SAA Technical slammed over racism

[putt for dough]

BUSINESS NEWS
SAA slammed over 'racism'

Thu, 17 Aug 2006
The SA Transport and Allied Workers Union (Satawu) has accused a division of SA Airways of racism and non-compliance with employment equity laws.

"SAA Technical remains lilywhite at the top and pitch black at the bottom," Satawu spokesperson Ronnie Mamba said on Thursday.

Mamba said over 95 percent of top level management was currently white.

"After 12 years of democracy, the SAA Technical department has vehemently refused to transform... refusing to adequately train black workers to let them move higher or to acknowledge government's employment equity act."

Employee quotas

A break down of employee quotas as provided by Satawu showed that:

— at executive level, nine white, two Indian and one black person was employed.

— at senior management level, 32 white, two Indian and three black people were employed.

— at junior management level, 47 white, three Indian and five black people were employed.

— at technical supervisory level, 165 white, four Indian, two black and four coloured people were employed. This was the highest level of employment for coloured people in the company.

— at senior technicians level, 320 white, 16 Indian, nine coloured and six black people were employed.

Mamba said nearly all team leaders in the division were white males.

Incidents Mamba cited which "bordered on blatant racism" included a white employee who told a black employee that "all my efforts to turn you into a white man have failed. You remain a kaffir".

Mamba said the white employee was still employed by SAA Technical.

Black worker assaulted

Further accounts of racism included a white technician who assaulted a black technician and was then promoted.

"We will no longer tolerate white domination in SAA Technical or any other division or subsidiary of SAA."

He added that Satawu was not recognised as a union at the division in spite of having 500 workers from the division signed as members.

He said black workers who worked as craftsmen for ten years had no training while their white counterparts progressed to senior positions through training programmes.

"If the division does not improve its record on race relations and transformation, an indefinite strike action — should negotiations not produce concrete results — will proceed."

Mamba said the deadline for negotiations to conclude was one month.

"Satawu is of the view that aviation is a very a strategic component of our national economy. It (the company) therefore has a responsibility to be in the forefront of government's transformation programmes."

SAA was not immediately able to comment.

Sapa

[putt for dough]

It was just a matter of time....:ouch:

[6-String]

Quote: "Incidents Mamba cited which "bordered on blatant racism" included a white employee who told a black employee that "all my efforts to turn you into a white man have failed. You remain a kaffir". "
---
I don't get it? What the hell was he thinking?

Racist language removed. Yellow card, 6-String. One more & you're out of here. 4HP

[Solid Rust Twotter]

What a mong comment. There's already a problem with folks trying to join SAA getting turned down because of that kind of attitude

Try to contribute to a solution, not to the problem.

[6-String]

Yeah sure! Sorry! I phuqd up! There I was thinking that SAA stopped taking white pilots because of a racist policy prohibiting them from doing so...? Oops!

As for contributing to the solution: I already did that! I resigned from SAA and pissed off abroad; many years ago! :}

[putt for dough]

Incidents Mamba cited which "bordered on blatant racism" included a white employee who told a black employee that "all my efforts to turn you into a white man have failed. You remain a kaffir".

Just hang on a sec here guys.....
This seems to me to be blatant propoganda from the media.
Who is to say that this is what exactly happened?
If it is, well I don't know anymore!
But this could just be a report from another journo
trying to get a reponse, therefore recognition for his " great article."

I smell a rat in this journo's piece:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Jumping on the bandwagon doesn't help, boet. I know the system is frustrating as hell but two wrongs don't make a right.:ok:

[putt for dough]

SRT

That was for 6 string correct? Excuse me I am just a little confused
to your previous posting.

Peace:ok:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Affirmatronative.

[hiflyerz]

:hmm: Most of us,if not all, won't frown upon the BEE, affirmative action,etc.,etc.,policies if - I say again, IF... it is based on merit and performance regarding the positions required for the particular job/task.
My personal opinion, unfortunately, is that until we discover extraterrestrial life, or they land here on earth......it will not happen!!

[putt for dough]

:hmm: Most of us,if not all, won't frown upon the BEE, affirmative action,etc.,etc.,policies if - I say again, IF... it is based on merit and performance regarding the positions required for the particular job/task.
My personal opinion, unfortunately, is that until we discover extraterrestrial life, or they land here on earth......it will not happen!!

Well said son :ok: :ok:
I gotta agree with you there. Pity it doesn't happen with our
sport teams either :yuk: :yuk:

[Gilksy]

:hmm: Just hang on a sec here guys.....
This seems to me to be blatant propoganda from the media.
Who is to say that this is what exactly happened?
If it is, well I don't know anymore!
But this could just be a report from another journo
trying to get a reponse, therefore recognition for his " great article."

I smell a rat in this journo's piece:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

I couldn't agree more.

[6-String]

Okay, I won't use the K word again. It's not my website so, I don't really have a right to complain about censorship either!

As for racism: my experience of living abroad for many years, and meeting many white South Africans abroad, has shown me that I must have been the only white racist living in SA and voting for the Nats during the Apartheid days (which I must be honest; I sincerely miss!) and that being as it is, I must have held one helluva vote!

What happened to all those white blokes that I knew in the Army, and went to Zim, Angola and Namibia with, to kill people in the name of Apartheid? Either they all died up there, or they were forced to go and it wasn't really there fault that they were there in the first place because John Vorster and PW Botha probably forced them to sign up. And those blokes in the Air Force who used to arrive in their Imps or Gunships and blow the heads off of the people that I'd been chasing for a week, in an instant, and then go and get pissed in the Ondangs Air Force Base that night whilst I hid in the bush for weeks on end without food and water?

Where are these people? Sure, we can't ruin this feller's website here with racism and comments like the one I posted above deserve DELETION! But one thing 4HP, and any other white South African who thinks I'm a bit extreme or far right; don't you ever deny your past. You're not really any different to me!!! :}

[MrBernoulli]

6-String,

I'm an African myself and I yearn for what my part of Africa was ...... NOT what it is now. However, you are walking a very fine line here and you have already been warned. Play it cool or you'll be outta here........

[Shrike200]

6-String, there are quite a few of us (those under the age of about 33 or so?) who had nothing to do with apartheid, never fought it's wars, and recognised that it was a doomed policy - and we're now in the prime of our careers (supposedly), and WE'RE the ones who'll pay the most, for the longest, for that past. I don't have a problem with what you said at all. Denying one's past is silly, like you say. Just remember, as time passes, those who lived with apartheid will be outnumbered more and more by those who didn't choose it, indeed who had no choice at all - but who continue to pay for it.

I guess my point is....it sucks. But I don't want to be lumped into the same category as you (thats not an insult of any kind, just a statement), and on these forums age is not apparent. I belong to the modern 'performance orientated' attitude, not the 'skin colour' attitude.

Which still means I have huge problems with the current system and its results, but thats another story.

[napoleon]

Hey Shrikey man where did you go to school?

[6-String]

Point taken. I'm not convinced by the age cap that you place on the issue, but I know what you're getting at.

Fact is: the second world war has been over for about 61 years and Germans are still looked at (generally speaking) as Nazis. Look through this Africa Forum and you will find many references to them in this or a similar light. In the same manner, white South Africans will, for many years to come, be viewed as racists. Just as most Germans were Nazis (or Nazi followers) in the '40's, so most white South Africans were racists until quite recently. A point substantiated by the regime which we kept in power until 1994. My personal feelings in this regards haven't improved at all, nor will they whilst my European tax bill feeds African children so that corrupt African politicians can accumulate personal wealth in otherwise impoverished countries.

As much as I'd like to belong to the "performance oriented" category too, my experience (and perhaps synicism) doesn't allow me to; at least not where Africa is concerned.

I put it to you that, on an individual basis, performance will never ever be the job selection criteria of South Africa, nor has it ever been. The only performance based system that ever worked well there, was that of the performance of a collective few.

[Shrike200]

Well, I can't really argue with anything you say there 6-String, that's for sure.

