Iran Arms Hezbollah with Long Range Mx

[ORAC]

Iran admits it gave Hezbollah missiles to strike all Israel (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/06/wmid206.xml)

An Iranian MP who helped found the Hezbollah terrorist group has confirmed for the first time that Teheran has equipped it with long-range missiles capable of hitting "any target in Israel".

In a potentially ominous development that could lead to a further escalation of the conflict, the theocratic regime also gave implicit authorisation for the Lebanese guerilla group to strike Tel Aviv with the Zelzal-2 missiles, manufactured in Teheran.

"There are countries that have weapons but don't have the courage to use them," said Ali Akbar Mohtashemi-Pur, Iran's former ambassador to Damascus, who holds a government-appointed post as secretary-general to the Palestinian uprising (intifada) conference..........

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran has promised unstinting support for Hezbollah. "The main solution is for the elimination of the Zionist regime," he said last week.

[El Grifo]

This being the case (and I have no doubt that it is) it kinda questions the logic of the Israeli push, to create a small buffer zone in South Lebanon and the enormous loss of civilian lives associated with that push. :ugh:

[SASless]

"There are countries that have weapons but don't have the courage to use them," said Ali Akbar Mohtashemi-Pur, Iran's former ambassador to Damascus, who holds a government-appointed post as secretary-general to the Palestinian uprising (intifada) conference..........

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran has promised unstinting support for Hezbollah. "The main solution is for the elimination of the Zionist regime," he said last week.



Me thinks these Turds are right in the concept....just named the wrong countries!

If we think back to the last World War....we waged all out war to include dropping two Nukes.

I would suggest it is time to face reality and gear up for another confrontation with Evil.

Perhaps we should demonstrate what long range missiles are all about.

The next time the little Creep gets on his soapbox in Tehran....drop one on his head and follow it up with a leaflet drop advertising peace and politics as the way to the future and remind folks that talk of war can be unhealthy.

[757manipulator]

Sorry to be stating the obvious but, where have you guys been? This must be the worst kept secret in the Mid-east since the Israeli's were denying any nukes at Demona:=

President Ijamapyjamabad has ranted and raved about vapourising Israel since he got into office, I don't understand how you think him saying in public what has been common knowledge will change anything on the ground vis a vee cause an escalation, more likely its going to put far more pressure on Syria to come clean as it faces pressure from the EU, and stands to lose any bargaining power it has left with the west to be seen as a more moderate voice.
IMHO these comments will help Ijamapyjamabad internally, but they will isolate Iran even further, perhaps to the point where he may have a revolution on his hands from the increasing numbers of well educated liberal Iranians.

Just my thoughts.

[The Helpful Stacker]

I think its disgusting.

Thank God that no country with a large weapons industry is supplying the Israelis with weapons otherwise this thing could drag on for ages.:rolleyes:

[SASless]

Stacks,

Yer daddy wouldn't say that. 'Course it wasn't Israel in his time was it?

[Dogfish]

Oh THS you do tease so, not only is a country with a large weapons industry supplying Israel but the 51st state (GB) is allowing them to refuel their bomb laden planes on the way. Tony the poodle was heard to say ''woof woof yes George woof woof'' when asked to comment. :=

[con-pilot]

Are people foolish enough to believe that if the United States stoped giving Israel weapons to defend itself that Hellbollah would stop attacking.

Does the term "rose tinted glasses" mean anything to you?:ugh:

[GreenKnight121]

If the US "stopped arming Israel", then the world would see the Iranians/Hezbollah/Hamas complete Adolph Hitler's dream... at least wherever they have influence!

While some in the UK, US, etc. (including self-described liberals and ultra-conservatives) would cheer this, it would mean that all of the so-widely-proclaimed BS about "Human Rights" and "we must prevent Genocide" is just the hot air that it is in actuality!

Most of those who shout those slogans for the cameras apply them very selectively in private, and their hypocrisy sickens me!

If you feel that the Nazi program of Jewish extermination was evil in Germany, then you must hold the same view of Muslim extermination of Jews in Israel/Palastine/(whatever you want to call it), or you are a hypocrit!

[FJJP]

Isn't it amazing the short memories that some people have?

I don't seem to remember the shouts of indignation when the US helped us during the Falklands war...

