Guernsey

[nje1md]

G-DRFC has now been painted up in Blue Islands colours - looks pretty good for its age!!

G-DRFC ATR-42 arriving at Guernsey for the first time in Blue Islands colours on the 19th July, 2009 - the first ATR42 and the largest Blue Islands aircraft to date. :: G-DRFC ATR42 Blue Islands.jpg (http://www.biz-jets.com/p59690324.html)

[T67]

Looking good !! :D First of many I hope :)

[Saab2000 Freak]

Do we know what routes the ATR is going to be operating?

[Jerbourg]

Guernsey-Jersey initially & I expect eventually it will appear on the Southampton route too. London City is on the (distant) horizon so it (or a second machine) will no doubt appear there. Winter ski flights to Geneva are also planned for Foxtrot Charlie. Let's hope the machine is reliable as I don't know what Blue will do for back up if it goes mega tech.

[virginblue]

Let's hope the machine is reliable as I don't know what Blue will do for back up if it goes mega tech.

Hmmm, it's similarly aged sistership G-IONA is about to be scrapped, so if this is an indication :{

[quazz]

hmm a 23 year old ATR42 flying many short sectors a day, not so good for the pressure cycle count meethinks.
Also is G-IONA really about to be scrapped?? That was the younger of the two!

[virginblue]

That's at least what Jethros is reporting. According to his website, G-IONA ferried CVT-EDI in early June and is to be broken up.

As for it being younger than G-DRFC, it can only be a matter of months, with IONA being c/n 17 and DRFC c/n 7. Some of the oldest ATR42s still around.

On whose AOC is G-DRFC being operated? Apparently Atlantic Express surrendered its AOC earlier in the year.

[Jerbourg]

It will be on the Blue AOC I believe, hence the need for a proving flight with the CAA on board. This will take place in about 10 days time, Guernsey - Lon City.

[virginblue]

The LCY bit is interesting, I must say. Although if Blue Islands should really have plans for LCY in store, I wonder why they do not use the smaller Dornier 328. Not sure if GCI can fill an ATR42 if JER has difficulties filling a daily Fokker 50. But maybe the destination for the proving flight does not me anything anyway :eek:

By the way, does the ATR42 need some modifications for LCY ops? Or am I correct in remembering that said aircraft also operated for bmi on LBA-LCY and tuhs should be LCY capable anyway?:confused:

[xtypeman]

Its called the steep aproach mod to allow for the greater slope. Yes it would have been modifyed as where all the Air Wales fleet. However a one off flight to LCY seams strange as there is considerable training required before ops into LCY especially for a new operator.

[jijpc]

DRFC was used on Euromanx services a few years ago. I believe it may well have operated into LCY from IOM during that time.

[virginblue]

Did a quick search - G-DRFC is indeed the aircraft that was used by bmi for its short-lived LBA-LCY route.

Photos: ATR ATR-42-300 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/BMI-Regional/ATR-ATR-42-300/0814183/M/)

I don't think it ever operated for Euromanx on a regular basis as the Euromanx ATR42s were Dutch examples operated by TTA. The Euromanx ATRs also left before flights to LCY started (operated with Dash 8s). Maybe it has flown on an ad hoc basis for Euromanx. Let's wait and see what plans Blue Islands has - I don't think GCI-JER is an ideal route to be operated with an ATR42.

[Tonyq]

G-DRFC did fly for Euromanx on a fairly regular basis during the period when they were expanding too quickly, but had hardly any aircraft or crew of their own. I recall that it had a strange colour scheme at that time, with palm trees on the tail.

G-IONA was used by Euromanx to launch their LCY-IOM route (in 2005?)when they took over from BE and the promised RJ-70's hadn't arrived. It was around for several months.

[virginblue]

You are absoultely right. Just had a quick flip through new book on the history of Euromanx by Edwards/Lo Bao and it lists three Atlantic ATR42s and also an ATR72 as being operated for Euromanx at one point or the other. There is a nice picture of G-DRFC taking off from IOM. The "palm tree" livery on G-DRFC was a promotional livery for bmi's Caribbean services from MAN - for sure causing great enthusiasm at LBA where the ATR42 was based.

[Jerbourg]

Virginblue, I think the reason Jersey doed not do to well with its loods on the LCY route is due to timings of the scehdule. I think I am correct in saying it arrives in Jersey approx 1000 & departs at about 1700. This gives any businessman only about 5 hours at his desk allowing for travelling times to/from his office.

Maybe SI have a joint GCI-JER-LCY planned?

[jerboy]

VLM generally carry 20-30 pax on the JER-LCY service; not a massive load but their fares aren't overly cheap, especially for last minute bookings which is what the vast majority of bookings are.

Either way I doubt they'll carry on with the service when VLM get completely absorbed into AF/CityJet; I'm sure they won't take too kindly to an a/c sat in Jersey all day with an 'on duty' crew in a hotel.

I think a GCI-JER-LCY rotation would work, especially if VG/AF can the current service. Although not the direct link that Guernsey pax would prefer, it would make the service much more viable.

Is there potential LCY slot availability though to allow the service to operate at sensible times?

[virginblue]

VLM initially provided 3 (or even 4) roundtrips JER-LCY with a schedule that more or less was tailored around the requirements of business travellers. The once-daily off-peak flight is the result of this far more impressive schedule being cut back because of poor bookings. So it does not seem to be too likely that things would improve with a better schedule (although the facts that well-timed VLM-flights could now offer connections with other AF/KL flights and that the LHR service has disappeared might make the flights more attractive than in the past).

[Jerbourg]

Flybe have applied to the Guernsey licencing authority to operate:
Guernsey-Belfast
Guernsey-Newcastle
Guernsey-Edinburgh
I wonder if these will be direct routes or triangular via Jersey?

Good to see somebody wanting to open new routes from the island at last.

Go Flybe!

[J-Guy]

Belfast City (2x weekly) and Edinburgh (3x weekly) are already available on the Flybe booking agent. The schedules are as followed:

BE1211 BHD GCI 09:50 11:25 (W.)
BE1212 GCI BHD 11:50 13:20 (W.)

BE1211 BHD GCI 14:40 16:15 (Sa.)
BE1212 GCI BHD 16:40 18:10 (Sa.)

BE1194 EDI GCI 10:50 12:40 (Tu.)
BE1195 GCI EDI 13:05 14:45 (Tu.)

BE1194 EDI GCI 09:50 11:40 (Th.)
BE1195 GCI EDI 12:05 13:45 (Th.)

BE1194 EDI GCI 14:35 16:25 (Sa.)
BE1195 GCI EDI 16:50 18:30 (Sa.)

Newcastle is yet to be released, but none of the routes appear to be a triangular via Jersey. It is pleasing to see Guernsey finally receive some additional services, and backed by local tour operators, hopefully these routes will be successful. They are untapped markets from the Island so I would imagine that there should be good demand.

[macuser]

Anyone know why the GR flight Guernsey to STN today, went tech?

