Guernsey

[Guern]

From the Guernsey Press - 16/9/06 Anyone think any of the airlines will be keen?
Dublin and Zurich air links planned
by James Falla
THE States is looking to develop new air routes with Dublin and Zurich.
But a planned link with Paris, which it was hoped would start next month, could be in jeopardy after a dispute over funding in Jersey.
Guernsey has agreed a subsidy package with Flybe for the Paris service. But the Jersey authorities, after originally agreeing the funding, have failed to confirm it, which is worrying the airline.
‘We don’t know what the problem is,’ said chief commercial officer Mike Rutter.
‘We are very worried about it. Because of the way French air slots work, we only have a limited period of time and then our opportunity for this route is lost for another two years.’
Mr Rutter praised the Guernsey States for its approach.
Commerce and Employment minister Stuart Falla said: ‘We had been hoping that Paris would start around now, but we are waiting for the Jersey response.’
Jersey authorities were in a meeting yesterday at which it was thought that the Paris route might have been on the agenda.
The link would be the first to secure new-style funding from Guernsey, including a start-up subsidy payment from taxpayers’ money and discounted airport fees for the first two years.
It is proposed that similar arrangements apply for Dublin and Zurich if there is interest when the States seeks operators next year. It thinks it would benefit investment from outside the island, visitor numbers and islanders. A joint States group, with involvement from Commerce and Employment and Public Services, has identified the three cities as targets for new routes for the island.
‘Our external relations group is trying to address the problems of getting here for a reasonable price,’ said Deputy Falla.
‘Route development will use taxpayers’ money to help reinforce these routes in their early days when it doesn’t have the volume to support.’
Deputy Falla said that the first step for the States would be to identify the financial support required by airlines interested in operating the routes. Money used in route support has been redirected from elsewhere in the budget of the former Tourist Board, which now forms part of the Commerce and Employment mandate.
Published 16/9/2006

[ICING AOA]

I think the Paris CDG route was supposed to be operated by Flybe on Q400, with a stop at Jersey before ! I cant understand why because there is already a route JER-ORY operated by a french company so called Twinjet :confused: ..
I guess Paris has an enormous potential not only for the wonderful "city of love", but also for Disneyland, and the Skyteam link (Air France, Aeromexico, Delta, etc..). Moreover the LGW/ORY (or CDG) doesnt exist, so it is not very easy for people living in the channel Islands to fly with the Skyteam !
As far as I have heard, Aurigny doesnt want to operate this route due to high landing fees at Paris :bored: :ugh: ..
Dublin also is probably a good route ! Aurigny is about to operate ATR42s soon, so who knows ?!

[akerosid]

I'd have thought Aer Arann was a possibility for GCI-DUB (maybe even JER-DUB as well). Good to hear ZRH being a possibility again too, perhaps Darwin Airlines, which operates a seasonal service to JER?

I don't know what the story is with Jersey, but I'll try and find out. As for Twinjet, I wouldn't even bother - their schedule is useless. BE to CDG makes more sense, BUT the problem with BE is that it doesn't interline with anyone else. I wonder if that might be a factor? What we really need is an airline that does do that and if BE can't do it, maybe the Jersey authorities want to find someone who will - perhaps one of the AF regional partners.

[Guern]

Given the number of Irish people who live in Guernsey (inc Mrs Guern) if it was a direct flight to Dublin that would be great. Having to go to Dublin or Belfats via another UK airport with FlyBe is such a pain it makes it a long trip by the time you factor in sitting around in another airport on the way there.

[ICING AOA]

Aer Lingus goes to Jersey anyway..

[Guern]

How exciting Aerlingus operates from Jersey!!! Aside from the fact that Jersey isn't Guernsey the Aerlingus route only operates March to October.

For the cost of getting to Jersey we had just as well transit through the UK in most cases, hence why we are discussing a route from Guernsey!

[GBALU53]

I can see where Guern is comming from reference the Paris route but one must not for get Jersey had a connection many years ago and the last operator was the early days of Flybe (Jersey European)

Look at this the airport will not be giving them every thing on a plate where Guernsey might to get the route going.

With reference the Guernsey to Dublin and Zurich do not quote me but there could be a Jetstream operator going to take this on and i think one can work out who this may be.

The Zurich route needs a very high fare as the aircraft is small capicity to make it viable.

Would airlines want to start a route in the winter????

I would think to test the water for new routes it would be better to start at the start of a season??

[J-Guy]

Blue Islands is the only realistic option of finding a new operator to fly to Zurich. It is just like the Isle of Man route, based primarily on a thin but lucrative business market.

I don’t see any other airline that could operate to Zurich. VLM and, more recently, Atlantic Express have considered operating to Zurich but nothing has ever come of it. These airlines have the resources to operate the route though they choose not to, which I think emphasises the very limited appeal of a Zurich flight.

It is also positive that Guernsey is using their initiative by offering route development funds. I can see the potential with Dublin and possibly destinations like Cardiff, Edinburgh or Glasgow.

[ICING AOA]

It is also positive that Guernsey is using their initiative by offering route development funds. I can see the potential with Dublin and possibly destinations like Cardiff, Edinburgh or Glasgow.


and direct routes to Portugal as well as those islands are full of portugese people !! :8

[GCIJ32]

Doesn't seem to be that much regarding Guernsey Aviation on this forum, especially seeing as flying is the main form of transportation off the little rock!

It's a shame really how aviation in the ilsnad has declined quite heavily over the past few years with the loss of many links to Europe as well as the UK and now only three airlines operating into the island. Will the new year bring some good news for this little 24 square mile rock?


Thread merged with the Guernsey thread already extant.

See also:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=210544

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=211973

[tilewood]

Oh for the days when Air UK, Dan Air, Guensey Airlines, BAF, Cityhopper
and others were flogging in and out.

I have fond memories of working at the airport in the 80's.

[GCIJ32]

Blue Islands is the only realistic option of finding a new operator to fly to Zurich. It is just like the Isle of Man route, based primarily on a thin but lucrative business market.

I don’t see any other airline that could operate to Zurich. VLM and, more recently, Atlantic Express have considered operating to Zurich but nothing has ever come of it. These airlines have the resources to operate the route though they choose not to, which I think emphasises the very limited appeal of a Zurich flight.

It is also positive that Guernsey is using their initiative by offering route development funds. I can see the potential with Dublin and possibly destinations like Cardiff, Edinburgh or Glasgow.

BlueIslands already operate a once wekkly sheduled service to Cardiff. Rumour has it on this website that there are more destinations on the cards many mentioned on this thread, for BlueIslands

Its a shame VLM has never really done much in the islands, they applied for the Guernsey-London City route but never operated it and the Jersey-London City has been reduced to once a day, surely a twice daily triangular service with the two islands to London City would prove very popular, especially considering the financial instituions based in the islands. VLM could also operate a similar once daily triangular service to Amsterdam, I remember when the KLM Amsterdam used to be really busy and that was a Guernsey only route!

[GBALU53]

Gcij32

Ref the Amsterdam route for a period of time the service was operated Amsterdam-Guernsey-Jersey-Amsterdam with KLM Cityhopper Fokker 100s.

If I remember correctly the service operated on the following days Wednesday, Saturday and Sundays during the summer period.:ok:

[J-Guy]

BlueIslands already operate a once wekkly sheduled service to Cardiff.
Yes, I saw that Blue Islands had added Cardiff, albeit a weekly flight. I think that extra Cardiff flights are more than likely for the summer although I wonder what the passenger numbers will be like for the winter period. As a Saturday only flight it is not convenient for locals or, indeed, short-breaks on behalf of Healthspan. Biggin Hill has not been continued into the winter so it surprises me that Cardiff has been launched at such a time.

[GCIJ32]

J-Guy

You'll find the Biggin Hill is still operating through the winter on a Healthspan Charter basis, I know there was a flight last Saturday!!

[Jerbourg]

Gcij32

Ref the Amsterdam route for a period of time the service was operated Amsterdam-Guernsey-Jersey-Amsterdam with KLM Cityhopper Fokker 100s.

If I remember correctly the service operated on the following days Wednesday, Saturday and Sundays during the summer period.:ok:


Actually NLM operated F28 & F27 equipment on this route with KLM Cityhopper then operating F50 & SF340 aircraft. KLMuk then took over the route with a mix of ATR72 & F50's. Then Aurigny took over for a short time with their SF340's. KLM never operated Fokker 100's.

[GBALU53]

Jerbourg

I stand corrected yes your are correct in NLM this was in reply to GCIJ32s comment

[EI-BUD]

I was reading above that possible routes operate from Guernsey to Zurich and Dublin.

Blue Island are opening a route to Dublin from Jersey I read in Irish Air Letter, I wouldnt be surprised if they did Guernsey too.

[hapzim]

With a major runway resurface due, the inclusions of RESA's required by the powers, why not invest that little extra (whilst all the disruption and contractors are in) and extend the runway and grouve it to allow operations by the new quiet efficent jets out there. Could even upgrade to Cat 11 approches.:D

Rather than being left as a Dash/ATR turboprop backwater:ooh: , a good London multi sector day service and a larger selection of regional/european destinations would be viable on a less frequent service (altn days / weekly for tourisim).

Need the States of Guernsey to bite the bullet and get the lot done in one go.:ugh:

[GCIJ32]

[quote=hapzim;3040489]With a major runway resurface due, the inclusions of RESA's required by the powers, why not invest that little extra (whilst all the disruption and contractors are in) and extend the runway and grouve it to allow operations by the new quiet efficent jets out there. Could even upgrade to Cat 11 approches.:D

Rather than being left as a Dash/ATR turboprop backwater:ooh: , a good London multi sector day service and a larger selection of regional/european destinations would be viable on a less frequent service (altn days / weekly for tourisim).

Need the States of Guernsey to bite the bullet and get the lot done in one go.:ugh:[/quote

We all know that the states more than likely will not extend the runway, that would cause an increase in competition from jet operators, now we wouldn't want that for wee little Aurigny now would we?? They "may" lose money!!

[five zero by ortac]

Well with more rumours flying yesterday about Aurigny's inter-island services going blue, and you still cannot book anything to anywhere on Blue Islands after 26th March, I see BCI have obtained slots in ZRH.
wef 26th Mar BCI940/BCI941 JS32 GCI1415/1500GCI 1234500 to 26 Oct. At last a decent place to transfer through. :ok:

[GCIJ32]

five zero by ortac

Where'd you find that out? Interesting though, I guess its going to be pretty much a Guernsey only route? Whats the flying time between the two in a J32

[captainyonder]

Flight time in a J32 comes out at about 2 hours 5 minutes. That's got to be touching the upper limits!!

[GBALU53]

Captainyonder.

The distance between Guernsey and Zurich flying upper airways sat Flight level 210 the distance is 471.5 miles.

With the Jetstream as you quote would take just over two hours, I would have at a good guess more like one hour fifty flight time with taxi time at both ends would end up at two hours and ten minutes.

In an executive fit as the Jetstream is would not be to uncomfortable as you just have a single leather seat in each position you never know they might put a hostess on the flight as this would be aiming at a buisness trade at a guess.

Well at least it is a start providing it come off and good luck good to see new blood appearing around in the new year hope it continues.

[GCIJ32]

Current Routes out of Guernsey:

FlyBE:
London Gatwick 4x Daily
Southampton 4x Daily
Exeter 2x Daily (Jersey Triangular)
Birmingham 2x Daily (Jersey Triangular)

Aurigny:
London Gatwick 4x Daily
Manchester 2x Daily
Stansted 1x Daily
Bristol 1x Daily
Alderney 4x Daily
Dinard 1x Daily (2x on certain Weekends)
Jersey up to 13x Daily.