[RoyHudd]

Really nothing new here. Israel/Jews under the cosh again, and witless liberal propaganda supports their demise. (Even though it means supporting the abhorrent Arab Islamists).

It won't end soon. Media will see to that....it is a great story! Sod the people dying, military or civil, they are only props on the media platform. The show must go on.:D

[maxburner]

Let's see:

Hezbollah fire hundreds of rockets a year into Israel, all aimed at civilian centres, all designed to kill civilians.

Israel targets Hezbollah. Civilians die because Hezbollah hide amongst schools, apartment blocks and houses.

Hezbollah and their Iranian backers have sworn to drive the Israeli nation into the sea.

Hezbollah kidnapped several Israeli soldiers to provoke this crisis.

Hezbollah are armed and financed by Iran. Israel have their own backers.

Israel is fighting a war of survival.

Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. The people they are fighting are Islamic fascists.

I know which side I back in this nasty war.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

Isn't it amazing the short memories that some people have?

I don't seem to remember the shouts of indignation when the US helped us during the Falklands war...

Apart from letting us buy the latest Mark of the AIM9 and giving us back the use of ASI, I think I must have missed something significant. Was Jeane Kirkpatrick a figment of my imagination?

[civobs]

'Hezbollah kidnapped several Israeli soldiers to provoke this crisis.'

killing three others at the same time, hizbollah want samir qantar (kuntar) and two others back. anything else going on around those parts? do we still have gunboats?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/5211930.stm

[SASless]

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/06.07.25.CowardlyBlend-X.gif

[Reach]

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000023.html

More wisdom from cox and forkum.

[galaxy flyer]

Well said, SASless! :ok:

[Wiley]

I have a terrible feeling that this is going to end badly for Israel - and therefore for the West - unless someone is willing to look reality in the face and stop this utterly senseless "war by degrees"- a repeat of the US debacle in Vietnam.

Hezbollah doesn't have to win to win this fight - it just has to survive, even as a pale, almost toothless shadow of former itself. The operative word being "almost” toothless. If - when - the UN has its way, as surely it will, and a ceasefire is called, all Hezbollah will require to have 'won' is to have one last rocket it can launch into Israel and one senior member to sit in front of a videocam and spout hatred on Al Jazeera - and the 'Arab Street' will do its usual and proclaim the whole sorry episode as an Arab victory. And in this case, they’ll be right.

Sadly, unless something quite radical is done, I suspect there will be far more than one rocket and one senior Hezbollah spokesman left with the UN has its way.

My prediction is a sad one: I predict that in ten years time, (and maybe sooner), people in the West are going to be saying: "Why in the world didn't the Western leaders of the day stop Hezbollah (read 'Iran') when it was still possible?"

I believe the man we should be blaming is Jimmy **** Carter. His utterly wet response to the kidnapping of the Tehran embassy staff back in 1979 set this whole sorry mess in motion, not helped years later by Bill Clinton's ducking and running any time the US military suffered a few casualties. The message the actions of both these men sent might have been missed by the vast majority in the West. It was not missed by the likes of OBL and President Alphabet in Iran.

If (I fear 'when') Hezbollah survives this war, I fear the whole dynamic of the current world balance will tilt - for Westerners, alarmingly in the wrong direction against what we all hold dear. These people don't simply want to be left alone in their 14th Century world - they want to destroy our way of life completely and impose their own on us.

In their defence, I suspect that as they sit around sipping their coffees and sucking on their sheeshas, they see Mr Bush's insistence on imposing Democracy on Iraq and Afghanistan as the West wanting to destroy their way of life and impose our way on life on them.

For students of history, the Israelis see want’s happening in Lebanon as a ‘1939 Poland’ moment, while most people in the West are seeing it a ‘1938 Czechoslovakia’ one, (where we’ll have Kofi Annan waving the ‘peace in our time’ scrap of paper instead of Neville Chamberlain). Sadly, for most of the leadership of Western Europe, (particularly France), it will always be a ‘1938 Czechoslovakia’ moment, whatever happens.