[3rdBogey]

De: A racist is a white or very light skinned person who says anything or does anything negative or fails to do anything positive towards another person of any colour.
a person of colour doing likewise is acceptable.
A person of colour doing likewise to a white skinned person, is fairplay.

Period.

[Shrike200]

I had to laugh at the irony of the front page headline Sunday Times article, entitled: 'BLACKS ARE THE BIGGEST RACISTS', which went on to explain in more detail of course. The gist of it was that those interviewed (the article states that they were consistent with the nations demographic statistics) felt that they were routinely discriminated against by other blacks. The numbers they quoted indicated that those interviewed felt it occured more frequently than being discriminated against by whites. Whilst reading it, I was just waiting for somebody to whine 'It's all apartheid's fault!', and sure enough, there it was at the bottom of one of the columns, attributed to a certain Tinyiko Malukleke, UNISA's Executive Director of Research. They couldn't fail to play the old faithful 'blame apartheid' card YET AGAIN!

[Airforce1]

:\ This all too much takes us back to thread that was on here a long time ago, about "www.neverflysaa.com"
In the one article it spoke of how SAA top management attempted to buy the "pale" engineers an early retirement-so they could start the transformation from a technical side.

In 2000, SAA also started offering the overwhelmingly white technical staff retirement packages to withdraw and make way for black technicians. Many whites accepted, particularly after the Australian airline, Qantas, and the Spanish airline, Iberian Air, heard about the offers and set up recruiting offices in Johannesburg. SAA was stripped of many of its most experienced repair and service personnel overnight.
from http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2004/09/black_empowerme.php

Whether this happened, or fell through...???
maybe someone from the technical side of SAA can tell us, or is this Journo doin a litttle propaganda as prev mentioned?
6String you make a good point with regard to the stereo typing German-Nazi's and White SA-Racist. :(

[DawnTreader]

Just as most Germans were Nazis (or Nazi followers) in the '40's, so most white South Africans were racists until quite recently.

That's quite a statement. It appears to have an element of truth about it and it may convince many, however, the truth is different. The Nationalist government did not need 51% of the vote. With the 'first past the post system' they needed much less. Pieter Dirk Uys, in one of his skits, claimied that only around 100,000 voted for the Nats during one election.

I also don't think the article is balanced. Many of the AMO folk I know are of Afrikaner descent. The fact that one or two might say something like the above is not surprising. Why highlight some bad apples?? Besides, one's parents have a knack of passsing down attitudes that were normal for them and change is a slow process. Nobody was sent to reconditioning classes ;) (yet)

Why is there is uch shock that white people are dominating this section of aviation. White, black, green, coloured so what! As long as the aircraft they work on are not falling out of the sky.

I say a slow transformation is better. You can't transplant 100 years of expertise in such a short time. We have seen far too many failing SA industries and government departments that have changed too rapidly with disastrous results For example - Koeberg Power Station blackouts & expensive mistakes & coverups; the crooked Councils who aren't cutting it; the lazy, indadequate police officers who don't solve crime; hospital employees who just don't want to work and keep stealing blankets and medicine; the army raping people whilst on UN duty; teachers who can't cut it etc .. etc. Arguably ALL of these are as a result of undertrained, newly hired political appointments who thought they knew how to do the job.

If we get even a small percentage of this problem in aviation - then I'm outer here because things are going to get messy.

[poorwanderingwun]

As a visitor to SA for a relatively short couple of years and having arrived with no pre-concieved ideas I have to admit to becoming ever more dissillusioned with those in power. Apart from the fact that several of them are blatently certifiable their insistence on blaming there own obvious failings on long past political policies will lead only to the slow destruction of what is a wonderful country with an excellent infrastructure. The success or failure of SA will largely depend on having the right people at shop floor level... a strong work ethic and ability are essential if the country is not going to slide irrevocabley into the downward spiral that predominates in the rest of this sad continent.

[Shrike200]

As a visitor to SA for a relatively short couple of years and having arrived with no pre-concieved ideas I have to admit to becoming ever more dissillusioned with those in power. Apart from the fact that several of them are blatently certifiable their insistence on blaming there own obvious failings on long past political policies will lead only to the slow destruction of what is a wonderful country with an excellent infrastructure. The success or failure of SA will largely depend on having the right people at shop floor level... a strong work ethic and ability are essential if the country is not going to slide irrevocabley into the downward spiral that predominates in the rest of this sad continent.

Precisely.....now try saying that out loud, and getting called a racist. Ridiculous, isn't it?

[6-String]

QUOTE: "Pieter Dirk Uys, in one of his skits, claimied that only around 100,000 voted for the Nats during one election.
---
Pardon me if I don't quite fully accept Pieter Dirk Uys as a reliable source of statistical information..! The statement you quote above is based on a lifetime spent living in a predominantly white South Africa. Working, socialising, being educated, signing up into the military and much more...

I say again: In all of my years in WHITE South Africa, nary did I encounter a non-racist white South African. In the past ten years of living abroad, I am completely unable to find one that, like me, was an apartheid era rascist white South African.

[4HolerPoler]

Please get this thread back to the topic and away from the old racism spiral dive. Sure it's an issue but it has no place on this site.

4HP

[MercenaryAli]

. . for many years and sorry to say the WORST racism I EVER experienced was between the different AFRICAN tribes within the country. So please don't be given us white folks lessons! :ugh:

[DawnTreader]

Please get this thread back to the topic and away from the old racism spiral dive. Sure it's an issue but it has no place on this site.
4HP
The thread is entitled "SAA Technical slammed over racism" which is what is being discussed is it not??

Racism is a big issue at the moment because of the way transformation is being implemented in South Africa, which has the biggest aviation industry in Africa. If the radios, newspapers & TV are full of this type of discussion, then I don't think you can keep it off the forum without blocking all South African issues. We certainly cannot stop the government here from making race an issue in South African aviation!!

[6-String]

It is a spiral dive, I agree. It's a messy topic too. But it is also one which WE South Africans need to get used to discussing, avoid avoiding and start telling the truth about! It is also a reality which affects the lives of most South African pilots daily. Not allowing RACISM as a topic at PPRUNE is absurd.

[4HolerPoler]

Let me get this straight & anyone who's been on this site more than a few months will already understand me - you can shoot the breeze all day here on issues concerning racism that are aviation related - what I will not tolerate is a black on white racial debate which serves no purpose other to incite the issue further. Got it?

4HP

[napoleon]

Do I smell a rat here or is someone touchy?

[Shrike200]

No, 4HP has just been around longer than you (correction: a *lot* longer than you) - he's right - the issure here is racism at a specific place, namely SAA technical. You obviously haven't been here to see the degeneration of almost all other threads on racism in general. I say again - this is about a specific case of alleged racism, not racism in general. I think we all know enough about racism in general....any more is just preaching to the choir.

[6-String]

Just re-read the entire thread and quite honestly, other than an already cut out and apologised for K-word, all I see are a few concerned people airing their opinions on racism in South Africa and SA Aviation in general. I certainly don't see anyone enciting the issue as such

Racism IS an issue in South African aviation. It always has been. I hazard the statement that it always will be. And that is all that I have to say about that.

[napoleon]

I have noticed in south avaition if your not a racist then two things are plain:1) You aint South African. 2) If you are a South African, then your a moffie. Simple

[I.R.PIRATE]

See the biggest problem is when one is discussion realities. Those that are normally the subject of discussion dont like the scrutiny and the bad rep that they have created for themselves, so they call any such talk racism, when in fact it is nothing more than REALISM. Mentioning the truth is not racism, only when it suits someone to use as an excuse or a crutch, then the reality becomes racism.

[napoleon]

VOILA VOUS AVEZ EXACTEMENT!

[Shrike200]

I have noticed in south avaition if your not a racist then two things are plain:1) You aint South African. 2) If you are a South African, then your a moffie. Simple

I'd like to vote this post 'moronic and most juvenile statement of the thread'. Seconded?

[napoleon]

What was it Robbie Burns once said "Oh what a gift te geeus te see ower sels as others see us."

[4HolerPoler]

Thread closed - please feel free to start another one.

4HP