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23rd Sep 2001, 01:09
Good to see Stelios' dad forking out for a full page ad in the Telegraph today!

The gist was an open letter to Gordon Brown whingeing in advance that 'some' airlines might get govt subsidy in these difficult times.

Sits back, pauses & waits for the inevitable nonsense from the Guv...

23rd Sep 2001, 01:36

I read the letter with a certain amount of disbelief. Very typical of a man such as Stellios, to try to capitalise on the death of 6000+ people for his own business purposes - quite amazing. If the government do not help the airlines out at this time in the UK then there are going to be a serious quantity of job losses and not only in the airline industry.

I will think twice before flying EasyJet again and suggest that others should do likewise.

The Guvnor
23rd Sep 2001, 01:43
Well, I won't disappoint you then, Overstress! :D :D :D

Just been listening to Tim Jeans being interviewed by Edwina Currie on Radio 5. Very interesting, but what he forgets is that he's comparing apples with potatoes.

Regional low cost operators have a completely different economic/operational profile than long haul, full service ones - especially those that depend on the transatlantic market for a disproportionate percentage of their revenue.

If the US carriers are getting bailed out, then I'm all for government aid on the same terms for UK/EU airlines.

Enough nonsense? :rolleyes: :eek: :rolleyes:

23rd Sep 2001, 01:54
Not bad, Guv - only 34 mins to reply!! But I am glad that any Govt compensation would have your approval, I'm sure that the Board of BA and the mgt of VS will rest easier tonight! :D

Flapp: I too felt nauseated by the tone of the whole-page ad - are there no limits to the depths that this man will sink in his quest to state his market position?

Why should Easy be concerned if a long-haul transatlantic operator is in trouble?

Is Stelios hoping that BA go to the wall, so that the pax who would have flown BA First LHR-LAX will change his/her mind and fly EZY LTN-GLA instead?

Stelios is like the kid in the playground who snitches to the teacher when someone steals his lollipop.

23rd Sep 2001, 02:42
the said 'entrepeneur' comes from the country that has a few billion of Ben's stash in the laundry!
Think about it.

23rd Sep 2001, 04:25
So if the Whingeing Greek is not going to be a(e)ffected by this why has he got a 150,000 seat sale on?

23rd Sep 2001, 12:56
On a rare visit to the UK I was watching TV at my parents and there was this program about Easy and Luton (I guess UK board members can enlighten us on the name of the said program)..

What I found so enigmatic is that most of the pax were saying "they'd never fly easy again".. I was thinking (brain engages)... does the fat greek think of this as GOOD publicity?

[ 23 September 2001: Message edited by: rustbucket732 ]

23rd Sep 2001, 13:15
However, he has accepted the insurance deal from the Government.

All airlines will become effected by this one way or another sooner or later.
In one form or another all airlines depend on each other. Being smug is not on during times like this, coz the next it could be you.
13 Sept saw EasyJet cancel flights due to the extra security and their planes were running late. I was on the BCN and quite a few paxs rebooked with us to return to the UK. EasyJet can not handle the day to day delays, fog and snow at LTN.
EasyJet has a place in UK aviation but not as a UK major such as a BA, bmi, virgin replacement.
Most people I come across when they find out what I do for a living, all comment on that TV programme. They are all shocked and critical and find it hard to believe how rude and unhelpful the staff are, even if they are contract staff, joe public still see them as EasyJet. Usually ending with I`ll never fly with them. Saying that, he has much free publicity and everyone in the UK knows EasyJet.
Daddy`s wallet may run dry in times like this and as you have cut up your Barclaycard you have lost one form of credit!

[ 23 September 2001: Message edited by: euroboy ]

23rd Sep 2001, 13:46
Its unfortunate that the bigger companys can get away with and be bailed out of BAD Management practices while those smaller companys get f*** -all in aid and yet still show profits after a time of severe avaition turmoil. I say good for easy and the Ryanairs of this world. Survival of the fittest and "clever-est" in these new world and Global enviroments.
Good luck to them all!

23rd Sep 2001, 14:15
Think ahead.....Easy to USA?
I still remember flying Viscounts with Virgin logo on the tail (LTN-DUB)and look at them now!

