Swansea Airport

[BAforever]

Swansea News!

I've just heard (so yes this is a rumour) that 'Awr Abertawe Cymru':confused: are to lease 1 J31 19 seated aircraft to operate a service to LCY from Swansea twice Daily plus a daily IOM service.

So what do you think the liklihood of this service exceeding is and would you use it?:ok:

BA

[TJ747]

just out of interest, what services are there from swansea, if any, id ont really know much about swansea as everything seems to revolve round cardiff.
Ive tried looking on the website but not much on there to be honest, whats the biggest a/c swansea could handle ??

cheers

[flower]

I can't imagine the services could be viable, and with no ATC what happens if the weather is marginal ?

[BAforever]

:ok: It will be the only service out of Swansea( although Air Wales opertaed a swansea-LCY sevice prior to closing all services. It also has a runway just under 1500m

[skid]

sadly, it will probably go bust in a year, just like every other operator out of swansea has in the past 30 years! still you know the old saying, if you want to make a small fortune out of aviation...........

[BAforever]

I too agree that this service will be marginal in profits, but i think that the service may indeed work.

[CWL_Chris]

In theory, both SWS-LCY and SWS-IOM should work. The same can be said about CWL-LCY/IOM. The problem with these two routes is maintaining them long enough for customers to spread the word about the service as well as marketing them and filling the flights at an affordable, yet yielding enough price to make a profit for the airline.

The J31 has 19 seats, that means you would want probably a flight load of around 14/19 per flight at a price of say approximately £48 each way. That would generate £672 each way.

The problem is that both Swansea and Cardiff, have excellent train connections to London with First Great Western. However, I do believe that a South Wales - London air link can and will work.

Regards,
Chris

[flower]

Unless something has changed in the last week Swansea doesn't have ATC, therefore the aircraft won't be able to make an instrument approach to the airport so if the weather is Iffy, quite a common occurrence in these parts, it won't be able to land. How on earth do you run a scheduled service that can only fly when the weather is Good ?
Lets get real here

[skid]

oh. come on guys, get real. Air Wales and the airport threw money at this a couple of years ago and could'nt make a go of it. ILS installed, new terminal facilities decent ATR 42's etc.etc.etc. A mate of mine loved the LCY service, but the average load on a Monday morning was 5 pax! The bottom line is that there is not enough wealth in the west wales area to generate enough bums on seats for these services. Lord alone knows, its tough enough to make a profit at CWL!!

[TwinAisle]

I too agree that this service will be marginal in profits, but i think that the service may indeed work.

In that one sentence, we see what is wrong with the 21st Century airline business.... If a service is marginally profitable, why the hell would anyone operate it? The whole point of an airline is to generate a return for its stakeholders. Period.

Skid, you hit the nail on the head. The problem with a SWS-LCY service is that it is effectively unidirectional. Not that hard to fill the morning SWS-LCY and the evening LCY-SWS. But the other two sectors? Yuck. Which means that the passengers on the busy services have to pay enough to pay for the empty seats back... plays hell with the economics.

Additionally, one reason that the train will always do well is that the airline is stuck at just a few rotations a day. The train is half hourly at peak times, and hourly off peak. I used to commute to London regularly, and like many other people, found it hard to predict my return time (meetings run on, run short etc). The train gave me a "go home when you are ready" service that the airline could not sensibly provide.

Flower said

How on earth do you run a scheduled service that can only fly when the weather is Good

With great difficulty. Air Wales had to divert all too often to Cardiff, or terminate the service there, because Swansea was fogged out. You don't have to do that to people often before the average business punter says "nuts to this, I'm off back to Great Western"...

In theory, both SWS-LCY and SWS-IOM should work. The same can be said about CWL-LCY/IOM. The problem with these two routes is maintaining them long enough for customers to spread the word about the service as well as marketing them and filling the flights at an affordable, yet yielding enough price to make a profit for the airline.


In theory, so does Communism. With respect, CWL-Chris, your statement is analogous to "all I have to do to win the Lottery is pick the right six numbers". Easier said than done....

Lets get real here

Amen to that.

[xtypeman]

Look at the LCY fees the ATR operating at Peak to satisfy passengers was costing over £500 per landing thats with out handling pax taxs etc etc. LCY policy then was for aircraft having 80-90 seats plus to spread cost try using a landing of £500 for a J31. Just for info the CAA would not approve the ILS as it did not comply with latest regs for runway(they wanted about 900m of approach lighting full cross bars etc just like LHR!!! not on an aera of ssi)

[BAforever]

The J31 has 19 seats, that means you would want probably a flight load of around 14/19 per flight at a price of say approximately £48 each way. That would generate £672 each way.



From what ive heard it was looking more £90 single or £155 return to LCY and £80 single and £135 return for IOM:eek: . So slightly more than you and I thought.

[TwinAisle]

And still NO-WHERE near enough.

Let's assume that this runs double daily. Let's assume that the seats that sell go for £155. This is the PRICE, not the FARE.

The fare is going to be "less tax" - about £35 on this return. So there's a fare of £120 return, £60 (ish) single equivalent.

Now, as I noted earlier, they may well fill (yes, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume a VERY unlikely 100% load) on the flight up on a Monday, and back on a Friday. The morning returns and the afternoon outbounds will be miserable - about 2 or 3 pax tops. Trust me, I've been there, as I suspect has xtypeman, if he is who I think he is (and btw, if he is who I think he is, he KNOWS the LCY costs, he is not guessing).

Let's say that the Tues, Weds, and Thurs don't get 100% loads on the two sectors, but, say, a more realistic 75%, as do the returns on Monday night and the outbound on Friday morning.

That gives you a total weekly revenue of £10,920. Put it another way, a yield of £28.73.

As I said - you're dreaming! If you want to put me in touch with these guys, I will try and prevent them pouring their hard-earned readies down the khazi.

Also, I remind you again of the fact that business people need flexibility, and twice a day just won't cut it.

[pipertommy]

Says in todays pilot on a feature about Swansea that Air Wales are to start operating with a ATR 42 next summer on charter routes?And says its a "sleeping dragon"???Just seems to pop up every month are the finished or what:confused: Would be nice to see them back

[Stone Cold II]

Not gonna happen at Swansea Air Wales lost a awful lot of money from flying out of Swansea.

[aeroconejo]

Yep, they lost a fortune, but methinks that 'you know who' will not give up and is determined to lose several more £million at 'Harry Seccombe International'.....silly ******

the man is mad (but we always knew that!!!!)

aero :hmm:

[OE-HBB]

In theory, both SWS-LCY and SWS-IOM should work. The same can be said about CWL-LCY/IOM. .


Beacause to dilute an already saturated market on the isle of man is good business sense.

What is it with people and the Isle, there are only 70-75,000 people here...

Give it another 5 years and well all be running around in chieftains serving 25 airports in the UK..... :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Its not like flying off the island is cheap anyway... beacuse i like to pay £100 return to go 150 miles yet i look at RYR's site and i can go for some where 500 miles away 3 times cheaper... yes i get rather bitter and twisted about that..

Such is life

RANT OFF.:}

BB

[TCAS FAN]

Scheduled air services to/from SWS are just not going to happen, unless the present or new owner/operator wants to commit financial suicide.
A good friend was involved in trying to make ATR 42 services work at SWS, and had to give up when the money ran out.
The airport infrastructure is falling apart, the main runway is in a poor state of repair, the fire service is minimal with equipment that should have been retired years ago, the runway and approach lighting is in a poor state of repair (probably now below CAA standards), the tower would need replacing as there are many blind spots which prevent 360 degree visibility, and of course there is no ATC.
Last i heard there was an ILS installed (for the ATR 42s) but never used operationally, just rotting away.
A brave chance was made to make SWS work, sadly it was not to be, nor will it.

[gamekeeper/poacher]

I've been hearing some rumours lately that Swansea Airport has gone to the wall. Owed a stack of cash and therefore can't pay its bills, run out of fuel (Avgas is dry and Jet for emergency services only).

Can anyone confrim / deny?

[goatface]

Not much goes on at Swansea these days, virtually no commercial movements at all, very limited number of private movements and I don't know if the parachute school still operates there.
There's no doubt that it is not an economically viable business and is never likely to be.
The Welsh Assembly Government was conducting studies into improving the facilities at the airport as part of the transport infrastructure development strategy for the whole of Wales. The improvements may require some public sector support. Development proposals include: a new terminal building, new hangars, upgraded operating facilities, new fencing and a new access road.

That said, I don't know if this went any further than the discussion stage and given the current economic environment I doubt that any government money would be invested.

There has also been widespread local opposition against the idea of further development of the airport. The main concerns are: the impact on the internationally important Special Area of Conservation which almost surrounds the airport; noise from the potential increased number of flights at the airport; and the negative impact of the development of the airport on the local scenery, since Gower is a designated Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty.

It's a shame really because the only other options are Cardiff and Bristol, both well equipped and relatively G/A friendly, but very expensive and not very convenient.

[gamekeeper/poacher]

I was looking at it from a purley GA point of view. I know that there have been a few carriers in there trying commercial operations over the years who seemed to have doen reasonably well from the government hand outs but not that well as a purely commercial entity. the proximity to Cardiff and Bristol (and even London with the M4 and intercity rail links) will always mean it will be a difficult struggle to compete. And road access is not great, you are quicker to go from Port Talbot to Cardiff than you are to Swansea!
As far as I am aware the Parachute Club is still operating and doing well.
It would be a crying shame to have another airfield close especailly in the South Wales area as they are not exactly abundant.

Can anyone form Swansea updte us?

[pipertommy]

I fly from Swansea every weekend, no problem getting fuel, and the airport is very busy at weekends.

Operations are as normal! Lots of visitors during this lovely weather.
GA is very welcome and all flying clubs are doing well:ok:

The parachuting school is doing very well, if the weather is good they will be jumping!

Not sure where you heard the false rumour?
Not good spreading rumours like that in these times.

PT

[AlphaMale]

Looked busy there last weekend and saw the skydivers BN2 Islander take to the sky 3 times while I was standing outside.

Plenty of people parked up watching the planes from their cars, and half a dozen kids clutching at the fence with excitement too ... no wait that was me. :ok:

[CSman]

AH Swansea ,reminds me of happy days,I think it was a lovely Saturday duty,wind up the Dak,then CWL -jersey -Swansea -jersey -Cwl, A quick visit to the Glamorgan flying club and then home in time for tea