Not allowed to fly in UK due to the fact that my PPL was done abroad

[badboy raggamuffin]

Hi all, thought I might seek the views of some of you instructors on this, hope u dont mind.
Basically I hold a UK issued PPL which I gained over in Spain earlier this year from a CAA registered flying school, taught entirely by British instructors and examined by a British examiner.
I have however been told by a couple of flying schools that they will not let me hire out one of their planes due to my licence having been gained abroad. Apparently they have had "too many problems with foreign trained pilots before."
Whilst I can appreciate that some of the UK atc procedures might be a bit different to abroad, surely a check flight, as I believe is the norm anyway for new customers, would be enough to sort out any differences?
Is this kind of policy the norm throughout flying schools in the Uk, and if not what is the attitude of other schools to PPLs earned abroad?
Cheers

[SD.]

I'm not a UK FI and don't know the legal answer. But I know the moral answer.........


Tell them to stick their school where the sun don't shine and take your business elsewhere.:mad: :mad:

[BEagle]

I can't understand their attitude.

All you should need is a check ride with one of their instructors who will then say whether or not he's happy for you to rent an aircraft.

[unfazed]

Sounds like a case of :confused: Prejudice

[Julian]

With BEagle on this one, cant understand their attitude - especially with a lot of clubs needing new members at the moment.

They are probably just upset that you didnt spend you PPL money with them so either ask if you do a club checkride with them and a couple of hours to adjust to the UK or take your money to another club - or join a group syndicate scheme.

J.

[B2N2]

Unfortunately, a perfect example of the current prejudice against foreign trained pilots.
Sad and absolutely ridiculous to treat a potential customer this way.
Take your business elsewhere, this arrogance will cost them dearly in the long run.

[LD Max]

God forbid a foreign licence holder should want to rent a plane then!!! :rolleyes:

Madness!

[Kaptain Kremen]

Standard check ride as with any new hirer, maybe a bit extra on UK procedures and if they can do the do then job done.
One word sums up the schools you mentioned. Prejudice. Plain and simple.
KK

[foxmoth]

Sounds like cutting off their nose to spite their faces, after all if you are not up to their standard on the check ride it is more in their coffers training you to that level.:hmm:

[3 Point]

Got to agree with everyone else on this. You hold a JAR pilot's licence so you can legally fly the aeroplane, I'd be happy to have your business subject to the usual checkout.

Happy landings

3 Point

[bookworm]

Might be your troll-like appearance that puts them off... ;)

[VFE]

Could be that due to past accidents (however minor) involving pilots trained abroad that their insurers have placed a restriction on them hiring out to foreign trained pilots? Just a thought....

My view is that they're losing out on potential business - must be that they don't need the money, apparently there're still a couple of clubs like that around these days, but not many I bet!

It is the flying club's perogative who they hire out to (insurers aside) and not many people in business turn down good money therefore my gut feeling is that their insurers have insisted upon this, however it's a new one on me and if I were the person who told you "sorry, no way...", I'd have made the reasons why very clear!

VFE.

[Han 1st Solo]

Got to agree with the above posts, normal check ride with an instructor required and if need be a bit of time on local procedures then off you go. Obviously schools not worth bothering with, i'm sure you will find plenty of other schools that will be happy to have your business.

[cessna l plate]

Prejudice yes, without a doubt.
Insurance reasons aside, there is an in-built prejudice against foreign trained pilots. One CFI told me recently, when I mentioned I was thinking of going to Florida to finish my ppl, that I would need another 5 to 10 hours minimum before he would let me loose in one of his planes.

This is part of the problem, and I know a lot of guys trained in the USA, and there are some very good schools out there. But this is a hangover from the old days when you coldn't get a JAA PPL in America, you got an FAA one and converted it when you got home.The standards were perceived as lower. And in addition, although there are good schools out there, there are also some sausage factories that only want your dollar. Standards at these schools are poor in the extreme, and the pilots they churn out are an "unsure of position" waiting to happen.

All that said, there are some greedy characters out there, who will string your training along a bit to make more dough.

I would suggest trying another club at the same airfield. As you trained under JAA in Spain, then a quick check ride should suffice, or at worst a couple of hours tuition to brush up your skills, and lets be fair, taking an instructor along for the ride now and again isnt a bad idea anyway!

[DFC]

I can't understand their attitude.
All you should need is a check ride with one of their instructors who will then say whether or not he's happy for you to rent an aircraft.

Bit of old double standards BEagle.

Not so long ago you were very sure that you would never employ a JAA qualified instructor who was trained abroad.

If a pilot has a JAA licence then they are entitled to be treated exactly the same as any other JAA licence holder. Thus the school was discriminating by not letting you do a check flight before maing a decision regarding suitability.

Regards,

DFC

[Bumz_Rush]

Might have solution to your problem...

Bumz

[foxmoth]

Bit of old double standards BEagle.

Not so long ago you were very sure that you would never employ a JAA qualified instructor who was trained abroad.

A bit of a difference here, On hiring someone you might do an assesment flight with them, but it would not be normal practice for them to then do additional trips at their to get them to employable standard (which they may never reach and are in competition against other qualified instructors). Renting an aircraft does not have this limitation.:ugh:

[G-ANDY]

I'm currently in the process of checking out a JAA PPL holder who got his licence in America. Had only planned on an hour check ride doing some stalls, PFL's, steep turns and circuits, but have now flown two trips and need another one for some circuits. Hopefully then I will sign him off to use our aircraft.

I had no past experience or opinion of overseas training, but was slightly concerned when my student had never be taught about carb-heat and when stalling, decided to put in huge boot-fulls of rudder.

My student who got his licence only in May admits he needs these few extra hours to build his confidence and get used to UK airspace and procedures. In this case its a win-win situation where the student builds confidence and can hire our aircraft and we, the flying school get a new customer. Plus, I get to demo a PFL which is fun!!

[sir.pratt]

isn't the air thicker in the UK than in spain, so the aircraft flies slower?

and carb heat in florida? in the summer? in an injected 172? hahaha! no wonder he didn't know what it was

[Final 3 Greens]

sir.pratt

You might wish to read the following.....

http://www.flycorvair.com/carbice.html

http://www.pilotfriend.com/articles/carbicing.htm

And if the stude learned on an injected 172, he should still have learned about the use of carb heat as a general topic.

[Opsdog]

I think the fact that a PPL holder gained his license in a foreign state is irrelevant, a license is not reflection of ability.

Thankfully, standardisation of JAA training (at least in this country) is pushing dodgy practises and schools out. A structured syllabus and monitoring of training facilities will eventually lead to a level playing field as far as minimum knowledge and ability required to gain a license.

I am sure we have all come across people turning up wanting a quick check flight with a view to hiring, that have turned out to be complete and utter f***wits not to be allowed within ten miles of an aeroplane. Not all of these are foreign license holders or JAA license holders trained abroad. Infact, a high percentage are trained in the UK.

Only today, on a check flight with a UK PPL/IMC holder, when asked why he didn't use the carb heat once during the flight, replied "But it's the summer, you only use carb heat during the winter when it is icy". Then after a PFL on the go around, tried to raise all three stages of flap in one go at low IAS argued that he had been taught that "the aircraft would accelerate better when clean"!!! (doesn't accelerate very well ploughing a hole in the ground).

My point. we should not pre judge a person based on the license he holds, or the state that he received training for that license, but by assesment during a check flight or flights, and a good grilling on the peculiarities of UK airspace, law and procedures.

There are some very good schools abroad employing some very dedicated and professional instructers, and then again!!

[BillieBob]

Here we go again - someone with a vanishingly small posting history poses a completely fictitious circumstance and is never seen again - Meanwhile, the usual suspects fall for it hook line and sinker, generating a completely spurious debate and decrying a circumstance that has never, in fact, existed.

Can you all really not see that you have been played for fools?

Remember -

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.

[Opsdog]

Billie Bob

I don't see how my previous post could be considered contentious in any way, it was an opinion based on experience. As for the fact that I have very few posts, I have very little time spend glued to PPRuNE when trying to fit in 3 jobs and a family.

I didn't realise that membership and authenticity on PPRuNE was based on attendance.

As for yourself, if you have managed to breeze through your instructing career without experiencing the sort of person I describe, you have been extremely lucky.

Oh well that is one more post towards that magic number, what ever that might be!

[bookworm]

I don't see how my previous post could be considered contentious in any way, it was an opinion based on experience.
He's not talking about your post. I was slightly disappointed by the failure of "badboy raggamuffin" to reappear. A truly skilled troll can often only be appreciated on his response to the first round of replies. ;)

[badboy raggamuffin]

Why all these "troll" accusations? Billie Bob, you are a sad man who needs to get out more.
Cheers for all the replies supporting my cause, I felt no further need to post as I have nothing more to say on the issue, the replies I have received have answered my original question and I am now fairly sure that the flying schools I have spoken to are not the norm wrt their attitude to foreign licences.

Actually I take that back, I am actually a journalist and am writing an article entitled "British Flying Schools Prejudice to Foreign Licences, shock! horror!" which will shortly be appearing in the next issue of my publication.
Some people really are complete tossers, and I take great offence at their pathetic efforts to discredit my queery.
The reason why I have a low post count is because I only just discovered this site recently.
I piss on the likes of Billy Bob and bookworm from a great height.

[bookworm]

I piss on the likes of Billy Bob and bookworm from a great height.

That's more like it! Though I always thought affronted but polite worked better than crude and beligerent. ;)

[GusHoneybun]

Of course, that great height you require for urination will have to be a building as nobody seems to want to rent you an aircraft. especially if you're planning a piddle from said puddle jumper.

[HillerBee]

badboy raggamuffin

Why don't you just change the licence issuing state to the UK. It take one from to the Spanish CAA and one to the UK CAA (and a fee of course). Then you just have a UK issued JAA licence. There nothing wrong with that and it solves your problem.