[bmaviscount]

Good to see Flybe reinstituting an evening 20.10 departure to LGW.
Was always a shame when the last chance out of the island was barely tea time!
Evening departures were last seen when BA were around

[603DX]

I notice that the States have recently advertised seeking 'Expressions of Interest' from consultancies, to provide a Project Manager for 'a £50 million+ pavements redevelopment project at Guernsey Airport'.

Presumably this means that decisions have now been taken regarding which of the various options is proposed. Does anyone know whether this includes any extension of runway length, or of the overrun lengths?

[tin canary]

Last i heard, they were going to leave the runway length the same, but effectively move it all to the west a bit to increase the safety area at east end.

[603DX]

Thanks. If this is what is eventually done, I feel it should improve safety margins for landings in the prevailing 27 direction, and this is presumably the main reason. I have always felt that La Villiaze Road seemed a liitle close to the threshold, when driving along it underneath incoming aircraft!

[PeteAndre]

You can see full details of the proposals on Guernsey Airport website: http://www.guernsey-airport.gov.gg/Airport%20Redevelopment%20-%20Public%20Presentation%20-%202%20July09.pdf

which gives a copy of the slides used at the public meeting. Option C was chosen, Deputy Kuttelwascher's plan, which displaces the runway to west and planes off mound rather than build it up, with consequent cost saving.

I believe final ratification will be required by the states once tenders have beenn received. Let's hope this doesn't go the same way as the Incinerator!

Pete Andre

[603DX]

Thank you for posting this link, it clarifies the options in sufficient detail to understand what was being considered and assessed. The 1463m runway of Option C looks sensible to me (retired consulting engineer), and it appears that the alternative Option C (1700m runway) with all work at the eastern end, was going to be very unpopular because of its effect on La Villiaze Road! Worth considering, but best forgotten now.

Regarding the Longue Houge incinerator project, the recent vote to drop it was a very close-run thing (21 for, 20 against), but I feel it is the right decision. 'Apples and Oranges', the runway work is crucial, burning rubbish is not.

[Geo73]

Does anyone have any news on this summers charter flights Cityjet (VLM), Lufthansa etc?

[Jerbourg]

No Lufthansa this year I hear.

[J-Guy]

Does anyone have any news on this summers charter flights Cityjet (VLM), Lufthansa etc?

CityJet are operating all the charter flights this summer - Rotterdam, Hannover and Frankfurt.

[macuser]

I see there are plans to close Guernsey Airport for a couple of days at a time during vital phases of the runway rebuild.

Just wondering if they might consider a helicopter link over to Jersey during these times to allow passengers to commute. There was a similar arrangement (in reverse) when Jersey rebuilt its runway in the mid-60s.

No, probably too simple a measure for politicians to consider!

[wakeup]

How come Jersey managed to resurface their runway and taxiways/stands without closing the runway during the day? Surely Guernsey could do the work overnight?

[PeteAndre]

Jersey's work involved only resurfacing an existing runway...similar to that recently performed at Bristol, a much simpler task. The proposals for GCI involve a basic re-positioning of the runway (to the west) and "shaving off" the high ground at the west threshold. It may be called resurfacing but it is really construction of a new runway (capable of extension to 5200 feet in the longer term) and able to serve Guernsey air traffic for the next 50 years. The inconvenience of closure, due to the need for provision of cross runway drainage, for a few days over the next 2/3 years pales into insignificance. What would you prefer..... a 3500 ft runway and all GCI travellers flying to Jersey first and then having to catch an interconnecting flight/boat to travel on to Guernsey?

I THINK NOT!!

[Aero Mad]

If the runway was extended would there be any chance of seeing the likes of Thomson, easyJet and Flybe 195s at Guern?

[quazz]

If the runway was extended would there be any chance of seeing the likes of Thomson, easyJet and Flybe 195s at Guern?
The short answer is no, no and yes.

Thomson and easyjet will look at the projected pax figures and run a mile.
You will always struggle to fill a 150 seater aircraft except at peak summer times.

[Aero Mad]

Surely with a bit of marketing Guernsey could achieve as well as Jersey? What with easyJet from Liverpool and formerly (:O) Thomson from Coventry e.t.c.?

[Jerbourg]

Aeromad, there is a market at GCI for the likes of Easyjet & Thomson all be it a limited one. The market is bringing people in to the island, not flying the small population out. With the right marketing & routes it could work. However Blue & Aurigny would squeal like pigs at the thought of a big player arriving on their patch. Flybe would I am sure welcome the competition.

[quazz]

Flybe would I am sure welcome the competition.

:} yeah right :}

[Feet on ground]

Jerbourg

are you talking about the same flybe that is squealing like a pig and throwing all of its' toys out of the pram because it has not been given the opportunity to buy Aurigny and wipe out the comptition on the Gatwick route?

The last thing flybe welcomes is competition, their whole strategy is to live under the low cost radar, using smaller aircrat on niches that avoid competing with them, and using their weight to "compete" with the smaller competition like Blue Islands/Eastern/ASW/Aurigny.

Open your eyes.

[Drink Up Thee Cider]

Shocking day yesterday, dozens of flights cancelled. I heard a whisper that the backlog of pax stuck in LGW, GCI and beyond might not be cleared til Weds. Anyone with more info? :(

[hapzim]

Aurginy got me out today, they even brought Titan 146 in to do some of the work :D

[jetstreamtechrecords]

whats the latest thoughts on the Aurigny/BI saga. Will it go to BI, will GR stay independant or will BE be allowed to bid and really spoil the party?

[J-Guy]

Just to note, Air Berlin will launch weekly Saturday flights from Dusseldorf and Hannover to Guernsey. Direct flights to Dusseldorf begin on 21st May, Hannover on 16th April via Jersey. I suspect the latter is supported by the German tour operators and will replace the CityJet charter.

It is good to see new routes for Guernsey and certainly Air Berlin has been successful on its route from Dusseldorf to Jersey over the last two summers. I travelled on the route during the summer with AB/LH and loads were strong with tourists – I was the only Jersey person onboard. But I hope the new German departure tax does not affect demand for the route too much.

[virginblue]

Noted that Aurigny has a token-operated hot beverage machine in the departure lounge as a shock & awe retaliation strategy against Blue Islands executive lounge (liked the sign on the glass wall next to the entrance to the gents that explains what sort of land of milk and honey is behind the tinted glass :-) ). Alas, how does one obtain a token? I was not offered one on check-in - do you have to ask for it?

[five zero by ortac]

Tokens available from the Aurigny check-in desk. However once you've had one cup out of that machine, you will never want another. Seriously has to be the worst coffee I've ever tasted. :yuk::yuk::yuk:

[virginblue]

Re the airberlin flights, DUS-GCI will be - unsurprsingly - on a Q400, whereas DUS-JER will be on an A319 (IIRC, they have used an Airbus 319 in the past to cover peak demand instead of the Q400)

[PeteAndre]

An interesting new press release on the proposed works is at http://www.guernsey-airport.gov.gg/EMAS_statement_final.pdf

The Pie Chart at the end is enlightening - where the money is going...a surprising small percentage to the runway. Does anyone have the same fear as me that the EMAS camp may get the works put back AGAIN.

