Chad rip-off threads combined

[corndog]

We recently optained a court order to retrieve our aircraft from Chad.

The operator there disabled the hobbs and flew our BE20 for 150hours more than the hobbs indicated. We know this thanks to our hidden hobbs.

They damaged the aircraft through a hard landing but still flew it with a broken oleo.

The lease to purchase agreement went south a few months ago when the operator failed to pay his installments.

Although we tried to come to an agreement the operator refused to allow us to fix the aircraft or bring it back to SA.

The bad part is that the CHAD government was of no help and even arrested our crew when they went to retrieve the aircraft with a South African court order.

The aircraft is now stuck there and I understand that Interpol will now get involved.

So, be aware of what you are getting yourself into when sending your aircraft to Chad.

[AfricanSkies]

Last time I went there we landed at 2am in a Force 9 storm after Nigeria had closed our alternate airport and when we declined to leave again in ++RA GU40 etc immediately after refuelling we got guns stuck in our faces... what a charming spot:*

[Solid Rust Twotter]

It's unfortunate that Africa manufactures it's own poor reputation...:(

[Tbushpilot]

In June 2005 I bought a Be 20 in Lanseria on lease purchase agreement. The deal was 200.000 $ deposit and 36 x 30.000 $ instalments from the aircraft delivery in Chad. I paid 200.000 $ on June 10th and the sellers promised to deliver the aircraft at the end of June with a new painting. I was so enthusiastic that I added 33.000 $ to upgrade the avionics (GNS 430)

In December 2005 the aircraft was not yet ready. The seller demanded me extra 90.000 $ supposed to be Oct. Nov. and Dec. instalments. He said without this extra he would not deliver the aircraft and not return the money. I paid, a little bit upset.

The aircraft was ready in February 2006 (with a poor cheap painting) but the seller said he was not selling the aircraft any more and would not return my money. Then to decrease my rage he said we could go to Chad with a simple lease agreement. Once again, no choice !

We flew 4 months in Chad and the aircraft had to return to South Africa for maintenance and gear failure. But the seller does not want to come back to the lease purchase agreement nor return my money. I understand that if the aircraft returns to South Africa I shall have no aircraft and loose all my money (330.000 US $)

I am obliged to take an action against him for theft. I did not know such people exist in aviation. :*

[Q4NVS]

If I was you (and it was my money), I'll make sure all the paper trails are in order and then impound that aircraft in Chad or wherever. :D

That sounds like the same disregard that these people have when using crew and then not paying them.

Mmm, that sounds like a good business proposal: :oh:
Get a contract, find someone who is "supposedly" paying for the aircraft and then source crew who you never had the intention of paying anyway...

:yuk:

[Tbushpilot]

Yes the papers are ok. The man cannot even dispute the amount of money he got from me. He just plays around with his attorney and tries to retrieve the aircraft by force. And for me not easy as I am far from South Africa and dont know exactly how it works. I found an attorney in Rose bank, he nearly charges me 10.000 US$ a week ! I thought for an obvious theft like that it would be easier. Also this man is (said) very strong in S.A. I asked my attorney "if a poor man in Soweto gives a down payment for a car and after a while the seller does not want to sell the car any longer nor return the money" what happens ? No reply...

Impound the aircraft ? Yes but legally, otherwise he will accuse me thief...

If you want a clue, there are nice antique aircraft in his hangar.

Thank you and best regards

[Shrike200]

And Africans still wonder why nobody wants to invest in Africa.....

[34']

isn't this the same as the 'CHAD WARNING' post below...but the other side of the coin...

[JetPark]

Though one could argue that you should not have concluded a deal like this at what seems to be arms length (where the danger always exists that you get taken for a ride no matter where in the world you are) I would not let this guy get away with it and find yourself a more reasonable lawyer!!! I would also have no hesitation exposing this guy as he will deserve all he gets - he cannot be allowed to take people for a ride - the industry must stick together. I would take this guy down big time :yuk:

[napoleon]

You say you had a secret HOBS you can prove that of course, and have certified readings avilable? The operator says you took USD 330,000.00 off him for a lease purchase and cancelled the contract and refuse to pay him back his deposit. As I know both him and I know your reputation too, Id say you are in for a long ride. BTW dont try to enforce a court order issued in RSA in another country study an atlas and you will see T'chad is not part of South Africa and has never been so. big as you think you are it wont work.

[napoleon]

Mr Tbushpilot this individual is known for this kind of shyster deal KEEP THE AIRCRAFT and dont let it go till you have your money back. Have them arrested for theft of your money if they come to T'chad its that easy. I d like to see the individual concerneds face as he was led into the central prison In N'djamena........he would squeal like the pig he is.

