Jetstar Pilots paid 400K per year!!!

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Read between the lines people! Rod Meyer of the Age says so!

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/qantas-fuel-levy-rise-to-cost-staff/2006/08/17/1155407956221.html

I love this quote: Qantas plans to grow Jetstar International strongly at the expense of some of its underperforming international operations.

What ? This is the same Jetstar that yesterday reported a whopping 11m dollar profit from its 23 aeroplanes? Which part of the Qantas group is really underperforming here?

[puff]

Interesting to see where he got that information...QF perhaps. QF realise that the pilots will get no sympathy from the public about their wages if they 'think' they are earning 400-500k a year! Truth is the first casualty of a war!

Union is going to find it hard to get as much air time from the media as what QF can get, esp with one person on the board!!!!

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Yes, you would almost think that QF is in dispute with its pilots already with some of the propaganda starting to be put out. Get used to it guys. If it is not crystal clear what the agenda is then maybe this will spell it out.

- Dixon has rejected combining the SH and LH awards which would have putatively offered efficiencies of 30%. Why would any CEO knock that back unless he had other plans?

- Dixon has refused to rule out AWA's on the A380. Now with the first Captain and FO slots already published and allocated, standby for new hire S/O's to be employed under AWA's which will strip away many of the LH award protections, and in all probability, pay a lot less than 744 S/O's. So much for the great career path many GA people are hoping for.

- Then we have the 787. It doesn't make any sense to have some 767/747/A330 pilots on an AWA and some not. The costs of trying to keep track of every pilots different contract provisions would nullify much of the savings. However when the 787 arrives (and these IR laws are still in place) we can see that your slot on the 787 will be predicated on your percieved "flexibility" to the Company's whim's. In other words, "Here is the 787 AWA, take it or leave it if you want to fly this aeroplane. We are starting at the JPC's wonderful offer of 160k for a Command."

So much for the profession. "What was the name of that trucking school Mav, Truckmaster wasn't it?"

[VH-Cheer Up]

Oooh, got to love a thread that has the word "putatively" in it!

Isn't this all shades of, errm.. that year whose number shall not be named... When a certain PM and an airline CEO conspired to disenfranchise a certain group of workers of any public sympathy?

Conspiracy theory, anyone?

BTW - are top QF Drivers really getting $500k?

[Dropt McGutz]

No. Almost half that.

[DutchRoll]

BTW - are top QF Drivers really getting $500k?
Bwahahahahahahaha!! I wish! There is not a line (note use of bold type) pilot who ever has or ever will make that kind of money in QF mainline. If they are making that, a lot of it is coming from their business on the side! (now that I could possibly believe, as there are some who are 'independently wealthy' who just also happen to be Qantas pilots)

[esreverlluf]

Then, in the same lovely piece of journalism;

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/qantas-fuel-levy-rise-to-cost-staff/2006/08/17/1155407956221.html

It would seem to imply that Jetstar flight attendants can expect to earn $270,000 - $350,000.

I think I'll hand in my ATPL and become a safety professional and blanket salesperson.

[Capn Bloggs]

blanket salesperson
Surely you don't have to pay for blankets on JQ?! :sad:

[SOPS]

Qantas pilots get $500.000 a year? I doubt it. But the public WILL believe it!!

And if the QF drivers dont realise it....the first shot in the battle has just been fired.

I will watch this with interest. When the "big guns" start to shoot, it will be very interesting to see who jumps where.

[jack red]

Only one way to stop this rot.............take on Dixon and his mates like the domestic pilots did to Abeles and Co. in 1989. My bet is Dixon wouldn't risk the financial disaster to Qantas and the pilots may just have the advantage.

Of course you would have to have the balls to try them on and I don't believe AIPA have them. It's easier to sit back and blame JetStar pilots for the demise of conditions. :=

[VH-Cheer Up]

Only one way to stop this rot.............take on Dixon and his mates like the domestic pilots did to Abeles and Co. in 1989.
Ah, yes... Fabulous idea.

But please remind me, how did that end again?

[VH-Cheer Up]

Surely you don't have to pay for blankets on JQ?! :sad:

"Not only that, but in the event of a decompression, attendants will be moving through the cabin selling "O2-Vend" masks you can plug into our overhead dispenser system. Along with one-size-fits-all, artisan created, "I thought I was gonna die, but instead I survived the terror-flight from hell" t-shirts. Have a nice flight."

[cunninglinguist]

Am I wrong or did the AIPA basically tell the impulse guys to :mad: originally....................who's laughin' now :confused:

[Aussie]

What a crock of BS!!!

QF pilots on upto 500K!!! Yeah right!


Aussie

[Casper]

Ah, yes... Fabulous idea.

But please remind me, how did that end again?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
It ended with the sad situation that pilots in Oz do not have any one union representing them. The AFAP lost the fight with support from 80% of the membership. Be very careful, AIPA, although it will not matter in the long term anyway.

[DutchRoll]

This is going to be a real problem. It's an unfortunate fact of life that the average Joe will uncritically believe literally anything they read in the paper or hear on the news that fits with their perception of reality or which sounds good, whether or not it's complete crap.

I can't even express enough contempt for the journos who report it without bothering to crosscheck it. But that's life. We know they tend to do that.

Time for some concerted PR efforts from our side.

[hotnhigh]

Great work cunninglist. I'd be laughing as well, with all the protections that the JPC agreement provides.:ugh:

[Ron & Edna Johns]

Actually, cunninglinguist, it was the then AIPA President, now QF Chief Pilot, who told Impulse blokes to :mad: originally. Most of us always wanted them onside, and still do....

[Ultralights]

Stop the rot? there is nothing left but rot! I remember approx 6 yrs ago, when the engineers went on their marches around the terminal, and on their series of rolling strikes, asking for support from their fellow employees, namly flight and cabin crew, all the engineers got was, nahh, we are alright thanks jack. wont happen to us kind of response.
as much as i despise QF management and execs, but i have to admit, they Won way back in 2000 when ALL QF staff refused to unite and help prevent the enginnering departments being forced into wage freezes.

IMO now, you have NO chance of winning..... and NO chance of stopping whatever Dixon and his henchmen desire to do to your employment conditions.....

I know what some will say. Unions this and unions that, you should have been telling the unions what to do, not letting them tell you what to do...

As said previously, the first shot in the PR has been fired, and its a direct hit... so spread those cheeks just a little wider and accept the inevitable.

as far as Joe public are concerned, even at $50K PA, you will still be considered an overpaid Bus driver, they dont care about the quality of the maintainence, or the skills of the flight crew if it means they can save $1.50 on their ticket.

[Sonny Hammond]

s far as Joe public are concerned, even at $50K PA, you will still be considered an overpaid Bus driver, they dont care about the quality of the maintainence, or the skills of the flight crew if it means they can save $1.50 on their ticket.

Until a plane crashes with 150 or so down the back. Then we'll see what the travelling public care about.

Crash a bus at cruise speed, pretty bad, a few deaths.

Crash a plane a landing speed, pretty bad, most dead.

How many on a bus?

[king oath]

I'm not sure why all the concern about what the general public think. Back in 89 it didn't matter jack sh*t.

Now with eba's or awa's it still doesn't matter a rats what joe public thinks. The public won't be asked to sign off on anything. The two parties involved will.

Spend your energy and money dealing with the Company.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Public opinion is very important. In '89 the ability of Hawke, Abeles etc to portray the domestic pilots as greedy and overpaid, allowed them to use the tactics they employed and get away with it. Joe Public, whilst perhaps uneasy about some of the tactics used, went along with it because the pilots were "getting theirs!"

That may be a little more difficult to do in this case, as there is no 29% pay claim being put forward, merely a CPI increase for appropriate offsets. Considering that there is no official dispute yet, one can only wonder why Dixon has come out punching so early?

[max autobrakes]

Correct , Cutest_of_Borg.

Let us critically look at some of the differences between what is occuring now and what happened back in '89.

Back in '89 pilots were asking for appx 30% pay rise as an opening gambit claim expecting to haggle back to somewhere around 15% or so ,pay rise in order to claw back what was believed to be some sort of wage parity/catch up.

This time what are they asking for ? CPI with productivity increases! How obscene!
Let me also add ,since privatisation of Qantas back in 1992 the only pay rises Qantas pilots have had, has been the equivalent to CPI over the same time frame.

As far as management mopping the floor with the pilots by portraying them as greedy ,overpaid ,underworked ,tall poppies worthy of cutting down to size ,we shall see. Should not be too hard to paint the obscene largesse of present day management as being nothing more than a Gordon Gekko inspired auction to see who can out bid the other to claim the mantle of "The Millionaires Club " off Macquarie Bank.

Also ,this time around ,the pilots have aligned themselves with the ACTU.
Should not be too hard to work out that when the starter's pistol for the Federal election is fired,the ACTU will be a valuable ally to have during the campaign to discredit John Howard and his WorkChoice legislation.;)

[DutchRoll]

That is naive in the extreme king oath.

