Delta Air Lines

[N830MH]

Hi all,

After I heard about Delta rumor start new nonstop ATL-TLV in Spring 2006. After I will get official PR from Delta next week. We will plans go to Israel for next year in July 2006. I am not sure what time with the flight to TLV. What about overnight flight from TLV-ATL will be arrive early morning for connecting at ATL hub. I am really looking forward to hear from Delta are very welcome back to TLV almost 5 years. These are cut with the flight JFK-TLV last 4 years ago prior 9/11.

I can't wait to hear Delta is flying to TLV for next year. They will be on the B777 to Israel. Thank you for the support with Delta bring back to Israel.

[N830MH]

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/050927/86811.html

After for Delta Connection are very welcome back to DFW with 2x daily roundtrip to MCO. It is not an focus city at DFW.

[N830MH]

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/050927/86808.html

These are very welcome back with BOS-NAS on Saturday only to the Bahamas. I remember currently with Saturday only on Delta Shuttle to NAS prior 9/11. It will be beginning on Dec. 17.

[No_Speed_Restriction]

about time!

shana tova

[Desk Driver]

An announcment due tomorrow from Delta re new international routes. I suspect at least 1 from a UK regional airport.

Does anyone know anymore

[goldeneye]

Yes reports indicate that its going to be Edinburgh to Atlanta, see The Scotsman (http://news.scotsman.com/edinburgh.cfm?id=2092402005)

[GrahamK]

I suspect MAN-JFK may also be announced

[GoEDI]

ATL-EDI should be confirmed tomorrow, expect year-round B763.:)

[HH6702]

Delta could be adding a new route into NCL.

They have been in talks with newcastle for over a year now on routes to the US.

[MarkD]

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/17/business/delta.php

[jamesbrownontheroad]

"International markets have had far better pricing power than domestic markets," said Michael Allen, Back Aviation's chief operating officer.

At long last, the American big boys are facing up to the hard truths that BA did long (sic) ago... should be very interesting to watch these new routes in the long term.

*j*

[akerosid]

Interesting to see that they want to make SNN-ATL Summer only; I wonder what the Irish authorities will make of this. Effectively, it will make 2:1 in favour of Dublin.

Of course, they may know of some new development planned as a result of EU/US Open Skies. Under the current arrangement, this would be verboden. Perhaps they've been made aware of changes which will allow a Summer only service? Or is it effectively a call on the Irish govt to agree to this ... or else lose the lot?

One can't help asking what kind of business there is on SNN-NYC to sustain three airlines through the Winter - EI, CO and DL.

[eggc]

The 11 new routes include three already announced, linking Atlanta to Tel Aviv, Dusseldorf and Copenhagen, along with eight new ones, from Atlanta to Edinburgh, Athens and Venice and from New York J.F.K airport to Budapest, Dublin, Manchester, Kiev and Nice.

[WATABENCH]

Both Delta and AA names have been flying around BRS for a while in connection with a possible BOS route, not thought to be daily though, would be nice to see as CO's New York service has started pulling in good pax figs and proving its worth to both US an UK carriers - Would be excellent to see one of them here but I suspect nothing will come of the speculation.

[WHBM]

Well this all looks very well. Major US corporation declares bankruptcy, stiffs their investors and creditors and fails to honour their commitments.

Then their management, still the SAME management as I understand it, decides the next month they actually have enough cash in the pot to incur high speculative startup costs on a range of new ventures. How nice to be a commercial airline in other parts of the world having to compete commercially against this.

New York to Manchester. Head-on to BA who have been having difficulty for years in making the daily 767 pay. Now someone with no money is going to try and share the route.

Atlanta to Edinburgh. Well I suppose it will be fine for a few connections to Disney World. But there's only a population base of 5 million in Scotland, and few year-round intercontinental services (Emirates only succeeds by marketing through service to the whole of Asia and Australia).

[baps]

New Delta routes to Uk are ATL-EDI and and JFK-MAN.

[FFHKG]

All is revealed

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051018/BIZ01/510180327/1002/BIZ

[eggc]

BA's MAN to JFK is always full and makes a fortune...

The MAN - NYC route also sustains 2 x daily EWR with COA - again usually full !

oops you live in London - say no more ! that explains your uninformed response.

[Centre cities]

Continental do not appear to be nearly always full if you look at their web site. Also a reduction to a single 757 for most of the winter perhaps indicates that there are to many seats chasing to few passengers, especially in the winter months.

Centre cities

[GrahamK]

MAN-EWR will be a 767-400 this winter, not a 757

[teifiboy]

eggc - get rid of that chip, you are totally missing the point

WHBM makes an excellent point though you are getting defensive and taking it as an anti-Manchester comment.

It is a scandal and so ironic that a country such as the USA, that puts so much emphasis on anti trust matters allows its airlines to carry on competing under bankruptcy protection. It is not a level playing field and affects our aviation job prospects in this country.

[ManchesterMan]

WHBM

Your ignorance shines through.....

MM

Teifiboy

Americans do not DO Irony.....

MM

[FLCH]

Continental has been running a 767-200 and a 757 daily to MAN, usually in the winter a single 767-400 (or 777) makes the run, most of the time they seem to be full, well at least when I have to fly them..just my 2 cents worth.

[Hunter58]

... which has been 3 days out of 7 the last 5 month? Or at the start of school holidays?

[eggc]

According to the system DL154 / 155, JFK - MAN, will be operated by a 764 !!