BlueIslands:
Jersey up to 11x Daily
Alderney 3x Daily
Isle of Man 1x Daily (Jersey Triangular)
Due to go to 2x Daily from 26th of March.
Bournemouth up to 4x Daily (through Jersey, Alderney or Direct on Saturdays)
Cardiff 1x Weekly
Zurich 1x Daily due to start from the 26th March

Previously

FlyBE:
Little Change apart from used to be Norwich 4x Weekly

Aurigny:
Stansted used to be 3x Daily previously operated by KLMUk NOW 1X DAILY
Bristol used to be 2x Daily NOW 1X DAILY
Amsterdam used to be 1x Daily previously operated by KLMUk
Dinard used to be up to 3x Daily NOW 1X DAILY
Cherbourg used to be up to 2x Daily NO MORE
Jersey used to be up to 20x Daily. NOW 13X DAILY

BlueIslands Previously Rockhopper/Le Cocqs Airlink
Jersey Only 4x Daily then 5x then 9x. NOW 11X DAILY
Alderney Only 2x Daily NOW 3X DAILY
St. Brieuc 2x Daily (Jersey Triangular) NO MORE

Crossair Later Swiss Intl. Airlines
Zurich 1x Daily (Jersey Triangular) NO MORE


Funny how things have changed over the years, I haven't gone into great detail, I haven't mentioned British Airways etc, Air UK, the Heathrow link or any of the other many links that we once had with the UK and Europe. The Only Airline that has introduced a number of new routes in the past couple of years has only really been BlueIslands with Cardiff, Bournemouth, St. Brieuc, Isle of Man and according to rumours Dublin Zurich and maybe Southampton. Its a shame that this once busy little grotty airport shed has now become a rather quiet, badly designed but smart glass and steel terminal. Lets hope the new year brings some good news for Guernsey, weve already had news and rumours of Zurich, Dublin and Southampton lets hope this continues.

[mathers_wales_uk]

Blue island are operating from Cardiff but too be honest with an a/c only able to seat 10 passengers. I know that they seem to cancel their flight a lot as theres no-one wish to fly or they re-schedule it for a sunday. At the moment i believe their highest figure is about 4 passengers.

:ok:

[J-Guy]

The Blue Islands summer schedule is now available to book on-line. Looking at it there are not many obvious changes from last year. Guernsey-Cardiff is still 1x weekly. I'd imagine that the summer season should boost loads on this route.

But we're still awaiting the possible announcement of new destinations so hopefully there will be some good news soon :ok:

[GCIJ32]

J-Guy

Shame really! It also seems that there are an extra two flights a day between GCI and JER, an extra morning and evening flight. The extra morning flight seems to use an Alderney based aircraft, as the GCI-ACI has been re-timed to 9:45 rather than 8:30 Tuesday to Thursday, Mon, Fri and Sat continue with the current timings and Sundays have been reduced to only one evening Alderney flight but an extra evening Jersey flight. Carrying on with ALderney: Shoreham has also been re-timed and now operates Tuesdays and Thursdays, Mid-Afternoon rather than Mon and Fri mid morning, certain Morning BOH flights have also been re-timed to about one hour later Monday to Friday with the Saturday flight retaining the current times, the Jersey remains Mon, Fri and Sun at the current times.

All GCI/JER-BOH and GCI/JER-IOM remain pretty much at their current timings, give or take a few minutes.

All JER-GCI flight numbers have changed leaving plenty of space for expansion..... (does this mean the other Inter-Island operator may be giving up flights?)

There doesn't seem to be any mention of the Southampton route (which apparantly they have the licence for although no official sources have confirmed this) or the Zurich and Dublin routes, I assume these new routes would allow the utilisation of the new Jetstream that is apparantly on the way, we shall see!

[GBALU53]

Could this be and blue hangar opening

Interesting to hear that they have the licence to operate to Southampton from Guernsey competition is a good thing for Joe and his public.

This would tie in with the type of aircraft I heard they hope to operate with today.

There might well be news to come out in the Guernsey press tomorrow hopefully?.

[GCIJ32]

GBALU53

And what type of aircraft might that be?

[GBALU53]

There must be a spare ATR or two grazing on the grass around or in the anglo hangar if I am not mistake could it be one of these?.:ok:

Well we know it cant be the shed so you can rule that one out.

We will just have to wait and let it all role out of the Blue Hangar.:ok: :ok:

[five zero by ortac]

Rumour indicates a Fokker 50 on the GCI-SOU :ooh:

[GBALU53]

It might not be either but some thing similar there are a few more types it could turn out to be.

When are they due to annoce they ha:ok: ve the route?

I would have at a guess as soon as the aircraft is confirmed then we might know when and what the schedule will be.

[J-Guy]

Do we know if Flymaybe or Aurigny are going to be offering any more routes, because at the moment route development seems to be rather stagnant in the island, even considering the fact the the Guernsey Government is willing to fund new routes to quite a significant level.

I think there a number of new destinations that Guernsey could support but I doubt that there will be much progress unless the cost structure of the airport is addressed. Routes are difficult enough to develop and sustain without the additional charges that Guernsey imposes. Whilst current routes are safe, and Guernsey States are considering offering route funding, it is difficult to envisage expansion at the moment.

Flybe seemingly adhere to this position, the loss of the Norwich route is a good example, and I would imagine it is the same for Aurigny who seem content with operating lifeline routes. The States, as Aurigny’s owner, could influence new routes, but there is currently little the business sense in doing so.

But Guernsey is being more proactive in attempting to develop new routes, as their proposal to subsidise a Paris link shows. Flybe have said they are in discussion with Guernsey authorities to develop new routes, but with the airline’s current expansion it would be unlikely that Guernsey is in the receiving line for new routes for at least this year.

Optimistically, Blue Islands are obviously looking to expand, which offers good prospects for air-links. Likewise, there is a new Munich charter this summer with Lufthansa Regional, which expands tourist connections.

[GBALU53]

It sounds a good word but Aurigny are finding it difficult to keep onto what they have they are over stretchnig them selves at the moment trying to operate the passenger flight with no back up.

It works well you can not afford to have spare aircraft sitting around its all very well until things go wrong.

yesterday one went tech in Gatwick again so one ATR72 to do the rest of the schedule fying whinch as we know is immpossible.

The spare ATR72 is not in the Islands at the moment it is operating out of Stansted on a temp mail contract long way away from home when things go wrong during the day.

Well Mr H needs mail to keep the bank balance going to pay for the upset passenger when things get cancelled or serious delays.

Flybe are also over stretching them selves until all the new aircraft are delivered I cant see any more route development if any to come out of the Islands

[GCIJ32]

It seems GBALU53 that you were pretty spot on. This morning on local radio it was announced that a certain Blue Airline wants to start three new routes to Dublin, Zurich and Paris, according to the boss of this certain airline apparantly everything is in place including an aircraft ready in the UK, and that they are just waiting for the Go ahead from the Guernsey Government. Things are getting very interesting!!

[Ranger 1]

A bit off thread here. but there was a plan a few years ago to extend the runway in GCI any news if the plan is still alive?

[J-Guy]

Looking at the Guernsey Press on-line I see that a public hearing into Blue Islands’ Southampton application is scheduled for mid-February. Reading the article it suggests that they are not too happy with the speed at which the decision is being made.

So after then I guess we'll finally know if competition will be allowed to Southampton after 5 months.

[kuningan]

A bit off thread here. but there was a plan a few years ago to extend the runway in GCI any news if the plan is still alive?

Not currently - they spent the money on a shiny new terminal instead. At the time the rationale was 'we asked the current operators and they don't need a longer runway' - funny that! All this said, it may be doubtful whether there is the business for a 737 operator like Ryanair or Easyjet to come in (and leave, full)

[GBALU53]

The Airport parking of large passenger aircraft is a big joke, when are the authorities going to sort it out our is this for ever and a day.:ugh: :ugh:
The paper plane a BAE146 on saturdays unable to land before 0700 as there is only one stand to take a BAE146, so until the early morning Gatwick flybe departs they have no parking for it.:ok:
This weekend a Saab 2000 brings in passengers for the weekend, the aircraft unloads and gets airborne to park at Jersey for the week end, not the first time this has happened a Swiss BAE146 daystop did the same ferried over to Jersey for parking.:ok:
Nice bit of extra revenue for Jersey.:ok:
A bit of a joke for the operators.:sad: :ugh:
The Airport was designed for nose in push out parking but due to a nember of issues this has not been achieved so parking is 50 percent restricted when are the States and the Airport authorities going to get there act together if at all this sort of thing might well be losing revenue as airline and charters are going else where and even to Jersey may be not good.:ugh:
People have said before we are in a time worp so we need to ketch up, the states a going through some bad times at the moment but they and the airport need to sort this parking issue out sooner rather than later if at all.

[Jamesair]

Today the CAA published notices showing that Atlantic Airlines has been granted permission to operate Cargo services on the Guernsey - Bournemouth and Guernsey Coventry routes.

[GBALU53]

These licences always take a long time as they have been operating the route for weeks now.

As the saying goes better late than never.

[J-Guy]

It now seems that Guernsey will retain its Norwich flights this summer. The Flybe Jersey timetable shows the Norwich flight routing via Guernsey on the return service on days Su,M,W,F.

Flights are not available to book yet, but it is indicated that the Jersey flight makes a stop in Guernsey.

[Jerbourg]

Flybe have announced plans to operate GCI-MAN in competition with Aurigny. I believe that they were awarded the licence for this route some years ago when Auringy were granted the GCI-SOU route alongside the then British European (now Flybe). A gentlemens (!) agreement was reached between them & they both agreed not to step on each others toes.....

Now that BE have decided to get on the GCI-MAN route will Aurigny go for the SOU? And if they do how will that affect Blue Islands whose application for GCI-SOU still has to be heard, will they just cut & run - I would!

Better route for Blue would be to London City. You could fill 30 seats each way twice daily at decent (not cheap) fares & also pinch some traffic from the LGW carriers.

[J-Guy]

When is Blue Islands’ Southampton application going to be heard? The application is really being dragged out and has obviously hindered Blue Islands’ expansion plans.

Interestingly, there is now a survey on the Blue Islands website asking which routes customers would like them to operate. I notice that London City is amongst the listed destinations.

With regards to Manchester, I don’t see how Aurigny can object to competition. Remember their attempts in 2004 to compete between Jersey, Manchester and Bristol? It says a lot really. :rolleyes:

[GBALU53]

I did hear something a month or so ago about an ATR42 to operate the Southampton if this is correct the ATR42 is cleared to operate into the City so who knows.

We will have to wait but some of the jig saw could be comming together?

[Manston Airport]

I see Zurich is up on there site from this poll could a J31 fly that far and would they use one to fly LCY-GCI?

Regards
James

[GBALU53]

Well Manston Airport.

Two things to answer here I think the Zurich is rarther a longish one for the Jetstream around two hours or so and after all it is a commuter aircraft of sectors a little shorter I think.

They might be thinking of adding another aircraft to the fleet which could do these long sectors.

We will have to wait and see what is round the corner on that one or to come out of the Blue Hangar

The London City one is interesting, is the Jetstream cleared into the City for starters?
Not easy to get the slots needed to operated the service requried like early morning and late afternoon or early evening.

Looks like an Non Op to me but don,t quote :ok: :ok:

[Aurigny CAPTAIN]

Now that BE have decided to get on the GCI-MAN route will Aurigny go for the SOU? And if they do how will that affect Blue Islands whose application for GCI-SOU still has to be heard, will they just cut & run - I would!


Hello,

Well I think that Aurigny Air Services will eventually be merged into BlueIslands...
The fact that Flybe is going to open the GCI-MAN is obviously not good at all for Aurigny Air Services. The problem wit Aurigny is the management. staff are not productive at all. Most of my F/Os have a reasonable salary but they fly only 40 hours a month, whereas they should at least fly twice more... (Aer Arann F/Os, Flybe F/Os fly about 80hrs/month). On the other hand, we are not enough captains.
No toilets in our ATRs, and nobody in the management care about it, but my passengers always complain about that...
No music displayed in our cabin.
Tickets are more expensive than flybe.
Q400 is faster than the ATR72.
Flybe is now the biggest european regional airline, Aurigny is not planning to open more new routes...
I don't know about Southampton really. I think we should fly there from GCI and JER, but I am not the chairman :rolleyes:

So long !

[Manston Airport]

Hello Aurigny CAPTAIN Thats a shame about management not caring if there ATR have no toilets or music:eek: they where once a good airline. I think Aurigny will disappear if they dont start acting now:)

Regards
James

[Expressflight]

Have 'the management' looked at the possibilities for a SEN-GCI service?

After all, they have a SEN-based crew operating the Air Wales ATR-42 so I would have thought the operating costs would be limited.

[Ayline]

I think a merger of Aurigny with Blue Islands would be bad news for Guernsey. A bit of competition is a good thing. Look what happened to the Jersey-Alderney route. Aurigny were operating a once daily service and then Blue Islands came along promising the reinstatement of the twice daily service. What are we left with now? - 5 flights operated by Blue Islands a week with no direct flights available on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. There are many things I like about Blue Islands but I would not like to see them have a monopoly on inter island flights. As for the Guernsey-UK routes, I know of many people who choose to fly Aurigny rather than Flybe. I generally find that Aurigny flights work out cheaper. The baggage charges have not helped Flybe's image locally. I also like Aurigny's policy of trying to operate delayed flights caused by bad weather rather than cancelling. Having said all that, I do like the Flybe Q400s. In summary, I think there is a place for all 3 three airlines.

[Aurigny CAPTAIN]

Have 'the management' looked at the possibilities for a SEN-GCI service?


no way :yuk:

[Aurigny CAPTAIN]

Having said all that, I do like the Flybe Q400s. In summary, I think there is a place for all 3 three airlines.


next summer, there will be 4 GCI-MAN per day :ouch:
3 GR and 1 BE

:rolleyes:

[tilewood]

Aurigny Captain

I don't see why you should be quite so dismissive of a SEN/GCI service.

Flybe operate a very successful SEN/JER route, there is no reason why
GCI shouldn't do well providing it was marketed properly.

After all with visitor figures dropping year on year to the islands I would
have thought anything that promoted tourism could only be beneficial.

Especially to Aurigny which seems to be struggling at the moment.

[Expressflight]

Aurigny Captain

Sorry to make you feel ill at the prospect of a SEN-GCI service, but as a summer weekend route I would have thought it had possibilities.

I 'm sure many leisure travellers would welcome a simpler alternative to the Stansted and Gatwick hassles of parking, security check and a long walk to the gate. SEN also has its own large catchment area with a long tradition of holidaying in the Channel Islands.

[Dartania]

Alderney - Lydd please given the ILS now at Lydd.Did it yesterday in a single and was impressed how the Island had come on ,its now got a first class hotel.I,m happy to fly myself there single engine over water but unwilling to expose my family to that risk.A route I would definitely patronise but I,m unwilling to have the hassle that major airports like Southampton and Bournemouth represent.Will be using the Shoreham route in May and lydd would be even better.

[J-Guy]

Flights between Jersey and Southend averaged an 89% load factor last summer. It is an established leisure route that I am sure Guernsey could support. However, I doubt the route is a priority considering the Island’s attempts to secure other high-profile routes from the UK and Europe.

Looking at how Guernsey is attempting to encourage new air-links, I hope that Aurigny play a part in any growth. It seems absurd that Guernsey cannot rely on their state-owned airline to fulfil its tourism needs. Granted, any new routes will need financial support from authorities, however, there are gaps in Guernsey’s market which Aurigny is best positioned to serve in the Island’s interests.

Interestingly, I saw on the news that Blue Islands was in talks with bmi to create a code-share agreement for Guernsey passengers on the Jersey-Heathrow route. Whilst there will be difficulties in launching such an agreement, it further demonstrates the innovation and quality that Blue Islands have brought to the C.I. market.

[kuningan]

Tickets are more expensive than flybe.
Well, each time this SLF checks Aurigny are consistently cheaper than flybe - 2/3 times a month - I haven't flown flybe in nearly a year GCI-LGW, as I buy & fly the cheaper (and if there's fog, the first one in & out)....and last time I checked (Monday) the ATRs do have toilets - just no running water in the wash basins.....Is the rock getting to you?

[Aurigny CAPTAIN]

the ATRs do have toilets - just no running water in the wash basins.....Is the rock getting to you?


Well first of all, I probably know better Aurigny's ATRs than you just because I am a captain on the ATR 72.
Then, yes, we do have toilets, but they are not servisable ! (on the DA and DB). There is no flush and it smells like **** inside. It is very bad and I am always complaining to the direction about that.
As a captain, I am responsible of my First officer, my 2 cabin crews, and my passengers. I am the number 1 on board. I am the one who have the last word on board.
Hence, I find it quite embarrassing to take off with this problem. May I remind you that a GCI-MAN flight takes approximately 1 hour and 20 minutes. I feel very ashamed when my passengers, or my cabin crews or my F/O have to go to the toilets.:*


Anyways, The directions will eventually recognise that I am right, and they will solve this problem.

Appart from that, Aurigny is a good company.


So long !

[Aurigny CAPTAIN]

I don't see why you should be quite so dismissive of a SEN/GCI service.


Sorry, but some days ago, we (Aurigny Air Services Pilots) had a meeting with our president Malcom and our Chief Pilot Dave. There was no mention of any new routes. Nevertheless, we will be looking for charters as soon as possible.

So long !

cheerio.

[GBALU53]

Aurigny Captain

You seem to be a little upset with the company at the moment well I don,t blame you though.

For many years they have been in the dark ages and they still havn,t come out into the real world

For many years oppertunities were there but never taken up with a simialar thing accross the water when Jersey Airlines folded in 1969 the States did nothing.

State run airlines are always a drain on the tax payer, if the head person who is trying to run the company or an accountant there will not be a lot of forward thinking.

As a suggestion how about a staff buy out this has worked before?

Well it is only an idea, with the company run from that Northern rock for so many years it is difficult to get them out of that very big rut.

The ATR is an aircraft that can make money only if the company is run correctly look at some of the airlines in the U.K.

Some of the managements track records speaks out does it not?

[fudpucker]

Um, Dave is Flight Operations Director, actually, not chief pilot.
When Jersey Airlines went t#ts up the States of Guernsey (or Jersey) were not interested in running an airline (States of Guernsey still aren't, really)
Aurigny haven't been run from 'the northern rock' for quite some time, about 15years I think, so plenty of time to get out of the rut.
I doubt if Malcolm (with the greates of respect) would tell the staff if he was looking at new routes, you tend to keep that sort of thing to yourself (i.e. not forewarn the opposition) until you're ready to press the 'go button'.
Apart from that, some accurate speculation.:8
At least AAS is actually making money:)

[GBALU53]

fudpucker
The thing about Jersey Airlines relates to the States of Jersey not moving on that when it came about.
The States of Guernsey owning Airigny is good in some ways, as said in the the comment before this is not always a good thing State run airlines.
Look at some previous air lines is there a connection with Aurigny the likes of Gill Air where are they know Air Eccosse is another on so Aurigny look out.
The thing about the northern rock well it has stuck or most of it in the move to the South West in Guernsey?

[Aurigny CAPTAIN]

Um, Dave is Flight Operations Director, actually, not chief pilot.

Bloody hell ! who is my chief pilot then ?? :eek:

I doubt if Malcolm (with the greates of respect) would tell the staff if he was looking at new routes,


He actually told us at the last meeting that there won't be new routes ! Only Charter !! (but when ? where ? who with ? we don't know :ugh: )



At least AAS is actually making money:)

I do hope so !!!
But once again Malcolm told us that the fact of having lost the newspapers and the post contracts will make things financially more difficult than last year, so we absolutely need to do charters ASAP in order to make money.

[fudpucker]

Well, you do have a Fleet Manager:) Despite other 's comments about Malcolm, he does seem to have his head screwed on. Maybe he's learnt from previous mistakes:rolleyes:

[GBALU53]

Is Malcolm the Fleet Manager or Manager of the fleet this does make a difference.

Like Trislander Fleet Manager
Shorts Fleet Manager now gone out the fleet
Saab 340 Fleet Manager now gone also
ATR Fleet Manager

Then you would have Manager of the Fleet which is Mr H. Nes Pas?

Titles within titles for a small company?

[Yak97]

A useful guide is the free booklet inside Aircraft Illustrated (March issue) which gives details of UK airlines, including management.

Malcolm is this context I assume is Malcolm Hart - Managing Director

The listing shows a Flight Operations Manager but think this should be Flight Operations Director.

As regards "titles within titles" for a small Company, it is common practise, where there are multi types (Aurigny has had, at the same time, Bn2a, SD3-60, SF340 & ATR72) for there to be a Chief (FOD or Chief Pilot or whatever) and then Managers on each fleet responsible for the technical matters etc, as the Chief cannot fly all the types.

If you were in aviation you would understand this.

[fudpucker]

GBAL:
MH is MD. There are several other directors none of whon appear in the list below:
DR is Flt Ops Dir
there is a deputy Flt Ops Dir
there are 2 X Fleet managers
1 X ATR technical capt:
Then there are several training capts and a Flight safety officer
Ask at the AAS desk in JER if you are unsure as to what the initials stand for.:) Incidentally, the CAA frown on 'boxes' in the company organisational tree being occupied by the same names, and have done for a number of years now. AAS is not the small company that you might imagine it to be and I have to say that there are no 'sinecures'. Everybody has their job to do.

[GBALU53]

Yak97
If you were pointing in my direction, been in the Aviation world for over thirty years.
No only on the ground but in the air as well.

[Yak97]

I assumed that as the Channel Island "expert" you would know that Malcolm Hart was MD of one of your local companies, not Fleet Manager (Or Manager of the Fleet as you quaintly put it).

The MD is the accountable manager, and thus has overall responsibility for the operation, including its commercial success. He then has a management structure under him to account for the various other responsibilities, such as engineering, crew training, flight ops etc.

Your comment "Titles within titles for a small company" was by implication derogatory against Aurigny, as another has pointed out, the CAA place restrictions on post holders holding multiple positions (except in the absolute smallest companies - which AUR isn't). You seem to take delight in running AUR down - another comment "For many years they have been in the dark ages and they still havn,t come out into the real world" is a slur on the hard working people in AUR.

Sorry if I've ruffled your feathers but if you have been in aviation that long I would expect you to understand how Companies work.

