Expedite Descent

[On standby]

When ATC ask us to expedite descent what is the minimum rate required?

[spekesoftly]

According to UK CAP 493, expedite climb/descent is used: "To require a pilot to climb/descend at best rate". It does not specify a minimum ROC or ROD.

[On standby]

Thanks for the info'. Will look it up.

[lobby]

The BEST rate for who? The Pilots, ATC or the Accountants.

[eastern wiseguy]

I think ULTIMATELY the pilots.......climb like your life depends on it ....because IT DOES:cool:

[Carnage Matey!]

Giving the aircrafts best rate could lead to some very interesting TCAS events.:eek:

[catocontrol]

what about more than normal? ;)

[Jagohu]

Giving the aircrafts best rate could lead to some very interesting TCAS events.:eek:
In this case not giving it can lead some even more interesting TCAS events though... :)

[begbie]

Giving the aircrafts best rate could lead to some very interesting TCAS events.:eek:

I personally would not ask you to expedite all the way when directly underneath/on top of another aircraft. I work in london TMA and generally ask only for expidition thru a level before the cleared level in these circumstances. I'm sure most of my colleagues are the same. My feeling is that some controllers use the term far too often when it is completely unnecessary. When controllers use expedite in every second transmission I feel that they reduce the effectiveness when thay really do need it. A pilot on frequency hearing expedite every two mins may start to doubt how much control the controller actually has, i know I would!

[Jerricho]

IMHO, "expedite" instructions should include the reason for the expedition.

"Maintain 3000, expedite through 5000, traffic holding at *wherever* at 6000........."

[FlightDetent]

In this case not giving it can lead some even more interesting TCAS events though... :)

Nice :ok: :D :D :D

[KiloKilo]

I rarely use expedite climb or descent. But in any case I do mean the best you can give me. And it is in your benefit because it is then always for seperation. However when a pilot reads back "Roger expediting" I still have no clue on his ROC or ROD as it is not clear at the time what the expedite really is that the aircraft can do or what the pilot is willing to do. So basically I still am not 100% sure this way if I can guarantee separation. Better would be ofcourse to give a specific rate, just a shame if it turned out the pilot could do better.
As well the perception of an expedite climb or descent from a pilot's point of view vary a lot. Sometimes when I give to the same company, same path, same aircraft type a ROD of 1500' or more one pilot will come back as if it would be a low ROD and another pilot will readback; Expediting!

In other words I try not to use it, but when I do I suggest you go down like a brick or climb like a rocket ;)

[Dances with Boffins]

climb like a rocket ;)
Unless you're in a A340, in which case just close your eyes and pray.. :{

[MancBoy]

I've seen various rates from 6500 fpm from a 767 to 1000 fpm for a TU154, which nearly got my fingers burnt and would never attempt again by the way!

Expedite can never be used to ensure separation and in my opinion should only be used as a last resort if headings aren't going to work.

The best phraseology I have heard from a TC controller is "wop on up", not exactly standard.

[KiloKilo]

Unless you're in a A340, in which case just close your eyes and pray.. :{

But that is part of ATC-101;

Never climb an A340 straight to it's requested level; use as many IFL's as you can. Specially in the summer period. During winter periods ons sometimes can have the luxury to skip an IFL. ;) ;)

[dunadan06]

I use "increase your ROD/ROC" or something like "Descent FL060, to be out of 090 within 15Nm".
It does the job, usually:rolleyes:
When I use "expedite", I mean "expedite", really:eek: ;)

[KiloKilo]

My experience using a location or time as a condition to a descent doesn't always work with some companies from a particular region. And then to use it for separation can be tricky.

[dunadan06]

My experience using a location or time as a condition to a descent doesn't always work with some companies from a particular region. And then to use it for separation can be tricky.
If the condition in time/distance doesn't work, by the time you find out the "deal" is not done :eek: , it's time to use the "expedite, you :mad: " phraseology (with the right voice :O )

[M609]

Heard this while eavesdropping on Vilnius APP some time last year.

Scenario: Formation of 2 F-16s in radar trail inbound Vilnius for a practice approach, passing FL200-ish.

Vilnius approach: "MA01 flight, expedite decendt to alt. 4000ft"

A/C: "Wilco, MA01"

50-ish seconds later......

A/C: "MA01 4000ft maintaining"

Solved the first conflict beautifully, but they did plummet past another a/c! :ouch:

Never use it unless you know what to expect! :D

Made a dreary day as liason in Siauliai tower a bit more fun :E