[Going loco]

The most up to date data I have from the CAA says that on BA's MAN-JFK route, 86% of the passengers originate in the UK and 90% of the passengers are travelling for 'leisure' and 10% for 'business'. Relatively few leisure travellers will upgrade themselves to business and not all passengers travelling on business will be on a business class ticket so yields on this must be low. BA probably are making some money out of it but if a 86% UK based and 90% leisure orientated route was "highly profitable" then BA would be running flights to here there and everywhere from across the UK. Generally only very dense lesiure orientated routes such as MCO succeed with low yields on long stage lengths.

loco

[Tom the Tenor]

Can anyone advise if the reinstated DL DUB-JFK is being complemented by a new DL SNN-ATL to get around the nasty snn stopover in the same way as AA now fly SNN-DUB so that a DUB-ORD can be flown directly from Dublin?

Thanks, TtT.

[akerosid]

I was actually trying to work out how they're doing this, because the SNN-ATL service will become Summer only, so at the end of Summer 06, DL will have the triangular JFK-DUB-SNN-JFK service, plus nonstop DUB-ATL. Since they fly JFK-DUB nonstop, isn't that effectively two for one, or do they count the flights based on outbound from Ireland?

I wonder if things will change once the new Open Skies arrangement comes into being?

[Mr A Tis]

Don't forget the Delta MAN-JFK is a re-instatement of a route suspended about 4 years ago.
I flew the route in August 2000, B763 almost half the aircraft was C class seating, which was 100% full.
Now, if only we could get someone to do a west coast non-stop....

[Scottie Dog]

Interesting to note - from early loadings in the GDS - that the re-introduced Manchester service appears to be offering a one-class service only.

Can one assume that they will be doing an 'American Airlines' and will be using a domestic aircraft and offering the First Class cabin to full Y class fare paying passengers?

Scottie Dog

[WHBM]

Well I must apologise to those who came here to read a discussion about Delta Airlines and their proposed UK and other European routes, only to have to wade through a string of personal attacks on me from the Manchester set for having dared to write the truth about yields at their local airport ...... !

And yield is indeed, ladies and gentlemen, what it is all about. Not bums on seats or load factors, but money in the till. I remember covering the same ground long ago reviewing the UK rail industry and the absence of revenue on one particular route. One opinion returned was that if only "the fares were halved the trains would be full". When I asked what purpose that would serve for the finances there was the same belief as seen here, that if it was full it must be profitable.

And this is exactly the problem that the mainstream US carriers have got into. I believe load factors within the US are pretty much at an all-time high, and yet they are all steadily one-by-one going bankrupt. It's because they have their yields wrong, and their costs too high, and quite why they cannot see it I do not understand.

Many UK IT operators tend to run pretty close to 100% loads. And look how many of those have come and gone over the years. There's more to it than that.

[concorde001]

"New York to Manchester. Head-on to BA who have been having difficulty for years in making the daily 767 pay. Now someone with no money is going to try and share the route."

Firstly, I do not live in Manchester, or in the 'north', my comments are not biased.
Regarding the MAN-JFK route....from what I have been told, and when I have monitored the loads for about 6-8 weeks, here is my conclusion!
BA's MAN-JFK route is quite profitable. About four years ago I think, the Manchester Evening News newspaper (I think) had a special article on Manchester. BA reported then that MAN-JFK made them about 1.5 - 2 million pounds a year in proft. Now, even I thought it was strange for an airline to disclose this type of information to the press - but there you go! This was before 9/11 and they also stated that they wanted to expand at MAN - (obviously not)! So you can make of this information what you will!
However, when I monitored the loads on BA1502/1503 the whole of June, C regularly showed 0 in Amadeus not to mention Economy! On the whole, most longhaul out of MAN does quite well - SQ's 5 direct MAN-SIN and 2 one-stop MAN-ZRH-SIN are regularly full - If anyone of you try to book MAN-SIN in Nov/Dec, Business and Economy are all full!
I know it all depends on how much an airline charges for each fare, so I could monitor loads all I want, and it still wouldn't know if a flight was profitable! However, if BA's MAN-JFK was not profitable, why would BA continue with the flight since 9/11 when they have made cuts galore? BA is no longer the airline that operates LONGHAUL routes at a loss, so I think that tells us something at least about the profitability of MAN-JFK!

[Railgun]

BA's MAN-JFK could make better profits with a aircraft that is not like stepping back in time when you get on board. A refit is in the pipeline but the 767 duskings seem to be taking forever......

[ManchesterMan]

Concorde001

Bloody hell ! A reasonable paragraph or two.
Things are looking up!

Congrats

MM

[StoneyBridge Radar]

Interesting to note - from early loadings in the GDS - that the re-introduced Manchester service appears to be offering a one-class service only.

Can one assume that they will be doing an 'American Airlines' and will be using a domestic aircraft and offering the First Class cabin to full Y class fare paying passengers?

Initially yes, but not for the same reason as AA.

It's just until the 764s are reconfigured to International Biz Elite standard, as they currently carry domestic F seats.

Makes you wonder how much of a shot gun decision it was to send them transatlantic if the product won't be ready in time.

[flyingmad]

Correct
This service is to be reinstated at last!!!!!!!

[Oshkosh George]

Surely this cannot go on much longer?

http://money.cnn.com/2005/12/01/news/fortune500/delta.reut/index.htm

[Barry Coomer]

Anyone used Delta Manchester to New York JFK ?
Just booked, seemed best deal available.
Only really used BA or VS on transatlantic before.

[GrahamK]

Flights havent started yet :)

[Barry Coomer]

D'Oh ! As they say !
Delta from UK in general anyone ?