[Aurigny CAPTAIN]

Well, you do have a Fleet Manager:) Despite other 's comments about Malcolm, he does seem to have his head screwed on. Maybe he's learnt from previous mistakes:rolleyes:


I don't know but he should have learnt that our passengers need to go to the toilets during the flight !
and what he should also think about is that :

http://www.eads.com/1024/en/pressdb/pressdb/ATR,%20EADS%20EFW,%20EADS%20Socata,%20EADS%20Sogerma%20Servi ces/20070104_atr_kingfisher-in-flight-enternainment.html

cheerio!

[GBALU53]

Well Yak97
I take on board what you have said, here are a number of things I can comment on
One of them is, I know what you are saying. a famous fraze from a well know ex airport director
Worked for them for a number of years.
Know a lot of people who work for them.
Still have close connections with them now.
Even have the tee shirt to prove it but no certificate to go with it.
The company back in the late 80s and well into the 90s was run by accountants does that not tell a story or two it normally does?.
Then a certain a person came a long after the demise of certain companies on the mainland which paints another picture?
Then the States had to put a lot of pennies in does, that ring a bell or two.
Another up and comming local company has easied Auigny in to dificult corners inter island but they seem to be going forward by spending money.
Aurigny laid dorment for years in certain areas when the oppurtunnities were there but did not take up some of them.

And by the way who do you call an expert?

[Yak97]

QUOTE: "The company back in the late 80s and well into the 90s was run by accountants does that not tell a story or two it normally does?." UNQUOTE

Find me a Airline (or most other Companies for that) which isn't run by Accountants now a days?

Yes AUR did suffer in the past when they were part of a larger financial group, whose focus was not really on running or expanding the airline, just liked its cash flow.

MH may have history but some was related to outside events (9/11) that had major impact on the airline industry worldwide (Sabena, Swissair etc).

From the States point of view it was a no-brainer when BA announced they were to pull out - all eggs in the Flybe basket??

Inter-island. Hmmm. I believed that the passenger numbers have been falling in recent years as competition from the fast ferries has increased, and charges at the airports have climbed, which form a large part of the cost of the ticket. Perhaps AUR are happy for BCI to take on the task? Once the SD3-60 had finished the economics of ATR72 on these short sectors is probably dreadful, and they are too large?

AX. Well they don't seem to be making much effort with 3 Jetstreams - 1 IOM a day Mon-Fri, 1 JER-BOH (3 or 4 times a week) and a CWL on a Saturday. Do they have something in the pipeline? Oh do tell............

[Evileyes]

The performance or non performance of toilets is not a debate suitable for PPRuNe.

Cheers,
The AA&R mods

[Jerbourg]

Does anyone have any info on the various flights to Germany this summer?
Destinations, Airlines & Aircraft Types?

[J-Guy]

Does anyone have any info on the various flights to Germany this summer

The German destinations for the summer are Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Hannover and Munich operated by Lufthansa Regional partners Eurowings, Contact Air and Augsburg Airways. Aircraft used include the Q400, 143 and AT7.

I’m pretty sure that Stuttgart has now been dropped even though it appeared when the flights were first released.

[virginblue]

Stuttgart has indeed been dropped.

DUS/HAJ are operated as a W-Pattern with a DUS-based aircraft:

DUS 1000 - 1025 GCI 1100 - 1130 JER 1200 - 1445 HAJ 1520 - 1610 GCI 1640 - 1710 JER 1745 - 2005 DUS.

I guess this is the ATR72 by Contactair.

FRA apparently is operated in a W-pattern with the incoming flight not operated on behalf of Wolters:

GCI 0845 - 0915 JER 0950 - 1300 FRA 1335 - 1445 GCI 1515 - 1545 JER

The published timings for MUC make little sense. The MUC arrival currently is at 0930/1055, while departures are at 1730/1850. Unless the aircraft is doing another charter for someone else in the meantime, it would sit idle for six hours on the islands and would have to reposition to GCI in the afternoon.

[GBALU53]

virginblue
This is the information that the handling in Jersey has passed on only a week ago and the Sttutgart is on as this is operated as a W pattern like the others
except the Munich.
ATR72 LH5020 Sttutgart-Guernsey-Jersey STA 1000 - STD 1040 LH5023 Jersey-Frankfurt
DH8 400 LH5026 Munich-Guernsey-Jersey STA 1125 - STD 1205 LH5027 Jersey-Munich
BAE146 200 EW1670 Dusseldorf-Guernsey-Jersey STA 1250 - STD 1320 EW1673 Jersey-Hannover
ATR72 LH5022 Frankfurt-Guernsey-Jersey STA 1755 - STD 1835 LH5021 Jersey-Sttutgart
BAE146 200 EW1672 Hannover-Guernsey-Jersey STA 1830 - STD 1900 EW1671 Jersey-Dusseldorf.
As one can see Eurowings are donw to do the same as in 2006 and the ATR72of Contact Air the Munich is by Augsburg.
With some conflict we might just have to wait and see what turns up?:ok: :ok:

[virginblue]

Hmm, my information is from Wolters Reisen, the tour operator chartering the planes. The times were published in February by them.

As far STR is concerned, Wolters definitely do not offer these flights in 2007. If indeed STR is operated, it must be for another company.

We shall see, me thinks.

[J-Guy]

I’m surprised if Stuttgart is dropped because passenger figures suggest it was the best performing German charter last summer. But the Guernsey and Jersey tourism/Stuttgart Airport websites have erased any details of the route existing so it is a bit of a mystery.

All will be revealed as the summer schedule is roled out :)

[Jerbourg]

Thanks for the info everyone.

What about VLM, are they back on the Rotterdam?

[GBALU53]

jerbourg

VLM are showing as a Rotterdam on a Saturday 5th may till 15th sept routing Rotterdam-Guernsey-Jersey STA Jersey 0940 local then the aircraft does a charter from Jersey to Dundee and return then the Rotterdam return STD 1600 Jersey-Guernsey-Rotterdam all times are local.:ok:

[Jerbourg]

The long awaited application by Blue Islands for the Guernsey-Southampton licence is being heard by the Guernsey authorities today, as is Flybe's Guernsey-Jersey application.


Are larger aircraft still going to be used on Blue's Southampton route (if the licence is granted) as was the rumour some months ago or will passengers have to suffer the somewhat cramped conditions of the Jetstream? This aircraft does not have much passenger appeal for longer flights.

[quazz]

When this story first appeared in the local media Blue islands said they wanted to use fokker 50's. Since then I have heard rumours of atr's and dornier 328's appearing on the scene depending on whether BI were going to take over aurigny or scot air

[Jerbourg]

Blue Islands take over Aurigny or Scot Airways?!

I really don't see that happening - what total rubbish some people put about.

[GBALU53]

quazz
The story about where the ATR aircraft was comming from was one to be leased in no connection at all with Aurigny.
The Fokker 50 likewize would have been a leased one from the Denim fleet and so on so where this connection over take overs came from seems intersing does it not?

[Groundloop]

Are larger aircraft still going to be used on Blue's Southampton route (if the licence is granted) as was the rumour some months ago or will passengers have to suffer the somewhat cramped conditions of the Jetstream? This aircraft does not have much passenger appeal for longer flights.

Guernsey - Southampton is a long flight?!!!

[quazz]

GBALU53
As I said, apart from the F50 reference which came from the local media through a BI press release the rest is all rumour :ok:

[GBALU53]

quazz
Where the ATR42 idea came from was from the company who was going to supply Blueislands to start them off .so that little number was not rumour but a fact from the supplier.
So work that out.

[J-Guy]

Good news for Blue Islands as their Southampton route has finally been given the go-ahead. There are no details on the start date as of yet but the timetable will be available from the beginning of May.

An interesting few months ahead for Blue Islands and the Island's air-links. How will they fare against strong competition from Flybe?

[Guern]

Anymore news since the announcement that Blue Islands got the Southampton route?

I heard F50 for this any other info?

[Jerbourg]

I heard yesterday that Blue Islands will operate 2 flights a day to Southampton, operated with Jetstreams. I don't think Flybe are going to be too bothered about this "competition". Jetsreams do not have the passenger appeal of a larger aircraft for a cross channel route. After all the rumours that have come from Blue Islands over the last few months re larger aircraft for this route this is a total let down for disgruntled Flybe passengers who were looking forward to switching carriers. I cannot see too many business men wanting to squeeze into the cramped Jetstream for a flight with no cabin service. As a regular traveller with Blue on inter island services I have noticed the ground staff have been struggling to cope of late How they will manage with extra flights I don't know, but wish them well.

[Wellington Bomber]

Jerbourg

Eastern have hammered Flybe with regards to businessmen/women using Jetstreams on quite a few routes, I bet the benefits of of such a short journey in a bigger plane are not worth it, longer to load up longer to get off, more people to go missing

[GBALU53]

After all the Jetstream was designed for the bussiness people in ming if the fare is good the bussiness people will use it.
A single leather seat for you self is not a bad thing on a 30 minute sector and as welling bomber quoted watch out Flybe if Eastern can do it up north they can have a good go down in the Islands.

[Jerbourg]

Fair comment Guys, time will tell.

[GBALU53]

Capt Upgrade
Will Aurigny be able to operate this possible Paris Air Show flight as they seem to be having troubles today with there fleet.
The ATR42 at Southend was called back to Guernsey to operate some services this morning as they have two out of three ATR72s broken and it is not the hight of the season yet do they need more back up? or are they just overstretched after making a small profit last year?

[Oilhead]

Guernsey to Southampton is a long flight in a Jetstream? 30 minutes tops I reckon - try Singapore Airlines Newark to Singapore non stop in the cheap seats (19 hours or so). At least you can stand up and stretch in a J31 - not in JOEY.
Oilhead born to the Forest eh?! :p

[Guern]

Given the lack of stands at the moment and aircraft having to wait in Jersey before coming to Guernsey how are the new routes operators going to get into Guernsey? Given that the States have been advertising for operators of new routes.

Will we finally get nose in parking?

[quazz]

How many more stands would GCI get if it went to nose in parking? One? They should remark some of the further ones i.e get rid of or extend stand 9. Nobody uses it now the saab and shorts has gone and I'm a bit surprised they don't park the jetstream there.

[Ayline]

The plan for nose in parking showed 10 stands capable of accommodating BAe.146-300 aircraft (3 of which were shown as being capable of taking an A320 - assuming the runway was suitable for their operation). This would have been in addition to the stands located in front of the cargo sheds. The covered walkway has numbered doors which I believe would have corresponded to the appropriate stand numbers. Try parking 10 146's on the present stands! The ATP bringing the newpapers was unable to land this morning due to a lack of parking caused by an extra 146 nightstopping as a result of G-JEBB having gone u/s yesterday. The ATP diverted to Jersey before coming on to Guernsey at 0740. I am sure most of us can think of other instances such as the ZK- reg Dash 8 which operated to Jersey rather than Guernsey as previously planned, the Eastern SAAB 2000 which weekend stopped in Jersey after dropping off its pax in Guernsey, the similar case of the Swiss 146 which day stopped in Jersey and not forgeting the Flybe Dash at Christmas from SOU which had to wait on the taxiway for the Flybe Dash from BHX to land, drop off its pax, load up again and taxi off stand before the SOU aircraft could park. There is also the issue of Trislanders parked in the wake of jetwash from aircraft parked on stand 15/16 - nose in parking would resolve these issues too. I wonder how many States members who voted for the new terminal are aware of these issues or even bother to find out.

[five zero by ortac]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the airport want nose-in parking, but Aurigny & Flybe objected ? :hmm:

[Ayline]

I think you're right. Flybe were threatening to charge more to cover the cost of nose in parking. They have nose in parking in Jersey and I don't think they charge more to fly JER-LGW than GCI-LGW. It's also a shorter flight from Guernsey! I can't think of many airports with flights from Guernsey where there isn't nose in parking.

[G-JECL]

Guernsey Airport was designed in order to show off to the world that Guernsey has money:D, however it also shows that the Guernsey government has no brains!! They may advertise for new routes and new airlines to operate into that godforsaken rock but which stands are they supposed to use? :ugh:

10 146's!! at the moment you can park 4 146's at the most with one stand capable of an aircraft of Saab 340 proportions and two remote stands only capable of taking nothing bigger than a Jetstream 32 maybe a Beech 1900 at a push. Would there still be a trislander box if the planned layout is ever introduced?:ok:

Charlie Lima xxx

[Ayline]

There was no Tri box shown on the original plan showing 10 146s. Perhaps we could do away with 2 of those 10 stands to make way for a Tri box. There was also a plan at one time to put the Tri box on the West Grass Park (after a concrete surface had been laid) but that would mean quite a trek for the pax. Still the walk doesn't seem to matter as the authorities don't seem to mind pax having to walk from stand 1 to the terminal.

[Jerbourg]

I hear rumours that stand 9 may become stands 9a & 9b thereby capable of taking two smaller aircraft types. IE 2 x Jetsteams OR 1 x SF340 1 x Jetstream sized aircraft. The "trislander box"parking stand is a very dangerous place. There is no set route for the aircraft to taxi either in or out of the stand. Trislanders frequently cut across other parking stands to gain access to the stand. Pax & vehicles entering this area are at extreme danger from moving aircraft & prop wash. It is only a matter of time before a serious accident occurs in this area. How did this stand ever get approved.....? Would anyone from the CAA care to comment on this?

[Ckin Gal]

Admittedly this is from across the water but here goes with what i have.

MUC/GCI/JER/FRA - IQ - Q400
DUS/GCI/JER/HAJ - X2 - ATR72

FRA/GCI/JER/MUC - IQ
HAJ/GCI/JER/DUS - X2

Hope this helps :ok:

[Guern]

Flybe flew the southampton passengers to gatwick long delay and then down to Guernsey arriving at 11pm!

They really not doing themselves any favours at the moment.

[GBALU53]

Heard a good one yesterday.
With Blueilands now doing a Southampton as of last Monday the 2nd July Flybe are going to put extra services on there Guernsey-Southampton.
How they are going to do this as this summer they have no capicity with the Guernsey based Dash or is this all talk by Frybe to frighten Blueislands.
With all the problems Flybe a re having after the take over they need to grasp the idea get there act together and operate to time if there is another carrier people will try the other one.
At the moment there is a spare BAE146 down in Jersey as back up for Tech reasons well it is not only tech problems but crewing play a major part in a number of the delays they have had in the Islands over the last few weeks.

[Jerbourg]

I don't think an extra Flybe rotation will have much impact on Blue Islands unless BE reduce their day return fares. I hear Blue are already attracting a large amount of day return business traffic. As the Blue fare is approx half that of Flybe's day return I can see their loads continue to climb. Maybe the Do328 would be better suited to this route in the future rather than IOM?

[J-Guy]

I see that Flybe has improved their inter-island timetable for the winter. The evening Exeter triangular flight will be reversed and route EXT-JER-GCI-EXT instead, allowing an evening flight from Jersey to Guernsey. I travel on this route regularly and will be pleased not to have the added journey time, but importantly it allows a day return for business passengers, which makes Flybe slightly more competitive on inter-island. Fares are cheaper although there is not a great deal of flexibility like Aurigny and Blue Islands.

Norwich remains for the winter at 4x weekly and Manchester looks like it has been dropped. This would leave time for an additional lunchtime Southampton flight if that rumour were to be true. I think this was the case up until a few years ago? Either way the Guernsey Q400 is free.

[Guern]

Anyone know who the 5 Airlines are that want to come to Guernsey?

It was announced on local news that 5 are interested. Scotairways were advertising in Guernsey Press for Cabin crew, I wasn't aware they operated out of GCI at the moment.

Article below from Island FM website

"New airlines could be starting up in Guernsey as soon as Christmas this year…. Commerce and Employment are in discussions with 5 companies who are interested in setting up links to Guernsey. Efforts to bring in new airlines and develop routes started back in December last year. Deputy Commerce and Employment Minister Carla McNulty Bauer says there are no guarantees yet, as the candidates have a lot of criteria to meet"

[virginblue]

Maybe a GCI-based operation to CDG (via JER) and LCY flights?

[Trihandle]

Hi Guern
I think you'll find the cabin crew are for the Dornier 328 that Blue Islands are using for the JER-ZRH-GVA flights. As the aircraft will be based in Guernsey.
Don't know if they will offering through fares from Guernsey.

[Guern]

Cheers for that I am just being nosey to see where else I will be able to fly straight from the rock!

[GR600]

Maybe a GCI-based operation to CDG (via JER) and LCY flights?


Maybe Cityjet will do that.

[GBALU53]

Now the Dornier 328 aircraft is painted in full Blueislands house colours will the aircraft be in the Islands before the 6th of November?:ok:
Would it be a good idea now it is painted to operate on the IOM service before the 6th november when the swiss flights start?:ok:

[virginblue]

(I don't want to hijack the Flybe thread for this, so....)

There is a lot of talk about GCI-LCY - why do people believe that LCY will work from GCI while it has never really taken off from the much larger JER and is down to a token service by VLM?

BTW, with now only three airlines (Flybe, Aurigny, Blue Islands) offering year-round services to/from Guernsey, is this an all-time low when looking at the number of airlines and routes? If one leaves out the inter-island/Trislander routes, GCI now offers 10 destinations (BRS, EXT, BOH, SOU, LGW, STN, BHX, MAN, IOM and BVA) by three airlines, with competition on 3 of the 10 routes (MAN, LGW, SOU).

[G-JECL]

You missed out GVA and ZRH so it takes the destination count up to 12. With regards to a LCY service, i think we all believe such a service would work as compared to Jersey we are served from the majority of London Airports. Remember Jer has around 10-12 flights a day to LGW, the majority being operated by Emb195's and 737's, plus two LHR's in A319's one LCY in a Fokker50, come March one LTN in an A319 and two weekly SEN in a Q400. Guernsey on the other hand has 8 LGW in the 146 and ATR72's flights and one STN, in an ATR72 so a double daily service. to LCY would not only provide a great link for the business community in both London and Guernsey but also another airport to connect through to toher destinations without all the hassle of using LGW. I beleive a twice daily link in say a Blue Islands or Cityjet Dornier would prove to be very popular.

[virginblue]

Thanks for your insight.

You missed out GVA and ZRH so it takes the destination count up to 12

I thought ZRH/GVA was "just" a connection with the Dornier being based in JER? Giving it second thoughts, how about the BVA route? Is this a one-stop service or indeed another conncetion involving an aircraft change at JER?

[G-JECL]

Well yes you have to connect through JER but the Dornier is based in GCI, however for many of the routes you mentioned you have to connect through JER. BVA, IOM, BOH and certain BHX, NWI and EXT flights you have to make a stop in JER before going on to your final destination.

What I would like to see with regards flights/ new routes out of Guernsey is the following:

BOH - direct and not via JER
NCL
CWL
LCY
DUB
EMA
LTN
and a Joint JER/GCI-CDG service (preferably operated by Cityjet or Airfrance)
AMS would be good too! Bring back KLM!!

[Jerbourg]

Any flight that connects is obviously not direct G-JECL, so to say GVA/ZRH are, is totally wrong, you might as well put JFK on the list as you can connect thru London!

NWI/EXT/BHX are flown direct from GCI, some flights passing thru JER. These flights do not require an aircraft change. However most, if not all of the Blue Islands services require an aircraft change & therefore are in my opinion JER routes with GCI pax connecting thru JER.



Virginblue - Yes this is the lowest airline & route count GCI has seen in many years. Sadly the future doesn't promise anything new either. Proposed routes by Blue Islands to LUX & DUB will not bring in the masses, but cater for a handful of business people paying high fares for the pleasure to travel direct to their business centre.

[G-JECL]

I never said GVA or ZRH were direct!! I was merely adding them to VB's list of destinations that are available out of Guernsey, of which VB inlcuded BVA, IOM and BOH which are also not direct. So don't jump down my throat for something I never said!

[Jerbourg]

The phrase " available from Guernsey" implies a direct service.
All destinations worldwide are therefore "available from Guernsey" am I right?

[G-JECL]

Now you are just nitpicking, i see you dont give VB the same nitpicking attitude for listing BVA, BOH and IOM as destinations available out of Guernsey! Available does not imply direct at all! Inverness, Glasgow and Belfast are also available out of Guernsey with FlyBE on one ticket, so i could also add them to the list. The definition for availabe in the dictionary is "accessible or obtainable" the word direct doesn't appear whatsoever. If I remember rightly using BCI as an example once again, in the Guernsey Press they advertised GCI-BVA as "direct with a 10 minute stop in Jersey".

[flyingisgr8]

I think this may be a case of people confusing themselves between 'Direct' and 'non-stop' flights as they can be two completely different things:

A Direct Flight could be a flight that stops at another airport, but passengers do not change planes.

An example of a direct flight is a passenger taking a flight from Boston to Dublin. The flight first stops at Shannon Airport and then continues to Dublin, with the passengers traveling to Dublin staying on the same plane.

Whereas a non-stop flight is a flight that does not stop at another airport before reaching its point of arrival

An example of a non-stop flight is a flight from Boston to Dublin. The flight goes to Dublin without stopping at another airport.

If you stay on the same plane you are NOT connecting, you are going direct

:ok:

[virginblue]

Before we all get carried away, let me just point out that I simply took the destinations fron GCI's website. For some funny reason, they list, for example, BVA and IOM, but not ZRH and GVA.

So what routes - other than JER ans SOU - are served by Blue Islands nonstop from GCI? If I followed your exchange correctly, the only "non-local" nonstops from GCI are:

BRS, EXT, SOU, LGW, STN, BHX, MAN

[Jerbourg]

Virginblue - 1 extra BCI route to add. ACI & of coure DNR with GR

[Yeadon Dam]

Does anyone know if there are any plans in the offing to reinstate the long since abaondoned LBA service that Air UK used to do?

[G-JECL]

Well this morning on the news on Guernsey's IslandFM the main headline was that the the states should not extend the runway as they do not wish to bring the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet in, but that they were in talks with three operators wishing to operate to the Island. Now these three operators have to operate either turboprops or 146's/RJ's. So who's in the running?

Eastern Airways? NCL, LBA, ABZ?
Air Southwest? PLH, BRS, NQY?
VLM/Cityjet? RTM, AMS, CDG, LCY, EDI?
KLM/Airfrance? AMS, CDG?
Aer Arann? DUB, ORK?
Manx2? GLO, BLK?
Lufthansa? FRA, STU, MUC, DUS?

hmmm... either way its interesting and about time the airport had a new operator and some new routes. However I would be very surprised if another operator does come in as the airport lacks a few facilities e.g. Not enough check in desks, not enough stands and no independent handling agent!!

[kuningan]

they do not wish to bring the likes of Ryanair and Easyjet in

Just shows what a feeble grip on reality the States have - as if Ryanair or Easyjet would want to operate from an airport with a catchment area of 65,000.....:ugh:

[hapzim]

An extended runway would enhance the safe operation of the existing aircraft and allow the newer generation of regional aircraft in. Not even from the likes of Ryanair or Easy with such a small catchment.

Ie your crj's, smaller emb 135/45/95, and turboprops with enhanced payloads for pax or freight.

[kuningan]

Is here:

http://www.gov.gg/ccm/cms-service/stream/asset/?asset_id=6526001&

Promises to increasy transparency & cut down bureaucracy......tho not exactly clear how

[virginblue]

Not enough check in desks, not enough stands and no independent handling agent!!

What was the whole point of building a new terminal then? They built a new terminal that already has insufficient landside facilities for the not exactly breathtaking amount of daily flights? Genius at work, me thinks.

The last time I flew from GCI was in the times of the old terminal (using Cityflyer and KLM uk back then :ooh:). While it could get busy on the apron at times back then, I was not under the impression that the airport lacked stands. Has the new terminal resulted in less stands being available?

[kuningan]

in the local press - Aurigny blaming Flybe for Aurigny's failure to operate a Southampton service:

http://www.thisisguernsey.com/code/shownewsarticle.pl?ArticleID=003244

[Jerbourg]

I think I am correct in saying that Aurignys GCI-SOU licence was revoked some years ago because they didn't operate the route. As for Guernsey pax travelling to SOU via ACI, what is Malcolm Hart waffling about. The man is a total idiot if he thinks people will do that.

I was talking today to a member of GR staff who said "This company is bit by bit going down the tubes." What a pity it has got to this sad state of affairs. Time for new management at GR, get rid of all the old Gill Airways cronies & get someone strong in who can turn it around before it's too late.

[Rantanplan]

I've stayed away from this thread but I'm getting wound up.

kuningan - I think you'll find that Ryan and Easy have much larger catchment areas on the other ends of any routes they may wish to operate into the island full of purple rinsers who might want to return to their holiday isle of old. Any new route from the island is a bonus for the islanders!

But on the whole I feel sorry for flybe getting negative press all the time. Even today in the press there was a letter saying that the only reason the airline wanted a runway improvement/extension was so they could help out Jersey whenever thier plane goes tech. I'm sure that Guern residents don't mind if a Jersey plane comes through to pick them up if their planes are tech! And I'm sure they'd appreciate a shiny new jet being on the Gatwick route.

As for Malcolm Hart's continual comments. The man is unbelievable! Where does he get off?! "Why should flybe get any money from the States because their jet will not be able to fly full from here?" Not a direct quote, I'm paraphrasing, but the same reason as to why Aurigny should be States owned if they are supposedly turning a profit!! If they're doing so well, why don't they move on from any State's funding etc. I'd be delighted to see local people's taxes go towards the essential runway work and not providing a complimentary Press and soft drink to punters. When will they realise that's not the way a COMPANY works?!! As for them blaming flybe for a loss of SOU route, well, if a Blue Islands flight left with 1 passenger the other night compared to a few more on the flybe plane, where do they think these mystical locals are going to turn up from? People are hardly queuing up for the long trip via ALD, be it via, through or direct! Whatever the phraseology, you only need to ask the poor Bristol pax (we all know it's happened more than once!) what they think about an extended trip on a tri. And I love that plane! But Malcolm blames flybe for the loss of the "new" SOU route because of their (flybe's) lack of commitment on the MAN route. They must hve reasons for dropping it. I don't understand it cos they were pretty busy when I used them in early Jan! But as for his comments about not being able to reinstate an extra flight pet day because it's not financially viable, well something's not right! Aurigny have a monopoly with 2 flights a day!! Don't let "your" islanders down!

The expensive ads in last year's Flight for a few weeks.... the only airlines who submitted a new route were Aer Arran and Eastern Airlines! Ask the public- nobody knows who they are, and I wouldn't gamble my favourite pencil on them keeping a route longer than a year.

The runway needs to be sorted. It's appalling that the island has let this situation get out of hand. There is NO money in the State's purse to pay for this, BUT IT MUST BE DONE. Stop handing out the Press on flights for a start.

Rant over, but there may be more! Sorry if my random comments has tainted this thread, but it is entitled "Guernsey".

[Jerbourg]

Well said Rantanplan. I agree with all you have said. One point re the free papers. I believe the publishers of the the paper charge something like £0.00001 per copy to the airline so it is not a huge amount of expenditure to an airline in the scheme of things, but it could be money better spent I agree.

[bmaviscount]

Going back to the point about connections or lack of connections from Guernsey;The spurious thing about airlines offering 'direct' connections form Guernesy is that they charge more for a GCI departure than a JER departure GCI-IOM for example by blue islands as one direction involves a change of plane- shouldn't the interisland leg be swallowed by the airline?

On he other point about digs at Aurigny; As a visitor to the island I have to say Aurigny with its offer of free G Press and drinks offers a welcome friendly service in these times of no-frills blandness!

[Guern]

I have to admit the only reason I use Flybe when I go to london to work is it gives me 45mins more flexibilty on the return so I can do a full days work in London that day and still get back to Guernsey that night.

[Jerbourg]

GCI has a new handling agent - Flight Support are setting up ops on the island & Flybe are their first customer. Flybe staff were told at a meeting last night that self handling was finishing. GCI has long needed an independant handling agent, lets hope this operation will flourish.

[G-JECL]

will we see Aurigny, Blue Islands or the summer charter flights by Lufthansa move to start being handled by Flight Support. An independent handling agent has long been needed on the island since Servisair pulled out in 2004.

Will this be advantageous for the introduction of pushback on the island? Will this make the airport a tiny bit more attractive to new airlines seeing as they would no longer need to be handled by a competitor but by and independent thrid party?

[fudpucker]

I would imagine Aurigny would keep their handling 'in house', probably the same for Blue Island. Luftie will probably go with the cheapest, but Aurigny have a good reputation as handling agents.
Don't see how an independent handling agent would facilitate pushback procedures. There's a hell of an investment needed to fund ground vehicles, probably why Flybe decided to hive off their handling to an outside agency. On the other hand, a cynic might think that they were engaged in running down their operations here (GCI).

[G-JECL]

Wouldn't be surprising if in a years time FlyBE have axed a number of routes out of the island.

[Jerbourg]

Aurigny were on the verge of signing up with Servisair GCI a few years back to save costs, so never say never.

[jerboy]

I think GR will hand their handling over to a separate agent in JER well before GCI.

JER is a smaller station, not their main hub, and has two independant handling agents already (ASCIL and Servisair). But to my knowledge they have never expressed a wish to cease self handling ops down here.

I think GCI pax will be seeing Aurigny staff for the time being!

[Jerbourg]

JERBOY -The near Servisair deal done by included JER operations as well as all cargo, in the end GR got cold feet & just signed up for UK mainland stations.

[Drink Up Thee Cider]

Not sure I understand the logic behind G-JECL's statement that he "Wouldn't be surprising if in a years time FlyBE have axed a number of routes out of the island".

I would've thought that focussing on flying the planes rather than providing the back of house would mean Flybe will be able to do precisely the opposite. Surely the real barrier to growth on Guern is exactly what rantaplan was bemoaning last month - the 1970's-style state-ownership aviation policy practised by the States of Guernsey.

[fudpucker]

Whilst hiving off ground handling to a third party can be financially attractive, it does mean that the airline 'loses control' of the ground handling. they become reliant on the third party fulfilling the contract in terms of staff numbers, standard of pax service etc. It's fine to say 'well, if they don't fulfill their part of the contract then we'll get somebody else or withhold payment', but on the day that things go wrong the airline can't do anything about it. For that reason Aurigny (and quite possibly Blue Island) will most likely keep ground handling 'in house'. Whatever some posters may think and say, both companies sell themselves to a large extent on service.
The States of Guernsey have a problem with aviation and it all comes down to 'bums on seats'. They require year-round services to help the economy of the Island, they also need to make sure the 'life-line' routes keep running. That's why they took a financial interest in Aurigny in the first place. However, they can't simply award Aurigny routes and block other airlines from flying on them in order to protect both Aurigny and the life-line routes. A good example was ACI - Jer. Hart told the States(GCI & JER) that there was not enough traffic on the route for one operator, let alone two, and if they allowed Blue Island to operate on it then Aurigny would pull off.... and that's exactly what happened. When Flybe started operating a Manchester-GCI route, it hurt Aurigny quite badly, but again the States is not able to protect them.
There are a number of airlines that operate summer charters to the Islands, because they can make a quick profit at it. There aren't many that would maintain a year-round service. Despite what many post on this forum about wanting/needing new routes to the Island(s), both Islands are actually quite well served in terms of destinations/frequency of service.

[Jerbourg]

I seem to recall BA operating twice daily GCI-MAN & the greedy Malcolm Hart came along & also got a licence for the route with the result that BA pulled off. Flybe getting licenced alongside Aurigny is just what he did to BA. I think Mr H bleats on about one thing while actually doing another.

[Yak97]

Didn't BA want to pull off the GCI-MAN because they were getting rid of the ATP's and AUR filled the requirement?

[Jerbourg]

As I heard it, Aurigny were the then handling agent for BA & saw how good the figs were on the GCI-MAN route & fancied a slice of the cake.

BA announced their withdrawal from the route AFTER Aurigny started ops.

[G-JECL]

Any news yet on the summer schedules for the Lufthansa and VLM charter flights?

[fudpucker]

I was with a BA subsidiary when all this was going on ( a very minor management position). It was well known that BA was going to make changes in regional flights, most of us didn't foresee that the changes would be as drastic as they turned out to be. We naively assumed BA wanted a profitably regional division.
Whilst not a fully paid-up member of the 'Hart appreciation society' give the man credit for realizing that the route was going to be 'rationalised' in the near future. It would not surprise me if he wasn't given an 'unofficial' heads up by BA. I regularly used to console Fleet managers who found the ground had been cut from under their feet by 'rationalisations'.

[kuningan]

Wouldn't be surprising if in a years time FlyBE have axed a number of routes out of the island.

Ah, but when is a flybe route not a route? When its 'seasonal' - like its Manchester run, dropped pdq with no warning. I'll be sticking with Aurigny - at least you know they are going to operate.........

[kuningan]

Flybe Press release:

http://www.flybe.com/news/0803/03b.htm

Aurigny rather childishly replying that "its rival had timed its statement to spoil the States-owned airline’s birthday celebrations."

Not exactly a robust response to questions of control and state ownership of airlines.....

http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/03/04/sell-aurigny-and-fly-more-cheaply/

On the one hand 'open skies' have generally driven up consumer choice and down prices....on the other look what happened to FLYBE's Manchester service - dropped like a hot potato due to 'seasonal demand'. I guess we can't have it all. I'd rather pay a bit more for year-round reliable service, not cheaper service in peak season, then none at all in off-peak, which would appear in practice to be our options. And another thing.....when I check flight prices....why do FLYBE's almost always work out more expensive than Aurigny's (even without check-in)?

[kuningan]

Not sure I understand the logic behind G-JECL's statement that he "Wouldn't be surprising if in a years time FlyBE have axed a number of routes out of the island".

Surely the logic is that outsourcing ops gives Flybe more flexibility - so they can ramp up and down services with seasonal demand - and not have a fixed cost base to worry about? Great if you want lots of cheaper flights in summer - not so great if you want year-round services.

[Jerbourg]

Flybe have today announced 3 new routes out of JER. It appears GCI is becoming more of a backwater than ever despite the airport saying it is trying to encourage new operators/routes to the island, there is no evidence of anything happening at all. Sad times indeed.

[quazz]

Guernsey just does not have the population or the tourism appeal to support a great many destinations. If I think back to all the destinations and operators that have been and gone over the last 30 years. The people demand more and more airlinks and then don't use them :ugh:

[baskerville]

Flybe launch new Guernsey to Dublin route
20 March 2008
Flybe, Europe’s largest regional airline, has today announced the addition of a brand new, three times a week non-stop route to Dublin for Guernsey passengers effective 7th June.

The year round route will hugely benefit both business and leisure travellers who can now book the non-stop service to the Irish capital. Guernsey – Dublin
Flights operate Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays.
Fares from £29.99 one way including taxes and charges
Mike Rutter, Chief Commercial Officer, Flybe comments: “This new route reflects our continued commitment to the Island and to promoting the growth of regional air travel. Flybe is grateful for the support given by the States of Guernsey in relation to this new route - an indication of the strategic importance of this link for the Island.
This latest announcement will provide Islanders with even more choice for reliable, low-cost services from their doorstep and people are advised to book now to obtain the best possible affordable fares”.

[hapzim]

Worried about the competition from Blue Islands if they got their act together with a direct DUB and the proper Blue Islands customer service.

[fredtheanorak]

this is all about FlyBes response to BCI starting SOU. Its a big warning- you take on Flybe, we'll come and F:mad: your new routes to Paris, IOM and DUB. They ll want more GCI JER rights next........

[J-Guy]

Looks like Blue Islands has already dropped plans to operate to Dublin from both Islands. There is no mention of it on their website anymore so it seems as if they’ve responded to Flybe already. It is not surprising considering the routing and fares, which were not very appealing at all, especially for Guernsey passengers.

But a good new direct route for Guernsey. Any more announcements to come, I wonder? There was some talk a while back that the authorities were in discussions with a number of airlines to operate new flights from Guernsey; any news on this?

[virginblue]

With Jethro's reporting that the final BAe 146 will be withdrawn by the end of March, what is the future of the LGW operations?

[GBALU53]

virginblue
I think an easy one to work out, it makes things easy crewing, with only one type being operated out of the Island,
I would have at a guess unless there is something in the pipe line the BAE146 routes out of Guernsey will be replaced by another Dash 8 400.

[Jerbourg]

If BE are getting rid of all their own 146's would they consider getting Flightline or Titan to operate the route on their behalf?

[JobsaGoodun]

I don't think you'll find any changes in GCI regarding the 146 for a little while yet. This appears to have been extended through until the end of the new summer season (Oct '08).

What happens after this date is anyones guess, but a Q400 is likely unless Flybe are willing to restrict weight and capacity of the E195, or unless States of Guernsey agree to a costly reinforcement work to the runway.

[fudpucker]

In todays Guernsey paper there's an advert telling everybody how wonderful Flybe's 78 seat Dash 8 Q400 aircraft are compared to Aurigny's old ATR's, which have less seats, and 15 year old Trislanders. JOEY even got a mention.
I was in Jersey yesterday, from memory (I didn't write this down I was laughing too much)
Flybe to SOU Cancelled
FLYBE to LGW indefinite delay (announcement said no information was available)
FLYBE to Birmingham....Cancelled
FLYBE to almost anywhere else....indefinite delay, no information etc etc.
------------------
I really hope that Aurigny respond to this advert (getting their facts complete, unlike me).
I wonder if they are running the ad in the Jersey press?

[fudpucker]

Well, journalists 'do' journalism, it's what they get paid for. I agree not well reported, but apart from that what's your problem with it?

[kuningan]

Its a comment on Flybe customer service - and there's been another one about the decimation of the Norwich route:

http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2008/04/15/flybe-falling-out-with-norwich/

Despite (or because of?) their Aurigny slagging off Flybe seem to be getting a quite hostile press......

[egnxema]

Quick question. Sorry if has been covered previously.

GCI - EMA

Viability of route?? Has previously been a daily BD route, and x weekly with Aurigny.

My thought is that it would sustain a summer season service for sure.

Any thoughts?

[kuningan]

GCI-EMA - I doubt there would be the demand - Flybe took the direct GCI-BHX route and turned it into a triangular GCI-JER-BHX, alternating the first Channel Island airport, so one flight out of two you go via the other island.

[radiosutch]

I see all FLYBE flights in and out of Guernsey are cancelled for the remainder of the day. Something up ?

Guernsey Airport Flight Departures (http://www.guernsey-airport.gov.gg/departures.html)
Guernsey Airport Flight Arrivals (http://www.guernsey-airport.gov.gg/arrivals.html)

[hapzim]

Fire service working to rule today and not enough fire coverage for Dash 8 - 400

[Nubboy]

Must be the French influence.
Delayed of course due to having to cross that little bit of water:ok:

[Rainboe]

As a mater of interest, why bypass the Flybe thread .......for a post about .......Flybe? Why imply something up at Flybe when there is no such thing, it is something up at Guernsey?

[JobsaGoodun]

Must be the French influence.
Delayed of course due to having to cross that little bit of water

Don't think so nubboy as Aurigny are operating without any problems today. Looks like hapzim has the more likely answer

[Jerbourg]

Mods, can this thread be merged with the GUERNSEY thread?

[arnoldk]

Mods, please get this removed - it is NOTHING to do with Flybe, and EVERYTHING to do with GCI!!

[trafficnotsighted]

Radiosutch, how dare you say such things about flybe, what on earth must you have been thinking, maybe you heard a rumour that something was up with the guernsey
route and decided to post it.
You are obviously not taking this rumour network serious enough , get a grip man you are upsetting people :mad:who know better than you.:=

[trafficnotsighted]

yes thanks.

[wasamover]

Word is that Flybe are gonna bill GCI airport auth for any hotac or other pax costs.

[quazz]

yeah good luck with that

[Cloud1]

good idea - complete balls up with GCI......was it just the q400 that were affected or was Aurigny's ATR affected too? (I understand it was fire cover issues)

[RED WINGS]

Strangely no, the Aurigny flights were uneffected, seems like underhand goings on to me! Was it not the day Flybe started the extra rotation to LGW? I guess its like a mini version of what Alitalia get up to in Milan.

[quazz]

Funnily enough it wasn't the day flybe started the extra gatwick rotation. It being a sunday in Febuary all the airlines were operating a reduced schedule. There's no big mystery. Staff shortages at the airport fire services because of sickness led to the level of fire category being reduced from 6 to 5. It happens about 3 or 4 times a year in GCI so you'd think the airport authority would have a backup plan. It's probably not a good idea to p!ss off the main regional operator into guernsey

[Cyclone733]

I doubt there is anything underhanded going on from the flybe side.
The Q400 requires Crash cat 6 due to it's length and the ATR 72 requires cat 5.

Now if you were the owner of an airline and could cause issues for the competition by reducing the fire cover at the last minute....

[Outoftheblue22]

Air Southwest are starting Plymouth-GCI from 8th April

Advert link removed

[RED WINGS]

HAHA Cyclone733 you have a much better way with words than I!

[wakeup]

So I hear that the Guernsey Fire service are upto to there tricks again. How long are Flybe going to put up with such shoddy service from the airport ?:=

Maybe Guernsey will see what they are missing when Flybe start to reduce services, then they won't have a problem with fire category!!!!:D

[Saab2000 Freak]

It's not only FlyBE who are suffering this time, but Aurigny too, I believe the fire cover has been reduced to Category 4 cover which means neither the Q400 or ATR 72 can operate from the airfield.

[Jerbourg]

Looking at CTV teletext earlier it looks likes as though Aurigny are operating their ATR72 LGW services from JER instead & ferrying pax to GCI by Trislander.


If BE get really pi**ed of I would not be surprised if they pull the plug on GCI & that would be a sad day for the island. Guernsey Airport could be run by chimps who would do a better job than the Civil Servants who currently "run" the operation.

[Ayline]

Are the airport firemen up to the job seeing as they seem to suffer a disportionate amount of sickness? When I think about my place of work, there is seldom any sickness - maybe just 1 or 2 days a year per person. The firemen are a disgrace to our island, they knew what the pay was before they took on the job and they are free like the rest of us to move jobs if they don’t like the pay and conditions. They obviously don’t care about the travelling public who pay their wages or the damage caused to the island as a whole. In the current climate they are lucky to have jobs. There many people in the UK who would dearly love to have a secure job such as they have. I am not a great fan of Flybe however I fully support Flybe on this. They went to the trouble of chartering an Aer Arann ATR-72 this weekend for the sole purpose of operating flights to/from Guernsey. Isn’t it convenient that the sickness has increased still further this weekend to the point where cover is down to CAT 4 resulting in ATRs being unable to operate. Maybe next weekend Flybe will charter a fleet of Jetstreams - if that happens watch out for even more sickness! Sack the lot of them I say.

[kuningan]

Ayline - while I have no sympathy for the firemen - I also wonder at how the States has let it get to this mess - they bribed the firemen with £1000 each as a 'temporary' measure so it could get resolved - but it hasn't been. Who is the politician responsible.....step forward Public Services Minister Mr Bernard "Golliwog" Flouquet....

[quazz]

I thought the Arann 72 was chartered by Aurigny as one of theirs is in for a check and another is out of action as some pratt in southampton reversed a truck into it. Or was that just earlier in the week?

[wakeup]

Maybe it is time for us to commute to Jersey for all flights, we would have better connections throughout the UK, and if they use trilanders and jet streams they could halve the number of firemen that are required and that would be job solved. The only down side would be the extra fare to go inter island, but maybe the airport could subsidise the cost (reduced passenger taxes) with the money saved from sacking the firemen who obviously don't appreciate having a job in this climate.

I detest people who are more then happy to sign a contract for a job, and then down the line decide they want more and hold us, (people who pay their wages) to ransom!:=

[hapzim]

If the firemen get any concessions from the airlines I hope these are removed, let them travel by boat....

[Helen49]

Trislander shuttle/Jetstream shuttle to Jersey and they can forget the £100 million runway project!!!

or, Privatise the airport fire service

or, privatise the whole Guernsey Airport shooting match!

Stupid firemen, they don't recognise a good deal when they see one!

Helen

[Ayline]

In response to quazz:
Aer Arann ATR-72 EI-REB was chartered by Aurigny to cover for G-BWDA whilst Aer Arann ATR-72 EI-REJ was chartered by Flybe to cover Q400 services. I hope that helps.

[quazz]

Cheers Ayline, busy week for Aranns charter fleet

[wakeup]

Excuse my ignorance, but if the airport fire service are not doing any over time, how can guernsey airport still be open to transfer passengers from Jersey?:confused:

[quazz]

I dont think they are obliged to stay but have probably been told that the entire island thinks they are a bunch of @rses and they should stay on as a sign of goodwill before the travelling public chases them up a tree and sets fire to it!

[BALLOO53]

Wakeup

In reply to your fire cover

The fire service in Guernsey last week dropped from Cat 6 to Cat 5 which stopped Dash 8 400 aircraft operating as it is Cat 6 fire cover aircraft.
Yesterday lunch time the fire cover catergory dropped to a Cat 4 which stopped the likes of the ATR 72 operating.
Guernsey are Cat 4 until lunch time today all being well when they will be back to normal operations providing all fireman for the afternoon turn up.
At least Aurigny had the option off Trislanders taking passengers to Jersey to pick up the ATR flight to Gatwick.
In doing this the Aurigny interisland operation was flying very late, keeping Jersey and Guernsey extended till 2300ish

[Geo73]

The Aurigny Bristol flight is being operated by two Trislanders today.