[Andu]

This current fight is make or break for the Iranians too, and they know it, hence the amazing amount of money someone (I suspect the Iranian Government) is spending on equipping and financing Hizbollah. It can’t be cheap to have supplied enough hardware to allow sending off 100+ rockets a day into Israel, and I suspect we’ve going to see a few of the more sophisticated, longer range ones brought out over the next few days, as they up the ante. The brand new Russian anti tank missiles won’t have come cheap either. They must know that if Hizboolah (=they) lose this, their influence will slip considerably, maybe fatally for the Islamic Revolution that could have been stopped in its tracks back in 1979 if the Americans hadn’t pussy-footed around over the US embassy hostages.

When you see the problems the Russians are having with their own Muslim revolutionaries in Chechnya, you have to ask yourself what are thinking supplying such cutting-edge stuff to Iran and Syria. But if course, the mighty dollar/rouble has always spoken louder than ideology, (and of course, liberal apologists will say these weapons are just materializing magically in Lebanon). .

As has been mentioned above, it seems to me the Iranians have learnt quite a few lessons from what the US has and hasn’t done over the last 20 years. For instance, in Lebanon with Hizboolah, they’ve very successfully adopted the very same system the Americans used so effectively against the Russians in Afghanistan, but have the added advantage of being co-religionists with the Shiites of Lebanon and therefore they’re able to say a lot more convincingly that they have the interests of the Lebanese at heart than the Americans were to the Afghans.

Very few educated Lebanese in the cities want to see Lebanon become Iran West. (Unfortunately, the same can’t be said for many of the Lebanese rural population, which includes many of those ‘Australians’ we see being evacuated over the last day or two at Australian taxpayers’ expense.) However, but spending an inordinate amount of money on welfare as well as weapons, Hizbollah are gathering in quite a few, if not exactly converts, then sympathizers.

[ORAC]

The phrase the "Sia Arc", was not invented by Blair, or even Bush. It was first used by king Abdullah and then by the King of saudi Arabia and other Sunni leaders. The "main in the arab high street" might now have respect for hezbollah, but they and their backers are scaring the Sunni intelligentsia ****less. This is by an Egyptian born Middle East specialist, who actually thinks Israel should declare war on Syria as the only way to stop their advance....

War of a Thousand Paper Cuts Will Destroy Israel (http://www.nysun.com/article/37427) by Youssef M. Ibrahim (http://www.fandy.us/experts/youssef-ibrahim.html)

[SASless]

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/images/unifil.jpg

[Grandpa]

I remember reading a study by a well documented Middle-East analyst.

His conclusion: the biggest danger in the area is an alliance between extreme fundamentalism, whichever obedience (Shia, Sunni) and the mass of poor uneducated people living in dictatorships where no right is allowed to them....

Thanks to Bush, Blair and Israeli military establishment, we can see this alliance is building itself, and if this policy of blunders and massacre goes on sometimes they will succed : a united front of Muslims led by the most dangerous and clever leaders, backed by an unanimous crowd of millions.........and no weapon will protect US allies there and then.

Better use your brain, and have an intelligent strategy than pouring undiscriminate bombings around which make only more ennemies in the future!

[BenThere]

Gramps, the only purely indiscriminate bombing was done by Hezbollah.

But I agree that some of the dictatorships need to go.

[Roadtrip]

Several points of hard truth:

1. Hezbollah and many other Islamic terrorist and political organizations hold extermination of Israel and Jews and the world-domination of islam as their primary mission . . . . by their own open and public statements. They are proud and dedicated of this purpose. The Iranians mean what they say. If they develope a nuclear weapons and are able to deliver it, they will attack Israel. The consequences of this is not in their cross-check. These are single-minded fanatics.

2. Like the Nazis and Japanese during the 1930s, deluding oneself that the Iranians, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc, "don't really mean" what they say is stupid and naive in the extreme, or "ignoring" is done for other nefarious purposes, like tacit support for their cause.

3. Pretending that the leadership of Iran and some Arabic countries don't represent the "street" is also dangerously naive, intellectually dishonest, or an outright misrepresentation.

4. A recent poll in the UK showed that a substancial majority of muslims in the UK say they don't believe that muslims were involved in the World Trade Center atrocities. The truth is they KNOW that muslims committed the crimes, but are towing the lies that they are told to "believe." Those that want to live in truth are threatened and intimidated by the radial-majority thugs in their community mosques.

5. Muslim immigrants to western countries contribute little or nothing to the countries that host them. Very rarely will you find them serving the common good, such as military service. They are a very closed society.