[Tbushpilot]

Thank you Napoleon ! I just found "shyster" on my dictionary, it fits excatly my seller. It is a good idea to impound the aircraft but it must be done legally otherwise I, shall be treated aircraft thief ! Fortunately my attorney tells me I have a "lien" with the aircraft and it will be legally retained with seals. Also those facts will have theft as a legal definition, this is easier in Court.
Well apparently you know my seller quite well ! But I dont wish Ndjamena Central Prison even to my worse ennemy !!!
Anyway all your messages warm up my heart because it is not comfortable to be in such situation.

[ALPHA FLOOR]

J... S..... STRICKS AGAIN-----

SHARK ALERT BE WARNED AGAINST SPRINGLIGHT!!!!

You will be raped and he will enjoy using very little cream.

[napoleon]

The seller is well known in aviation, call any adveritiser in the Air News for example and ask them if they have done or would do business with this schyster. The answer will be a resonding NO @@@@ING WAY. BTW He is under investigation by law enforcement agencies in RSA.

[Tbushpilot]

Well if this nasty operator has disabbled the Hobbs during the night, the pilot must write on the logbook "Hobbs inoperate" and has to log his flight hours, isn't it ? Unless the operator is also the pilot ? Otherwise for which benefit would the pilot take such a risk for his licence and his security (150 extra hours !) ???

About the arrested guys in Ndjamena, are you sure it is that simple, on one side the good white boys who arrive for Law enforcement and on the other side the nasty black policemen who do not respect anything ???

About Interpol be carefull they will not start with your boss

[napoleon]

These scum are are beyond belief to have the audacity to rock up in T'chad to enforce a court order issued in RSA, its laughable they should have been given 21 days in N'djamen central just for trying to take the P**s

[extra300s]

After reading this I must say that I know Tbushpilot and I can varify that he is a good man and speaks the truth!

Tbushpilot, I hope you get your money back from this cockroach, he gives SA operators a bad name!
Regards-Your son(the older one)

PS: Does this guy still own the bigger Falcon jet that fetches the sick people?

[2high2fly]

Napoleon:
Why are you calling the crew that were sent to Chad scum? I believe that they were sent there as messengers of the South African High Court. They were not sent there as mercenaries and they never tried to steal the plane. They waited until the morning and presented their court documents to the Chadian authorities in order to carry out the ruling of the South African courts without causing a diplomatic row. They were just doing their job without ill intentions.

I also believe that the Frenchman who is in Chad has a habit of not paying his bills, and that he has on countless occassions sent double-invoices to the Chadian Government for single flights, modifying the second invoice slightly so that the Chadians end up paying for the same flight twice. In fact, he apparently openly brags about this to various people. I think it would be sensible to label him as "scum" then too. No?

IATA regulations stipulate that should a dispute arise surrounding the lease / purchase agreement on an aircraft, then the plane should be returned to the land where it is registered and the dispute settled in the courts of that country.

Finally, the treatment of the crew that were sent to Chad was reprehensible. The Chadians are in negotiations with the South African Government for a deal with Denel to obtain arms and possibly other defense equipment. But the Chadians offered very poor treatment to the crew as well as the South African Ambassador who assisted the crew while they were in Chad. This treatment has sparked a diplomatic row at the highest levels, all thanks to the on-going deceit of the Frenchman and his side-kick, Bin Laden.

An interesting point to note here: Did you know that the Frenchman was dismissed from the French Special Forces when it was discovered that he was having covert dealings with the ex Apartheid Government back in the day. Perhaps this is why he is afraid to return to France.

It should also be noted that the Frenchman has lost 3 aircraft in the past few years, with loss of life to passengers as well as pilots. He runs a shady and unsafe operation.

Moreover, it's more facinating to note that Tbushpilot is the Frenchman. Sorry to expose you, but the people need to know.
Now refer to the thread Theft in Lanseria as it is the same story with a twist.

So perhaps the rumours are true regarding the Frenchman ... he is a rat and a coward and South African operators should be warned about him. Every dog has it's day ... they say.

[2high2fly]

Refer to comments in CHAD:Warning thread as this is the same story in two seperate threads.
Tbushpilot should not portray himself as the innocent victim here. Ask him why he still owes money for 80hrs for the useage of another BE20 that he leased in 2005 from another operator.

This is the true story behind what happened back then, as was told to me by the crew that were operating on that plane...

The BE20 that was operating in Chad in 2005 developed a problem with the HOBBS meter which stopped working. As this is not an MEL item and the plane could still operate, the crew began logging the flight times in the flight folio from Start to Shut-down. They then consulted the aircraft manuals and realised that the HOBBS meter records the flight times from a squat switch on the right-hand gear from lift-off to landing.
They went back to the operator to explain that they were going to modify the recorded flight times - in effect saving the operator taxi time charges from the owner of the plane.
They dilligently went back and rectified the error in times that were recorded. At MPI time, they told the operator that he should cancel the remaining charters as they had to return the plane to South Africa for the MPI. He then asked them to undertake the flights anyway and not log the flights in the folio.