[Railgun]

Dont know about Delta but BA have finally got a refurbished 767 on the JFK that is now has 3 class's.

[concorde001]

Delta are using a 767-400 on the route, but the aircraft is configured with US Domestic seats - the flight is being sold as all economy. There is a 'First Class', but it is US domestic 'first' and these seats will be reserved for priority frequent flyers (though you may be able to book one at the airport - not sure)! There are no PTVs (personal TVs) but there are screens hanging from the ceiling.
For more info, click here:

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Delta_Airlines/Delta_Airlines_Boeing_767-400.php

[HON 1R]

Flights start 15th May.

[Localiser Green]

Isn't this a re-instated route? My memory may be failing me here but I'm sure Delta used to operate MAN-JFK with 763s a few years ago, then discontinued the route?

Continental also use a 767-400 on their MAN-EWR route, which might be a better bet as they have PTVs in all classes. But then, as was mentioned above, so do BA in their 'dusked' 767-300 on the MAN-JFK route now.

[GrahamK]

Continental will be opping 2 Daily 757s on MAN-EWR this summer

[BAforever]

With Delta Due to recieve 10 leased ex AA B757 Will they be using them Trans Atlantic to Europe and if so where.:ok: What do you think the loads will be like? Thanks.

[OltonPete]

Depends on who you believe re transatlantic flights.

I think the official announcement of the deal did not directly
mention transatlantic use (could be wrong on that one)
but on another well known forum DL employees have stated that
internal e-mails do mention that they will be considered for
transatlantic.

They seem to be certainly going for it International wise at JFK
and they have also added quite a few domestic feeds in to JFK
recently as well.

However I believe July 2007 is the earliest in service date quoted thus
far for the first aircraft.

As for routes, the armchair CEO's ;) have them dedicated already
with the usual suspects - JFK - BFS, JFK-BHX, JFK - GLA to
name but a few - all pure speculation.

Somewhere it was mentioned that there might be an announcement in
November of the first routes.

The 10 aircraft are ETOPS so transantlantic and Honolulu are
possibles as well as transcon.

As for the viability, I believe that BHX could take another
couple of 757's across the pond and DL stand as good
a chance if not better than others.

Pete

BTW the new LGW-JFK will be DL001/2 - 763 though

[BAforever]

On the routes, BFS is getting very good loads with CO from Newark. But can it sustain more New York Flights? I agree than BHX could have more NYC flights. But i thought that the Scotland market was saturated with US flights so would that really be viable. What about new markets not seved from the US.

Quick queryon another well known forum DL employees have stated that
internal e-mails do mention that they will be considered for
transatlantic.
Please could you show a link Pete. Thanks

[johnrizzo2000]

BHX does fine with the CO flightsLoads are good, but thats just with 10 weekly. Another flight would be overkill. I cant see BFS service from another airline. The loads on CO's flight have taken time to build as word spreads about the service

[OltonPete]

There are plenty of airports with large catchment areas with no flights
to JFK/EWR but whether Delta would stick their neck out even with their current aggressive International expansion, I am not so sure.

Newcastle, Leeds and Cardiff spring to mind but with the former having
already ready suffered from AA's cold feet I am not so sure. Leeds
is fairly close to Manchester (an excuse BHX always has to live with) and Cardiff is not to far from Bristol with CO operating modestly.

Re Scotland, GSM has certainly added seats this year with Florida and next year with Boston but at least AA is leaving the Glasgow - Chicago route and this might be enough to tempt Delta.

However I would never of guessed at Liverpool - EWR but GSM are going
to do it. I am sure that Delta will have plenty more European
destinations in their sights from before plunging too deeply into the UK
market.

Hopefully the one thing on BHX, GLA and BFS have on their side is that
they are well within the range of the 757 although as we know Continental do stretch them to Berlin from Newark :eek: .

Pete

[BAforever]

NCL is probably i think quite likley as AA pulled out of the launch due to high fuel prices (I think). GSM will probably expanf more than there current routes so unlikley in Scotland.
Cardiff has Bristol nearby, (although being from S.Wales and travelling 8 times to NYC this year i've always gone LHR or LGW as its easier to get to London airports (Cardiff train station- London- Heathrow express, easy unlikle the voyage through bristol city centre wich is more stressful and takes about the same time. While CWL is 10 minutes away.) So I would use that service.
Leeds LBA is a strange one but it may take a NYflight on weekdays.:ok:

[brian_dromey]

I'd say DL will put most of the extra 757 capacity onto the American continent, and to pacific destinations such as HNL, etc. Then 767s will be displaced for transatlantic ops.

Americans have grown used to wide-bodies for trans continental, but thats gonna have to change, as aircraft like the 738 and 757 are far more fuel effecient, especially with the loads some airlines put into 762/763's

If DL do put some 757s on t/a though places like ORK and SNN, NCL,etc could make sense. DL have clearly stated hat they want to become a leading(did they say largest?) t/a operator. There are still plenty of oppertunitites to be exploited, especially in cities where there is no t/a link already.

[BAforever]

The 767 give to much capicity on to many routes, such as in the UK The 757 is perfect for long and thin routes. Also i cant see Delta pullin many 767 off trans con routes and will wait for next gen such as 787.
I can see 5/6 routes in the UK for Delta NCL, LBA, BHX, CWL, SHN/DUB They may put some 757 on trans con routes but not the 737, Jetblue tried it unsucsesfuly as they have a lower average speed, their econemy and americans as you said are used to widebodys on Trans cons.
Although they have had their 764 fitted with bizfirst so mabye internationals, with greater range they may go further east though.:ok:

[BAforever]

(apologies for not adding to old thread as did an advanced search and could find no Delta forum, thanks)

Does anyone who has inside knowledge know where and when these flights will be commencing. Thanks for the info.:ok:

[goldeneye]

Jetblue tried it unsucsesfuly as they have a lower average speed, their econemy and americans as you said are used to widebodys on Trans cons.

Can you clarify what you mean by that BAforever, ive flown Jetblue from NYC to Long Beach (LA) and this was an excellent flight.
Also looking at there website they seem to have alot for transcon flights ie New York to Seattle, Portland, Oakland, Sacramento, San Jose, Burbank, Ontario, Long Beach, San Diego and Vegas to name just the NYC transcons.

[BAforever]

On a longhaul transcon flight like NYC to Calofornia on a 737 profit margins are very low. I have never flown jetblue so wouldnt know about there service sorry.
Back onto Delta have anyone heard from someone in Delta about when/if the new routes will be anounced.:ok:

[daz211]

A friend at STN had told me that delta had been looking around
sat 1 and zone B of chk-in this was in may this year
I think that maxjet and eos might put them off STN

[BAforever]

They may be put off all London airports except LGW due to competition but what about UK regional airports. NCL probably seems most likley of them with CWL BFS BHX also quite likley.:ok:

[daz211]

I have to agree that airlines must be as jittery as the pax
on new tarnsatlantic routes and it seens just today maxjet
has announced a new route to vegas from stansted I
think that airlines like maxjet and eos will see pax numbers
rise and would think other carriers like them will pop up
all over the place

[BAforever]

I think to that regional airports are the way forward for trans atlantic NYC routes from the UK. The argument that for CWL to get a service BRS would have to go. Really i think that its unlikley for the BRS route to go with CO operating modestly on that route. I still think theres room for CWL on NYC route.:ok: With possibly greater numbers of tourists using CWL as The percentage of Americans using the BRS service is below that of the BFS service for example.
I still though of all the new routes NCL is the most likley of the lot.:ok: And of the ones alredy mentioned LBA is the most unlikley.

BA

[daz211]

DELTA AIRLINES
is kick-starting demand for its new service between Gatwick and New York JFK with lead-in prices starting at £604 including taxes and charges in the airline's BusinessElite class, the Times newspaper reports. Fares in economy are also being offered at £160 including taxes and charges.
The fares come with several restrictions. Flights must be booked by September 7 for journeys between November 15, the day the service is due to start, and March 21, 2007 with a blackout period over Christmas and New Year. There is also a Saturday night stay requirement.
The fare dramatically undercuts rival airlines over the same period. Return business class fares on Eos, Aer Lingus, Iberia and Air France are all around £1700 for November while British Airways is charging around £2000.

[BAforever]

Thise prices have been about since the announcemnet of the service. But your right they do seriously undercut there rivals hope to see more of their services around the UK soon!:ok:

[vapilot2004]

From the LA Times:

Talk of airline consolidation quiets down
US Air drops its bid for Delta. With the threat of a behemoth gone, carriers are less likely to merge, analysts say.
By Martin Zimmerman, Times Staff Writer
February 1, 2007


US Airways Group Inc.'s decision Wednesday to drop its hostile bid for Delta Air Lines Inc. has damped speculation that a wave of consolidation is about to sweep the industry.

Airline deals may still be in the offing this year, analysts said. But the failure of US Airway's high-profile effort sends a strong signal that the number of big domestic carriers is unlikely to shrink in the near future.

"I would say it's now much less likely that we'll see significant consolidation in 2007," said Jim Corridore, airline analyst for Standard & Poor's in New York. "I had thought it was imminent. Now, I think it's still possible but not really in the cards."

Tempe, Ariz.-based US Airways dropped its bid after the committee representing Delta's unsecured creditors in U.S. Bankruptcy Court threw its support behind Delta's plan to remain independent. The move ended a standoff between the two airlines that began in November, when US Airways offered $8 billion in cash and stock for its Atlanta-based rival.

Combining US Airways, the nation's seventh-largest carrier in terms of traffic, with No. 3 Delta would have created the world's biggest airline and was expected to kick off a scramble for merger partners among rivals looking to bulk up to remain competitive.

Removing a potential mega-carrier isn't the only factor working against consolidation, analysts said. U.S. airlines are expected to report more than $5 billion in profits for 2006, reversing years of losses and reducing the financial pressure to seek partners.

In addition, US Airways' bid for Delta ruffled feathers in Congress, where appearances last week by executives for the two airlines resulted in calls for increased regulation of the industry. The comments added to fears that the proposed tie-up would fail to pass muster with antitrust regulators, given concerns that combining the carriers' overlapping East Coast networks could lead to higher fares in that region.

"The Justice Department and Congress will not allow a wave of mergers," said Vaughn Cordle, chief executive of research firm Airline Forecasts in Washington. "It would create too much concentration and fares would go through the roof."

Although the merger talk has quieted for now, analysts predicted that consolidation would make a comeback at some point. They contend that the airline industry, despite its recent turnaround, still needs to reduce the number of available seats in an effort to prop up airfares. Cordle said the average ticket price, adjusted for inflation, was still 24% below the level of 2000.

Among the combinations bandied about: UAL Corp.'s United Airlines with Continental Airlines Inc., and AMR Corp.'s American Airlines with Alaska Air Group Inc.'s Alaska Airlines. Delta was even rumored to be talking with rival Northwest Airlines Corp. about a deal that would have thwarted the US Airways bid.

A UAL-Continental tie-up would combine United's strong transpacific route system with Continental's service to Europe and Latin America. A marriage of AMR and Alaska would boost American's presence along the West Coast.

Northwest also is seen by some as a better fit for Delta than US Airways because there is less overlap in domestic routes and their international networks are complementary. Delta is strong in serving Europe, and Northwest is a major player in the U.S.-to-Asia market.

US Airways, meanwhile, is expected to continue to seek out a partner despite Chief Executive Doug Parker's statement Wednesday that he was "extremely confident in our own stand-alone plan."

Parker said he was disappointed that the Delta creditors committee declined US Airways' bid. Last month, US Airways sweetened its offer, which was worth $9.75 billion at the close of trading Tuesday.

Delta, led by CEO Gerald Grinstein, mounted a tenacious defense, rallying employees and making his case before Congress and in media interviews. Despite his resistance, Grinstein has said he won't rule out a deal with another airline once Delta exits bankruptcy proceedings.

A hearing on Delta's reorganization plan is set for Feb. 7. The plan places the airline's value as high as $12 billion. Cordle said the plan also would give top management a stake in the carrier worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

On Wall Street on Wednesday, an index of 11 airline stocks declined a mild 0.1%. However, the index has fallen almost 12% in recent weeks as investors became convinced that a deal was not going to happen. US Airways' shares, also down recently, gained $2.88, or 5.4%, to $55.98.

[PAXboy]

So it's 'Good News' that the American airline industry is going to remain with over capacity? The USA always likes to say how important it is that capitalism be allowed to direct matters and the fittest company will win ...

[Re-Heat]

Agreed; not sure how this can be seen as good news in any way for the long-term health of the industry.

[vapilot2004]

Employees:
It was projected that the proposed US Air merger would eliminate about 10,000 jobs at Delta. ALPA has opposed this deal from the beginning.

Investors:
If Delta can emerge from this, the company could gain up to $2B in value over and above the US Air offer. Since the reorganization, Delta has gone from being a $0 valuation entity to a company with a $9.5B to $12B positive balance sheet projected by the end of this year.

Passengers:
Both carriers have a route overlap valued at $1.6B annually. A better fit would be a non-hostile merge with Northwest. Competition on hundreds of routes would be eliminated if the US Air deal was approved.

A US Air - Delta merger would benefit US Air and US Air alone by allowing them to absorb their direct comptetitor.

The Industry:
The overall good news is a better outlook for the future of US carriers with 'the industry' having a better chance at not eventually becoming merely 'the (one) company.'

I do agree with you PB. The US domestic routes are over-represented. To that end, Delta plans on focusing on international growth in the near future.

[Too Low Terrain]

Hiho!
Delta Airlines will leave chapter 11 soon but their shares are on the
way down all the time, can anybody out there explain WHY ?
Thought it is a positive sign of recovery and shares should rise....?? :rolleyes:
http://ichart.finance.yahoo.com/w?s=DALRQ.PK

[aeroconejo]

looks like it could be a good time to BUY!

aero :}

[OltonPete]

Rumours state that some US - China route licences will be announced on Tuesday and Delta will be releasing their next phase of international expansion.

The rumours are of announcements in Atlanta and New York with the latter being quite big due to the "new" ETOPS 757 coming on line.

New UK routes (excluding LHR) were rumoured a few months ago to be quashed in a TTG article. BFS, BHX, NCL & GLA were all floated as
potential destinations but the only definite information in respect of
the 757's relate to existing services or previous announcements: -

JFK - EDI
JFK - MAN WEF 8/01/08
JFK - FRA WEF 1/3/08
JFK - SNN already operating

There will be at least 10 ETOPS 757, possibly all for transatlantic, they are allegedly negotiating for three more with the possibility of a further 2.

Downgrades to 757's are forecast for JFK-AMS & BRU (difficult to believe) and LYS, LIS and ARN are rumoured as some of the new routes.

Still can't believe the UK won't get at least one new route especially if all 13 are obtained?

Pete

[Mr A Tis]

Maybe they might go for MAN-BOS being dropped by American?

[HH6702]

Newcastle

the airport management were in the local paper the other day stating they were speaking to 2 us based airlines about starting New York from Ncl.

They said they were hoping to have the service confirmed shortly so im hoping this it it.

[OltonPete]

Strangely the first one has slipped out with DL172/3 loaded but I don't
think it has been formally announced.

Well some were certain that ARN-JFK was a banker with a 757, surely
they won't get both?

I couldn't see any of the other rumoured destinations loaded yet!

Pete

[ROSSKi MYT]

It Has Been Rumoured Before And Recently That Delta Are Looking Into Launching Glasgow - Atalanta And Glasgow - JFK! Hope It Comes True;)

[GW76]

Neither will im afraid. Not on this forum or any of the others this silly rumour has been suggested.

[Devonair]

The number of international destinations from Delta's New York-JFK hub is growing even longer as they’re announcing 14 new transatlantic and Latin American routes on Wednesday for winter, spring and summer travel. By June 2008 they expect to offer customers a total of 204 daily departures to 93 international destinations from JFK.

They’re kicking off their newest international expansion in December with new nonstop Latin America routes from JFK: Panama City, Panama; Guatemala City, Guatemala; and Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago. In February, they’ll add San Jose and Liberia, Costa Rica.

In the spring and summer, the focus will shift to Europe, the Middle East and Africa with nine new transatlantic routes from JFK: Tel Aviv, Israel; Edinburgh, Scotland; Dakar, Senegal; Nairobi, Kenya (via Dakar); Cairo, Egypt; Malaga, Spain; Amman, Jordan; and Lagos, Nigeria. They’re also applying to the U.S. Department of Transportation for authority to add the only direct service operated by a U.S. carrier to Cape Town, South Africa, (via Dakar).

The new routes are just a part of Delta's upcoming plans for JFK.

[chris4567]

wherre did you get this from.
about time there was a JFK-AGP route,im made up for Malaga?
when will this be confirmed?

[Skipness One Echo]

Looking at JFK-EDI it's a straight replacement for ATL-EDI and even has the same flight number. I doubt there is real money to be made on a lot of this they just need to shift all those 757s out of US domestic.

[Devonair]

Here is the official announcement of the new services to Africa, Europe and the Middle East.
http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10861

[chris4567]

yay MALAGA has got a JFK service,is that direct?
hope it does well.

[Devonair]

Direct 3 or 4 times per week from June '08 I believe.

[chris4567]

:)brill ,when will these be on sale?

[LGWAlan]

DL162/3 days 357 JFKAGP 1705-0700/0930-1150

[chris4567]

great,what size will it be
752?

[Bagmanlgw]

Anyone with any news as to what the plans are for the London Gatwick flights ? JFK ATL CVG

All gone very quite since Open Skies ?

Are they going to LHR or are they staying ?

BAGMANLGW

[OltonPete]

Rumours on other forums is that there is more to come re International
routes for 2008.

Not a particularly bold statement really considering the Heathrow routes
have yet to be announced.

However there are still at least 3 more 75W routes to be announced
(if they intend to fly them all across) or 8 if they end up with 15 (another rumour). Lisbon & Lyon to JFK have been mentioned again as new routes.

As for Heathrow/Gatwick, nothing has officially being announced re the
acquisition of slots and not much in the way of rumour. One post mentioned three slot pairs for Heathrow had been obtained for 2 x ATL 1 x JFK but all speculation really.

There is so much going on with slots at the moment it makes your head spin, another rumour is that with Alitalia is trying to flog some for a bit
of quick cash. The rumour is that the LHR - MXP would take the hit.

However it has also been stated that these will go to the highest bidder
and not just SkyTeam members.

Pete

[OltonPete]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/200710...bs-uk-airfrance-delta-03c9bed.html (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/200710...bs-uk-airfrance-delta-03c9bed.html)

The announcement is in Paris tomorrow per several sources.

Rumours include: -

JFK-Orly with a 757

CDG - JFK is now showing as a 757 for next summer which is a downgrade.

The big rumour is Air France Heathrow to LAX on the 773. The article hints at the route but not the type.

This would be interesting having one long-haul plane based at Heathrow

Some still think that this is unlikely but Delta are supposed to be keen but want the 777 on the route and they apparently they have non spare.

JFK - Lyon is rumoured again with a 757.

JFK-AMS showing still as a 767 next summer but was rumoured to be downgraded to the 757.

Another report speculates nine Skyteam transatlantic routes to be
announced tomorrow from Heathrow????

Whatever happens it should be an interesting day.

Pete

[OltonPete]

Per another forum: -

DL174/5 JFK - LYS B757

DL53/4 JFK - Orly B757

Both to start in 2008

Pete

[Devonair]

DL announce services from LHR to ATL (1 daily) and JFK (2 daily) from March 30th.

[840]

Where are the slots coming from?

I'vae always assumed the KLM services from Rotterdam and Eindhoven were mostly there to keep slots warm and would be switched to LCY once open skies was agreed.

[airhumberside]

They cant switch to LCY, its at capacity

[Donkey497]

Other than that, service was pretty good for an American carrier and as said earlier load factor was around 100%

Have always found Delta's transatlantic service to be superb, considering that I managed to get to Gold SkyTeam status flying EDI-ATL-IAH in cattle class in the relatively short period the route operated, it was a fairly regular experience. Their 767's were very comfortable, Crew were always friendly & helpful, catering was well planned and well scheduled around departure, arrival and IFE times and as expected the connection times were superb from ATL.

Even when my lugage went AWOL ATL-IAH, it was delivered to my hotel within five hours, even although we were on the last DL flght of the night. Nice to wake up to the news that your luggage is waiting for you at reception.

My gripes with Delta is that A) they pulled the EDI-ATL service, allegedly for the winter, despite having a load factor~70%, promising to introduce an EDI-JFK service in April & run the ATL service in parallel June-October. B) The EDI-ATL service has now been pulled permanently.

But I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles - I'm quite happy to fly DL anyday.

[Devonair]

Info on the merger:
http://www.newglobalairline.com/

[Wellington Bomber]

Some questions for our friends across the pond.

1. With this merger i can see some conflicts regarding a/c types. Delta predominantly Boeing and NW Airbus, what can you see happening?

2. Are they going to reduce the number of flights that they both offer?

3. Will they reduce the flight deck crews

4. Who is actually going to buy the released a/c in a time of a depressed market?

[OltonPete]

Taken from a.net, their website and yahoo.

All for 2009 but not daily in some instances: -

"SLC-NRT
JFK-NRT
2nd daily ATL-NRT
NRT-SGN
ATL-DKR-NBO
ATL-DKR-CPT
ATL-SID-LAD
ATL-SID-ABV
ATL-SID-Malabo
JFK-LOS
JFK-GOT
JFK-VLC
JFK-ZRH
JFK-PRG
4 additional weekly flights JFK-TLV"

Some surprises and no new UK destinations but there was not any rumoured.
BHX & GLA to JFK has been mentioned but US Air probably killed off any
slight chance of BHX.

Some real surprises although the Cape Verde 75W mini hub has been known
a while now just not all the destinations.

JFK-PRG apparently runs on different days to CSA and Zurich is a 757!

Gothenburg has no competition but comments on this one would be
appreciated as it has surprised some and not rumoured. Valencia has
been mentioned as a possible route.

The Salt Lake Narita has raised a few eyebrows across the pond and it
is to be the A332. Jo'burg goes direct on the 77L, which is an upgrade.

WB - re your last post, not really gleaned too much on this other than
they will start mixing n matching DL & NW aircraft to each other routes
for "best fit" but that is hardly rocket science but off course will affect
crews as I am sure they have no A330 crew in salt Lake at present.

This mini hub in Cape Verde certainly sounds like "think outside the box"
but I suppose it is another way of expanding the African network.

No news of cuts other than SEA-LHR (ex NW) but I am sure there will be some.

Pete

[Seljuk22]

Great expansion:

Delta to Offer Customers Service to More Unique International Destinations in 2009:Delta Newsroom (http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=11185)

[Mr @ Spotty M]

No, it changes a/c in JFK.

[Devonair]

Good to see some more competition on trans pacific routes.
Delta to join Pacific route free-for-all (http://business.theage.com.au/business/delta-to-join-pacific-route-freeforall-20081219-72f7.html)
I believe the flight with operate as ATL-LAX-SYD-LAX-ATL

[RobertS975]

DL was forced by the TSA to cancel its inaugural flight from ATL to NBO which had been scheduled for June 3rd.

Feds halt Delta's first direct flight to Nairobi | ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/delta/stories/2009/06/02/nairobi_flight_canceled.html)

Maybe I am reading too much into this, but the abrupt cancellation so close to the start of service by the TSA, citing information that it has derived from several sources, means that there is/was a specific threat to flights into NBO by a US flag carrier. The lateness of the action implies that is is not a system issue with Kenyan security, but specific intelligence as it relates to the DL flight.

Needless to say, the Kenyans are miffed! As obstinate as the security agencies can be, I still feel that this action was NOT taken capriciously!


"Kenya summons US envoy over cancelled air link
NAIROBI, June 3, 2009 (AFP) - Kenya on Wednesday summoned the US ambassador over an 11th-hour cancellation by US carrier Delta Air Lines of a new direct link between Nairobi and Atlanta.
Foreign Affairs Minister Moses Wetangula summoned US ambassador Michael Ranneberger to express the government's reservations over the manner in which the flight was called off.
"The cancellation was not done in a manner expected of friends because they simply posted something on the website and it was up picked by many readers before we as a government were notified," Wetangula said.
Delta Air Lines announced Tuesday that direct flights from Nairobi to Atlanta, due to have started Wednesday, have been postponed indefinitely due to lack of Transport Security Administration (TSA) and US Government approval.
Wetangula regretted the flight was cancelled without formal notification to the Kenyan authorities of the reasons.
Ranneberger acknowledged Kenya's concerns but said that even the embassy in Nairobi did not have prior knowledge of the action.
"This is a postponement and we are hoping to get this back on track soon but I cannot confirm when," he said.
Wetangula said the cancellation was likely to dampen prospects of a recovery of the tourism sector, which last year took a 20 percent knock largely blamed on post-electoral violence and the global recession.
The cancellation "is covertly amounting to a travel advisory and it is going to hurt our tourism and therefore our economy," the minister protested.
Delta on Wednesday said the US Department of Homeland Security told it at the last minute that it would require more time to approve planned fights to Kenya and Liberia.
The Atlanta-based carrier is the only US airline to fly its own planes to Africa and was planning to launch flights to other destinations on the continent later this year."

[Trinity 09L]

I have been flying with DL over the past two weeks thru ATL, and surprised to see the start of this new service in the magazine. Appears to be no viable business case other than flying the flag :rolleyes:

[filejw]

DAL claims Africa service is some of their most profitable.

[RobertS975]

With KQ being a Skyteam member, there may well have been a decent feed for the DL flight. But the economics of the new route is not why I started this thread. It was the very fascinating last minute "stop sign" put up by the TSA and comments of "specific threats" to this flight. So how does this get "fixed"?

The Prime Minister of Kenya was to have met the incoming first flight for airport ceremonies.

[Iceman49]

Perhaps, the economics does not justify the service, and it just became easier to blame it on an outside source...

[hellsbrink]

Maybe I am reading too much into this, but the abrupt cancellation so close to the start of service by the TSA, citing information that it has derived from several sources, means that there is/was a specific threat to flights into NBO by a US flag carrier

Yes, you are reading too much into it.

The TSA state, in another link on the same page, that the threat level over East Africa (NOT just Nairobi) is too high at this time. Why would that be the case?

Somalia

[411A]

Perhaps, the economics does not justify the service, and it just became easier to blame it on an outside source...

Wrong.
For some airlines, African flights can indeed be very profitable, as in...smiling all the way to the bank.

The world does not end at the southern boundry of the Mediterranian.
Some folks need to take a slightly broader world view...:rolleyes:

[jstevenbaker]

I have read every article that I can find about the cancellation because I have a safari vacation the beginning of August now in jeapardy. Therefore, this was a disappointment as well as a shock to me.

This was NOT cancelled by Delta. I saw somebody on the thread said DL used security threats as an easy out because of poor economics. That's BS. My girlfriend works for DL in the international arena and is as plugged into this new service as anybody except for maybe Gov't Affairs. The decision was a shock to DL and Kenyans alike.

The most specific detail I have found is an alleged threat on aircraft using the Nairobi airport - not US specific per this article. And TSA associated the current threat with an incident that occured over 7 years ago in Mombasa.

It is all very odd to me. To prohibit operations the same day as the inaugural flight I would expect requires something very specific and very credible...or the TSA is teaching somebody a lesson at the expense of passengers who have purchased tickets for services that now do not exist. The biggest surprise is how little information to justify the decision has been shared with Delta, Kenyan officials, and the public. This is a significant and mysterious blow to those business stakeholders that have invested in the Kenya-US service.

[RobertS975]

Maybe disclosing exactly what was known or suspected about an impending plot will hamper the pursuit and capture of those involved, or even jeopardize under cover assets in the region.

[davidjohnson6]

If we assume that the US Govt operates in a relatively non-corrupt manner, then for the TSA to decide that DL cannot operate their route to NBO at short notice, would require some degree of accountability withiin the US Govt.

Either the TSA is acting without sufficient controls, or there is something which the US Govt security apparatus knows which we don't know and cannot be told.

One assumes that the people running the TSA are aware of the need to demonstrate accountability and that sufficient controls are in place, so as to enjoy the confidence of both the American public as well as the upper echelons of the US Executive.

The TSA are presumably aware that if the American public lose confidence in the existing controls and accountability process, then there are likely to be significant ramifications.

[B Sousa]

Any of you guys who are now on the Delta route into Africa. There are quite a few places to visit if your not familiar, makes the stay a bit nicer.
Please drop me a PM and I can give you some suggestions on the places to visit. There are also other websites for those flying in Africa.

Delta now has the nicest routing for me rather than going through Europe. Keep Delta ready when I am..

Thanks

Bert

[stylo4444]

Sorry for this is not the right place to post this question.

Does anyone know the status of Delta's project to install PTV's on every seat for these aircraft? I hard read before that it was supposed to have been completed last year, but not 100% sure. If anyone has any info, that would help greatly as I will be flying on one in the next couple weeks.

Many thanks.

[bobleeds]

Travelled Atlanta to John Wayne and return last year on 737-700 and 737-800W, I can't recall any PTV's on either flight. However, the system on the transatlantic leg from MAN (767-400) was excellent, so should be pretty good as and when fitted. Also found the Delta Cabin crew to be very helpful and happy going about their work.

Enjoy your trip!

[OltonPete]

No press releases but mentioned on another forum and it starts this Autumn.

One explanation given is a 7% year-on-year reduction under the joint venture with KLM and Air France. No idea if this is correct of not.

Services allegedly cancelled: -

JFK - CPH, ARN, TXL, CAI, AMM

PHL - CDG

MEM - AMS

ATL - SVO.

However despite getting flights for MAN-JFK on most booking engines and in the Delta.com timetable but when booking from October onwards it seems only to offer via AMS. Anybody have any more information on this?

Pete

[Jamie2k9]

Cut:
JFK - MAN - 10 Sep - 26 Mar - US deparutres

Reductions:
ATL - AMS - A332 (A333 W10)
ATL - MXP - 4 weekly (5 weekly W10)
ATL - MUC - B763 (B764 W10)
ATL - CDG - daily (2 daily W10) AF will operate 2 daily (1 daily 10)
BOS - LHR - daily (planned 2 daily)
EWR - AMS - B764 (A332 W10)
JFK - MXP - B763 (A332 W10)
PDX - AMS - 5 weekly (daily W10)

Increase:
ATL - BCN - daily B767 (5 weekly B767 W10)
DTW - AMS - 3 daily A333 (A332 W10)
JFK - BRU - daily B767 (757 W10)
JFK - DUB - daily B767 (757 W10)
JFK - PRG - daily B767 (5 weekly W10)
SLC - CDG - daily B767 (5 weekly W10)

[Jamie2k9]

Reductions:
JFK - ATH - 5 weekly (daily winter 2010/11)
JFK - NCE - reduced to 4 weekly (29 Oct - 9 Jan) then cancelled until 23 March.
JFK - MAD - 5 weekly (daily winter 2010/11)
JFK - PRG - 5 weekly (planned to be daily winter 2011/12 but same as winter 2011/12)

New Route:
ORD - CDG - Oct 29 - 5 weekly replaces Air France

[jabird]

Comparing prices on LHR-LOS v LHR-JFK/EWR shows that there is certainly vast profit potential in Africa routes from the UK at least.

And the phrase African-American must have come from somewhere!

But I am still curious about DL's best strategy for ta flights - bring them into JFK which must be the biggest destination, and offer some onward connections, or to ATL which is neither a significant tourist destination nor a top metropolitan area, but which just happens to be the world's busiest airport.

I'd be curious about where the main final destinations are for Africa-US services?

[delta154]

Some more changes to the system, most notably as previously reported on here were:

Increase:
ATL - BCN - daily B767 (5 weekly B767 W10)

This is now back to 5 weekly

JFK - DUB - daily B767 (757 W10)

This is now reverted back to a B757 for the winter

SNN is cut for the winter (was 4 weekly winter 10)

More details on the famous blog site for new routes.

[j636]

Delta extends suspension of 5 trans Atlantic routes until 1 June 2012 instead of resuming on 23 March 2012.

Atlanta – Moscow Sheremetyevo
New York JFK – Berlin Tegel
New York JFK – Copenhagen
New York JFK – Manchester
New York JFK – Stockholm