poll:70% of Netjetspilots looking for other jobs [Archive]

Smeagel

20th Aug 2006, 23:15

Sounds like Smeagel is back again :=
I am, but as myself. Sorry to spoil another of your guesses Long haul.
I believe 70% of those who voted said they'd applied elsewhere. Given that most people are paranoid about management finding out who they are I'd say that's still a representative figure.
Many people read the crew forum, most are still to scared to post. I'd guess there are more employees in there than not by now.
[Bob Dylan]"The times, they are a changin'.........."[/Bob Dylan]

Looooong haul

21st Aug 2006, 07:45

Strange that I found this doom and gloom thread from a year ago and nothing discussed materialized.... :hmm:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=191232

morescalps

21st Aug 2006, 09:38

Not this time- lawyers are helping this time- and the company can not fire anybody for wanting to join or actually being a member of a union- in the US the NetJets customers, owners got the information first hand on how great a company NetJets was to work for...
The NetJets Europe Pilots have rights...

Smeagel

21st Aug 2006, 12:57

Strange that I found this doom and gloom thread from a year ago and nothing discussed materialized.... :hmm:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=191232

Thank you Long Haul. You have just proven that the situation is not just an errant blip but a long running problem and nothing has improved with the changes in management.

Perhaps you could enlighten us with your wisdom and explain how this is a 'Good Thing' as opposed to the 'Very Bad Thing' everyone else seems to think it is?

Looooong haul

21st Aug 2006, 13:17

Smeagel

21st Aug 2006, 15:27

Smeagel
It shows that you are an one issue doom and gloom merchant who was talking then the same as now. The fact that you have sour grapes because you were fired is your problem but go and move on in life. :hmm:
Things have improved at NJE and are continuing to improve. And yes there are always things that should improve even more.
My main point is to put things in perspective rather than have 59 negative posts about a company that you are not dealing with anymore..... :yuk:
My dear fellow, I hope that you do not make as many uninformed guesses in your professional life as you do in here. It would be a wonder you ever found your way to the correct destination.
If I have to highlight the doom and gloom it is because it is still there. Things have improved? Apart from a suggestion that they might give everyone the 6/5 they were promised at interview and indoc (but only for half the year) and a suggestion that maybe they might stop adding extra work days to the roster in months when crew book vacation tell me exactly what has improved would you?
Maybe it is the salary? Has that risen? Umm, no. That only increases by 2%per year whereas inflation is running at more or less double that and changing the exchange rate recently (at great expense to the company) cost most of the UK pilots £300 per month.
Perhaps it is the salary for long term employees? Umm, no. That still goes no further than 10 years. With more than a few crew approaching that anniversary you would think that a responsible employer would have addressed this.
The contracts perhaps? After all NJE has been up and running for almost a decade and it is hardly a surprise to them that their crew come from a dozen or so countries. Surely this has been organised? No again. Only some vague rumour (that is either denied or confirmed depending upon who you ask) that the long awaited Luxembourg contract will be here soon.
I wonder if the company are helping their employees with their obligations in the meantime? No. In fact they seem to have taken to informing on them to the tax authorities. Nice.
Man management? Perhaps the company has provided training to help raise morale. Has it realised that treating professionals with respect brings out the best in them? Not if the recent firing of a fleet manager is anything to go by. Apparently he was too close and too supportive of his crew. That'll teach him.
Come on Long Haul, help me out here.

Looooong haul

21st Aug 2006, 15:56

Err old data again Smeagel.. The offer made is for 18 days a month and has been for over a year. You wouldnt know that as you were asked to leave prior to that :=

Scroll Lock

21st Aug 2006, 16:49

IMHO...it is a waste of time crosing swords with Smeagel.

His information is in a word, outdated, and he will only resort to petty name calling.

:ugh:

Smeagel

21st Aug 2006, 17:01

Keep banging the wrong drum boys, your reward in Lisbon is assured. A dozen virgins each for the martyrs, inshallah.

