ATC hours

[Charlie Roy]

I know you guys work night and day, weekends and bank holidays, so I was wondering do you still work 40 hours per week? Maybe less?

Is there a legal maximum you are allowed to work per week/month?
Is there a maximum length of any particular shift?
In general, is there a tendance to get days off scheduled together, or is that just if you are lucky?
Do ye get the same amount of annual leave as other professionals, or do ye get more?
Would you still get at least one guaranteed weekend off per month?

I'm just curious to the lifestyle of a Air Traffic Controller as it may be a career I am considering...

Thanks in advance,
CR.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

The most popular system in NATS is the 5-watch.. that's roughly - 2 mornings of about 7 hours followed by 2 afternoons of around 8 hours followed by two nights of about 9 hours followed by a sleep day and 3 days off. Because it's busier during the day and more staff are required, some staff will be rostered for day duties whilst their colleagues work the nights. So, for example, those guys might work 2 mornings, and 4 afternoons followed by 4 days off. Some cycles have a day off in the middle so at the end you get just 3 days off on the trot. There are variations to this pattern depending on local arrangements, but the basics are similar. There are no guarantees of weekends off but the watch system follows a regular 6-on, 4-off pattern so you can work out when you'll get a weekend off months or years in advance. If you become a shift worker, weekends mean nothing but it's a real joy to have days off during the week when the plebs are all working!

Annual leave for an experienced controller is about 6-weeks plus public holidays. This means that if you take a 6-day cycle as leave you get two weeks off (4 days before, 6 days leave, 4 days after). If you work your leave right you can get a lot of time off. It's obviously more difficult to get leave in the summer so local arrangements generally guarantee a certain amount of summer leave then you spread the rest of your time off around the year. In winter leave is usually easier to take on days of your choice.

I've met very few people who get as much time off as I used to - some of my neighbours thought I was unemployed. It's totally magic.

[clicker]

I work a similar shift, albeit not ATC, and the nice thing about it is that you only work 2 days and then get a reasonable time before the next shift starts. That allows you to get the odd tasks, like shopping:*, out of the way and you don't feel so tired.

[chevvron]

We work non 24 hours and 6 on 3 off (3 earlies - 0645 - 1400, 3 lates - 1345 - 2200, 3 days off), thus we work more days a year than 24 hour units for much less pay. (Yes I know I'm a stirrer!)

[SilentHandover]

Just in case anyone was feeling sorry for Chevv.

Do you still only open 0800-2000 Local at weekends and Bank holidays?
Do you still close early if there is no traffic?
Do you get every 25th and 26th of December off?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Chev also thinks "nights" are blokes in suits of armour!!

[Spitoon]

Charlie also asked about legal limits. Although not strictly 'legal', the rules for how long controllers in the UK can work etc. are in Part D of this (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP670.PDF) document. Be warned that it's a 1.5 MB download.

[SM4 Pirate]

http://www.wagenet.gov.au/WageNet/Search/View.ASP?docid=276791&query=(AIRSERVICES%20AUSTRALIA)&quickview=Y

This is the current Oz contract; we work 36 hour weeks on average over a roster period (most acquit over 6 weeks). Some weeks you may do 48 hours or so, but less the next week etc.

Shift length is 6 or more, but always less than 10; unless you reach agreement under what's called a facilitative arrangement; then you're fair game to take whatever is dished out...

Roster is at least three consectuvie shifts rostered, but you only get two days off assured after 5 days on, so you can do 4 on one off for a while... but the hours still must be no more than 36 hours a week on average.

We get 5 weeks leave or 6 weeks if you work 24/7 shifts; but we lose public holidays (so it works out to be less than normal folk), which we get paid for, rostered on or off (although it's less 'extra' pay for rostered off).

[jangler909]

Finland:
- 33-38 hours / week depending on the unit (I do 35 hours in a medium size TWR/APP)
- 6-10h shifts, absolute maximum is 12 hours (standard weekday shifts in my unit are 7-7,5h)
- no standard shift system in use, it's completely "wild" - wishes of any kind can be made (days off or specific shifts) and usually are arranged. I actually managed to get 7 days off recently without using any leave - I just love shift work! :ok:
- at least 9 hours of rest between shifts (7 if the controller in question accepts)
- at least one 24 hour break between any monday-sunday -period
- under no circumstance more than 12 shifts in a row without days off
- 2,5 days of leave per month, after 15 years of service 3 days

[USA ATCER]

[quote=Charlie Roy;2816904]I know you guys work night and day, weekends and bank holidays, so I was wondering do you still work 40 hours per week? Maybe less?

Is there a legal maximum you are allowed to work per week/month?
Is there a maximum length of any particular shift?
In general, is there a tendance to get days off scheduled together, or is that just if you are lucky?
Do ye get the same amount of annual leave as other professionals, or do ye get more?
Would you still get at least one guaranteed weekend off per month?

I'm just curious to the lifestyle of a Air Traffic Controller as it may be a career I am considering...


In the USA most of us who work at 24 hour facilities work a 2-2-1 schedule. We start the week off with two evening shifts usually 3-11pm, 2-10pm then 2 day shifts usually 7am-3pm, 7am-3pm and then come back that night for an overnight shift 11pm-7am. Thats the kind of schedule I work as well as the controller in the recent Comair crash. As far as leave goes we get an average of about 4 weeks a year plus 10 paid holidays and 13 days of sick leave.

Dan

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

Here in the Middle East we work basically the same as the first reply. Supervisors and Deputy Supervisors work the 6 on (2 Morning, 2 Afternoon, 2 Afternoon), Sleep, 3 off. The rest of the guys here though get screwed by at least once a month working the 6 days on, having sleep day and one day off and then back for another 6. Still with the long break when changing from Mornings to afternoons and from afternoons to nights, it craps all over any of the horrible rosters I worked in Australia where you had the minimum break between shifts, trying to cram 4 shifts into 3 days. That was no way to live!!!!
To chevvron, you are barking up the wrong tree if you think you will get sympathy for working 6 on 3 off with no nightshifts. Nightshifts are what kill shiftworkers and I would easily give up my beloved sleep day for doing no nights shifts. In reality us "lucky" 24 hr units are working 7 days on and 3 days off cos I count a sleep day where I finish at 730am on my last nightshift as a work day.
BTW unlike the UK even though our nightshifts are also 9 hours long, it is our busiest shift. Go figure????:confused:
Oh and as far as annual leave goes we get 56 days a year, but that is Serco leave days, which are a bit strange. You don't burn leave for your rostered days off at the start of the leave period, but then burn leave for every subsequent day (including days you would have been rostered off) of your leave period. So if you take 14 days off you get the first sleep day and three days off for "free" and then burn 10 days leave for the next 6 rostered days and 4 days off. It works out you get more value for you leave if you take lots of single cycle leave periods than one big chunk. But again at least here there is a rule that all leave must be used every year, versus Oz where I just kept accumulating leave and never got to take it. No way to live again!!

[Charlie Roy]

Thanks a million for all the feedback. It's very much appreciated. If anybody has anything more to add then don't hesitate to post here or to PM.

Thanks :ok:

[Scott Voigt]

Dan;

Don't forget to tell them that we get to work on the holiday for the most part and get paid for them. We don't actually usually get them off. As to the vacation days, it depends on how long you have worked for the govt. You start out getting four hours of leave a pay period (every two weeks.) It then goes up to six hours a pay period after (I think) five years, and then to eight hours a pay period after 15 years. The sick leave comes in four hour incriments every pay period. The FAA however frowns on you actually using it...

regards

Scott

[Gonzo]

I've always wondered about why people include 'sick days' in their leave. Could you explain a little more about that? Does that really mean paid sick days? If you get 8 days sick leave a year, do you not get paid if you have a ninth day off sick?

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

And don't forget that at busy units the amount of time one actually spends working will be limited to maybe 1.5 or 2 hours before having a half hour break. So, although one has to attend "the office" for 7 hours, one might only work for 5. During winter months, when less people are on leave, it may be somewhat less.

I can't speak for nowadays, but when I worked at Heathrow and Terminal Control my attendances for the year usually amounted to about 180 days, so I got much, much more time off than some school teachers I know... and that really peeved them!!

[frogATC]

Hi everybody,

For France:

- 32h a week
- 6-day cycle: 3 days on, 3 days off (first day starts early, second day is a "normal" day and last one is a late evening or a night)
- Holidays: 8 cycles + 7 days

regards

[Dr. Evil]

For France:

- 32h a week
- 6-day cycle: 3 days on, 3 days off (first day starts early, second day is a "normal" day and last one is a late evening or a night)
- Holidays: 8 cycles + 7 days

frogATC

So why are you "frogs" on strike so often??? :p

[Spitoon]

How do you think they got
- 32h a week
- 6-day cycle: 3 days on, 3 days off (first day starts early, second day is a "normal" day and last one is a late evening or a night)
- Holidays: 8 cycles + 7 days:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[chevvron]

Don't know about you lot but all that cycling would wear me out.

[Scott Voigt]

Sounds like all of us should strive to work for France <G>... We would kill for that kind of a work schedule and leave away from ATC...

regards

Scott

[DirtyPierre]

Here in Brissie, we had an aviation careers expo. I attended as a representative of Airservices Australia (my employer). We had a recording of some Brisbane Approach south playing on a large screen monitor, and I noticed a nice young lady was watching it with rapt attention.

I said hello and she asked me about the recording and what was happening. I answered her questions and asked if she was thinking of becoming a controller. I had also detected an accent.

She told me she was a French controller from Strasbourg. Her name Amelie. Ahhhh.......

Anyway, when we asked about her working conditions.....well we all wanted to emigrate to France (and Strasbourg too).

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Older readers will remember the bad old days when the Spanish and French controllers seemed to be on strike every other week. Now those guys are reaping the huge benefits of their actions......

[45 before POL]

Strike???.............. best i think we are likely to get is maybe a free coffee and a Fimble for christmas!:}

[Dances with Boffins]

Work? France? Methinks me Texan colleague has been supping from the cactus again:E

[begbie]

it's a real joy to have days off during the week when the plebs are all working!



So true. You can't beat starting a beer session at Monday, Tues, Wed, Thurs, Friday lunchtime while the office bods grab a quick pint in their hurried lunch hour!!

[zesheriff]

I think that somehow it's the French choice for living : getting less money, but working less... Totally opposite to our American friends ;)

But if we'd compare our actual wages for an hour of work, I suppose we would be in the same range... :ok:

Is it possible to work half-time for ATCOs in your countries ? (in France it is ! :rolleyes: )

[Scott Voigt]

We have some folks who have worked part time schedules in the US, but it appears that the FAA is frowning upon that of late... Who knows where they are going to go with that...

regards

Scott

[Scotsliveit]

Begbie
Those office bods in the pubs with their mates watching the big match while you're at work or sleeping it off.