On another topic..has anyone else noticed that the Plymouth flight is shown as Eastern Airways on the airport arrival screen. Looks like the ASW name has not got long!
Pete

[virginblue]

The airberlin Q400s will be on the ground at GCI on saturdays as follows:

1150 GCI 1225 (from Hanover to Jersey, starts 16APR)
1540 GCI 1615 (from Dusseldorf to Dusseldorf, starts 21MAY)

[Saab2000 Freak]

Has someone made an assumption that ASW no longer exists and its now simply Eastern?

With AirBerlin building up a range of routes quite successfully now in the islands, will they perhaps consider launching year round multiple weekly services to some of their destinations DUS, TXL?

[virginblue]

I really doubt it. It is strictly seasonal leisure traffic. They are serving lots of "exotic" islands destinations during the summer like Bornholm, Gotland, Jersey and Guernsey. Even Sylt, the German north sea island, only has a very limited winter schedule compared to the summer flights.

[jerboy]

On another topic..has anyone else noticed that the Plymouth flight is shown as Eastern Airways on the airport arrival screen. Looks like the ASW name has not got long!
Pete

Where did you see this? Was it just on the website or in the actual terminal building in GCI?

The original ASW flights are now operating with both SZ and T3 flight numbers, the T3 being a codeshare (they certainly are from JER and BRS anyway). It may be that the FIDS used on the Guernsey Airport website will only show the one flight number (which happens to be the T3 one), where as on the screens in the terminal building it will flick between the two... Just my guess!

Eastern have stated that ASW will retain its identity for the foreseeable. I doubt it'd be the best idea to get rid of the ASW branding and alienate many loyal pax in the region...

[Jerbourg]

I noticed last Friday that the screens in the GCI terminal show SZ as the flight prefix alongside the Eastern Airways logo whereas it used to be the ASW logo.

[603DX]

The 27 September press release is interesting, as PeteAndre says. With no prior experience of UK use of EMAS, no technical guidance to date from the CAA, and their apparent preference for safety zones where land is available, the omens do not look promising for "a change of horses" at this stage.

With regard to the cost breakdown illustrated by the pie chart, I estimate that very roughly one third of the total is for the actual runway work, with another third for the extensive work on the aprons, taxiways and renewal of the drainage system. Over half of the remaining third comprises allowances for design and construction contingencies and inflation, which seems reasonable provision for the unforeseen factors which can crop up during refurbishment/renewal work as opposed to "new build" work.

I don't know what is proposed for the Navaids, if this includes the ILS localisers, glideslope system and the DVOR beacon. Are these to be completely renewed with uprated equipment?

[Cloud1]

Where has it gone??

[Jerbourg]

GCI runway closed after a snow/hail shower. Tractors, yes tractors called in to clear it & have apparently made things worse by compacting the stuff. No night stops tonight I am thinking>

[Sark]

Oh dear!!

What is that 'media seeking' Airport Director Civil Servant going to say about this!

Privatisation is a real need.

[Jerbourg]

I bet he's removing his specs for the camera as I write this. Lol

[hapzim]

Whats happened to the nice new snow blade for the front of the tractor so as not to compact the snow by driving over?

[quazz]

Airport gets geared up to cope with ice News This Is Guernsey (http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2010/11/26/airport-gets-geared-up-to-cope-with-ice/)

yeah...working well so far!

[Saab2000 Freak]

Any news on next summers timetables by the airlines? we now know about Air Berlins Dusseldorf and Hannover, will VLM/Cityjet be returning on the Rotterdam and Frankfurt and what summer routes do Flybe have lined up?

[Geo73]

Cityjet/VLM is returning on the Frankfurt route for summer 2011.

It looks like the aircraft operating this flight will arrive from Rotterdam, operate the Frankfurt service and return to Rotterdam (this needs confirmation).

[PeteAndre]

Aurigny have installed a great new webcam covering the "aim point" of runway 09. It can be found at:

Aurigny Cam (http://www.aurignycam.com/gci.htm).com/gcihtm:D

This follows the closure of the Mondomundi shop in the terminal and hence thrir cam going off air.

[Geo73]

Just a shame that it's not a live video feed.

[PeteAndre]

Great news- 2 more cams at GCI - one overlooking the apron and eastern threshold from the terminal first flooor - the other covers the western end from a nearby rooftop. Clicking on the images causes a pop-up with a live feed.

The cams can be found on the Digimap site -

www.digimap.gg/webcams (http://www.digimap.gg/webcams)

[Geo73]

Excellent, thanks for the info Pete.

[Aero Mad]

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/61580000/jpg/_61580743_dsc_0100.jpg

[Jerbourg]

GCI's first Airbus & hopefully once the runway is completed we will see a few more!

[cobopete]

GEP states today that for summer 2018 Blue will be flying Rotterdam and Dusseldorf and Fly BE Zurich. All flights on Saturdays May to September. Discussions are ongoing with Aurigny on potential other routes. Any guesses?
Pete

[jijpc]

Loganair have been granted a licence to fly from Glasgow to GCI, presumably on summer weekends.

[Jerbourg]

So no European carriers at all this year it seems - things get worse every summer season.

[Planespeaking]

Ah for the days of Cityhopper with their F28s to Amsterdam when I worked at GCI airport in the 80s.

[kcockayne]

That was only 3 flights per week, via Jersey, summer only.

[virginblue]

So no European carriers at all this year it seems - things get worse every summer season.

Not correct:

https://www.eurowings.com/en/booking/offers/flights-from/DE/DUS/to/GB/GCI.html

[cobopete]

GEP carries correction to yesterday's article this morning stating that FlyBE will operate Dusseldorf and Blue the Zurich service......as last year. Euro wings are advertising Dus service but I think it is to be flown by FlyBE.
Pete

[canberra97]

Düsseldorf to Guernsey flights are to be operated by LGW Dash 8's under the Eurowings brand name and are not flown by Flybe.

[virginblue]

As per Eurowings:

11:50 AM 2:25 PM Guernsey (GCI) Dusseldorf (DUS) 01:35h EW 9381
Flight is operated by LGW DASH Q400
Eurowings flights from 05/05/2018 to 01/09/2018.

Nice destination page, btw, on the Eurowings website: https://www.eurowings.com/en/booking/offers/flights-to/-GB/GCI.html

Even on a saturday, the late morning departure from and early afternoon arrival into DUS should allow for some useful connections.

Maybe BE will operate as well? I think there were times in the past when both a German and a British airline operated to/from the Channel Islands and as, thanks to the devaluation of the pound, holidaying in GBP-land has become cheaper for Germans, there could be additional demand in 2018 justifying two weekly flights? (although - correct me if I am wrong - I was under the impression that generally the channel islands are no longer as popular as they were in the past with Germans)

[Planespeaking]

They were a very popular destination for the Germans in the 1940s if I remember correctly!

[virginblue]

I was thinking about services to/from DUS on British Airways Budgies or Brymon Dash 7s in the 1990s, not so much about earlier paradropping services on Ju52s...