It matters a lot what the public think - even the moronically stupid ones (especially the moronically stupid ones as these are the ones Today Tonight & A Current Affair love interviewing on the street). The media thrive on reporting public opinion and making news of it. Politicians will do almost anything to keep public opinion on their side as it affects their ability to win elections, funnily enough. Public opinion and the reporting of it has changed political decisions literally overnight, and has forced big companies into humiliating backdowns. If you do not have it on your side life becomes very, very difficult.

[Yusef Danet]

Has anybody contacted the Age (and presumably the same story was carried in the SMH) pointing out their gross error? They ought print a correction next day.

[max autobrakes]

Here's the Jorno's e-mail address if you wish to contact said gentleman and set him straight on the "real" facts.
[email protected]

[Grog Frog]

CoB, the ability to drive public perception 17 years ago was achieved because half of Ansett was owned by News Ltd..

Darth Dixon has little Jimmy Packer on his board, don’t you see a use for him apart from being a stud for super models, I’m sure Darth does !

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Grog, of course. That is why he is there. I am not saying AIPA won't be up against it, but if there is a dispute it will be driven from the Company, not the pilots. It won't be over a huge pay claim, just a responsible one.

People who want to see parallels with '89 all the time will have to look elsewhere.

[Ron & Edna Johns]

If you are going to contact Rod Myer, then I suggest you keep it factual and unemotional. Win the guy over with logic. Don't have a go at him, he is just the messenger, having obviously been feed complete fiction so far by QF management.

It is important to get guys like Rod Myer on OUR side.

[sixtiesrelic]

Ho Ho Kiddies!
Once the media says it, no one bothers to worry about the retraction.
They liked the lie. "Fancy tryin' to tell us they're NOt makin' 500K"
There's only a few of ya, so no one'll worry about ya' ... "Ya all ovepaid and WE don't care about ya!"
There's going to be aother big beaut bunfight and ya gunna lose!
As people have said above... It started insidiously years ago getting the wedge in between you.
Little Jimmy's havin a second go and he knows where they went wrong last time.

START SAVING!!!

Been there done that!
Most of you'll get over it and have a different life than you planned ... some'll find the new one more fun.

The stuff inside the inverted commas is the public's opinion and all the press releases and pamphlets and radio interviews won't make any difference.

[max autobrakes]

Dear Relic,
Before we give up all vestige of hope let us take a realistic look at what may transpire ,shall we.

Unlike the '89 dispute ,you won't have half as many pilots earning twice as much money come post revolution. Just have a look at the average hours flown by Qantas pilots today as opposed to the average pilots flew 17 years ago. I'd say you might be able to squeeze another 10-15% increase in productivity at best.Which means if the looming pilot shortages are anything to go by ,management will be forced to utilise existing resources to maintain services. So you will be left with appx 3000 odd very happy pilots won't you , NOT!
Then you are faced with the problems that are encountered continuosly by management today, whenever there are downline disruptions ,ie no readily available pilots to manage the disruptions with, since reserve coverage has been cut to the bone in the name of efficency. Just as an aside did you know that you need appx 12% reserve coverage just to cover annual leave ,yet Qantas is presently running at appx 10% reserve coverage or less. Might explain why Qantas pilots have so much leave accrued!.Therefore there won't be the same leverage over the pilots to capitulate, nor the same incentive to work come the supposed inevitable.
What you want me to spend more time away from home for 30% less, hell yes, where do I sign.
So management will be faced with potentially a largely hostile pilot group bearing a sizable grudge wouldn't you say? Very conducive to a happy, productive workforce don't you think?

I would also like to comment on the much maligned and denigrated Longhaul award that is supposedly the root of all Qantas' evils.
The longhaul award was the result of a long and hostile drawn out struggle between the pilots of Australia and airline management teams of the time. The result being strikes in '57 '64 and '66 whereby management finally capitulated and the pilots won the right to introduce the North American Bidding System which was finally negotiated in 1967 by collective bargaining, together with the Government inititive of a Flight Crew Officers Industrial Tribunal.
The result being Qantas enjoying Industrial peace with it's pilots for close on 40 years.In fact the Industrial judges have described AIPA as the quintessential Union.
The sticking point I believe present management find with the Longhaul award is the descriptive nature of said award, in other words the legally binding and descriptive nature of the award gives unscrupulous types no room to "screw" people. This being in response to the belligerent attitudes of management of the time.It's amazing how the more things change the more things stay the same!

In fact the parallels between the then boss of Qantas, C.O. Turner and present day boss Geoff Dixon are uncanny.
To quote from well known Qantas founder ,Hudson Fysh, describing the then Boss of Qantas, C.O. Turner:

" he is completely, absolutely money and power mad... ruthlessly ambitious...flies into a temper...we are poles apart and antagonistic... on the other hand his mind is brilliant"

It is truly amazing how often history repeats itself. :ugh:

[max autobrakes]

Sorry, finger trouble

[neville_nobody]

Max Autobrakes: :D

[argus.moon]

Maybe he thinks Howard is going to lose the next election. :ok:

[sixtiesrelic]

I hope you're right boys, but I don't like your chances.

[Ejector]

So the rumor that KFC is trying to buy Jetstar isn’t true after all hey. Lucky for the kids at KFC anyway, bad for the J* kids as they get to keep their new found conditions. Apply to KFC for your second job. $400k, yeah right. J* is becoming GA now in the T & C department. :yuk:

Maybe they can get more money by selling the 11 Herbs and spices.:ok:

Little tip:
paprika
garlic salt
onion salt
oregano
sage
rosemary
thyme
parsley
salt
black pepper
ginger

[mustafagander]

MaxAuto, you are quite right, but just for the record it was C. O. Turner - Cedric Oliver in fact.

[Hugh Jarse]

Okay Ejector,

Spill yer guts. What's the rest of the Killer F*#&king Chicken recipe?:8

MMMMMmmmmmm. Chiiiiiickennnn:E

[max autobrakes]

Mustafagander,
My apologies, you are correct ,I must have CEO's on the brain.
Teach me not to proof read prior to publishing.

[Taildragger67]

From that Age article:

"Jetstar International pilots earn around $100,000 a year less than their Qantas counterparts and work up to 200 hours a year more."


???!!!!

Can that be right? :eek:

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Comparing apples with apples;

Jetstar pilot earn approximately 100k less than their Qantas counterparts.

Jetstar pilots who come across to fly the A330 will potentially earn 85k less than what a QF A330 pilot might potentially earn if you take the QF guys ALL working to the MAXIMUM divisor of 175 hours per bid period; 235k. ( I have left allowances out of both equations.)

But that is not currently happening. QF A330 pilots are on the MINIMUM 160 hours per bid period (and a large percentage of them are either rotating to a blank or reserve line which has a minimum guarantee of 151 hours). Those QF Captains who not rotating are on 215 K. The rotators are on less than that, (Approx 200K).

SO, now it gets interesting because the word is that not many Jetstar domestic pilots have put their hands up to fly the A330 on 152k a year that their genius council negotiated for them. Also, not many expats have signed either. To get people applying they have offerred C&T's 230k, and direct entry line Captains 180K. (one wonders what the Jetstar pilots feel about that.)

Anyway to sum up. A QF pilot A330 pilot has the potential to earn 85k more than a non-direct entry Jetstar Captain. But it's not happening now (it's not even close!) and may never actually happen.

As far as hours go, it remains to be seen... Jetstar will run across the same problem that QF have... lack of daily services to many ports; I can't see them being able to get anywhere near the hours out of their pilots that they want.. (900 hours mooted) so the jury is out on that one.

(Edited for arithmetic)

[QFinsider]

I hear also a few JPC members are bathing in the political payoff....
A "temporary A320" :mad: (they weren't Captains on the B717 either)

[max autobrakes]

Just ask the Aussie Airlines Pilots what they averaged.
Similar open ended contract, similar style of flying, similar schedule frequency.
Nowhere near 900+ Hrs a year.
Tell J* management they're dreaming.

So how does one obtain a 12% return on capital investment with a low yield airline more prone to economic downturns. Can't possibly be a long term business model can it?:}

[Taildragger67]

Just ask the Aussie Airlines Pilots what they averaged.
Similar open ended contract, similar style of flying, similar schedule frequency.
Nowhere near 900+ Hrs a year.
Tell J* management they're dreaming.

So how does one obtain a 12% return on capitol investment with a low yield airline more prone to economic downturns. Can't possibly be a long term business model can it?:}

You do what GD has said he'll do, flip it to the poor stockmarket punter when it's managed to make a buck in the good times (when it would require active mismanagement to stuff it up), collect a nice little bonus from Ms. J., walk away and straight into an office with a certain bank... :yuk:

[max autobrakes]

That wouldn'd be the same bank Bob Carr now "consults" at, would it?
I'm sure Geoff would be eligible, he's already a millionaire if he joins that club.:}

[Pete Conrad]

And with no further reference to the JPC or Jetstar pilots returning to the table for further negotiations if there is a new type introduced, it remains to be seen whether they will stick with the current EBA plus widebody addition, or be forced by the company into AWA's....

The JPC have negotiated themselves into a corner. They know it, everyone else knows it, Dixon is capitalising on it.

[Keg]

Did the retraction that was alluded to ever get published? :ugh: