English Test for ATCOS

[atco112]

Just read a memo from SRG that says I have to have my English tested and I have to reach level 6 I only just passed my GCSE and my speling is leevs a lot to be desired.

Is this new or is it me failing to keep up as usual what if I fail do I have to be retrained I wouldn't mind a few weeks to learn how to speak proper.

Come on number 8 move your :mad: ing arse!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

You sound somewhat immature to be an ATCO if I may say so...

[Gonzo]

If one is a native English Speaker, the test will be waived and one will be certified as Level Six.

Perhaps it would be a good idea if everyone was subject to the test................

[gconatyuk]

Is this a serious thread? I thought it was a wind up which is why i didn't reply originally.

[side-saddled]

Apparently level 6 just means that English is your native language and you're pretty much guarenteed to pass it as SRG inspectors are allowed to assess you with no formal training.

Level 5 is if English is your second language but you are fluent. However, someone specially trained has to assess your competancy.

I think the levels decrease in ability so No.1 must be if you can grunt coherently and point in the right direction.

HD, is ATCO112's maturity based on your 30 years of experience in ATC.....................:8 yawn.

[planeenglish]

Dear atco112 and all,

I believe I may be of some assistance here. What side saddled writes is a bit wrong. ICAO (and subsequently JAA/EASA) have guidelines specific to Aviation English in document 9835. I can tell you that according to the requirements reading and writing mean nothing. Your literacy should not be in question. These new standards deal solely with radio communications when radiotelephone standard phraseologies do not suffice. England, from when I spoke with the member from the CAA, seems to be using their usual technique for testing R/T For those who fall under level 6 Expert-THIS DOES NOT MEAN NATIVE SPEAKER!- (Many non-native speakers have level 6 proficiency and many native speakers have less!) will then be sent to test for specific proficiency through an accredited school.

The test, according to ICAO, must be specifically designed to follow the guidelines. EUROCONTROL has the ELPAC test which is a spin-off of their famous PELA exam which they changed to conform to the new standards.

It is much more complicated than most people care to believe. Perhaps in 2008 more people will begin to listen, just when it is too late.

Each country must adopt their own method of testing. If you would like more specific information PM me or look here...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=233246
and here......
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230474

Best to all,
PE

[planeenglish]

Here's some ICAO mumbo jumbo on the matter

http://www.icao.int/icao/en/trivia/peltrgFAQ.htm#20

Then there's the actual rating scale for ALL piots and ATCOs and station operators...

http://ulc.gov.pl/download/ICAO_LPR/ratingscale.html

PE

[side-saddled]

I stand corrected planeenglish, I was only going by what the memo said and info passed down the grape vine.

All things considered though, I would imagine that you would have to be pretty un-lucky to be working as an ATCO in the UK and fail the language tests.

[Guy D'ageradar]

Had to sit mine a few months ago - what a load of b******s! As usual, Skyguide has come up with their own method of testing - all nicely prepared by German speakers who only know English as a second language. Result, several (multiple choice) questions WITH MULTIPLE CORRECT ANSWERS!!!:D Pointing this out after the test, I was informed that "this is normal for the anglophones" and that there was no problem. Pity that I passed really, I was hoping for a few weeks back home to brush up in the pub!:ugh:

[planeenglish]

Hi Guy D'ageradar,

Could you elaborate on your test? Was it a proficiency test, diagnostic, entrance or other? Was it written?

I met the person responsible for the new Language Proficiency Requirements (LPR) for FOCA (I believe it is called) at a JAA meeting and am curious on what they'll be doing for testing. Also, it has been recommended by all linguists that level 6 be the level required for raters and interlocutors. It is very possible, especially in countries where more than one language is considered a native tongue, that these people spoke English as a second or foreign language, but that they are expert in it.

Was it all aviation (to follow the guidelines it must be)? If you could let me know some detail on the test and why you were taking it, I would be quite appreciative.
PE

[atco112]

Gconatyuk - your dam right its serious.

Heathrow Director - Me immature? Well your probably correct but must you be so predictable arnt you retired? Is it not time you hung up your mouse as well!

Behind my fatuous manner lies a perplexed Atco. Who gets paid to come up with these regulations and where can I get a piece of the action.:ugh:

[Hootin an a roarin]

atco112

Can I presume that you were pi**ed when you wrote this? For a 33 year old your grammar is appalling.

Have you ever considered a career in NATS management?

[ZRH]

The english test in Switzerland was computer based and a bit of a farce in my opinion. Multiple guess with multiple answers. Very grammar orientated. You had to basically select a word or a sequence of words to insert into a sentence.
There were a total of 50 questions with 5 answers to choose from per question.
The average was around 33 or so.

[Lookatthesky]

Gconatyuk - your dam right its serious.

Heathrow Director - Me immature? Well your probably correct but must you be so predictable arnt you retired? Is it not time you hung up your mouse as well!

Behind my fatuous manner lies a perplexed Atco. Who gets paid to come up with these regulations and where can I get a piece of the action.:ugh:


You're, not your!!

and arnt is not a word I recognise, do you mean aren't?

If that's level 6, I would dread to see anything lower. :sad:

[RAC/OPS]

If the language proficiency testers take it as seriously as the grammar/spelling police on here, we'll all be out of a job!

[atco112]

Maybe they should test for a sence of hummor before handing out a license but then unfortunately NATS would grind to a halt.

Lookatthesky I did say i wasnt good an english and i have not been tested yet so my shaksperian flair may not make level 6 do you think theyll fire me?

Hootin an a roaring as it happens I was half cut maybe you should try it you might lighten up maybe this will help

A girl from Oklahoma and a girl from Wisconsin were seated side by side on a plane.

The girl from Oklahoma being friendly and all said "So where y'all from?

The Wisconsin girl said, "From a place where they know better than to use a proposition at the end of a sentence."

The girl from Oklahoma sat quietly for a few minutes and replied, "So, where y'all from, bi:mad: ch

[Beetlejuice]

Maybe they should test for a sence of hummor before handing out a license but then unfortunately NATS would grind to a halt.

Lookatthesky I did say i wasnt good an english and i have not been tested yet so my shaksperian flair may not make level 6 do you think theyll fire me?

Hootin an a roaring as it happens I was half cut maybe you should try it you might lighten up maybe this will help

A girl from Oklahoma and a girl from Wisconsin were seated side by side on a plane.

The girl from Oklahoma being friendly and all said "So where y'all from?

The Wisconsin girl said, "From a place where they know better than to use a proposition at the end of a sentence."

The girl from Oklahoma sat quietly for a few minutes and replied, "So, where y'all from, bi:mad: ch

Good joke, shame about the English!

(4/10 - See me!!)

[planeenglish]

Actually, I heard it like this...

Tex went to London on a business trip. He decides to go sight-seeing. He hailed a cab and told the driver to show him some sights, but had only half an hour to do so.

The cab driver said "What would you like to see? Perhaps Buckingham palace would interest you." Tex replied, "Where's that at?" The cab driver looked at Tex and replied, "My dear sir, you should never end your sentence with a preposition." Tex looked at the cab driver with a small grin and replied, "Ok, Where's that at, a**hole?".

Apart from the English...

Off they went, the cab driver described some of the sights as they passed them. "...and over here we have the Palace of Westminster. It took 13 years to build." Tex laughed and replied, "Hell, in Texas we'd have built that in 6 months!".

The cab driver continued, "...and then we have Buckingham Palace. It took over 75 years to build." Tex laughed even harder this time and said, "Well, hell, I'd of had that built in 12 months, no problem".

By this time the cab driver was getting annoyed and drove past the Tower of London. Tex looked and waited for the cab driver to tell him more about this exciting edifice. The cab driver was silent. Finally, Tex asked, "Hey, what was that?". The cab driver looked around perplexed, "Oh, that sir, I've no idea. That wasn't here yesterday."

Best to all,
PE

[Passenger 9]

Guy D'ageradar Says:-
Had to sit mine a few months ago - what a load of b******s! As usual, Skyguide has come up with their own method of testing - all nicely prepared by German speakers who only know English as a second language. Result, several (multiple choice) questions WITH MULTIPLE CORRECT ANSWERS!!!:D Pointing this out after the test, I was informed that "this is normal for the anglophones" and that there was no problem. Pity that I passed really, I was hoping for a few weeks back home to brush up in the pub!:ugh:

ZRH says:-
The english test in Switzerland was computer based and a bit of a farce in my opinion. Multiple guess with multiple answers. Very grammar orientated. You had to basically select a word or a sequence of words to insert into a sentence.
There were a total of 50 questions with 5 answers to choose from per question.
The average was around 33 or so.

Point 1.
The test these two Swiss kontrollers had to do was not, I Say Again NOT, in any way shape and form, an Englisch test to assess them for the ICAO requirements. :( That is still comming. The eurocontrol test in 2007.

Point 2.
Yes it is "a load of b******s!" and "computer based and a bit of a farce".
Thats cause it has been organised by someone who has no idea what they are meant to be doing or how to organize. :suspect:

Point 3.
The people who have been sitting this skyguide test have also not been correctly informed about what this test is about. :uhoh:

Point 4.
skyguide had chance a couple of years ago to be ahead in this department, but due department managers with little knowledge of ATC, lacking communication skill, and a lack of appretiation of how big this testing thing really is, did little as possible to help things along the right way. Having wrong kind of people placed in charge of project of this importance does not help.

:)
Now listen up skyguide controllers. You will be doing a real test, from eurocontrol, which you have to pass, or you do not get to talk to pilots.
Its as simple as that. :) If you want to know what the test will be like ask eurocontrol.

Even better; in Switzi nearly all swiss pilots private to commercial know nothing about the standard thay will have to make. Yes balloon and glider pilot too if they want to fly in kontrolled air space.

Me, Passenger 9; My English is not perfekt, but I hope to pass what ever test the FOCA/BAZL give me. If they have one ;)

So be good you kontroller types and I will be a good passenger 9 and tell you if I dont understand you :) :) :) :) :)

[planeenglish]

This is Eurocontrol's test...
ELPAC
New English language test

A new project plans to develop a spoken English language test for selection. This test, together with the ELPAC test represents the Agency's response in support of the European Union's Directive on English language proficiency.

[Guy D'ageradar]

planeenglish , sorry for the delay - ZRH has already answered the question - basically multiple choice, fill in the gaps, completely grammar orientated and about as useful as the people that passenger 9 mentions!

passenger9 now tell us something we don't know!:E