7J
2/3
Lease / Wet-lease
Northeast Airlines [email protected]
747 -200B
21352
JT9D-7J
3
Lease/Wet-lease
Global Aero Investments [email protected]
747 -200F
21541
JT9D-7J
3
Sale
Langdon Asset Management [email protected]
747 -200
21542
JT9D-7J
3
Sale/Lease
Kuwait Airways [email protected]
747 -200M
21543
JT9D-7J
3
Lease/Wet-lease
WorldQuest Leasing [email protected]
747 -200F
21575
JT9D-70A
3
Sale
Polar Air Cargo [email protected]
747 -200SF
21644
CF6-50E2
3
Lease
Clipper Aviation [email protected]
747 -200B(M)
21659
CF6-50E2
3
Wet-lease
Phuket Airlines [email protected]
747 -200SF
21832
CF6-50E2
3
Lease
Clipper Aviation [email protected]
747 -200
21938
JT9D-7Q
3
Sale/Lease
GA Telesis [email protected]
747 SP
21992
JT9D
3
Sale
Swiss Aviation Group [email protected]
747 -100
22067
JT9D-7A
3
Lease / Wet-lease
Logistic Air [email protected]
747 -200F
22237
JT9D-7Q
3
Lease
Clipper Aviation [email protected]
747 -200
22238
JT9D-7Q3
3
Sale
McCoy Aviation [email protected]
747 -200
22239
JT9D-7Q3
3
Sale
McCoy Aviation [email protected]
747 -200
22246
JT9D-7Q
3
Wet-lease
Phuket Airlines [email protected]
747 -200
22254
JT9D-7J
3
Sale
El Al Israel Airlines [email protected]
747 -200
22303
RB211-524D4
3
Wet-lease
Fulcrum AG (ex-Mido) [email protected]
747 -200M
22454
JT9D-7Q3
3
Sale
McCoy Aviation [email protected]
747 -200M
22455
JT9D-7Q3
3
Sale
McCoy Aviation [email protected]
747 SP
22484
JT9D-7A
3
Lease
Transatlantic International Airlines [email protected]
747 -200SF
22506
CF6-50E2
3
Sale
Clipper Aviation [email protected]
747 -200F
22508
CF6-50E2
3
Lease/Wet-lease
WorldQuest Leasing [email protected]
747 SP
22547
JT9D-7A
3
Lease
Transatlantic International Airlines [email protected]
747 -200SF
22669
CF6-50E2
3
Wet-lease
Air Atlanta Icelandic [email protected]
747 -200
22670
CF6-50E
3
Wet-lease
Air Universal [email protected]
Aircraft
Type
MSN
Engines
Stage
Availability
Company
E-Mail
747 -200
22740
JT9D-7J
3
Sale/Lease
Kuwait Airways [email protected]
747 -200F
22745
JT9D-7J
3
Lease/Wet-lease
WorldQuest Leasing [email protected]
747 -200B
22746
JT9D-7Q
3
Sale
JALUX [email protected]
747 -200
22764
JT9D-7Q3
3
Sale
McCoy Aviation [email protected]
747 -300
22996
JT9D-7R4G2
3
Wet-lease
Air Atlanta Icelandic [email protected]
747 -100
23150
JT9D-7A
3
Wet-lease
Logistic Air [email protected]
747 -300SF
23395
CF6-50E2
3
Lease
Clipper Aviation [email protected]
747 -200
23407
CF6-50E2
3
Wet-lease
Air Universal [email protected]
747 -300
23482
JT9D-7R4G2
3
Sale
JALUX [email protected]
747 -200
23501
CF6-50E2
3
Lease/Wet-lease
Air Universal [email protected]
747 -200
23502
CF6-50E2
3
Lease/Wet-lease
Air Universal [email protected]
747 -200
23509
CF6-50E2
3
Wet-lease
Air Universal [email protected]
747 -200
23622
CF6-50E
3
Wet-lease
Air Universal [email protected]
747 -200
23735
RB211-524D4
3
Wet-lease
Fulcrum AG (ex-Mido) [email protected]
747 -300
24107
CF6-80C2B1
3
Wet-lease
Air Atlanta Icelandic [email protected]
747 -300
24108
CF6-80C2B1
3
Wet-lease
Air Atlanta Icelandic [email protected]
747 -300F
24161
JT9D-7R4G2
3
Sale/Lease
JT-Power LLC and Source One Spares [email protected]
747 -300F
24162
JT9D-7R4G2
3
Sale/Lease
JT-Power LLC and Source One Spares [email protected]
747 -400
25395
PW4056
3
Sale/Lease
Bristol Associates [email protected]
747 -400F
25632
CF6-80C2B1F
3
Sale
Cabot Aviation [email protected]
747 -400
26474
PW4056
3
Sale/Lease
Bristol Associates [email protected]
747 -400
26637
RB211-524H2-T
3
Sale/Lease
Skytech-AIC [email protected]
747 -400
26881
PW4056
3
Sale/Lease
Bristol Associates [email protected]
747 -400SF
27066
PW4056-3
3
Wet-lease
Air Atlanta Icelandic [email protected]
747 -400F
29053
CF6-80C2B1F
3
Sale
Cabot Aviation [email protected]

[ERASER]

Thank you very much for your information SA201, I will make sure that we get some type of payment should this airline take flight……...even if it's only flying by night.....and before the two rotations are complete :E

Deskjocky, you use strong words old mate, are you sure you’re not part of a certain airline…:} ………yes the odds are against them for sure but I wish them well in any case.....

E

[Deskjocky]

Eraser, old mate, I’ve just seen this movie too many times before. Every time something like this comes along people (staff members) get stuffed up when it goes belly up. If you want an example of how an airline should start up and grow look at how Nationwide did it- perhaps even 1Time (the jury is still very much out on this but I have a feeling they are going to make a go of it) Long haul ops are not for the uninitiated – the costs are astronomical and returns are always under pressure due to competitive action on all fronts.

Strong words- perhaps…. lets just say if there was such an “undiscovered” market worth exploiting then other carriers will definitely also be looking at it- data is freely available in terms of gauging what carriers are doing what on a particular route- if one carrier looks to be making some cash the others swoop down like a pack of vultures- and that’s just the “traditional” carriers- then you have the chaps from the desert that seem bent on world domination.

Against this a start up- who does not have any feed from an alternative route network or any other way of making money is going to find it very hard to survive- I know its not what you want to hear but those are the facts

[ERASER]

Deskjocky, me ol’ mate..........I don't really care if this airline “start up” or not......make my money in other ways! I just support these guys, trying to start something because they were “stuffed” out of their positions at a certain airline…. You are most welcome to say your say and as you can see from my previous posts I don’t comment or would like to say too much because this is not my place to do so, I was just requesting information on behalf of these guys. The choice of aircraft is not mine nor do I try to “add up the numbers”.

E