[JobsaGoodun]

I find it quite astounding that it has ever been allowed to get to the stage where this level of disruption is being experienced.

The whole situation is quite incredible!

[GBALU53]

There will be some good stories for the Local press tomorrow?

States Airport Firemen work to rule over staffing levels and screw up the States owned airline Aurigny as well ar Flybe.

This even had an effect on the paper plane this morning, Guernsey refused to accept the aircraft and had to return to Bournemouth although it is a Cat 4 fire cover aircraft so will they bill the States for the extra flying.

So no papers to start the morning in Guernsey as well.
What a mess when you live on a rock and only have the odd banana boat to get off when things go wrong at the airport.

[whatbolt]

In the old days they would have had horses or Donkeys to pull the Fire truck out - that would have save at least 4 men???? Seems like the old fashioned management trick of Carrot and stick approach has gone wrong?????

[Mrs Overall]

I noticed on Teletext's GCI arrivals this lunchtime a KLM flight from AMS.
Is this a one off flight or a series of summer charters?

[GBALU53]

The KLM Fokker 50 is just a one off charter so far, there could be more we hope.
Due to parking problems generated by the locals the airport can not accommadate to many night stoppers so unless you are an Aurigny aircraft or Flybe the extra night stoppers get sent over to jersey for the night,
This is not the first time this has happened, not so long ago a Swiss BAE146 was on a night stopper charter but said aircraft doing it went over to Jersey for parking what does that say for the Island???

[Geo73]

GBALU53

It gives the impression that Guernsey Airport is a "Mickey Mouse" operation.

Half the problem is the airport management, they have little or no interest in the aviation industry.

[tin canary]

So, just for the odd charter every now and again you think we should have push backs? Get real. The equipment required will cost money which will be passed onto the passenger - great when you consider the already high costs of taxes and charges. Also, when it is windy they won't necessarily be able to park nose-in, so it will all go for a ball of chalk then anyway! Leave it as it is.

[jerboy]

tin canary:

Correct, the money for the pushback tug will indeed be passed to the pax. But so, at present, would be the cost of ferrying the a/c over to JER, parking in JER, being pushed back in JER, and ferrying back to GCI in the morning. I would think that the cost of a single small tug for GCI isn't beyond the realms of the government coffers, and would perhaps make GCI look a more attractive destination for night stopping.

Changing parking positions due to the wind is quite an unusual occurrence. Ask the boys over in JER - happens on maybe 4 or 5 days a year?

[skiptoit]

I operate into and out of Guernsey daily and the parking set up is totally illogical! There is so much apron space wasted and for visiting crews the parking areas can be a nightmare to navigate. Nose in would make a lot of sense, and a secondhand pushback vehicle is not going to cost the earth. It just goes to prove how backward the thinking is within the airport management team.

[Geo73]

One thing that seems to be forgotten is that the new terminal was designed for nose in parking.

It's really about time airport management stood up to the airlines rather than being bullied by them.

[GBALU53]

skiptoit
You are correct what a mess the apron parking is.
Only four medium aircraft can park outside the building, two Dash 8s Flybe and 2 ATR72 of Aurigny, a number of times during the day they have to ask Jersey for certain aircraft to request start ups before coming from Jersey.
Last week Guernsey had a KLM Fokker 50 nightstop charter and due very limited parking the aircraft had to go to Jersey what sort of advert is that????. Guernsey get your act together or else you will not have an airport. Nose in parking and pusk backs have been required since the new building opened, due to a number of reasons did not happen, are you still in the dark ages??? the Guernsey States need to waken up from there slumber and get there act together before they are well and truely out of the game.

[tin canary]

Me thinks that you would need more than 1 tug, what with 4 a/c out between 7.00 and 7.10

Jerboy, i don't think you will find that parking into wind is only confined to 4 or 5 days a year. It could be that the a/c have more shelter with the pier, or because the jets aren't affected as much, but if you flew in and out of GCI you would know.

Yes, the airport was built for nose in parking, but not at the request of any of the airlines. And why should the costs be incurred for the odd Fokker 50 once in a blue moon?!:ugh:

[Jerbourg]

Fire cover is going to be reduced from Cat 6 to Cat 5 twice next week I hear, what's the betting the Bank Holiday will be one of the days.

[Guern]

Surprised it hasn't happened sooner to be honest!

The States really need to get this sorted with the Fireman it just makes us look daft! Busy trying to promote it as a tourist destinaion because of crap Euro rate but then people can't be sure they will get to travel.

Usual States of Guernsey SNAFU when it comes to organising anything! :ugh:

When will they learn!

[603DX]

With family in Guernsey I have been a frequent visitor to the island since the 1960's, by air and sea, with numerous airlines and shipping companies.

I love the place, but every now and again it has got its knickers in a twist over its travel links with the mainland. In the 70's the harbour workers, crane drivers and dockers, got stroppy over "pay and working conditions", messing about with the public in attempts to get what they wanted. Well, they got what they deserved, and eventually the "roll on/roll off" facility put a much-needed stop to that nonsense.

The current ill-tempered situation over fire cover has echoes of that type of dispute; according to the "Press" the union man says "this is not about pay" - yeah, right! We can all put our own spin on what it is about.

[quazz]

"this is not about pay"

Must be something more important. Maybe they don't like the colour of their fire engines :E

[Guern]

Whatever it is the Flybe flights are all cancelled as down to Cat 5 today!

[Saab2000 Freak]

It seems all flights in and out of Guernsey now, have been disrupted with the entire departures and arrivals boards for this evening showing all flights as delayed or diverted.

[wakeup]

You would have thought that this backward island would have come to its senses and pulled their finger out to sort this dispute out. The fire fighters should think themselves lucky that they have a job in this current climate, while at the same time this little rock is becoming the laughing stock of the british isles. Come to Guernsey where you can spend the pound, only if your flight can get there. What a joke the island is becoming.

[Geo73]

At approx 5pm yesterday fire cover was reduced to category 0.

The airport is still closed this morning.

[GBALU53]

The airport has not done them selves any favours with this getting this bad and having to close the airport.
What do the States of Guernsey think of this one??? it has been going on for far to long, from what I understand a year has gone by and no result very bad,where so no progrees at all on this,so what next go by boat??
This will not do any good for the little tourism that would have gone to Guernsey, they might go to big brother Jersey or little sister Alderney instead or even stay at home.

[603DX]

Well, it's all over now. At the cost of the PSRC resigning en masse, a petulant public argument between Bailiff and Chief Minister, a massive loss of respect for all involved, and a salary bill increased by £132,000 or so.

Not about pay? We shall see, perhaps - "A La Perchoine"?

[GBALU53]

At a meeting today between Aurigny and Blueislands bosses talked about a merger being mooted

Blue Island's Chairman Derek Coates wants his airline to merge with Aurigny.

He made his surprise announcement at a press conference infront of nearly 30deputies.

The States members were there to hear the opinions of the two bosses on proposals to relax air route licensing - both are against the idea and want the OUR to regulate the industry instead.

Derek Coates says States-owned Aurigny must go into private ownership in the future.

Aurigny boss Malcolm Hart says the suggestion had taken him by surprise, but he doubts if a merger will ever happen because the island will want to secure its lifeline slots at Gatwick.
Story and video of the conference at the following address

channelonline.tv (http://www.channelonline.tv/channelonline_guernseynews/DisplayArticle.asp?ID=427062)

[Ayline]

Well let's hope Mr. Coates doesn't get his way. What happens when Mr. Coates gets fed up of operating an airline and decides to sell out to Flybe.

[Cloud1]

I wouldn't worry Ayline, Flybe have bigger fish to fry and would not be interested in ATR's, Dorniers, Trislanders or Jetsteams;)

Should BCI not think about getting their business model right before merging with another airline. You need to ensure you have a good customer base and from what I have been hearing from BCI regulars is that they are getting fed up with the changes being implemented (schedule and business model.)

[BALLOO53]

Is there more to this story than what is out at the moment??
Aurigny and the States of Guernsey have been going through a bad patch and is this just testing the waters??or should one say the airwaves with a view of a partnership?
Both companies should be looking forward and this could be the best way to do this?
It is not the right time though doing this when the summer is half way through.
The bigger picture could be for 2010.

[Jerbourg]

DC & his lackies at the Healthspan group have little idea as to how to run a passenger airline properly, the the thought of them merging with Aurigny is scary to say the least. This proposed merger would not be good for Guernsey at all. If Aurigny is to be sold on I would hope it is sold to an business that has airline experience & can grow the airline.
Time will tell.

[macuser]

Anyone know what happened to a GR ATR-72 at Gatwick this morning? Heard a vehicle was in collision. Disrupted schedules big time, for sure.

[wakeup]

So what is this news about this new company? Is this the merger between Blue Islands and Aurigny? Or is a totally new outfit? Brave to start new services in this current climate!! Good luck to them, lets keep our fingers crossed!!!

[Feet on ground]

Where's that come from? Nothing on the web that I can find.

[quazz]

I don't think it's a merger. Blue Islands would have to buy Aurigny from the states, in which case the two airlines would probably still be called Blue Islands.

[skiptoit]

What a disaster that would be. Blue Islands can't even get one ATR in the air, heaven forbid adding Aurigny's to the mix!

[Jerbourg]

Blue ATR will be operating a proving flight in a fortnight I hear GCI-LCY!

[GBALU53]

skiptoit
Who are you to comment on Blueislands not able to get one ATR in the air?.
One has to look at the bigger picture, Aurigny has had a number of issues with there ATR fleet not only with the old but the new aircraft.
So before you can make some comment like you have done you should know the bigger picture.
Blueislands were only leaseing an ATR, things have not gone to plan at the moment, where as Aurigny operate the ATR and have a number of unservicable issues not only due to the updated ATRs in to the company going tech but un seen tech problems like handlers making holes in the side of aircraft which do not help.
Anyone would think you work for the airline after you last comment.??

[Jerbourg]

& maybe BALU works for Blue..?

[skiptoit]

GBALU53, maybe I am much more aware of the bigger picture than you would ever realise. It looks worse from the inside than it does from the outside, that's all I'm saying.

[337skymaster]

Are apparently backed by the American Global Group and will operate 6 ATR, 2 BAe 146's and 2 EMB145, to European destinations as well as a few select UK routes.

This Operation has nothing to do with Blue Islands or Aurigny.

Details are available through Aviation world.

Seems far fetched...........but hey anything can happen !!

[fudpucker]

Watching from afar, I wondered what Coates's exit strategy would be, I think he's just revealed it.

[quazz]

I don't think a merger would be Coates exit route, as any merger would have to involve Blue Islands purchasing Aurigny not the other way round. Surely the States are not stupid enough to buy another airline. hmmmm :}

[woofly31]

Does anyone have any further or concrete news regarding this new company? strange in this climate to jump into a market with 3 carriers already fighting it out on the islands. Also are Blue Islands looking to switch to an ATR fleet replacing the Jetstreams etc. :ok:

[Feet on ground]

Anybody know who the American Global Group are?

[airhumberside]

Amercian Global seem to be a freight shipping company

[tin canary]

When you say it looks worse from the inside than from the outside, are you talking about the company or the 'new' (very old) ATR42?

[Feet on ground]

The "new" ATR42 is only 23 years old, quite young compared to the average Trislander!

[tin canary]

Well yes, but they have all been re-winged and have done less hours! (Just a few more sectors)

[603DX]

A quick look at the "Teen Fakes Airline" thread in the Jet Blast forum should draw a very conclusive line under this "Channel Connect Airways" nonsense!