23rd Sep 2001, 14:20
Damn right.
The big boys have been clumsy inefficient top heavy monoliths for years now, and I wonder who really is taking the most crass 'commercial advantage' of recent events.

northern boy
23rd Sep 2001, 14:27
Buzid, I bet you wouldn't be saying that if it was your job on the line.

Have a little sympathy mate. It might be you one day.

Dirty Harry
23rd Sep 2001, 15:45
I tend to agree with the majority on this one. All the airlines will be affected by this terrible time, not just the Trans Atlantic carriers. I think that for Stelios or one of his representatives to place such an article/advertisement in the national paper should be treated with the contempt it deserves. Have they no sympathy or understanding. Stelios seems to forget at times that he of all people is probably top of the list for handouts! My deepest sympathy to all those faced with the loss of their jobs.

Oh, and just for interest we are booking some tickets for a business trip at present for which we have the choice of EZY or BA, in light of this we will confirm our booking with BA tomorrow.

The Guvnor
23rd Sep 2001, 16:11
From today's Sunday Times - seems like everything (no doubt including the US attacks) is the fault of Barclays! :D :D :D

Bank accused of airline dirty tricks
Robert Winnett, Consumer Affairs Correspondent

BARCLAYS bank has been accused of compiling a
dirty-tricks file on Stelios Haji- Ioannou and his easyGroup business empire.

Haji-Ioannou has written to Matthew Barrett, the chief executive of Barclays, asking to see any files it holds on his personal and financial affairs. He has been told the bank was provided with such information by a private detective agency.

The two companies have been involved in a bitter feud over the past two years, after Luton airport, in which a Barclays offshoot until recently owned a large stake, more than
quadrupled the landing fees paid by easyJet.

Tomorrow easyGroup will start a "rip up your Barclaycard" campaign to coincide with the launch of its new credit card.

Haji-Ioannou fears that Barclays may now be playing dirty in the feud to undermine his reputation, and therefore that of his companies. Someone, he says, may be briefing reporters and investment analysts, who make decisions about whether to recommend buying or selling shares in easyJet.

He has already been confronted by paparazzi and been questioned about his sexuality. One reporter asked him if he was gay, while another claimed he was dating Dannii Minogue.

He has also read details about his tax status in newspapers - he lives in Monaco for much of the year and does not technically earn an income, or pay tax, in Britain. Parts of
easyGroup are also registered in Jersey, a tax haven.

Haji-Ioannou banked with Barclays in Monaco, which prompted suspicions - but not evidence - about the source of the information on his private financial affairs.

Further questions have been raised about the safety training procedures for stewards and plans to increase the number of seats on its planes. Many of the allegations have proved
groundless and lawyers have been consulted.

Barclays strenuously denies that it has compiled a file on the founder of easyJet or is behind any of the allegations. Leigh
Bruce, the director of communications at the bank, said: "I find this an extraordinary allegation. We are only interested in
promoting Barclays bank and its products. We respect Stelios and believe he has got an excellent business acumen, but this is a publicity stunt."

The founder of the budget airline, who has diversified into hire cars, financial services and internet cafes, has asked the
bank to disclose any documents it may hold under the terms of the Data Protection Act. Under the law, Barclays has 40 days to reveal any information, both in electronic and paper
files, or else face an investigation from the data protection registrar.

Haji-Ioannou heard about the supposed file via a source. He was told it was compiled at Barclays' request by a firm of private detectives and that it contains details of an involuntary manslaughter charge brought against him by Italian authorities, his tax status, and information about pilot training.

"I have always been very open about myself and my firm. I have been told that Barclays commissioned a security firm to investigate me and I am now asking the bank, formally, to
say whether this is true. I keep an open mind and I await its response," he said.

EasyJet is well known for its aggressive campaigns against other companies. Over the past two years it has spent hundreds of thousands of pounds taking out full-page
newspaper adverts urging people to boycott Barclays. It has also attacked British Airways.

When buying a plane ticket, easyJet adds a "Barclays fat-cat charge" of £4.50 to cover the increased landing fee, which shows up as a separate charge on credit card statements.

Until last March, two investment units of Barclays owned a 65% stake in Luton airport. EasyJet claims that Barclays was behind the decision to increase the landing charge from
£1 to £5.50 this year.

Shortly after introducing the price rise, Barclays sold its Luton stake for £82m - more than five times the £15m it paid in August 1998.

This week Haji-Ioannou will tackle the bank head-on with the launch of a credit card. Its basic rate will be five percentage points cheaper than Barclaycard, the country's most popular credit card. EasyMoney, his latest venture, will also offer loans and other financial products in the coming months.

But Barclays said it was ready to take on all-comers, including easyMoney, and did not need to resort to underhand tactics. "It is a competitive market. We constantly try to improve what we do," said Bruce.

The dirty-tricks allegation comes at a time when Barclays is only just beginning to restore its tattered reputation. Eighteen
months ago it faced a public relations disaster after closing 171 branches on a single day.

It then announced a generous new pay scheme for its top directors, which could see Barrett pick up as much as £30m if performance meets certain criteria before 2003.

Corporate snooping is now big business. Detective agencies are often employed to trawl rubbish bins and call company executives posing as investment analysts to elicit sensitive information. Earlier this month Procter & Gamble agreed to pay Unilever $10m (£6.9m) after admitting it had used an
agency to obtain details of new shampoos from its competitor.

There is no evidence that Barclays used such tactics and Haji-Ioannou is unaware of being targeted in this way.

23rd Sep 2001, 17:01
No doubt about it Mr Easyjet has done a great job in building his airline - but why does he have to go banging on and on and on about BA - he hasnt done that badly out of the UK market - and if he is that good why doesnt he go off to Greece and show us how good he really is by opening up that market to a low cost operation or is it that he can only do well in an open market like the UK?

23rd Sep 2001, 17:31

Pretty childish behaviour by Stelios (and somewhat risky) - to launch an actual dirty tricks campaign in response to a rumoured one by Barclays, and indulge in general petulance because of dissatisfaction with charges at Luton.

I think my reputation would survive the rumour that I was dating Dannii Minogue though!

[ 23 September 2001: Message edited by: Sick ]

23rd Sep 2001, 17:37
Northern Boy, I can say I feel dreadfull about anybody who's job is under threat from all this business - not just flight deck either, but the other 90% affected too.
There is no 'safe' job in aviation right this minute, but I just think it's a bit despicable the way some of the players have decided to operate with no anasthetic on a wound that's probably been festering for a while now.

And yes, Stelios' campaign probably could have been handled a little differently.....

23rd Sep 2001, 18:45
Virgin was already operating services to New York (EWR) before it started services between Luton-Dublin and Holland with a Viscount.
The Viscount was leased from BAF and BAF crews used.

Brakes to Park
24th Sep 2001, 12:51
Dirty Harry , off on a "business" trip with BA are we? In other words , you're not paying for the ticket yourself , someone else is. You're adding (not) to shareholder value for your Company by paying more for the ticket than if you flew with easyJet unlike many businessmen who are waking up to the fact that they're being ripped off.

southern softy
24th Sep 2001, 14:12
and funding the coffers of an australian with bank accounts everywhere bar the UK.

Who is merely trying to capitalise from the present market. Lets face it, whatever you say about stelios, Edddington and co were axing thousands of jobs and calling for govt aid before the aerial from the top of the WTC had hit the ground.

24th Sep 2001, 18:21
Just wondering how many of the gang who continually slag off easyJet will have filled in application forms over the last week.

The company has come a long way over the last few years and judging by the loads that I have been flying over the last few weeks it will continue to do so in the future.

I have not seen the easyJet advert, so I am unable to comment upon it. However, I did see a Ryanair advert today's Times which was in poor taste.

Chocks Wahay
24th Sep 2001, 20:51
2500 - I saw the same ad in this morning's Times - something along the lines of "The best response to terrorism is to keep flying, so book a seat with Ryanair in our sooper sale". Very poor taste, I imagine there will be a few complaints

26th Sep 2001, 22:20
Now EZY have BALPA's veiled disapproval. In their recent letter to all members, the Gen Sec states:

"Some airlines are arguing that carriers with problems in the current environment are just bad airlines and they deserve no support. This is, we believe, wrong and opportunistic..."

So, EZY pilots who are also members of BALPA - your association disapproves of Stelios' posturing and ranting.

I also find the Ryanair campaign brazen and opportunistic but I suppose it is a tough commercial world.

Hand Solo
27th Sep 2001, 04:31
Well if Stelios is so opposed to state aid for UK airlines in these times, why don't we invite Southwest over to do business? We can give them domestic rights,they can set up a nice little operation out of LTN utilising all that lovely US Federal aid and we'll see how long easyjet lasts! A man so principled as Stelios would never consider asking for state aid himself, even if he found his competitors being subsidised to the tune of billions of dollars and never being allowed to go bankrupt.

27th Sep 2001, 10:06
Sympathies to all those suffering from the current down turn, but equally more strength to the arms of the low-costs. It is obvious that many have realised what a bad deal they were getting from the big boys and as a result, have transferred to Go, EasyJet, RyanAir and buzz. If your travel plans can be made in advance and you don't feel the need for complimentary grog and hot meal on a quick intra-European flight, the cheap 'n cheerful way is the way to go!
Thanks to buzz I can afford to fly to FRA far more frequently than if I had to suffer 'second class treatment' in Economy on LH.....and no b£oody Lufthansakaesbroetchen or being offered a drink at top-of-drop either!!

LTN man
27th Sep 2001, 10:45
I hear that Easy had only 5 passengers on their late evening Nice flight a few days back. Also their timetable was in shatters yesterday as they were reluctant to send aircraft into LTN as the RVR’s were hovering around the 200m mark. As it turned out they could have made it in but flights were showing 3 hour delays by lunchtime.

27th Sep 2001, 10:56
LTN man, just to inform you that their actually was 6 pax to NCE the other night this is probably due to the fact that it is the end of the season and that flight was a great success during the summer however the timetable of this flight will change in the next few weeks for the winter season.
Also the RVR situation if the RVR is less than 200m the flights can't come in no matter who makes a decision, it is illegal to make or continue an approach if the minimums are not required, therefore as OPS are also in contact with ATC if the RVR minimum is not met then why let the planes try an approach and a GO-round that wastes fuel?

27th Sep 2001, 11:20
LTN man

what is the point in sending an aircraft to destination when it is below limits?divert and inconvenience pax even further?For your info added problems were caused by 1-3 hour slot delays into ams due fog,

LTN man
27th Sep 2001, 21:50
I wonder when Stelios was shopping for new aircraft whether it crossed his mind that shiny new 737’s are not the best aircraft to use in Foggy Luton. Maybe he should have bought some Cat 3b Airbuses.

28th Sep 2001, 10:36
So what are you suggesting LTN man, that EJ. operate a mixed fleet or qualify all their crews onto the Scairbus? I wonder if it ever crossed your mind of the costs involved in doing all this? Ask airlines like Sabena of what are the costs involved in changing from a perfectly good fleet of Boeings to a new fleet of Busses.
Anyway not having a go at you LTN man just expressing my point of view.
Regards Bokkie449.

28th Sep 2001, 12:41
Stelios seems to think he can bully the whole world into his way of thinking by shouting his mouth off.

1. My understanding is EasyJet (like now defunct Debonair) had 2 year mega-discount on landing fees. When it was time to cough up for the help from LTN to get going, he starts screaming blue murder. Reminds me of my 2 year old.. difference is he is now learning that there are TWO sides to every bargain.

2. Stelios may have an argument for wanting any aid to be directed purely at the consequences of the terrorist attack, and ensuring the playing field remains level. BA and VS share those concerns, given their exposure on the atlantic, and the aid given to US airlines.

3. I would suggest that all airport and passenger taxes be refunded, not to the airlines, but directly to the passenger. That way all airlines have a carrot to give their passengers to come back to air travel, which in turn would feed through to hotels, bus companies etc etc.

Frankly Stelios is capitalising on the most outrageous terrorist attack ever, and has shown himself to be immature and politically ignorant. May ALL airlines get back to where we were on September 10th before we start squabbling amongst ourselves.

Jaun Huw Nose
28th Sep 2001, 12:51
Seems to me like a lot of companies (not just aviation )are useing the 11th as an excuse to do some finacial pruning they wouldn't have got away with before. I don't see how S can pay all the lease fees, but then we dont have "the verticaly intergated overview".......

28th Sep 2001, 13:13
Stelios has now alledgedly got £15m less to play with as he needed it to prop up his internet empire. The business plan of which he commented on recently as being pure madness!!

I thought it was doing quite well ?

With all the announcements about BFS what price will easy get now for its landing fees there?? Quite handy time to negotiate, just as they complete the deal for LTN.

Anyone now anymore?? :)