Is an ATPL given a university degree status

[drizzle]

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If I have a UK ATPL or JAR ATPL and I wish to apply for a job which has an entry requirement for a degree or degree level equivalant (teaching), does the ATPL count ?
A search has not revealed the answer.
Many thanks
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[Lucifer]

No, it does not.
ATPLs are not QAA approved degree courses in their own right.
Unless structured within a degree course, such as new degree courses arising at the moment, it does not meet study time or academic rigour requirements.

[DC-8]

As the last resort you could try to get the Uni. degree validation in Spain, 'cos here is possible.

You just need your unfrozen ATPL and a copy of your High School degree.

Here is the link from the COPAC: http://www.copac.es/webcopac/nueva/Colegiado/servicios/tramitacion-diplomatura-universitaria.pdf (I'm sorry it's in Spanish)

[effortless]

Now let me see: three years guided study at a centre of learning; thirty essays a year for three years; twenty thousand word dissertation; ten thousand word project; exams every years; lord knows how many books read and a viva. An ATPL takes what?

[Chesty Morgan]

If you did the NVQ tax relief thingy that was about a few years ago, AND you filled in the necessary paperwork at the time then yes.

I've got one. A level 4 NVQ (which I believe is the equivalent to a degree) in Piloting Transport Aircraft.

[5150]

I have both, but I worked a damn sight harder for my ATPL exams than I did four years at University!!!!

[planeshipcar]

Just like to point out that a degree is about 20 weeks a year (yeah don't forget to take away all those weeks of holidays!) for three years, with some subjects only lasting 7 hours a week if that.

How long is an integrated ATPL or even modular - it takes atleast a year on a five day working week!

Anyway, some unis like kingston in london/surrey will do a years top up for a degree throught distance learning. - might be worth a try!

[5150]

To answer your question tho - a degree is a degree and an ATPL is a pilot's licence.
They are two seperate things and although they each show a level of commitment to studying (one moreso than the other in my view), if they are specifying a degree as a pre-requisite for a job, unless they are an airline and you are appling for a job as a pilot, I'd be surprised if they even know what an ATPL is........

[BizJetJock]

Many years ago the CAA used to claim that an ATPL was equivalent to an honours degree as a way to justify a lot of the cr*p in the exams. I don't think the JAA even attempt to try and justify it.:ugh:

[PAPI-74]

Going back to the topic of NVQ. What a shame that was written off. I heard that the government claimed that the system was abused by PPL'ers who had no intention of getting the Professional Licence.
If this was the case, why the hell wasn't the system tweaked to give the TAX relief when the CPL was issued?
or have I got the wrong end of the stick?

[Spitoon]

As 5150 points out, degree and ATPL (or any aviation licence) are different beasts. If a job has a general entry requirement of a degree the chances are that the employer is looking for the ability to study and retain knowledge of a complex nature and to have an ability to analyse the info and present structured arguments etc.

Sadly, many employers appear to use it as a way of managing the response they get to a vacancy notice rather than because they are going to use the successful applicant's skills learned during the degree-level study.

But from a practical perspective, if the job is not aviation related it's unlikely that the employer is going to know what is involved with getting an ATPL and it shouldn't be too difficult to hint that studying enough stuff for someone to trust you to fly a B747 around the world is as good as a degree in meeja studies (and I'll apologise now to anyone who takes exception to such comments 'cos they've got one!).

Of course, all this is rubbish if a specific degree is needed......say if the vacancy is for a doctor or something similar.;) ;) ;)

I'm not sure from your original post whether you mean the job that you wish to apply for is as a teacher. If so, I'm not certain but I think in the UK to teach you either have to have a degree specifically designed for prospective teachers or you have to do a post grad add-on to a first degree to be suitably qualified. I would suggest a call to your local Careers Office - regardless of your age (and assuming they still exist) to see - if not having a degree is a show-stopper. They may also have practical advice to offer about the equivalence of professional qualifications to more commonly recognised bits of paper.

Whatever, good luck.

[supergimp]

Now let me see: three years guided study at a centre of learning; thirty essays a year for three years; twenty thousand word dissertation; ten thousand word project; exams every years; lord knows how many books read and a viva. An ATPL takes what?



Effortless

An ATPL theory takes 6 months, 9:00 – 17:00, 5 days a week, add another two hours per night for further study, providing you pass everything first time, which many do not. Flight training takes 10 weeks, averaging 4 hours per day. You show me a student alive today that puts that much work into his studies for the average degree.

[Piltdown Man]

It depends on the what tit in Human Remains who sifts the replies thinks. I wouldn't let a little thing like not having a degree put me off applying. Don't forget that you get an A Level nowadays by sending away three packet tops off your favourite breakfast cereal and writing your address correctly on the application form. I believe the going rate for a Desmond is five tops, but I could be wrong!

[Re-Heat]

Many people make the mistake of assuming that hour spend in a classroom at university are correlated to work undertaken. I must stress that it is reading for a degree that is of greater importance, especially beyond science subject, therefore the criticism is misplaced. At any top university, this will require hours in the library exploring texts and contemplating arguments and counter-arguments.

An ATPL is emphatically not a degree nor is comparable to a degree.

It is a vocational, professional qualification, which requires a high degree of hands-on teaching, but little development of new theory, critical analysis, formulation of argument, or (god forbid) experimentation.

[NinjaBill]

IME, The ATPL exams are about as difficult as sitting 10 or 11 GCSEs,

Some of it a bit technical, but not very, some of it dull, but just needs remembering. None of it needs any skill in reasoning. There is just lots of it. In the same way as I had to remember loads of useless info about WW2 to pass a GCSE in history, I had to remember loads of crap on the chicago convention for Air Law. I had to do some basic maths to pass a Physics GCSE, and I had to do some basic maths in Gen Nav.

To pass, all you have to do is tick a few boxes on a multiple guess exam, its hardly comparable to writing a final year paper.

[effortless]

Effortless

An ATPL theory takes 6 months, 9:00 – 17:00, 5 days a week, add another two hours per night for further study, providing you pass everything first time, which many do not. Flight training takes 10 weeks, averaging 4 hours per day. You show me a student alive today that puts that much work into his studies for the average degree.

Any engineer, physicist, mathematician, even me, a poor old biologist, yes I did go to university when Her Majesty needed me no longer and let me tell you that it was harder than flying training in its intellectual demands.

If it is any consolation, a degree is getting more like flying training since students are required less to enquire and more to learn by rote.

In flying training you learn by practice not by enquiry. I do not remember any of my instructors asking me to add my tuppence worth. My third year project however was published.

[Cron]

In the UK you do not need any formal qualifications to get into teaching.

School heads have long had the power to recruit who they want (all stemmed from the shortage of Math's teachers).

It's not widely made known or admitted to.

Once in post they send you off for part time Teacher training - which satifies all parties. For FE and HE, if it is a shortage area, the story is the same.

Of course the Police backgroud checks will apply in all cases.

If you have a reasonable grasp of GCSE math's and are prepared to move anywhere you will be on 25k within 2 months.

[parabellum]

"To pass, all you have to do is tick a few boxes on a multiple guess exam, its hardly comparable to writing a final year paper."

That may have been the case in your day Ninjabill but when I did my ATPL we had to write several essays in many subjects, especially Meteorology and also Nav Instruments and Radio Aids for example.

I showed the requirements for an ATPL to my sister, herself a graduate, (and in teaching) and she said that the theoretical knowledge requirement, as then laid down in a leaflet, would qualify for a minor degree, depending on the depth of examination. There are some subject that require a whole lot less personal interpretation and there is no room for developing arguments, counter arguments or theories, Geography, for one.

[Re-Heat]

There are some subject that require a whole lot less personal interpretation and there is no room for developing arguments, counter arguments or theories, Geography, for one.
How silly of me to think there is nothing more to learn from Geography, considering the mass of journals in publication (http://www.colorado.edu/geography/virtdept/resources/journal/journals.htm) and scientific research taking place.

[NinjaBill]

"To pass, all you have to do is tick a few boxes on a multiple guess exam, its hardly comparable to writing a final year paper."
That may have been the case in your day Ninjabill but when I did my ATPL we had to write several essays in many subjects, especially Meteorology and also Nav Instruments and Radio Aids for example.
I showed the requirements for an ATPL to my sister, herself a graduate, (and in teaching) and she said that the theoretical knowledge requirement, as then laid down in a leaflet, would qualify for a minor degree, depending on the depth of examination. There are some subject that require a whole lot less personal interpretation and there is no room for developing arguments, counter arguments or theories, Geography, for one.

It sounds like your ATPL exams were a lot more difficult that the ones I sat a few months ago. I'm not sure who takes 6 months full time to pass, but I took 4 months per module (2 of) doing a couple of hours a night after work, (I work about 50hrs a week) and then 2 weeks of full time study at Bristol.

[skydriller]

Just like to point out that a degree is about 20 weeks a year (yeah don't forget to take away all those weeks of holidays!) for three years, with some subjects only lasting 7 hours a week if that!

Oh Really? And what kind of pointless meeeja studyiez degree would that be then?

I recall my B-Eng (Hons) in Aerospace Engineering being just a tad more work than that!!! - and it took 4 years (inc practical placements).