[kcockayne]

Looking back, I was an ATCO at Jersey at that time - I can't remember which a/c were used on the German services. Was it really BAW 748/ATPs & BRY DH7s ? I'm not sure. I remember EWG & NFD with AT42/72. And DLH with B735/737s & BA146s - but I'm not sure of the decades involved. I look forward to any further enlightenment on the subject !

[ajdm]

My recollection is of DLT F50s

[kcockayne]

We also had the Delta Air Saab 340s for a couple of years at Jersey. I don’t think that they visited Guernsey, though. It was at the time that BAW took over Delta - & the airline became Deutsch BA.

[Jerbourg]

I can recall Delta Air/Deutshe BA, RFG, NFD, Eurowings, DLT, Lufthansa, Brymon, Air Berlin, Contactair & Flybe operating German services in the last twenty or so years. . .

[Geo73]

and Augsburg Airways.

[kcockayne]

Yes, I think that these replies pretty much sum up the airlines that operated these routes. But, I still can't remember BAW doing so.

[Jerbourg]

Yes, I think that these replies pretty much sum up the airlines that operated these routes. But, I still can't remember BAW doing so.



They did a summer charter one year with ATP's but I think it may have been from GLA.

[virginblue]

Excuses if I have caused confusion. I was commenting based on my recollection of saturday afternoons on the observation deck at Dusseldorf. BA 748s and ATPs and Brymon Dash 7s were the highlight of those saturdays. Admittedly, I do not recall if they indeed operated also to Guernsey or "just" to Jersey.

[canberra97]

You definitely caused a bit of confusion on here!

I'm assuming that your time on the observation deck at Düsseldorf was in the 1990's if so the British Airways HS748 was a very common visitor to the airport as they were flying on British Airways internal German flights at the time and were primarily based at Berlin Templehof and other German airports such as Munster.

[Wycombe]

I notice that a Titan A320 has just alighted in GCI operating for AUR - a fairly rare occurence and covering for the Embraer one assumes?

Update: AUR100P currently en-route back to GCI from KTW, presumably following maint. Answered my own question!

[cobopete]

Spot on Wycombe.........xtra flights out of GCI today for Spring half term hols.

[GCILover]

Now that Guernsey has been granted "open skies" it will be interesting to see what lies ahead. I really hope that travel and tourism sees a massive improvement at a cost that we can all afford to enjoy

[kcockayne]

Now that Guernsey has been granted "open skies" it will be interesting to see what lies ahead. I really hope that travel and tourism sees a massive improvement at a cost that we can all afford to enjoy
I tend to think that this decision will have absolutely no, or very little, effect on Guernsey air services. As far as I know, there is not a queue of airlines waiting to operate to Guernsey , & being prevented from doing so by anti-competitive legislation. It might have been a different story if the “open skies policy” had included Gatwick. But, there was absolutely no chance of that happening as it would have had a seriously detrimental impact on Guernsey’s “national”, & States’ owned airline, Aurigny - being their one & only route which makes a profit ( I think). However, I could be wrong. What do other people think ?

[virginblue]

I tend to think that this decision will have absolutely no, or very little, effect on Guernsey air services. As far as I know, there is not a queue of airlines waiting to operate to Guernsey , & being prevented from doing so by anti-competitive legislation. It might have been a different story if the “open skies policy” had included Gatwick. But, there was absolutely no chance of that happening as it would have had a seriously detrimental impact on Guernsey’s “national”, & States’ owned airline, Aurigny - being their one & only route which makes a profit ( I think). However, I could be wrong. What do other people think ?

As there are hardly any airlines left that could serve with turboprops or small regional jets, I suppose very little will happen.

[AirportPlanner1]

To be fair it’s not just that it’s the most ‘profitable’ route, it would harm the island if it ended up being undermined by someone coming in with lower fares but an erratic schedule, or get dropped altogether. Look at IOM as an example. Should anything happen good luck getting peak slots elsewhere in London, especially somewhere with some decent connections.

[Jerbourg]

SOUR GRAPES:
As a result of the 'Open Skies' decision made by the States of Guernsey yesterday, Blue Islands have already announced a cut in their schedules with effect from the winter timetable. As for moving the aircraft to more profitable routes can DC tell us what these routes are? This is a joke, as all it means is that the aircraft will spend longer on the ground - I cannot see that JER to BRS/LCY are big moneyspinners & as they have act Flybe on the JER-SOU route too they are as in such competition with them & DC doesn't like competition. A few months ago Blue were after operating GCI-BRS against Aurigny but were refused a licence, now we have Open Skies what's now stopping them from doing?

It seems to me that the threat of competition (which will never arrive) is a good excuse to start winding down the airline - DC's ego (and wallet) have until now always kept it afloat, now he has the excuse he needs... Blue have never been that popular with the local community, but sadly there is no other choice if you want to fly to SOU or JER.

https://gsy.bailiwickexpress.com/gsy/news/blue-islands-cut-flights/#.W1Ie3dJKjIV

[kcockayne]

A lot of what you say is correct, Jerbourg. Blue Island seems to be about as profitable as AUR ie not ! This certainly gives Derek an excuse to wind it up ; or downsize it; & save himself an awful lot of money ! I agree, what “more profitable routes” can Blue Island possibly find ? Jersey to London City & Bristol are certainly not money spinners - & that is the point of why “Open Skies” is likely to fail.
Airport Planner 1 makes a good, & true, point. In fact, this was the justification for the States to buy AUR in the first place ie protect the Gatwick slots.
virginblue makes an essential point when he says that there is a very distinct lack of airlines with the right equipment for Guernsey routes. But, this is why there is the push to extend the runway from some quarters in Guernsey. But, these people ignore the fact that what determines the amount of destinations & frequency of operations from Guernsey is the DEMAND. Guernsey people (of which I am one) look at Jersey & Easyjet. They think that all that they have to do to get the same number of destinations & cheap fares is get EZY or RYR in (by extending the runway for them). They ignore the fact that there is not the level of demand to attract these airlines.
Guernsey’s population is around 65,000 & falling; Jersey’s is 105,000 & rising. Jersey’s holiday industry is larger than Guernsey’s. These factors mitigate against Guernsey getting the same level of services & destinations as Jersey. I understand the dream of Guernsey residents but, it ain’t gonna happen. You could expand the tourism industry in Guernsey to stimulate demand for air services, but there are not the hotel bed space to counter for a big increase in visitors.
All in all, it is time for Guernsey folk to face reality.

[EI-BUD]

I think Guernsey can take a lot of example from IOM, I.e. learnings, maybe roads not to go down. Small island communities need connectivity, commuter type ac are best placed.. extending the runway may not the long term greater good of the island. In my opinion..