So what if the 18 days has been offered for a year? Point is it was the basis of employment for most of us who are in the company now and was taken away.

Nice try Scroll Lock. Where did I resort to name calling?

Of course you have both studiously avoided the other points. Why would that be?

When you're done with those let's discuss the legitimacy of airline time not counting, split duty without suitable rest accomodation and no time allowed after 'on blocks' or to ready the aircraft for the next flight.

Do I still have your attention?

(Hint: This is the bit where you accuse me of having been fired a year ago and my information being out of date and thereby neatly avoid answering the questions).

artip

21st Aug 2006, 17:08

Smeagels info is pretty accurate!

morescalps

21st Aug 2006, 19:51

Smeagel is right!

Interview promise and contract content were very different- the fact that very few NJE pilots comment- speaks for itself!

Why?

FEAR CULTURE- but maybe the NJE owners and customers should know about this-

The working conditions of the NJE flight crew that provide high cost outstanding luxury travel service - are poor. Low cost carrier flight crew have far better Terms and Conditions.

Scroll Lock

21st Aug 2006, 19:57

Well then. We best all give up then.

Tired of the sniping at NJE.
I'm happy there as are lots of others. There is always a minority who are unhappy, most leave.

Oh and Smeagers my ol' cock...I am not looking for instant progress and vestal virgins from my bosses!!

Besides, can't find a virgin anywhere these days!!:}

morescalps

21st Aug 2006, 20:21

give up- that's it...would you say no to better T&C's?-- will you stay with NJE for the next 35 Years?

Scroll Lock

21st Aug 2006, 21:38

Er, no as i would be 75 years old and long retired!!!

Smeagel

22nd Aug 2006, 00:25

Answer the questions please Scroll Lock.

Let us do them two at a time.

1) How legitimate under JAA rules is day one airline time not being counted as duty?

2) Is the annual pay increment 2%?

Please do not try fobbing us off with jovial quips. Tell us these answers then we can move on to the others.

aka punisher

22nd Aug 2006, 00:54

Dear smeagel and more scalps don't give up the fight!Let management(or should I say scambuster..?, small note :did you notice the 6min reactiontime after my thread was posted?)not win their divide and rule -game.By the way nice to know you guys are watching, maybe you now finally start to listen.
And Long haul, we all know how you worked your way up in the ranks so please don't start putting in posts as if you are representative for the Netjets workforce, because you are far off.That's the whole issue in Netjets:too many in their ivory towers having no idea what is really happening, but fillling the pockets with big bonusses while we are suffering from below.
Things will change now, there is no stopping us, the small stream has become a big river and the management won't get away anymore with what they have been doing for years. And with the help of powerfull unions we will finally get a voice, a voice we were always affraid to use, because we all know how many fine pilots have been fired without trial, just because they had raised a matter.
We need other management then the pocketfillers who are there now, their time has long run out. We need a FOM/Chiefpilot with a good aviation background ,with lots hours of experience, not like ours who doesn't even qualify for the minimum requirements as captain within Netjets.! Someone who is supportive to his crews instead of showing his power.
How is it possible that a big company like Netjets is being run by people with very little aviationbackground and in the meantime telling all the hard working pilots off....Hope it will change soon.The Dark Master was the first to go, many will follow, they really underestimate how well organized we have become, no matter what the long haul types and the likes are trying, this train can not be stopped anymore, and it is about time.
Please all of you who were always afraid to speak up but do agree, register with PPrune and show your voice, together we will be strong!

aka punisher

22nd Aug 2006, 12:24

So Scambuster, I don't need to tell the viewers how a poll works, as we all know that a poll is always done under a representive part of a group and therefore representive for the whole group within small margins..but what do you have to say about another poll that 67% of the interviewed want to join a union(IPA) and 21% allready has, that is 88% of the people who want things changed....That leaves 12% with people like you and Longhaul and the likes who don't want to have things changed because that threatens their position and a few others who are happy with what they have, mostly new people still watching the world through pink glasses.Can't blame those, their hart is at the right place but they will soon realise how things work and join the majority.

So if two polls shows people being unhappy, do you think you can still maintain your opinion about it being a scam? wake up scambuster and start applying elsewhere, you can't change the flow anymore, we will win and get a voice.:D

winkle

22nd Aug 2006, 15:59

Well well well! I really hope you guys get it sorted in NJE. I left a short while back as in voted with my feet. The flying was great but at the rate i was going there was no need for anything more than 10 years becuase i would have burnt out. i really tried hard for the company and got lots of rewards i had a great time but big BUT! the 18 days was toooo much especially with the p!55 taking leave bit of subtracting the leave from 22 days ie 5 days leave = 17 day month. the ridicoulously early starts and late finishes meant very little quality of life. I was told maybe naievly (how do you spoll it) by CM it was 6/5 even though when i pitched up to Lis the contract said 18 days- oh dont worry we mean 6/5 so i duly signed the worthless piece of paper. just before i left an office boy who didnt understand banter ( i was harping on to a about how wrong the positioning rules were) he duly blubbed to my FM and i got one of the most painful phone calls from a chap i respected and it aint easy to explain yourself over the phone. this just fuelled my fire for an earlier departure. now i hear he got the push - very dissapointing.
would i go back to NJ if they called me - yep and i would be as keen as when i left but i would only do it for a 12 day a month contract.
my new company - well regulated - excellent package - loads of leave and benefits and about a 15 day working month. I must be mad you say but everytime i see or hear a fraction i have a little smile to myself, to a man (woman) everyone I flew with was great fun. Thanks guys and gals and good luck with the fight i will be watching and wondering.;)

aka punisher

22nd Aug 2006, 17:27

Winkle you are absolutely right.The problems in the company don't come from the pilots, they are a fantastic bunch. That makes it so sad our lives are ruined by this management and makes us feel sad. Nobody I spoke to has said the reason to leave is their collegues or the nice people in the different departments. Very sad indeed and I could not agree more with your statement, good luck up there in the clouds, I hope tailwinds all the way.Thank you for expressing what most of us feel.....

major C. Draper

22nd Aug 2006, 18:50

Ladies and Gentleman, I am utterly shocked by what I have just read!
My Grandgrandson has joined Netjets 6 months ago and I am worried what he got into. Back in the thirties when I was flying a de Havilland Puss Moth under London's Tower Bridge things were a bit different. People had manners and we all treated eachother with the utmost respect.I sincerely hope that this management has the decency to resign and give up their positions to real gentleman.
Yours Sincerely,
Major C. Draper

Smeagel

22nd Aug 2006, 21:32

Hey Scroll Lock!!!!

Still waiting for your reply on those first two questions.

We're not going anywhere until you answer. Then we'll try a couple more and a couple more and.......................... you get the idea.

In the meantime perhaps Looooong Haul can help out.

No?

Smeagel's Mum

23rd Aug 2006, 08:03

Smeagel!!

You're engaged??!!! When did this happen? This is so sudden.
When am I going to meet the lovely girl?

She does actually exist doesn't she?

Smeagel

24th Aug 2006, 09:10

Scroll Lock.

Still waiting for your answers. You were vocal enough earlier on yet have gone awfully quiet since you were asked for specifics. Likewise Loong Haul.

People are watching. Your failure to reply though speaks volumes.

Mum. Course she exists. I've been stalking her for years

morescalps

25th Aug 2006, 21:24

we are waiting for answers- hello- ?

Smeagel

28th Aug 2006, 10:25

Dear Scroll Lock,
I know you are home, ie not on tour. I know you are on the internet because I have just seen you in the NJE forum. So I will ask you once again for answers to the questions put to you earlier in this thread.
How legal is day one travel in NJE?
Is it true that pay reduces (in real terms) annually because of the 2% pay 'rise'.
We can do with just the answers to these two before moving on to far more juicy areas.
You are always very quick to leap to the company's defence whatever the subject yet strangely fade into the background when it comes to specifics. It is always the same group of you too, always the same tactics. You think you are ingratiating yourselves with Lisbon by defending them when in fact all you do is raise the profile of topics they really would rather nobody knew about.
Anyway, it is too late. You have already told us we are wrong.

Prove it.

Smeagel

29th Aug 2006, 14:20

Well there's a surprise.

Scroll Lock and his buddy refuse to answer specific questions. What does that tell you? It tells me that they are more than happy to lay smoke in an attempt to ingratiate themselves with management but when it comes to specifics and the truth they run away and hide.:D

Why?

I think you can all work that out for yourselves

Scroll Lock

30th Aug 2006, 08:03

Perhaps I have had better things to do with my time.

I ONLY engage in this banal chatter as a form of cerebral jousting, for laughs and a little light entertainment.

Phil Brockwell

30th Aug 2006, 09:55

Has anyone done a poll on non-Netjets pilots. It seems to me that the nature of being a pilot is wanting the next stepping stone.

Is this high statistic down to Netjets, or down to the fact that pilots by their very nature are always chasing a higher ...salary...MTOW....Mach etc etc.

I can be pretty sure my Seneca guys all are looking for their next job, and so they should be.

Is it not normal for Bravo, Hawker XP, Excel pilots to chase jobs with 737, 747 A340 etc etc.

Phil

Smeagel's Mum

30th Aug 2006, 10:25

Hey Smeagel,

I'm worried about you. Your best friend called, he wanted to know if you still wanted the 20 yo lesbian twins at your stag night. Sounds like I'll have to go and buy some extra strong paracetamol.

Your luving Mum.

Smeagel

30th Aug 2006, 16:25

I ONLY engage in this banal chatter as a form of cerebral jousting

That being the case I'd say you were knocked off your horse some time ago. Hope you didn't fall in anything soft, warm and smelly.

Looking back over your posts I detect a trend. You leap into the fray whenever someone has the temerity to criticise NJE and declare them wrong. When the conversation turns to specifics you initially ignore the questions but when pushed try to deflect them with joviality (splitting my sides here).

Sorry to tell you Scroll Lock but it does not work.

Now, answer the questions please.

(Thanks Mum. You spoil me. Where would I be without you and Dad's money?)

tophe

31st Aug 2006, 11:03

So many pilot jobs are now available on the market. Why the unhappy pilots flying for NJE or any other company are not changing jobs iso complaining all the time.
Is life so difficult that everything is so negatif ?:sad:

Smeagel

31st Aug 2006, 16:57

Why the unhappy pilots flying for NJE or any other company are not changing jobs....

I cannot speak for other companies but on one NJE fleet every captain has applied elsewhere.

simmatt

31st Aug 2006, 17:05

And thats the one people lust after too! With flight attendants and all!

I hear on the other "big" fleet most have CV's out and about.......

CL300

1st Sep 2006, 05:36

I cannot speak for other companies but on one NJE fleet every captain has applied elsewhere.

May be but they are complaining on this forum do they ?

How can you be sure that ALL off them applied elsewhere ?

How do you explain that none left ?

Smeagel

1st Sep 2006, 09:22

May be but they are complaining on this forum do they ?
Apparently not. Your point being?

How can you be sure that ALL off them applied elsewhere ?
They told me.

How do you explain that none left ?
Yet.

CL300

1st Sep 2006, 10:09

Apparently not. Your point being?
They told me.
Yet.

My point is this is a lot of rumor and not a lot of facts, you know personnaly ALL the captains on this fleet and ALL of them told you PERSONNALY that they applied somewhere else.
Would one think if the job was so awfull like some people are saying they will try to share their enbearable living conditions.

Things being strange none of them had left.

Netjets is the BEST GA company to work for in Europe, even if some things need to be tuned like in every other company in the world.

Some time ago, people were complaining on this site about FTL, comparing the portuguese ones with the UK...which was a complete nonsense. You try to compare apples and oranges..( in the comparison one should had sample the others european countries like france or switzerland and be very surprised as well)

Now people are complaining about contracts, what will be next? the color of the tie ? the tailor of the uniforms? the Anr headsets? Come on stop colporting words from a fraction of netjet's pilot community trying to say that this is the majority !

It would the same kind of comparison if we say that we had to sleep in sh... hotel to help to pay the mortgage of someone or the sport car of the other one.... Please, if you have nothing true to say pass on , and let the people working at Netjets to sort out their issues.

By the way you still did not answer me : you quote "we" when talking about Netjets...:p Still involved ? Or it was so good that you cannot get your mind out of it ?

foods

1st Sep 2006, 11:39

Now people are complaining about contracts, what will be next? the color of the tie ? the tailor of the uniforms? the Anr headsets?

Yes they do, the ANR got resolved, still far far to many others.
Maybe the company should stop being a "sales" company and look at other parts of its self.

Being safe is not about selling more cards and shares, the man with the sales drive has been told this but I guess when one goes in and the rest all stop because of it............

He will have had his sales board framed and his bank account enhanced.

Smeagel

1st Sep 2006, 19:59

My point is this is a lot of rumor and not a lot of facts, you know personnaly ALL the captains on this fleet and ALL of them told you PERSONNALY that they applied somewhere else.
I am sorry you feel the need to accuse me of lying but that is more your problem than mine.
The facts are that I joined NJE a long time ago and there are fleets with not a lot of captains so why should I not know them all?
You say none of them have left, I say 'yet'. I am sure that when the first few go the company will spot the trend and throw a few crumbs to hold the rest for a while. That does not alter the fact that as of now they ALL have applied elsewhere.
Now people are complaining about contracts, what will be next? How dare they, eh? Fancy them wanting a legal and binding contract. Some people:rolleyes:
let the people working at Netjets to sort out their issues.
'We' are sorting them out, or trying to. Look across the Atlantic to our American cousins, how did they eventually get a fair deal? By smiling sweetly as management rip another page from their contract or going public?
By the way you still did not answer me : you quote "we" when talking about Netjets... Still involved ? Or it was so good that you cannot get your mind out of it ? I didn't see your question, my dross filter obviously overloaded. I'm very much involved thanks for asking.

transilvana

2nd Sep 2006, 00:31

Sorry guys, but netjets is not the best GA company in Europe. I will think twice before changing from my GA company to netjets. I am F/O, I earn 30 grand more than a netjets F/O, I get a house and car paid by the company, I fly 10 days month, I have a union, I have pension and social security paid in my country, I don´t get ****** every month, I know my flights 3 weeks in advance....

I don´t know you guys, but i know some netjets guys and 2 days ago one told me that he flew 22 days last month and he asked me if I new someone because he wants to leave netjets,he is not getting what they promised him.

Netjets was good at the beggining, things are changing....

CL300

2nd Sep 2006, 04:54

Sorry guys, but netjets is not the best GA company in Europe. I will think twice before changing from my GA company to netjets. I am F/O, I earn 30 grand more than a netjets F/O, I get a house and car paid by the company, I fly 10 days month, I have a union, I have pension and social security paid in my country, I don´t get ****** every month, I know my flights 3 weeks in advance....
I don´t know you guys, but i know some netjets guys and 2 days ago one told me that he flew 22 days last month and he asked me if I new someone because he wants to leave netjets,he is not getting what they promised him.
Netjets was good at the beggining, things are changing....

well keep this one that might the only one company like this in Europe.....Flying less than big airline for twice the money and everything being paid congrats !! We all wished to have the same job !