He still owes the money for the outstanding 80hrs on the plane that was leased in 2005. He says that the pilots "cooked the books" for the owners of the plane. Why would they? They were on a salary at the time so there was no financial incentive to do so.

Tbushpilot is the real :mad: crook!!

[napoleon]

I think if we lined up the people who allege they were crooked by (lets say) your establishment and those who allege to have been crook by the Frenchman I wonder which line would be the longest ??????????????????????????
I think that would be only too obvious.
You are getting a bit carried away with your ramblings on about IATA rules what has IATA got to do with non IATA members? Diplomatic incident???????????? The law in T'chad is just as it is in RSA it can’t be changed as you would apparently like, by diplomats it’s the LAW. South African Govt contracts with T'chad being in jeopardy over a civil matter, please grow up for goodness sake. It’s fascinating you say the "Frenchman" is afraid to return to France then pray tell me how I met him there only 1 year ago? The reference to Osama Bin Laden is puerile in the extreme, once again grow up. I think you should post a copy of the original lease purchase contract so we may see who is who and what is what. If you have got nothing to hide you got nothing to lose either by posting it.

[napoleon]

Why would they cook the books? well birds of a feather flock together my friend.

[2high2fly]

I see that in your ramblings and verbal diarrhea you do not negate the facts that I have laid out.
Birds of a feather, my friend .... bird's of a feather (in your own words).

[napoleon]

I am not a friend of the frenchman no more than I am a friend of yours but I know who I believe in this case. I did warn him about your notoriety and nefarious dealings.

[napoleon]

Post the original contract

[2high2fly]

I think that you have me cofused for someone else. I am not J...S... nor do I work for him. I do, however, have access to a lot of information on the Frenchman and am aware that the clamps are closing on him.
I'll leave at that.
:ok:

[Tbushpilot]

Your story is very jumbled, 2high2fly, and not easy to understand. Even if it was true (it is not) does it justify another operator thiefs us 330.000 $ ?

Can you tell me one detail, one word in my thread which is not absolutely the truth ?

Then if you are obliged to use insults it means your arguments are very poor.

Something else, apparently your boss is quite well known...

[2high2fly]

Again, I have no affiliation to J...S... nor his crowd. But I do have a lot of inside information on you from various sources.
I find it interesting to see that you have not disputed the facts that I have laid out in this thread or the other thread. This is only the tip of the ice-berg regarding your shoddy operation.
Let's leave it at that and see what happens...

[napoleon]

INFORMATION = RUMOUR= ZERO do you have FACTS :ugh: :=

[napoleon]

I see on the other thread you claim you are not part of the J@@N S$$$#s company then why are you taking up the banner of this merchant of skulduggery?

[2high2fly]

Post the receipts of payment to the aircraft owner as well as the flight folio information for the past few months.
Then post the qualifications of the Frenchman's Engineer who has been working on the ZS registered BE20's for the past while without a ZS license.
Let's not pussyfoot around here. Do you want more?

Again, believe it or not, I have no affiliation to Mr S. I just hate seeing other good people suffering from the antics of a person of the likes of the Frenchman. There have been a lot of people that have encountered his pathetic attempt at calling himself a legitimate Operator and suffered the consequences.

It's time that African Aviation fell in line with the standards that govern it.

[Tbushpilot]

2high2fly, you are too nervous and say things which are just very far away from our concern and also from the truth (I dont want to waste time to tell you I come back to France as often as I want and so on)

To come back to your adventure in Chad, you say you came as "South African High Court messengers" but this is stupid, Court Orders are only carried through official chanel. I asked for a delay and obtained it, no more. Court orders are not surprises, they can be defended.

Then if you had security problem with local Police because you arrived in a funny way, it is not my fault. However as this action was the end of a 330.000 dollars theft, you could not expect to be welcome with flowers.

Keep your calm and avoid insulting and slanding, it does not help you.

[Tbushpilot]

So much hatred...

[south coast]

**quote** / 2highflyer

As this is not an MEL item and the plane could still operate

if it is not in the MEL then it means it cannot despatch, if it is allowed to be MEL'd, then it needs to be deferred in the tech log and would have a class level and therefore the number of days it can continue to operate without it.

also, correct me if i am wrong, but i have a feeling it is a legal requirement to have a method of tracking the flight time on an aircraft, an engineer might clarify this.

i have no idea of who the 2 parties are in this story, but if both parties played by the rules there would not be a problem i am sure...

but as per african standards, each is trying to get one over the other, and both end up loosing.

if things are done correctly, legally and by the book you very rarely have such problems.

africa, the dark continent in so many ways.

[napoleon]

2high2fly As far as I know it is the owner that is responsible for ensuring that qualified mechanics work on the aircraft and normally a ground mechanic goes with any aircraft thats away from base for extended periods. We are wating you revalations regarding this subject.

[Tbushpilot]

Napoleon, no need to waste time with 2high2fly, he is not involved in this issue, just buzzing around to try to be important.

[Demon_Hunter]

A very dear friend of mine worked in Chad for over four months on a contract. He was treated well and was never bothered by the operator. He stayed in the house, was looked after and he kept his nose clean, but the stories that he told me were awful. The fact that the house was a transition point for prostitutes and the goings on were despicable. His muslim partner should be ashamed of the alchol and womanising that took place. Now we are not here to discuss the merits of one's lifestyles, but the fact that the monies spent should have gone to paying the bills. When he left, with the promise that his money would be forwarded to him, he had no option but to ferry the plane back for an engine change. More than a year later he still is owed more than 30,000 rand for the salary he never received. Fair, I think not.

Asking to "gippo" the flight folios, flying to areas declared war zones not covered by the insurance, blatantly disregarding the owners request not to do so. All very suspicious. Tbush, pay this man his money, you know who.
Candellight dinners do not pay the bills.

[aacoholic]

Why was there a court order if everything was done perfectly on the side of the chad operator? im sure the law would wager up all aspects? and if they found that the a/c had to be returned, and not be kept in chad, then there is something fishy about operator that he is not telling us, because a/c is still in chad? because if operator was good he would not have problem to go to court?

[2high2fly]

Too right.
Sorry to hear that others can also validate the claims:

1. This Frenchman is an unsafe operator, and has cost lives through his tardy approach at running this N'Djamena based charter company.

2. It has been witnessed that he openly brags about double-invoicing the Chadian Goverment for flights that they chartered. He received payment on both sets of invoices.

3. He sends pilots into "hot zones" without even briefing them on the situation.

4. He has been seen to bribe the Chadian officials after his premises were chained and bolted by the Sherrif of Chad last year, having not paid taxes. He got away with a $5000 bribe.

5. The Frenchman attempted to buy a King Air 200. He was repsonsible for the plane, yet he never obtained the services of a registered ZS engineer. Instead he continued to use an unlicensed engineer.

6. He stopped making payments on this plane, and has now (with the aid of his contacts in N'Djamena) had the aircraft detained in Chad.

7. He has failed to pay the balances outstanding to other operators (80hrs to one operator in Durban) saying that he disagrees with the hours that the pilots logged in the flight folio.

8. He claims to be a Commercial Pilot, yet questions surround his license. He alledgedly has no Instrument Validation.

9. He has failed to pay amounts owing to pilots who were in his employ.

10. He has threatened to throw other pilots in jail for not complying with his demands.

11. He disconnects HOBBS meters and asks his pilots not to log flights so that he can make more money in his back pocket.

This Frenchman is despicable at best. Pilots and aircraft owners alike should be warned not to do business with him. People wanting to use his services for charters should also be warned that his operation is extremely unsafe.
I expect that Tbushpilot and Napoleon will throw in the verbal insults. This is typical, and I have better things to do than argue with them in this forum.
The reason for this posting is warn others to stay away for the time being. To Tbushbaby and Nappyrash, go ahead and hurl the insults. You have what is coming, rest assured.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Darn!

Just when it's getting interesting the popcorn machine breaks down...:(

[napoleon]

accusation after accusation none backed up with facts. As for whores in the crew house sounds to me like ops normal for South Africans who become raging alcholics, colour blind and sex mad north of the Limpopo but that just based on 25 years of hands on observation. Keep the aircraft Mr "T" and when Mr J S" pays give it back if he dont let it rot.:ok: :D :ugh:

[napoleon]

aacoholic wow you dont know much about the law do you! The court reaches a decission based on what it assumes as the facts put before it not the truth or any romantic cr@p like that.

[Tbushpilot]

Give it up Napoleon, in fact it is the same poor fool who screams alone hidden behind his different names. Useless to give him too much attention.

[napoleon]

Hy's 'n poephol en 'n skelm. wie JS?

[Round Engine]

Knowing Napoleon personally, having met "Mr.T" before and having been personally crooked by that despicable as***le Mr. J...S... I support Napoleon and Mr.T wholeheartedly. In fact I would go as far as to say that Mr. J...S... deserves to have his lillywhite backside taken care of in a Chadian prison! Mr. J...S... should be very, very careful - he has more enemies than he thinks.:mad: :mad: :mad: . Not paying people can make them very, very vengeful!

[2high2fly]

Noting that Tbushbaby claims he's from Cameroon when he lives in Chad.
He was born in 1948 ... does that make him 45?
What's he trying to hide?

[Round Engine]

If you check Mr T's profile - I'm not quite sure where your "1948" comes from... it's quite clearly 1961 there. In any event, the fact that he lives in Chad and his profile identifies him as being from Cameroon does nothing to harm his reputation in my opinion - perhaps he has business interests there?

Daardie skelm mater van jou kan sekerlik nie, op albei sy hande en voete tel, die ouens wat hom wil opskroef, selfs net op Lanseria nie, - daar is te veel van hulle.:mad:

I don't understand the way some people on this thread want to be associated with a guy like Mr.S who has crooked so many people. Mentioning his name in most aviation pubs will bring the immediate response - "Oh, that as***le". He reminds me to some degree of the other Mr.S, removed from active duty by a Supermarine Spitfire at Wonderboom, whose wife had a bumper sticker - "F**k the Poor".:oh:

No love lost - both ways, let me assure you. Do not be clutching at straws to be discrediting Mr. T now. I know him as no more than an acquaintance - so for his part I'm fairly objective. But Mr. S deserves the contempt he receives.:*

[2high2fly]

Round Engine

Tbushpilot puts in his profile that he is 45, when he was actually born in 1948. That was the point that I was making. When the two threads opened I exposed him, and the Moderator combined the two threads. Prior to this he was posting comments and put in a false profile thinking that we would not cotton on.

The J...S... thing is not the focus here at all, and I have no qualms with your comments there. T...M... is the issue (the Frenchman).

[Shrike200]

As for whores in the crew house sounds to me like ops normal for South Africans who become raging alcholics, colour blind and sex mad north of the Limpopo but that just based on 25 years of hands on observation.

Try to avoid the wild generalisations will you, hmm? Maybe you've been 'observing' with your eyes closed or something like that....or you have small man syndrome, Mr Napoleon. Or perhaps you'd prefer it if I insulted all of *your* fellow countrymen with one comment, would that be better?

[napoleon]

My eyes have most certainly been wide open. From your comments I guess your wife must read pprune or like most posters you are not in aviation north of the Limpopo...good night

[2high2fly]

Listen Blown-Apart, your comment regarding South Africans is juvenile. Grow up.

[napoleon]

Dont get Childish............this is just a game.....life that is........are you familiar with the term.......Manyapha?

[Shrike200]

My eyes have most certainly been wide open. From your comments I guess your wife must read pprune or like most posters you are not in aviation north of the Limpopo...good night

So, in this post you've just said that I was one of those who became sex mad when north of the Limpopo (those S.A. people who've actually done contract work will know how farcical that idea even sounds), and now have to look good for my wife, and in the previous post, you just insulted every single one of my countrymen in a sweeping generalisation. Then you say 'good night'. Nice going - thats two blatantly personal insults. Here's a tip - next time, avoid doing that, and/or learn some manners. Also, try to avoid making incorrect, or just plain stupid assumptions.

When I was north of the Limpopo it was arrogant, rude little twerps like you I made a point of avoiding. Thank goodness I succeeded for the most part. You're no doubt one of the great contributors making Africa, and it's aviation industry the paradise it is today.

[JetPark]

Gosh, though I have been in (and understand) this industry for a long time, it is clear from my post early in ths thread that I did not know who the real thug or thugs were or are but one thing that remains true of the industry - it knows how to attract :mad: and which I have seen all before. I must therefor retract my statement made earlier as it looks like the buyer of this 200 is no poore innocent! So, the one thing that does remain true in our game is that..."the wheel turns"...right guys?

[napoleon]

I think you are complaining too much............hit a sore spot did I.......i have seen all the loving husbands I need to see. To be avoided by the likes of you is only a benefit for me. Have a nice day out there. I remember one pilot who had a quote "we have all done it but we are not proud of it"

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Did he show you his Noddy badge that entitles him to speak for everybody?

[Shrike200]

I think you are complaining too much............hit a sore spot did I.......i have seen all the loving husbands I need to see. To be avoided by the likes of you is only a benefit for me. Have a nice day out there. I remember one pilot who had a quote "we have all done it but we are not proud of it"

Yes, you hit a sore spot - it was my "I don't like arrogant, insulting f***wits" sore spot.

Or did you think it was fine if only you were allowed to insult everybody?

[napoleon]

No he didnt! I found it a facinating thing to say and when he said it I saw a few squirm I guess it kind of awakens all the guilt.

[madherb]

So........I presume group hugs are not going to happen soon? Maybe everyone should take a step back, have a few suitable beverages according to their preferences, and consider what you really want to say...........without the personal insults. It doesn't make for easy reading, trying to extract the actual rumours from the morass of personal remarks, innuendo and general badmouthing :mad: .
Be nice, life is too short to waste!!!

[JetPark]

Madherb, you are absolutely correct. I also don't like all the slander and abuse but we would be better off in aviation if we didn't have some of the trash that it tends to attract - albeit in very inconsequential numbers. But exist they do. Personally, it'd be a better place if we could rid the industry of them. And boy have I seen a few beauts in my time!!!

[napoleon]

2high2fly beleive that Nappy-rash is the Frenchman's friend who is living in Duoala Wrong old chap I live very very far away from Douala and the Frenchman You know what kind of person I am dont you???????

[Tbushpilot]

Thank you Madherb ! I had to leave this "discussion" under a flood of insults and slanders from one guy who apparently uses several different names. This is probably more revealing about his own problems than a contribution to any debate...

[2high2fly]

Nappy-rash, I thought that you hardly knew the Frenchman? :confused:

Frenchie, hey sorry man. Does the truth hurt that bad? The last thing that I would want is for your reputation to suffer.

Perhaps you should be more concerned as to how I came about all the information that has been revealed in this thread, and asking yourself what the outcome will be. Yes, you can deny everything and there is no harm in trying to protect the perception of others in this way. But you and I know that I never posted anything misleading here. Maybe it's time to evaluate your impact on those around you, although I would hesitate to expect this from you. You've made a right royal mess of things up to now.

[madherb]

We recently optained a court order to retrieve our aircraft from Chad.
The operator there disabled the hobbs and flew our BE20 for 150hours more than the hobbs indicated. We know this thanks to our hidden hobbs.
They damaged the aircraft through a hard landing but still flew it with a broken oleo.
The lease to purchase agreement went south a few months ago when the operator failed to pay his installments.
Although we tried to come to an agreement the operator refused to allow us to fix the aircraft or bring it back to SA.
The bad part is that the CHAD government was of no help and even arrested our crew when they went to retrieve the aircraft with a South African court order.
The aircraft is now stuck there and I understand that Interpol will now get involved.
So, be aware of what you are getting yourself into when sending your aircraft to Chad.
In June 2005 I bought a Be 20 in Lanseria on lease purchase agreement. The deal was 200.000 $ deposit and 36 x 30.000 $ instalments from the aircraft delivery in Chad. I paid 200.000 $ on June 10th and the sellers promised to deliver the aircraft at the end of June with a new painting. I was so enthusiastic that I added 33.000 $ to upgrade the avionics (GNS 430)

In December 2005 the aircraft was not yet ready. The seller demanded me extra 90.000 $ supposed to be Oct. Nov. and Dec. instalments. He said without this extra he would not deliver the aircraft and not return the money. I paid, a little bit upset.

The aircraft was ready in February 2006 (with a poor cheap painting) but the seller said he was not selling the aircraft any more and would not return my money. Then to decrease my rage he said we could go to Chad with a simple lease agreement. Once again, no choice !

We flew 4 months in Chad and the aircraft had to return to South Africa for maintenance and gear failure. But the seller does not want to come back to the lease purchase agreement nor return my money. I understand that if the aircraft returns to South Africa I shall have no aircraft and loose all my money (330.000 US $)

I am obliged to take an action against him for theft. I did not know such people exist in aviation. :*

These appear to be the issues - right? Insults apart, has there been any further progress? Looks like a stand-off, one aircraft in Chad, one in the RSA, who is winning the legal battles?

This is the interesting part - if I want insults and a slagging match, I could phone my ex.........or one of them, at least.

Keep the rumours going, not the insults, and keep us entertained!! :ok: :ok:

[2high2fly]

Giggle-twig, er Madherb:

Yes, this is the same aircraft. The point of the thread is not just the plane, but the fact that the Frenchman needs to be exposed and people need to be warned. The solution would simply be for him to stop operating for all the reasons that already have been posted.

You be the judge.

[2high2fly]

In Tbushbaby's court documented reponse to the High Court ruling, he says that "the pilots who went to Chad overpowered and beat up a security guard in the middle of the night, before attempting to start and steal the plane..."

If this was true, where is the security guard now, and can we please see some evidence of the assault?
Also, please explain how they would attempt to steal a plane that apparently had a completely flat right-side olio?
The pilots did take Nitrogen to Chad in an industrial sized bottle which was left with airport security overnight. The intention had been, after presenting the Chadian authorities with the Court documentation that they would fill the olio with Nitrogen and only then check on the serviceability of the plane.
Obviously this would be done in daylight as the plane was standing in a hangar at the southern end of the airport - where there is no lighting.

Tbush, your comments on your invalid statement, please.
Obviously there won't be one - the coward has been cornered.

[madherb]

Hey this is more like it! Real stuff, not personal vendettas, but actual meaty info from impeccable sources! Roll on dudes............can't wait for more! :D :D

[putt for dough]

Napolean/2high2fly

Come now guys/gals whatever....
Do us all a favour, exchange numbers/email addies whatever then
get a room and then sort out your combined frustrations once
and for all!!!

Your arguments are bloody boring and I think that
most of us have had enough of both of yours constant
slagging of eachother off.

Please guys, for the love of the game!

PEACE OUT

[2high2fly]

Nuf said...

[napoleon]

2high2fly
You ask "where is the security guard now?" pretty dumb question that. :ugh:

[Tbushpilot]

That is the problem of internet forums. It is fantastic to have discussions with thousand people and compare each other's opinions even toughly.
But one miserable guy hidden behind his screen and his nicknames can spoil all the discussion with his insults and slanders. Surprised to read his written garbage on the Net, he gets more and more excited and uncreases everyday his hatred screams, indifferent to the threads advising him to calm down. But we are more in psychiatry than in aviation !
The best attitude with those characters : ignore them. It is what I am doing immediately, I am not even going to return here.

[napoleon]

Most posters dont take in to consideration............................................... .
CENTER]As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.[/CENTER]

[madherb]

Moderators - don't you think this thread has had it's day? It has degenerated into a slagfest, with precious little in the way of useful or even vaguely interesting information. My suggestion - can it.

M

[2high2fly]

I agree. The point has been made.

[4HolerPoler]

Far too juicy to bin this thread now - hey, this is a rumour forum. If you don't like it, don't read it.

Bring it on!

4HP

[napoleon]

Im done I have had my say and the response I got was as I expected from J@@n Sa^@*s henchmen.

[Round Engine]

Aaaw...It can't be over yet!:} Caustic comments aside, a couple of things value (although it took 5 pages to get there) have at least come out of this thread;

1. Doing business in Africa (and South Africa) is not for the naive or trusting types - especially in Aviation. This much we all know. If you get screwed over, it is not as easy to rectify as would be the case elsewhere.

2. Attempting to enforce something like a South African court order outside of the borders of the RSA and especially north of the Zambezi will meet with the kind of :ugh: evident in this thread.

3. Crew behaviour in over-the-Limpopo situations often leaves a lot to be desired (let's not fool ourselves on that one) - we should be (to some degree) conscious of how we appear in the eyes of the rest of the industry. On the whole we are professional people after all.

4. In an argument of this nature, it is good to have a little bit of shouting up and down methinks - the truth gets out pretty quick that way. If anything it's quite entertaining.:ok:

[JetPark]

Hey ...it took me a while but now the penny has finally dropped! Oooh, that man is baaddd news, even I fell victim to this fellow some years back at Lanseria....but I did eventually win !! :ok: There's light at the end of the tunnel guys :D

[2high2fly]

Nappy-rash is quite clearly very naive. For the umpteenth time ... I have no affiliation to J... S...
I typed this very slowly for you Nappy, so that you might get the picture.

[napoleon]

You know you South Africans are poor losers at the best of times but you are even worse winners!

[putt for dough]

You know you South Africans are poor losers at the best of times but you are even worse winners!

Whoaaa that was way out of left field!!
How do you make a generalisation like that? It seems to me
that you are just stirring on this thread. :ugh:

[2high2fly]

Blown-Apart:
Even in defeat you have to throw in an insult for South Africans. At least by submission you acknowledge that what has been said is correct.
Now run along little one.

[Gilksy]

The bad part is that the CHAD government was of no help and even arrested our crew when they went to retrieve the aircraft with a South African court order.

Thats Africa!:hmm:

[napoleon]

Why would the T'chad govt enforce a South African court order? It may as well come from the new planet they have just discovered. Remember your white skin counts for zippo north of the Limpopo if it counts for anything south of it. 2hi2fly I take it from your rantings (based on jack sh@t with not one fact posted) that the name is indicative of your chemicaly enhanced state.

[Icare 68]

I was in Ndjamena short time after the problem and this is what I heard on the main apron :

On August 4th 3 guys arrived in Chad with SA Court order to retrieve the a/c, 2 SA pilots, the owner’s representative, a “last minute” unknown copilot, and a french who is known to be fool. Local operator asked for Court Order to be delivered through legal channel and also a delay to defend his position. He obtained this delay and the problem seemed to be over.

Then local Police arrived, interrogated toughly SA pilots and locked up the french during 6 days. It is a collection of small mistakes which created a big misunderstanding :

Arrived in the middle of the night with ambulance Falcon 20
Without visas (bribed airport police to get the visas)
With a big nitrogen canister local believe to be secret weapon ! (was laying on the apron)
Turned round inside the airport until dawn with the French telling the story all around
Went to hangar and asked a/c to be pulled out as a first step
The french had been deported from Chad in April for problems with Justice.
They rose quickly Police’s attention.

If they had arrived (without this blacklisted french) on Air France with visas, gone calmly to the hotel and taken appointments, they would not have met any problems. Who knows ?

The other rumour is local operator has really been done for big monies on this deal. And he is quite a character not easy to hassle, very upset against the SA seller.

[2high2fly]

By no means at all were the airport authorities bribed for visas. The normal process was followed. Had they been bribed (they were not) then the only person who could have supplied this information was the people who had been bribed. That would be nonsensical.
As for the French pilot that accompanied the 2 pilots, I cannot vouch for him or his prior behaviour in Chad. He only went along as his name was on the Court documentation, stating that he should be present on the ferry flight back to SA as he had previously worked for the Frenchman and flown the plane that should have been removed.
ICARE 68's info is fairly accurate, although I assume that he would have gotten the bit about "the local operator has been done in for big monies on this deal" directly from the Frenchman as it is in fact the Frenchman who stopped paying for the aircraft, as he had done with the previous BE20 for which he still owes money on 80hrs.
ICARE confirms that the Nitrogen bottle was left on the tarmac in front of the terminal building under guard of the security officials. In light of this, again it is clear that the plane could not have been flown out of N'Djamena as the right-side oilo was completely flat and the crew would have required this bottle to pump up the olio. Even if they had wanted to "steal the plane" in the middle of the night, they never had keys to unlock the doors. The Frenchman was in possession of these keys.
Only after the presentation of the Court documents, did the French pilot enquire with the authorities as to whether or not the plane could be moved to the main apron for inspection by the local CAA, who were to arrive in the morning to inspect the plane as well as the Court documentation. He asked for this in the morning, and not in the middle of the night. That was the intention of the enquiry, but obviously the plane could never have been moved without consent from the authorities as there were police and soldiers all over the airport.
The reason for not arriving on Air France with visas was that the minute the High Court order was received, the owner of the BE20 insisted that the crew be flown in immediately to retrieve his plane, for which payments had not been made by the Frenchman. It is standard ops that a visa might be applied for upon arrival at N'Djamena should the crew anticipate a stay that is longer than necessary. In fact, this is how previous crew have obtained their visas when arriving in Chad to work on contract for the Frenchman. He always arranged these visas on arrival.
They also tell me that they opted to stay at the airport overnight and slept in the VIP lounge instead of booking into a hotel. This decision was made as they wanted to remain under the watchful eye of airport security so that no-one could accuse them of doing anything untoward. They were nevertheless accused by the Frenchman of tampering with another aircraft that he leases. Another false accusation and part of the reason why they were arrested and interrogated.
Nevertheless, thanks for the imput.

[napoleon]

The situation created by the jolly old J+&n Sa^*r+ and his crooked dealings with Mr "T" led to all of the above fiasco of deeds and name calling. Who is deemed to have misbehaved after the fact is a matter of perception. I can guarantee that the problem wont be resolved quickly due to the distance between the two parties. We on this forum cannot resolve anything we can only take sides, strut our stuff and offend each other "ad nauseum" (albeit light heartedly ) .

[Icare 68]

May be… However I doubt Chadian authorities could have hassled and locked up 3 foreign pilots without any reasons, just for this french operator’s purposes. Very probably there was something wrong.

I spoke with the french operator’s pilot in Bangui 3 days ago. He said his boss stopped paying the lease just when the aircraft was grounded because of undercarriage problem. That is normal on a simple lease, you cannot lease a grounded aircraft.

The SA seller had changed the lease purchase contract in simple lease contract just before departure from Lanseria to Chad. The French understood this was pure theft but he accepted just to hold the counterpart of his monies.

Honestly, whatever may be the french operator’s reputation, I believe the SA seller tried to steal his money. He uses to do such things as far I understand

[MungoP]

'The frenchman' as he's referred to in these postings has come under a lot of flack... I've no idea how much of this is deserved ...no doubt there are people out there with what they consider genuine grievances..but for what it's worth, in the time I flew for him I was treated well.... paid in excess of the agreed salary, paid on time and received additional 'per-diem' not negotiated in the original terms of employment.
That's all I have to say and I promise anyone who might like to think otherwise, I'm not a close friend of the guy and he has no idea that this posting is being made... His current regular pilot will know this as a fact.

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

paid in excess of the agreed salary, paid on time and received additional 'per-diem' not negotiated in the original terms of employment

I am looking for a sereious operator to work for . May I have his contact?
Sincerely
Riccardo Volante

[MrBernoulli]

Icare 68, please use a larger font?

[Icare 68]

According to these accurate informations there’s just one guy insulting constantly the “frenchman”, using various names. He was SA co-pilot of this cowboys outfit in Ndjamena, but also only one who was not aware of target, retrieve an aircraft by surprise in the framework of major conflict between 2 big sharks. As he was unemployed and also promised a good reward, he rushed into the trap – should have wondered that SA seller was not coming with them ! – Then at destination, no reward, just bad time with Chadian Police ! And now since return back home, SA seller has just been ignoring him. Well, I can understand he is very frustrated but next time he’d better try not to be involved in such a brawl !

[2high2fly]

More "accurate" information from a "reliable" source. :ugh: