Abu Dhabi ATCO

[Muren]

I tried posting the same thread in the ME forum but no answer so forgive for trying here.

Anyone who can help me with some info on Abu Dhabi, ACC.

Anything is of interest: salary, roster (+ leave during a year), general working environment, were to live working in Abu Dhabi (Dubai vs Abu Dhabi) etc.

You hear a lot of bad things about the area at present, is it really that bad or are the happy guys just being very quiet?

Thanks

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

I think you'll find if you do a search on the Middle East forum for ATC jobs or something like that you will find lots of info about UAE ACC in Abu Dhabi. I will PM you when I get a chance with a quick run down of the package but as far as Dubai versus Abu Dhabi, all I will say is I am thankful everyday I live 1 and a 1/2 hours south of Dubai and not in the dusty, grid locked, overpriced building site. Maybe in 50 years when its finished (:confused: ) it might be okay, but right now I would without hesitation go for the relative serenity and sanity of Abu Dhabi, and visit Dubai when the urge hits.

As far as bad or good here. Its what you make of it. If you see the glass half empty, you will spend your life here miserable pointing out the empty glasses everywhere. Best advice is come out and visit and decide for yourself. We even have Carlsberg and Tuborg again these days, just don't draw anymore cartoons ;)

[Muren]

Thanks, I'll run a search on the forum to check for info and would appreciate the PM whenever you get the time.

I will come an visit before I decide thats for sure, its a must to get plenty of insight prior a decision that will influence at least the next 3 years of my life.. if they wont grant the leave then quitting the job in Copenhagen might be more permanent than planned, but plenty of us are ready to leave I think, it almost seems like the company is encouraging people to quit with their way of going about things.

The reason for the whole living in Dubai vs AD thing was the fact that a lot of the friends soon leaving for Dubai will settle close to the city and my girl and I being the 'only' ones down at Abu Dhabi could make it harder to keep contact.

[Muren]

And another thing, they opened for direct hire instead of SERCO, whats the pros and cons of the two options? (given they ARE options?)

[Tivoli Vertigo]

Muren check your PM

[burjalrumaithy]

the relative serenity and sanity of Abu Dhabi relative to what?............Baghdad?:ugh:

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

As I said relative to Dubai. In Abu Dhabi you don't sit in traffic jams for 2 hours. You generally get around easily and cheaply by taxi (if a bit smelly at times), and for the most part there are not constant roadworks everywhere.

Now as Burj will undoubtedly reply, things are far from perfect in Abu Dhabi, but as I said before, if you see the positives of the place (good weather, good reasonably priced restaurants, friendly expat community etc.) rather than focusing on the negatives (spiralling cost of rent, understaffed overworked working conditions), you can have a good time here. But you have to come here with your eyes open. Cheers.:ok:

[burjalrumaithy]

In Abu Dhabi you don't sit in traffic jams for 2 hours.You spend 2 hours looking for a parking spot You generally get around easily and cheaply by taxi (if a bit smelly at times)The stench would knock a fly off a bucket of sh:mad: t. Behind that orange toothed smile lurks a Michael Schumacher off his head on KHAT, and for the most part there are not constant roadworks everywhere.just lunatic'' Local ''drivers and traffic lights
Now as Burj will undoubtedly replyof course, things are far from perfect in Abu Dhabiunderstatement of the year, but as I said before, if you see the positives of the placewhat religious sect do you belong to ? (good weatherNovember December January February and maybe March unless you like to ferment, good reasonably priced restaurantsHow many times have you been in hospital with food poisoning, HHHMMM!!, friendly expat community You're talking about females of courseetc.) rather than focusing on the negatives Ignoring the negatives (spiralling cost of rentwhich I warned you about . Sucko always 2 steps ahead of the game. But nah! that's just me scare mongering, understaffed overworked working conditionsanother understatement), you can have a good time hereon holidays. But you have to come here with your eyes openand have an :mad: as tight as a camel's in a sandstorm.
:
Airno = SUCKO's new recruitment officer:D

[burjalrumaithy]

If I was wasting my time you wouldn't be watching and certainly wouldn't reply.

[burjalrumaithy]

Ana asif. Sh:mad: t!!! another irate taxi driver

[burjalrumaithy]

. Like ANSA is saying, try to look at it as "half full" instead of you "totally empty". := Nay! just amazed that Sucko/GSEEAA keep serving up half empty glasses and then wonder why they can't get any customers

[Muren]

ANSA and Tivoli thanks for your help via PM.. As for you Burjal I wonder why you even bother answering in a thread like this when you don't contribute with anything.

You fit the profile of a bitter man allright, but why?

[burjalrumaithy]

you'll see

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Muren as you've seen there are differing points of view about working here. I won't sink to Burj's depths and continue a slinging match, that ends up with us getting completely off topic. Suffice to say that there are some very bitter and twisted people who have left here, and for some reason continue to try and deter people from coming here, even though it has nothing to do with them anymore. Bottom line is I would never be able to have 24,000 dirhams (about $6400 USD) in my hand each month after rent, health insurance, one return air ticket to Oz for me and my family each year, utility bills has been taken out, back in Oz. In return for that high salary, we work really hard. Personally I enjoy the job. As you can see some people evidently don't. Come look, and talk to all the guys and decide for yourself. Cheers.

[Red Dragon]

ANSA,

The Dhs24,000...is that before or after school fees?

:)

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

As you know Red Dragon, thats before school fees. As I have said in previous threads, if you have more than one school age child, you are better off on an all in package like Bahrain where you are getting about 22,000 dh's including school fees and living in a villa (but you live in Bahrain). Whereas if you are without school age kids you are better off here, and if you have one young school age kid, it is about the same.

Cost of living comparison between Abu Dhabi and Dubai though is an easy one. You will end up spending a lot less day to day in Abu Dhabi than Dubai.

[choclit runway]

Hi Muren

Got caught up with the bitter in a similar thread to this one with someone asking about Dubai... DO NOT BE PUT OFF BY THE NEGATIVE, MOANINGS OF PEOPLE WHO CLAIM TO HATE IT BUT KNOW WHICH SIDE THEIR BREAD IS BUTTERED!

If it was that bad there would be nobody here! They wont leave because they have either burnt bridges or the UAE is better than their alternative.

Its not perfect but show me an atc unit where nobody moans. I think one of the worst things here is the amount of moaning by your colleagues.

Just look at your reasons for coming... If it's for an extended, sunny, working holiday you will be in exactly the right frame of mind to unplug, leave your woes at the radar, and enjoy the multitude of activities that you may not have available or cannot afford in your own country. You will meet some great people from different cultures and return home when you are ready a richer person. AD, Dubai, Muscat, Bahrain... They all have pro's and con's so take your pick and enjoy.

Cheers.

[Red Dragon]

ANSA
No I wasn't aware of that but thanks. I had heard rough details of the "new" package at the centre but didn't know the fine print of how the allowances were worked out. It certainly doesn't look very attractive for anyone with two or more children. I just hope our new contract next year stays in the same format is it is now as I think the lump sum will deter families and hence people who are more likely to stay long term.

:ok:

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

You may be right Red Dragon, and I think Serco may have painted themselves into a corner by encouraging only single mostly short term people to come, but for us that are here with no kids at school, it was a very big win.

The argument of whether the setup we have here now is fair or not is a difficult one. On one hand the single guys say that since they work just as hard and work just as much traffic as a married guy with kids, he deserves the same amount of money. On the other hand the guys with kids say that because it's always been the way, education should be paid for by the company above and beyond the salary they get. Probably the best compromise would have been that regardless of family situation all guys got the same accomodation and same salary, and still education was paid for by the company. But that wasn't the direction they chose to go in, which sucked for the long term guys here with kids in school.

Bottom line now is that if you are coming to the Gulf as an Area controller, if you have school age kids, Bahrain is the best option, and if you are a guy with no school age kids, Abu Dhabi or Muscat is the best option. Will be interesting to see in a couple of years, what the turnover of controllers is here. A lot of new guys here now, but the big question is will any of them stay beyond 2 or 3 years, like most of the family guys have (who more often stay 5 years plus, cos their kids are in school). Also with education costs going up by 15 to 20 % annually here, and family size accomodation going up in rent by more than that, it will be increasingly difficult for married guys with kids to stay here, even if they wanted to.

Interesting times ahead!

[ShooTheGap]

ANSA, For a single person, is there a diferrence Serco/GCAA contract? PM if necessary. Thanks
Will the opening of the DXB 2nd runway make your lifes easier in the ACC?

[prowler]

hi ANSA,

I am just tryin to get some info from u, as u r like being portrayed as like an H.R. to the SERCO Unit u work in UAE ACC.

I would like to ask a question to u pls? As it seems that the ACC u r in, is Short of Staff, or more Staff leaving than joining, would your Unit consider a Radar ATCO who is ONLY APP Radar Rated, but.... not Area Rated??:cool:

I know this could sound odd, but who knows? I'm asking this as a colleague of mine who was barely a yeear on Area Radar, but had been around 4yrs on APP Radar was offered a job in Abu Dhabi, ON THE PHONE.....This was about less than a year ago.....:D

Ok he didnt have the 5 year minimums, but would your Unit consider having an APP Radar Rated ATCO to do Area Radar there in Abu Dhabi or Bahrain, that is doing the Radar Conversion within your Company?& of course put pen to paper on a Contract?

Thanks, & appreciate your views & answers

Good day mate:ok:

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Hey Prowler certainly not HR for Serco, so sorry can't tell you whether they will take you without an Area rating. You need to contact Serco or GCAA to find that out. I think Abu Dhabi App and Dubai App are both hiring though if you don't have any luck with Area. Cheers.

Of course the 2nd runway would make a huge difference for us, as now we are having to provide 20 NM in trail spacing during peak periods, with certain crews at times asking for up to 40 NM in trail spacing. When you have 70 arrivals in 2 hours, those figures just don't work, and so we end up holding for 4 hours, with masses of aircraft spinning in both holding stacks. Until we do get the 2nd runway, what would help is that all Dubai App crews do as some do, that is they look out and see that they have a lull from one side and reduce the spacing from the other side to help clear the hold, or at least help us stay below sector capacity. Anyway thats a different topic and its been done before. I'll stop right there.

The main difference between direct hire and Serco hire is that you arrive direct hire, you get put in a hotel room, get given your money, and then its up to you to find a place to live etc. With Serco, you arrive and have a furnished flat to live in (yes not always a great one), and all your visas, liquor licenses, health insurance etc are looked after. So the money is basically the same it is just a matter of how much support you want when you arrive from an overseas country.

[makeapullup]

Hello
Having just zipped through the ME (Dubai) I can only say - the place is awesome and everyone looks very happy. Obviously there are problems but these seem small.

Would recommend the place to anyone, even if its only for a holiday.

Cheers

[qsyenroute]

It’s no wonder the Gulf locations have such a high turnover of ATC staff.

Reading all the threads it seems that most controllers in the ME spend their time whining about every issue. In the seventies and eighties we simply rolled up our sleeves and got on with the job. Loved the job, loved the life.

No expectations, no hand wringing, no “should I” “ shouldn’t I” and “what if this” and “what if that”.

Nancy boys the lot of you!

[Quokka]

...ahh, those were the days... give me Very pistol and a couple of semaphore flags any day... ;)

[tcinema]

Hello
We are a french couple. We are 32 years old. We are both ATC in an enroute control centre in france. The name is REIMS ACC . It is one of the busiest area of europe as we are right in the middle of all european airfields. We are in permanent relationship with the main european control centres as SKYGUIDE, NATS, DFS, MAASTRICHT UAC.
We started aviation training school in 2003, we moved to our job location and we have been working as atc ´ s in Reims ACC since then.
We would like to apply for a job in the middle east, abu dhabi would be a perfect match for us
What is the procedure ? Would it be possible ?

I still have some questions regarding the way of living :
could you tell us how hard the training is, and how long it took you to get your full qualification. what is the exact amount of money you get once you arrive , and how the children, house and transportation allowance are calculated .
Also we would like to know how the shift is, how many days you work in a year , and the number on holidays you get
Thank you very much for your response , we would really appreciate
Best regards

[BlueSkye]

http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/data/500/holy-thread-revival-batman.jpg (http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/166794/cat/500)

[northeast]

Well said qsyenroute. I couldn't agree with you more. :ok:

[Squawk 7500]

I'm not sure they have the same strike culture as you guys, so annual leave entitlement may come as a shock to the system!

[west atc]

We are both ATC in an enroute control centre in france. The name is REIMS ACC. It is one of the busiest area of europe as we are right in the middle of all european airfields.

Don't we all work at the busiest area?

could you tell us how hard the training is, and how long it took you to get your full qualification

It takes about 3 months to get qualified from the day you arrive, how hard the training is depends on how quickly you adapt to the unique requirements here.

. what is the exact amount of money you get once you arrive , and how the children, house and transportation allowance are calculated

If you are hired by GCAA you don't get anything on arrival, there are no allowances as such, just your monthly pay with everything rolled into one.
Housing is getting more expensive, you will need to pay at least 6 months rent up front as well as 5% commission and 5% deposit.
Schooling is pretty expensive here too, you have to pay for it yourselves.
However if you are both working as ATCs then you should be pretty comfortable here but you may have trouble getting both if you hired if you have the same surname (not sure about this one).

Also we would like to know how the shift is, how many days you work in a year. what is the exact amount of money you get once you arrive , and the number on holidays you get

The shifts are 6on/4off, usually M,M,A,A,N,N. We get 34 shifts a year leave.
If you get hired directly with GCAA you get nothing on arrival, only your pay at the end of the month.

It is an enjoyable place to live and work, the ATCs are generally very friendly and
good to work with. It does get busy like everywhere, the big difference here is there is no central flow unit so there is no regulation of traffic. You also will work the hardest on night shifts and it is only getting busier like most places.

[UpperATC]

And...

Is Abu Dhabi ACC (Gcaa/Serco) hiring new staff even without advertising vacancies?

[tcinema]

thank you for your answers .
i did not mean to offend you when i was speaking about a busy area , it was just to say we have some kind of experience to apply ....

[tcinema]

thank you for your helpful comment

[west atc]

i did not mean to offend you when i was speaking about a busy area , it was just to say we have some kind of experience to apply ....

No offense taken, i was just quoting the old ATC line of everyone works the busiest sector in the world :cool:

[tcinema]

anyway , it sounds great
we would love to join the adventure , we are very motivated , we just have to wait for AD vacancies to show up....
any advice about how to fill in our CV ? we just have a 8 years experience of en route after a 2 years at aviation school where we acquired both ACC and APP ratings.
thank you all

[Number2]

Don't be fooled by the hype. It's not all it's cracked up to be.

[tcinema]

I don't understand what you mean ....

[pushing tins]

What I think Number2 means is:

1. Be prepaired to be offered AED 42.000 per month while your colleagues who already work there are being paid 54.000

2. Accept the fact that leave days went from 56 a year to 30 when Serco left and you have to take the 4 days between cycles as leave days

3. School allowance went from AED 65.000 a year to 50.000 when Serco left which is conciderable when you have to pay around AED 60.000 per child at a good school, plus additional charges.

4. You will have to sponsor your family yourself and go through all the trouble of arranging it because unlike Serco, GAL does not do it.

5. Getting days off can be a problem, especially two continuous cycles because of staff shortage.

6. With Serco, if you were called out on a standy shift you got a day leave in return. With GAL you have to work 12 standy shifts before gettin one day leave (lieu) back.

and more...

at least that is what a friend of mine told me who works there ;)

[west atc]

You are getting Abu Dhabi Approach mixed up with the Abu Dhabi ACC which I believe is what is being asked about.

1. Be prepaired to be offered AED 42.000 per month while your colleagues who already work there are being paid 54.000

The starting pay is closer to the higher figure than the lower one but is 5,000 a month less than what people who have been there a while are on.

2. Accept the fact that leave days went from 56 a year to 30 when Serco left and you have to take the 4 days between cycles as leave days

Leave is 34 working days a year at the ACC, for HR benefit it is calculated as 56 calendar days. This has not changed in a long time, just the way they are calculated has.

3. School allowance went from AED 65.000 a year to 50.000 when Serco left which is conciderable when you have to pay around AED 60.000 per child at a good school, plus additional charges.

As I said previously the ACC has no schooling allowance, just a monthly pay.

4. You will have to sponsor your family yourself and go through all the trouble of arranging it because unlike Serco, GAL does not do it.

Not true with GCAA, while they are no where near as helpful as Serco, they do pay for and arrange all sponsorship.

5. Getting days off can be a problem, especially two continuous cycles because of staff shortage.

Again not true in the ACC, but unfortunately for any people looking to come here there are probably too many staff so any new jobs will probably just replace people leaving.

6. With Serco, if you were called out on a standy shift you got a day leave in return. With GAL you have to work 12 standy shifts before gettin one day leave (lieu) back.

In the ACC standby shifts are part of your normal roster pattern do if you get called out you are working a normal shift anyway. If you don't get called out then it is an extra day off.

I won't try to guess what Number 2 is getting at but I would say that there are people who like it here and others who don't. GCAA is far from a perfect employer and the fact the there has been no pay rise in 5 years is affecting morale quite badly.

[Plazbot]

Two cycles are a requirement of the CARs.

[Number2]

No recent pay rise (or in foreseeable future)
No school fees
No housing allowance advance available
Rents increasing at exponential rate
Contracts change on a whim
Bonuses subject to new HR ruling
Make a mistake and risk being fired
Overtime payments take up to 4 months to be paid
Risk your lives on the roads
Live as a second class citizen

Living the dream!

[tcinema]

thank you for the tips!!!
when reading some posts, I got the impression some people are treated as pakistanis or indians second base staff.
I mean , we are not looking for the perfect job with the perfect salary in the perfect conditions, we are just trying to relocate ourselves to a new place and do our job , which we love by the way.
We know there are lots of concessions to make , but we think once in a lifetime we have to taste it.
And also we would be coming as 2 ATCOs , so the financial aspect doesn't matter much for us as we would get enough money to make it.
Anyway , thank you all of you to give us a clear point of view

[Number2]

I hope your English is good then.
The last Spaniard crashed and burned partly because he struggled to communicate so quickly in his second language. No French spoken here!

[tcinema]

As long as the english is praseology , it will be ok
And we are not fluent like you guys but we ll make it i am sure
Thank you for your support

[Eau de Boeing]

As long as you can understand "confirm" and "Roddggge Sir" and read back things 3 times you should be fine down here..... Bonne Courage!

[bob1013]

Have all positions in Middle East been filled or just not being published???

[Voel]

I believe APP/TWR are short in Abu Dhabi

[bob1013]

Is that a serco contract or other???

[atcoexpert]

GALwere looking for APP and TWR controllers a couple of weeks back but I reckon that was in case they got the contract for Sharjah. SERCO got Sharjah again so the add disappeared from their website.
I don't think GAL are currently advertising controller jobs.

[bob1013]

Yeah I was wondering what had happened with gal... Esp when I got 2 emails within mins saying no... Oh well I can only hope for more opportunities soon

[DESDI OR BUST]

....All correct except that its now 5 months before overtime paid...might be 6 by next month!!! :8

Also....leave reduced significantly to 22 working days....down from 34.....welcome to the GCAA folks...

[Rule3]

Are you saying leave for those already contracted has been reduced to 22 days, or is it for new joiners?

I appreciate your pain, however you neglected to mention that you get a day for every Public Holiday, so chalk up about another 10 to 15 days leave.

Whether you get to take them or not is another thing.:{

[DESDI OR BUST]

You are correct. Athere seemed to be some confusion (surprise sursprise) over that. no change to leave policy.

[Maintain VFR]

Hi folks, I'm a long time reader of PPRuNe, first time poster! I'm interested in finding out about Abu Dhabi TWR .. working conditions, shift patterns, A/L, management, team morale, traffic patterns etc.. Any feedback would be appreciated! Cheers! :ok:

[avoiee]

Hi everyone

GCAA had open vacancy for acc controller , anyone applied ? or its other way around that everyone whants to leave?

How long it takes to hear from them ? in both cases yes or no ?

Thx

[allrounder99]

Hi everyone

GCAA had open vacancy for acc controller , anyone applied ? or its other way around that everyone whants to leave?

How long it takes to hear from them ? in both cases yes or no ?

Thx

Just don't bother subjecting yourself to coming here. It's not a decision you can take back and you will regret it. The money is not that great, and if you have a family, the money isn't even enough, and the working conditions and morale are so bad it's horrible going to work. Will leave as soon as any other door opens up.

Rosters are getting worse, salaries are screwed, leave is unbalanced, no payrise in sight, lies and more lies from management and HR about any subject you bring up.

JUST DONT BOTHER.

[west atc]

Are you from Georgia? If you don't have experience in a very busy and complex ACC please don't apply. The UAE ACC airspace is busy and getting busier without any flow control and the lack of quality pilots makes the job even harder.
Don't come here thinking it is easy money because it is far from it, we have had enough poor controllers try and fail.

[travellingatco]

Hey guys. I haven't been on here in a long time but I have some questions about this.

This feed definitely leaves me with a nervous feeling. I have been talking to the recruiters for Abu Dhabi this past week, and I am half expecting an offer for training to come in the next week. I had never decided if I was going to take it or not, but I was really hoping the scenario there was better than it sounds.

I'm coming from a pretty complex specialty with 9 years experience in a mix of radar, and non-radar, and have 3.5 years with a terminal endorsement. Honestly, Morale in my department is at an all time low, and I really just want to go somewhere with a better climate, and where I can make enough to travel, have fun, and retire fairly young.

First, even coming from a poor morale department (critcally understaffed with no end in sight and lies from management), in a place that gets 2-4 months of nice weather a year, would you still say not to come there? Just wait for somewhere else? Just to be clear, this place sucks. Lol. Its only family that would keep me here.

Second, if I ignored all of your advice and came anyhow :ugh: what would I need to make in AED (single guy but still going to keep my home back in Canada) to lead a decent lifestyle there? I'm not sure if there is negotiating room or not but it doesn't hurt to ask right?

Third, what do you guys think of Abu Dhabi aside from the crap you're dealing with at work? Seems like there would be no shortage of things to do, but I haven't been there yet. Possibly coming out in 1-2 months before making any final decision. But do you enjoy the city/country?

Thanks in advance,

Travellingatco

[west atc]

There is enough information here for you to make your decision, if you think you will be different to everyone else and enjoy it even though most people are making exit plans then go ahead.

Don't say you weren't warned though when you regret your decision, because you will...

[travellingatco]

Fair enough. Thanks west atc. I'll see what happens this week. Maybe I won't get an offer anyhow. That certainly would make the decision simple!

But it does seem like the waiting for somewhere else to open up would make me happier. I know one controller in Brisbane, and a couple in Bahrain. I'll talk to them and see how they feel about where they are. Neither are hiring internationally right now, but I'm not in some big hurry.

[divingduck]

The question that you haven't asked yet...is the job for Abu Dhabi Approach/Tower or UAE centre...one is a cat, the other a giraffe....
not same same...

[travellingatco]

Abu Dhabi ACC.

[thealps]

Hey there

I hear people have been leaving the ACC in bunches lately. Are any new ones joining or how bad is it? No pay raise or other allowances being discussed in order to bring in new faces and at the same time keep the ones already there...?