[Gurnard]

A lot of what you say is correct, Jerbourg. Blue Island seems to be about as profitable as AUR ie not ! This certainly gives Derek an excuse to wind it up ; or downsize it; & save himself an awful lot of money ! I agree, what “more profitable routes” can Blue Island possibly find ? Jersey to London City & Bristol are certainly not money spinners - & that is the point of why “Open Skies” is likely to fail.
Airport Planner 1 makes a good, & true, point. In fact, this was the justification for the States to buy AUR in the first place ie protect the Gatwick slots.
virginblue makes an essential point when he says that there is a very distinct lack of airlines with the right equipment for Guernsey routes. But, this is why there is the push to extend the runway from some quarters in Guernsey. But, these people ignore the fact that what determines the amount of destinations & frequency of operations from Guernsey is the DEMAND. Guernsey people (of which I am one) look at Jersey & Easyjet. They think that all that they have to do to get the same number of destinations & cheap fares is get EZY or RYR in (by extending the runway for them). They ignore the fact that there is not the level of demand to attract these airlines.
Guernsey’s population is around 65,000 & falling; Jersey’s is 105,000 & rising. Jersey’s holiday industry is larger than Guernsey’s. These factors mitigate against Guernsey getting the same level of services & destinations as Jersey. I understand the dream of Guernsey residents but, it ain’t gonna happen. You could expand the tourism industry in Guernsey to stimulate demand for air services, but there are not the hotel bed space to counter for a big increase in visitors.
All in all, it is time for Guernsey folk to face reality.

Good points. It would surely be more advantageous for Guernsey to benefit from Jersey's longer runway and better services and see it as a hub. For that to happen there needs to be a decent inter-island service so that folks can travel with ease between the islands. The States of Guernsey should encourage this by allowing Aurigny to take up the route again and cut their charges to the benefit of the passenger whose connection via Jersey should be highly subsidised.

[kcockayne]

Good points. It would surely be more advantageous for Guernsey to benefit from Jersey's longer runway and better services and see it as a hub. For that to happen there needs to be a decent inter-island service so that folks can travel with ease between the islands. The States of Guernsey should encourage this by allowing Aurigny to take up the route again and cut their charges to the benefit of the passenger whose connection via Jersey should be highly subsidised.
I entirely agree with you, Gurnard. But, you have to admit that it is galling for Guernsey people to have to travel via Jersey. In any case, this is not very attractive, as it adds quite a time to the overall journey time. What is the answer to Guernsey residents’ demand for the travel opportunities which they see available to Jersey residents ? I don’t think that there is one !
in any event, extending Guernsey’s runway would be a massive waste of money &, if it did attract EZY or RYR, it would mean the end of AUR (& the certainty of retaining the Gatwick service); & the frequency of this service would be reduced , & the future of it open to question.

[Gurnard]

I entirely agree with you, Gurnard. But, you have to admit that it is galling for Guernsey people to have to travel via Jersey. In any case, this is not very attractive, as it adds quite a time to the overall journey time. What is the answer to Guernsey residents’ demand for the travel opportunities which they see available to Jersey residents ? I don’t think that there is one !
in any event, extending Guernsey’s runway would be a massive waste of money &, if it did attract EZY or RYR, it would mean the end of AUR (& the certainty of retaining the Gatwick service); & the frequency of this service would be reduced , & the future of it open to question.
All your points are true. Yes - a massive waste of money to extend Guernsey's runway, not to mention a loss of some precious space. What would it achieve? Frequent EZY or RYR flights to some popular destination? Highly unlikely. Services to Guernsey are not likely to improve. Already DC has made it clear that BlueIslands will be cutting services over the winter. Galling for Guernsey folk to have to hop over to Jersey to catch a flight - yes - but it might be the lesser of two (or more) evils. A States of Guernsey sponsored regular service between the islands could save time, and extra pax to fill aircraft in and out of Jersey would be advantageous to the carriers serving Jersey. Sea passengers have been prepared to tolerate stopping off in Guernsey as the ferry makes its way from Jersey to the UK for yonks. With time air travellers might be prepared to route via Jersey if the schedule and fares are reasonable.

[rog747]

in which case would it make more sense to operate a GCI-JER air shuttle to connect there or is JER capacity at its limits?

[jensdad]

I'm not that familiar with the CI air transport scene, but a fairly regular holiday visitor to the islands.

Last time I was at GCI I was surprised by the small number of inter-island flights. Did Aurigny not used to have a more-or-less hourly shuttle, or is that my memory playing tricks?

[Planespeaking]

I'm not that familiar with the CI air transport scene, but a fairly regular holiday visitor to the islands.

Last time I was at GCI I was surprised by the small number of inter-island flights. Did Aurigny not used to have a more-or-less hourly shuttle, or is that my memory playing tricks?
I lived in Guernsey from 1980 to 1986, Aurigny used to operate an hourly and sometimes half hourly schedule between the islands using Islanders Trilanders and Twin Otters.

[cumbrianboy]

Be careful what you wish for, Open Skies on the Isle of Man has led to a huge reduction in connectivity and direct air services and generally poor provision.

The IOM is well connected to Manchester (because that suits FlyBE) and Liverpool for the hospital route because it is government backed, but everything else (apart from Dublin) is poor.

Belfast twice a week, Gatwick often only once a day, Scotland twice a week, Bristol twice a week.

It's a royal pain in you live on the Island and stifles economic growth as people just can't get on and off the island and you can't attract a skill set here as they can't get home to visit family etc ..

Open skies is perfect if you're Heathrow or Gatwick, it's a disaster for small island communities ...

[kcockayne]

in which case would it make more sense to operate a GCI-JER air shuttle to connect there or is JER capacity at its limits?
Jersey is way below it’s limits. In the 70s & 80s it handled up to 500+ movements each weekend day - most of them commercial. Nowadays you are lucky if you get to 200 ! In those times, AUR used to operate up to 50 flights each way between the two islands. How times have changed. Now, the inter island service is around 5 flights per day with ATR & DH8-400. Inter island pax levels have fallen dramatically. I don’t think that having to travel via Jersey would have much appeal to Guernsey people. They’d much rather moan about their lot, instead !

[rog747]

Jersey is way below it’s limits. In the 70s & 80s it handled up to 500+ movements each weekend day - most of them commercial. Nowadays you are lucky if you get to 200 ! In those times, AUR used to operate up to 50 flights each way between the two islands. How times have changed. Now, the inter island service is around 5 flights per day with ATR & DH8-400. Inter island pax levels have fallen dramatically. I don’t think that having to travel via Jersey would have much appeal to Guernsey people. They’d much rather moan about their lot, instead !

thanks - well I should remember I worked for BMA and we sent vast squadrons of most of our viscounts and DC9's to JER every Sat & Sun weekend lol

[kcockayne]

thanks - well I should remember I worked for BMA and we sent vast squadrons of most of our viscounts and DC9's to JER every Sat & Sun weekend lol
How well I remember ! Happy days, sadly long gone. Do you remember Malcolm Cumming (VC8, DC9, FK27 & B707) ?

[virginblue]

So what exactly is Blue Islands up to? Reading between the lines, it sounds like cutting mid-day departures to JER and SOU during the winter and - depending on competition on those routes showing up - also during the summer. As the only airlines that sould realistically operate GCI-SOU seasonally are Flybe and Aurigny which is not a very likely scenario, we are looking at winter season cut-backs. If there is no demand for mid-day flights to SOU and JER in the winter, there will probably be not more demand for flights to any other destination anyway. The only remotely possible option could be a "fare-cracker" of IOM-fame style flight to a London airport - but with LGW still subject to licencing, no slots at LHR, no suitable aircraft for LCY (too expensive anyway) and Aurigny already on STN, LTN would be the only logical gateway for such an endeavour. So in the end, the aircraft will just sit idle on the ground at GCI unless they would do two morning flights to SOU and find woork for the aircraft from there (in conjunction with Flybe) before it returns to GCI in the evening.

[Planespeaking]

[QUOTE=virginblue;10204577]So what exactly is Blue Islands up to? Reading between the lines, it sounds like cutting mid-day departures to JER and SOU during the winter and - depending on competition on those routes showing up - also during the summer. As the only airlines that sould realistically operate GCI-SOU seasonally are Flybe and Aurigny which is not a very likely scenario, we are looking at winter season cut-backs. If there is no demand for mid-day flights to SOU and JER in the winter, there will probably be not more demand for flights to any other destination anyway. The only remotely possible option could be a "fare-cracker" of IOM-fame style flight to a London airport - but with LGW still subject to licencing, no slots at LHR, no suitable aircraft for LCY (too expensive anyway) and Aurigny already on STN, LTN would be the only logical gateway for such an endeavour. So in the end, the aircraft will just sit idle on the ground at GCI unless they would do two morning flights to SOU and find woork for the aircraft from there (in conjunction with Flybe) before it returns to GCI in the

London Southend is proving very popular with pax and is attracting new carriers. It has a brand new terminal and a dedicated train station just two minutes walk from the terminal with up to eight trains an hour to London. Flybe/Stobart have based aircraft so it could offer another London option.

[AirportPlanner1]

Interesting suggestion...with the introduction of FR onto SEN-DUB it’s actually probable that Stobart will have an E195 with nothing to do...

[cobopete]

Interesting suggestion...with the introduction of FR onto SEN-DUB it’s actually probable that Stobart will have an E195 with nothing to do...


Where are they going to find 125ish PAX to fill the flight? Capacity exists at Stansted and Gatwick..............remember they couldn’t make LCY pay and the route was dropped. GCI only has a population of 60k, and there already are 600 ish seats a day from London to the island.
CAA Stats show approx 32k pax to and from the island and London in May.

[AirportPlanner1]

It’s pie in the sky, but there is an opportunity there. If they overnighted in GCI, which is something they do, they could have a decent market providing a cheaper option to GR to London. Plus potentially stimulate some additional traffic. And they do some connections.

[kcockayne]

It’s pie in the sky, but there is an opportunity there. If they overnighted in GCI, which is something they do, they could have a decent market providing a cheaper option to GR to London. Plus potentially stimulate some additional traffic. And they do some connections.
This is where the contradiction kicks in. The States of Guernsey own AUR in order to protect the Gatwick slots. That is why Gatwick is not included in “Open Skies”. The States bail out AUR to the tune of £5m every year. They are not going to stand aside & watch as another airline takes a bite out of AUR’s income from its only profitable route - Gatwick. Even if the airline doing the biting is operating from a different London airport.
The bottom line is that there is NOT the demand in Guernsey, because of the island’s small population, to sustain an alternative operation to London by competing with AUR’s Gatwick service. IF a viable alternative service is operated, it will kill AUR’s Gatwick service - & the slots will be lost. But, before that happens, “Open Skies” will quickly go out of the window !

[ajdm]

I see a weekly EDI flight for S19 has appeared on the Loganair website. Looks like a EMB135.

[Jerbourg]

Great news, Looks like they had a good 2018 with the GLA service then.
After all these years this will be GCI's first scheduled Emb 135/145 service, although BA Express did operate 1/2 odd flights many years back.

[Jerbourg]

Is anything known as yet re summer 19 flights/operators from mainland Europe?

[cobopete]

As far as I can see summer Saturday flights will include-

Time. From Airline. Remarks
1120. EDI. Loganair. New for 19
1210. BOU. Loganair New for 19
1420. LPL. FlyBe/BI. New for 19, also on Tues
1510. Southend. FlyBe/BI New for 19, daily
1645 GLA. Loganair
1755. JER/Zurich. FlyBe/BI Flies JER-GCI-ZUR-JER-GCi
1810. Düsseldorf. Eurowings
TBD. Düsseldorf FlyBe. Not yet confirmed
TBD. Cardiff. FlyBe Not yet confirmed

Sunday’s

1210 Norwich. Aurgny
TBD. Rotterdam Blue Islands. 22 ApriL to 15 Sept timing TBC
TBD. Groningen Blue Islands. 28 April to 23 June - new this year, timing TBC

[Jerbourg]

Thanks CoboPete

[KindaUnstuck]

Looking at the Sunair website who traditionally underwrite (I hope that is the right word) the cost of the Dutch charters it looks like both Rotterdam (starts 21 April) and Gronigen (starts 28 April) will operate on Sundays this year

[cobopete]

Thanks Kinda
Pete

[jensdad]

The Visit Guernsey facebook page is reporting that flybe are starting a Heathrow service starting March 31st :)

[Cazza_fly]

This new route will operate the following service between 31 March - 26 October

Depart Guernsey 1440 - Arrive Heathrow 1545
Depart Heathrow 1720 - Arrive Guernsey 1825

Operated by 78-seat Bombardier Q400 aircraft, seats are available for booking now on the Flybe website.

https://www.visitguernsey.com/magazine/flybe-announces-daily-heathrow-guernsey-airlink/ (http://This new route will operate the following service between 31 March - 26 October Depart Guernsey 1440 - Arrive Heathrow https://www.visitguernsey.com/magazine/flybe-announces-daily-heathrow-guernsey-airlink/)

[toscana24]

Re GCI/LHR/GCI - a good development (if Flybe actually still exist then etc) but the timing is a problem. Arrival time at LHR for an evening connection is excellent but the return leg is hopeless for a morning arrival at LHR and crucially arrives too late in Guernsey for a connection to Alderney, Herm or Sark (NB the Visit Guernsey crowd are there to promote tourism to all the Balliwick not just the Guernsey Island). It would have been better to "hijack" an ABZ aircraft in the middle of the day and do GCI and back.

[virginblue]

Not bad. Six new routes for 2019, if I am not mistaken:

Blue Islands to NQY, SEN, LPL, Loganair to GLA and BOH, Flybe to LHR.

[cobopete]

Not forgetting BI to Groningen!
Pete

[kcockayne]

Let’s see how many of them last beyond one season. The Heathrow service is a coup for Guernsey & will have a good few people in Jersey very envious. But, as has been said, the timings are not good for connecting with EGLL arrivals & departures ; & are certainly useless for business travelers. Then there is the effect that the route will have on the Guernsey - Gatwick services. I can’t imagine that it will have EZY champing at the bit to open a service on this route (assuming that a possible runway extension at Guernsey would turn their head).

[jijpc]

A coup? The service is being subsidised to the tune of £825,000 according to Guernsey Press. Quite an incentive for Flybe.

[kcockayne]

A coup? The service is being subsidised to the tune of £825,000 according to Guernsey Press. Quite an incentive for Flybe.
Yes, but in terms of inter island politics, pride & bragging rites Guernsey now has a Heathrow service - & Jersey hasn't. Also, Guernsey has been able to get a slot at Heathrow - which isn't easy. So, somewhat of a coup, wouldn't you say ? Overall, you have to realise that it is summer only, once a day - at a time that is not convenient for anyone who might be tempted to use the service either for connections or business travel; & there is a very large contradiction between Guernsey States subsidising their wholly owned carrier (Aurigny) & a major competitor (Flybe). One has to ask whether they are fully aware of what they will achieve by this move. Nevertheless, I wish them well & hope that both the Heathrow & Gatwick services will be successful.

[bmaviscount]

Guernsey is getting lots of new routes this year, SEN NQY and now LHR. I hope they are all sustainable !

Shame LHR is not twice daily

Still miss LCY!

Still remeber Air UK using its F50 and Bae146 on the LHR route

[SWBKCB]

A coup? The service is being subsidised to the tune of £825,000 according to Guernsey Press.

Are my maths crap or is that nearly £30 per seat?

[aurigny72]

Guernsey is getting lots of new routes this year, SEN NQY and now LHR. I hope they are all sustainable !

Shame LHR is not twice daily

Still miss LCY!

Still remeber Air UK using its F50 and Bae146 on the LHR route
Dont forget also LPL, EDI and BOH. With flights now to 4 different London airports makes one wonder if they will all be sustainable, bit surprised that the new SEN route will operate daily but hope it works well as its such a quick and easy small airport to get through, unlike Stansted which is now so busy plus that awful shopping mall to get through after security.

[Jerbourg]

A friend watching the pax board the first Flybe LHR flight on the airport webcam says the total load looked to be about 25/30, if he's right it's not the best start.
(If I'm wrong please correct me).

[mullac30]

A friend watching the pax board the first Flybe LHR flight on the airport webcam says the total load looked to be about 25/30, if he's right it's not the best start.
(If I'm wrong please correct me).
Well if its the inaugural, that means that there are only outbound passengers on the flight (ie no-one returning to GCI) so it makes sense that the flight is only half full .

[FFHKG]

And it's also a Sunday so not likely to have many business travellers

[mmeteesside]

I don’t suppose Flybe / Stobart / Virgin will be that bothered anyway, they’re getting paid to run it and it’s using a slot that would otherwise be lost, and worth a lot of £££. Any money they get in revenue is a bonus.

[JobsaGoodun]

The route was put on sale quite late without much lead in time to sell so it’s perhaps no surprise that loads are quite light. I expect this will change in time and loads should improve.

[Hermite]

A friend watching the pax board the first Flybe LHR flight on the airport webcam says the total load looked to be about 25/30, if he's right it's not the best start.
(If I'm wrong please correct me).

From looking at the GÇI webcam, the LHR-GCI flight had on the top side of 30 passengers.

[KindaUnstuck]

May just be a glitch but whilst trying to book a flight at the end of July I notice the GCI-BHX timings change back to more traditional times for the afternoon flight so I'm wondering if the aircraft to operate the Heathrow route will be coming into the island from elsewhere as we move further into the summer schedule

[Jerbourg]

Well if its the inaugural, that means that there are only outbound passengers on the flight (ie no-one returning to GCI) so it makes sense that the flight is only half full .

People do actually fly to GCI that live elsewhere you know, If you apply your logic BA would only carry outbound UK citizens on their flights from LHR!

[kcockayne]

I don't think that we can read too much into the pax loads, yet. It is still early days. But, maybe Heathrow is not quite as popular nowadays to the Guernsey traveller as it used to be. Certainly, Jersey politicians are wary of the possible repercussions on the Gatwick service of having a Heathrow route. More concerning is the revelation that BEE are only" baby sitting" these slots at Heathrow (on behalf of Delta/Virgin). The likelihood is that . as soon as the parent airline wants to use them for their flights, Guernsey will lose them - & bye bye Heathrow. & the States £850k !
As I said before, you couldn't make all of this up !

[Tonyq]

I don't think that we can read too much into the pax loads, yet. It is still early days. But, maybe Heathrow is not quite as popular nowadays to the Guernsey traveller as it used to be. Certainly, Jersey politicians are wary of the possible repercussions on the Gatwick service of having a Heathrow route. More concerning is the revelation that BEE are only" baby sitting" these slots at Heathrow (on behalf of Delta/Virgin). The likelihood is that . as soon as the parent airline wants to use them for their flights, Guernsey will lose them - & bye bye Heathrow. & the States £850k !
As I said before, you couldn't make all of this up !

If the politicians in the Isle of Man are telling the truth (and that can't be taken as read!), the IOM is not paying FlyBe anything for the equivalent LHR service, which should also cause some questions to be asked in Guernsey!

[wakeup]

It is all in Guernseys desperation to try an attract more tourists. Not only are the timings pretty rubbish in the grand scheme of things once you have all your baggage paid for there is very little in it as opposed to flying via Gatwick. It will become a total farce when Fog hits the Islands or LHR, it will be the first route to get the chop being classed as domestic!!!

Sorry to say this is just a white Elephant that will disappear at the end of the summer season and the only people out of pocket will be the Guernsey Government!!

What are the loads like?

[Planespeaking]

It is all in Guernseys desperation to try an attract more tourists. Not only are the timings pretty rubbish in the grand scheme of things once you have all your baggage paid for there is very little in it as opposed to flying via Gatwick. It will become a total farce when Fog hits the Islands or LHR, it will be the first route to get the chop being classed as domestic!!!

Sorry to say this is just a white Elephant that will disappear at the end of the summer season and the only people out of pocket will be the Guernsey Government!!

What are the loads like?

There is now the new Blue Islands route to London Southend. Who knows!

[kcockayne]

There is now the new Blue Islands route to London Southend. Who knows!


I am not expecting that one to last too long, either. What Guernsey, & it’s government, do not consider is the comparative lack of demand which exists. This is not a big market. They envy Jersey with its EZY fares & think that they can get the same, if only they can extend the runway & get EZY in - completely ignoring the fact that EZY are either not interested or, would only operate a max. of 2 flights per day. And, if they did, completely clear out Guernsey’s state airline, Aurigny, in the process.

[Feet on ground]

If the politicians in the Isle of Man are telling the truth (and that can't be taken as read!), the IOM is not paying FlyBe anything for the equivalent LHR service, which should also cause some questions to be asked in Guernsey!

I have it on very good authority that IOM have not contributed anything other than the airport discounts normally attracted by new routes. It will be interesting to see what happens as we get nearer the winter and Virgin/Delta decide what slots they need to use and what need to be "sat on" for longer, I guess if only one pair need sat on, then they will go to the highest (or only) bidder. With LHR slots achieving sale prices in the tens of millions, there surely cannot be a long term future for single daily (or any other frequency) services between LHR and the IOM or GCI, other than where they are increasingly subsidised.

[virginblue]

I seem to remember that after the Air UK drama there wwas talk whether Guernsey - instead of an airline - could own slots at LHR in order to safeguard them from getting sold off by a greedy airline,

[Jerbourg]

I seem to remember that after the Air UK drama there wwas talk whether Guernsey - instead of an airline - could own slots at LHR in order to safeguard them from getting sold off by a greedy airline,

And the answer was no I seem to recall, which is why the Guernsey government purchased an airline.

[kcockayne]

Yes, & now they are giving £850k to a competitor airline so that it can take pax away from their “state owned airline” by operating a competing service which looks like it will only run that service until the parent airline wants its slots back !
More than that, certain elements of the political class, who spent taxpayers’ money on buying AUR now want to spend millions on a runway extension designed to get a LCC operating further (unbeatable) competition for AUR on the London route . Amazing stuff ! Only in Guernsey (& I say that as a , bemused, Guernseyman !).

[Aero Mad]

certain elements of the political class, who spent taxpayers’ money on buying AUR now want to spend millions on a runway extension designed to get a LCC operating further (unbeatable) competition for AUR on the London route . Amazing stuff ! Only in Guernsey (& I say that as a , bemused, Guernseyman !).

Behind the populist rhetoric of a 'political class' (a silly enough idea in the UK and a frankly ludicrous one in Guernsey), I think you'll find that most of the members who want a longer runway weren't even on the States in 2003. Economic Development are adamant that they offered the route to Aurigny and the Flybe offer was 'cheaper and more resilient'. Like you I think subsidising a competitor - especially to the tune of ~£66 a seat when you include lost revenue for Aurigny - but it's worth reading the statement.

https://twitter.com/RobMooreGsy/status/1100030111309545472

[cobopete]

Sad to see that FlyBe’s availability of E195 and E175s formed part of the decision to award the route to them when within a week of the start of the service they have announced their intention to dispose of the types!
Pete

[kcockayne]

Just how is BEE’s offer going to be more resilient than AUR’s, when BEE will only have the slots used for the service until VIR/DAL want them back so as to operate a new service to the USA (next year)? For that matter, where were AUR going to get their slots for the EGLL service from ? Whilst I do have some admiration for the States trying to get this route back, I do feel that they have lost sight of the realities of Guernsey’s situation & should have researched the background to BEE’s situation & offer ; as well as demonstrating some support (other than bailing AUR out annually) to their wholly owned airline.

[Wycombe]

within a week of the start of the service they have announced their intention to dispose of the types!

Only the remaining 195's are going.

[Flightrider]

The statement is complete rubbish. The ATRs can operate into Heathrow just as Q400s can. And they can’t even get the Heathrow terminal right. I hope no Guernsey passengers turn up at T3 otherwise they might be in for a suitcase sprint to where the flight really goes from. Their statement is unbelievably naive.

[virginblue]

As Flybe is not using its own slots, the most obvious answer would have been that a deal with Flybe was the only way to get access to LHR as apparently only Flybe could use those third-party slots.

[kcockayne]

Yes, that is the reality. What I am stressing is the absurdity of owning one airline (& bailing it out financially every year) , whilst subsidizing a competitor airline to provide competition which will dilute the state owned airlines’s only profitable route !
That, & the claim, in justification, that BEE will be more resilient - using slots that will most likely be commandeered by the parent airline.
You can add a further absurdity to all that; & that is, adopting an open skies policy for route operation but excluding Gatwick from it - in order to protect AUR . But, not from competition from Heathrow!

[virginblue]

Heathrow, for whatever reason, has apparently always been seen as the holy grail of aviation that must be served at all costs so that milk and honey can flow on Guernsey. Given that guernsey has survived for 20+ years without a Heathrowlink, it is a somewhat questionable concept. "Mine is bigger than yours" may have also contributed, given that Jersey no longer has a Heathrow service.

[JobsaGoodun]

The statement is complete rubbish. The ATRs can operate into Heathrow just as Q400s can. And they can’t even get the Heathrow terminal right. I hope no Guernsey passengers turn up at T3 otherwise they might be in for a suitcase sprint to where the flight really goes from. Their statement is unbelievably naive.

I think you’ll find that the ATR has too slow an approach speed to integrate with the majority of jet traffic at LHR. The DH4 is the only turboprop you’re likely to see at LHR for the foreseeable future on regular ops.

[EI-BUD]

Heathrow, for whatever reason, has apparently always been seen as the holy grail of aviation that must be served at all costs so that milk and honey can flow on Guernsey. Given that guernsey has survived for 20+ years without a Heathrowlink, it is a somewhat questionable concept. "Mine is bigger than yours" may have also contributed, given that Jersey no longer has a Heathrow service.

I recall Bmi putting an LHR JER service on in the last decade, it was short lived, trying to remember the specific dates, but wad around the time they got involved with BMed. If the bulk of traffic is P2P on GCI route there is no essential need for an LHR link, charges are too high such that will always makes it much more cost effective to fly to LGW.

[Gurnard]

.... Absolutely right. But the States of Guernsey, devoid of common sense, are prepared to subsidize this unnecessary service. :ugh:

[Feet on ground]

I think you’ll find that the ATR has too slow an approach speed to integrate with the majority of jet traffic at LHR. The DH4 is the only turboprop you’re likely to see at LHR for the foreseeable future on regular ops.

Not so. The ATR can approach at the same speed as jets. Where the ATR has an issue is with climb out speed. At Gatwick departing to the west, aircraft have to travel approx 20 miles before they can turn to avoid flying over Crawley and Horsham's densely populated areas. This is why at busy times (most times) departing ATRs at LGW are usually held and departed as the last of a bunch of departing aircraft and before an arriving aircraft, this avoids departing jet aircraft behind ATRs. At Heathrow, this issue does not exist as early turns are permitted after departure. There is no operational reason that prevents ATRs operating at LHR, that doesn't mean they make economic sense, but then neither do Q400s, Q400s are being used in slot play strategies and on a subsidised basis. Q400 ops at LHR would not be sustainable on a stand alone (without subsidy) basis when you look at the value of the slots and the costs of operating at LHR, that is why the Guernsey States subsidy for flybe is bonkers.

[cobopete]

Sad to see that FlyBe’s availability of E195 and E175s formed part of the decision to award the route to them when within a week of the start of the service they have announced their intention to dispose of the types!
Pete

[Jerbourg]

Those of us who follow aviation aren't surprised, the GCI govt. of course assumed Embraers may be used & as usual were wrong.

[cobopete]

Does anyone know the identity of the aircraft parked down next to the West Air Sweden ATP for most of today (Friday 14 June). It was about ATR 42 size with a white and blue fuselage and blue tail, left 1600 - 1630 ish.
Pete

Photo now on Guernsey Airport Photograhy.......
thanks ......
problem solved ...
it was an ATR 72(F) HBALR of Zimex Aviation