6. The moderate islamic countries AND moderate muslim individually themselves have been totally irresponsible or impotent in permitting the religious fanatics from infecting muslim youth with hatred, blind obedience, and just plain stupidity.

[SASless]

Grandpa,

As you so rightly state.....



I remember reading a study by a well documented Middle-East analyst.

His conclusion: the biggest danger in the area is an alliance between extreme fundamentalism, whichever obedience (Shia, Sunni) and the mass of poor uneducated people living in dictatorships where no right is allowed to them....

How many Islamic states have you just described?

Under Saddam, Iraq would qualify....but not now....after all the Purple Fingers prove the individual has a say in the government now.

[Sunfish]

I'm afraid some of you have very short memories.

There was this thing called a peace deal between the Israelis and the Palestinians. The right wing israelis assassinated the Prime Minister that negotiated it with Arafat and then welched on the deal.

Then Sharon famously tramped around the dome of the rock after being warned that this would cause rioting.

We have since seen a continuously escalating procession of tit for tat violence aided and abetted by some of the worst diplomatic decisions ever made by all countries involved, these included the failure of the U.S. to engage with a democratically elected Hamas government and talk some sense into them.

It may have escaped your attention, but the Israelis have been pounding the cr*p out of Gaza and Hamas for some months and Hezbollah's original attacks on Israel were in support of Hamas.

Israel then responded in a totally disproportionate manner against the State of Lebanon which was in no position to force Hezbollah to disarm.

In effect Israel was waging a proxy war against Iran since they back Hezbollah. As for Israel "fighting for its existence' they always say this while they are kicking in the heads of defencelss Arabs - Goliath pretending to be David. How the heck can any country crush israel since it is armed with nuclear weapons?

Now of course this is seen as a good thing by George Bush, since his administration is praying that Iran will react and provide a casus belli. War with Iran would be good because its more "creative chaos' leading to the birth of Condi Rices "New Middle East" and incidently helping Republicans hold on to their seats at the November elections. Of course the "New Middle East" will sell its oil to America, which is all they really care about anyway.

Now you may think I'm cynical, but I fear for the lives of every one of the 130,000+ troops in Iraq if the balloon goes up in Iran. I also think that if Iran hasn't got a nuclear weapons program now, it will have one ten microseconds after the first American bombs fall.

I also don't like the idea of fighting enraged muslims in a never ending and unwinnable and self defeating "war on terror", although I'm sure it will give many of you guys wonderful opportunities for promotion as well as the satisfaction of using all that expensive kit and training to drop bombs everywhere.

Frankly Israel, Hamas and hezbollah deserve each other. Perhaps now that Israel has a bloody nose at the hands of Hezbollah we could hope that perhaps now it will consider being more conciliatory towards the Palestinians, although I'm not holding my breath. My preferred solution is to build a wall around this chunk of the Middle east and leave them to it so we can all get on with the rest of our lives.

I also expect that since Iran has not responded to Israel's less than subtle invitation to join it in general mayhem, an international incident will now be manufactured to justify the desired result.

[SASless]

Now of course this is seen as a good thing by George Bush, since his administration is praying that Iran will react and provide a casus belli. War with Iran would be good because its more "creative chaos' leading to the birth of Condi Rices "New Middle East" and incidently helping Republicans hold on to their seats at the November elections. Of course the "New Middle East" will sell its oil to America, which is all they really care about anyway.

Sunfish,

Just what are we supposed to fight the Iranians with? Perhaps you have not been keeping up with the readiness levels of the US military units not engaged in the Iraqi operations.

The last thing we want is war with Iran. The damage to our economy alone argues against it. We do not have the military capability to cope with both Iraq and Iran simultaneously unless we revert to a war economy, mobilzie all of the reserves, enact conscription, fund a buildup of the military, pull all of the ships out of mothballs, and somewhere in there, train the troops for combat. Never mind having one other small handicap.....convincing the American people all that is necessary.

That being said....it is closer to the Med by road than it is to Kuwait...if one goes via Damascus.

[FJJP]

I'm very afraid that this is all going to end in tears, and, unfortunately, with a mushroom cloud or two.

It is only a matter of time before some radical group gets enough nuke material to create a bucket of sunshine. It doesn't take much and there need be no sophistication in triggering such a device - suicide bombers are ten-a-penny in that part of the world.

Just one sniff of this scenario and Israel will create a number of glass-filled craters...

[Sunfish]

Sasless, I agree that we do not have the capacity to fight a ground war in Iran, but that does not seem to have blunted the neoconservatives opinion that Iran needs a good bombing.

My concern of course is that there re going to be Iranians left alive after a good bombing that are going to be very angry indeed, not to mention the rest of the muslim world.

From the little I have read, it is apparently the U.S. airforce that is pushing the "can-do" Airpower-can-do-everything line against the Army (which has to keep Iraq under some semblance of control) and the U.S. Navy (which has to keep the Straits of Hormuz open).


I suppose I could get really paranoid and suggest that maybe Bush loves his role as a 'war president' so much that he would entertain the bombing idea. Then of course America has resuscitated its draft boards. There are those that believe conscription and a good dose of military discipline will solve Americas problems. All the whiny liberals can be locked up for sedition as well.

P.S. Of course nothing can happen until Blair comes back from holidays.

[El Grifo]

Then Sharon famously tramped around the dome of the rock after being warned that this would cause rioting.

Shaky ground Sunfish, Shaky ground.

Last time I dared to suggest this, I was severely rebuked by the "High Heid Yin"

Typical of the bleeding heart liberal to accuse Sharon of visiting the Temple Mount as the trigger for the intefada. A suitable hook for Arafat to hang his excuse for the incitement to martyrdom for the suicide bombers.There is NO EXCUSE for sending suicide bombers to murder innocent civilians. You are the bigot for somehow trying to justify the actions of indoctrinated suicide bombers who believe that they are going to be rewarded for their murderous actions in their afterlife. Once again you try to make some sort of excuse for their actions.


And that was the polite part :}

Lets wait and see if he is still in denial :ok:

[SASless]

Sunfish,

Do you think Iran obtaining a nuclear weapon(s) is in anyway a benefit to the chances of peace in the Middle East? Should we not recall the years leadiing up to the start of the last World War and consider the current situation in light of what we know from the past?

Appeasement does not work. It only kicks the can a bit further down the road and allows the problem to grow in size and complexity.

Where do we draw the line? What do we do if the Iranians do in fact obtain nuclear weapons?

[TheInquisitor]

Then Sharon famously tramped around the dome of the rock after being warned that this would cause rioting.
Do you feel that a person merely having the audacity to visit a certain place (whatever significance that place holds) is justification to spark several years of violence? Your posts suggests that it is.

[El Grifo]

I think it was the nature of his armed, booted, ill-advised and militarily accompanied visit that did the damage. Sort the order out any way you wish.

Added to which, he certainly pissed off someone, because the current intifada started right after his visit.

Coincidence or what ?

[Sunfish]

My dear Sasless, there is a considerable difference between triggering a nuclear explosion and "weaponising" a lump or two of uranium as I'm sure you know.

[SASless]

Sunfish,

What was that feller's name....the one that got his picture taken standing there with a piece of paper held high proclaiming Peace had been achieved with that Hitler guy?

What you just said is the exact same mindset personified anew and proves my point.

The next step would be....well it is only a few Nukes and they really won't use them, right?

At some point....the truth would surface at the cost of millions of lives.

Far better we fight them with conventional weapons than ever have an exchange of nuclear weapons.

[TheInquisitor]

I think it was the nature of his armed, booted, ill-advised and militarily accompanied visit that did the damage. Sort the order out any way you wish.

Added to which, he certainly pissed off someone, because the current intifada started right after his visit.

Coincidence or what ?
Ah, that explains it then. Merely visiting a location, whilst wearing jackboots, carrying a gun and goosestepping around, whilst your (entirely essential) personal protection squad looks on, IS justification for instigating mass murder.

Silly me, my mistake.

[Grandpa]

An Iranian nuke would be as bad as the allready existing Israel ones.

If my memory is still good, I remember, Israel and Egypt came to peace agreement after decades of aggressivness because both parties came to the conclusion they could badly harm themselve and it was time for negociation.

Maybe an Iranian nuke could convince Israel hawks the balance of threats is turning and it is time to negociate with Palestine in order to have one ennemy less, and cut the grass under fundamentalist feet?

[ORAC]

An Iranian nuke would be as bad as the allready existing Israel ones.
Remind, which nation has Israel claimed it intends to erase from the face of the earth.......