View Full Version : The future of JAA

29th Oct 2001, 03:20
This topic could also be named "who's going to trash his JAA-membership first ?"

Europeans know how JARs can be a pain in the butt, and every country now part of this very selective "club" (or trying to be part of it) could spend entire days complaining about it and telling how difficult it is to attain and maintain those standards.

But let's go straight to the point: I hear that some CAAs (including "major" ones) are seriously considering leaving the JAA system to go back to their older system, or even to slowly drift toward the FAA system.

This is not pure speculation, this is a rumor. Some CAA officials really said "It's too hard for everybody, let's find something else more efficient, less burocratic, and that also ensures a high level of safety".

Even though I'm not sure why they said that (for what purpose?), I guess it deserves at least a minute to think about it. Would that be possible ? What would be the consequences ? What would happen if a European country decided to follow the FAA ?

So anybody with info on the subject please share it, or simply express your views. BTW, please try to avoid restarting the old "FAA vs. JAA"-war... It's going nowhere.

29th Oct 2001, 06:03
Would suit me (selfish, I know) - for instance, I believe someone holding a JAA ppl can convert to FAA very easily (just a matter of filling out a form?), whereas going the other way is much more complex (involves lessons, exams and check-ride). I think it is possible for an FAA ppl holder to fly in UK, but only in an "N" registered plane. Can't be many clubs with those (or am I wrong?)!

Some standardization (particularly if it is line with FAA) can only be a good thing, aside from my selfish reasons - one being there is no night rating as such in FAA. Night landings are part of FAA ppl, with the same currency rules as JAA if you want to take passengers at night. Having a separate rating seems unnecessarily beurocratic. On the other hand, I like the JAA IMC rating - full IR is OTT if all you want to do is fly in IMC weather and not enter Class A.

[ 29 October 2001: Message edited by: sanjosebaz ]

Di - Hedral
29th Oct 2001, 06:21
Sanjosebaz It used to be the case that you could go to any UK flying club and hire a 'G' registered aircraft with your FAAPPL so long as you remained inside the UK.
It would make sense that the rule has been extended to the rest of Europe now, but I can't confirm that it has (yet).

29th Oct 2001, 08:37
Di - thats very interesting to know, I take it that its no longer the case?

29th Oct 2001, 11:37
Anything to do with the EU is more bureauocratic and less efficient. I know that there are those within the UK CAA who get exasperated by the fact that the small authorities, with little more than a rubber stamp capability, such as Belgium, want as much say as the larger authorities, such as the UK and Germany. It doesn't make sense and will make even less sense with the reduction in EU airlines.

Di - Hedral
29th Oct 2001, 16:10
UPDATE ON LAST POSTING: It still is the case that you can hire a 'G' registered aircraft with a FAA PPL so long as you remain within the UK.
I was hopeful that since becoming fully JAA that you may be able to travel outside of the UK, but you still cannot - Seperate issues.

With regard to the main topic - it has taken several years to integrate into the JAA system and not feasible to back-peddle now. However, AOPA have worked out a UK National Licence for PPLs to try and keep the costs down for enthusiasts :)

The Guvnor
29th Oct 2001, 18:32
I've had no problems at all hiring G reg aircraft with my South African licence - though if I want to fly cross border I need to either get a UK CAA licence or fly a ZS reg aircraft!

Now, how would I do this if I wanted to buy a G reg aircraft for export to South Africa - if I wanted to fly it down there on my SA licence? The South Africans require an inspection at an approved facility before it can go on the ZS register - so does that mean I'd need to get a UK validation of my SA licence?

All rather confusing really!

29th Oct 2001, 18:38
JAR in Italy,when?

29th Oct 2001, 18:43
Probably wishful thinking by someone frustrated by the JAA process. However, it's hard to see any benefit from the hurdles setup by JAA when compared to the relatively objective standards of FAA. After all, it seems that Americam and European airplanes fall out of the sky at about the same frequency!

Saab 2000 Driver
29th Oct 2001, 20:01
Altough the concept is nice, Europe seems to be to narrowminded to come to a concensus, and prefers to re-invent the wheel a dozen times. :(

Whether it´s using English as a standard aviation language, or flying N- or ZS registred a/c. I sincerely hope that Europe will move towards a FAA equivolent, instead of this JAA "let´s take your license away" attitude.

It´s about time pilots expose these ´eurocrats´ to the media and put a stop to the dense jungle of legislation. :mad:

30th Oct 2001, 00:55
Whatever the future of the JAA, it doesn't concern me any more, I'm out of there!

However, there are some misconceptions in this thread which I might be able to help sort out concerning licensing privileges.

The holder of a valid PPL issued in accordance with the provisions of ICAO Annex 1 can fly a UK registered aircraft in what the CAA will translate as "day VFR" only. So the holder of an FAA PPL or an RSA PPL could fly a G-registered aircraft in UK airspace. To fly said machine in non-UK EU airspace may be possible but the pilot should contact the individual authorities for permission which Might be granted.

Beware of calling the IMC rating a JAA rating - it is not. It is a UK only rating and as such only valid in UK airspace.

To The Guvnor, you should be OK to ferry a UK registered aircraft to South Africa on a UK validation of an appropriate pilots licence issued in accordance with ICAO annex 1.

Flying is fun - enjoy it
:) :) :)