Superb B1900 Video in Africa!!!

[JanetFlight]

Just look at it until the very end:) »»»
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbzwqIxt1q8 :D
Greeeaaattttt;)

[beckers]

Big up to the :mad: crew for barrel rolling an aircraft that is not approved for such a manoeuvre and it is only limited to 60 degrees max bank. Either crew not aware of aircraft limitations or just don't care for them.:=
I hope I never have the misfortune of flying that aircraft. It will be the crew that are flying that heap in a few thousand hours time through bad weather that will pay the price.
I have heard that a 1900 that has been barrel rolled starts to show when the fairing at the base of the tail starts to pull away from the tail. The aircraft generaly has a very light fuselage and I doubt it can withstand that sort of abuse for long.
I don't think that is a video to be proud of!

[Shrike200]

Well, I'm glad I'm not flying 1900's anymore....

Nice video, but I'm happy not to have made it.

[FCS Explorer]

isn't a barrel roll a 1G manouver? so, if executed properly the a/c doesn't know it's upside down and doesn't suffer more G's than in straight and level flight??:rolleyes:

[Full of Foehn]

isn't a barrel roll a 1G manouver? so, if executed properly the a/c doesn't know it's upside down and doesn't suffer more G's than in straight and level flight??:rolleyes:
I was thinking the same thing.

[Treetopflyer]

I have heard that a 1900 that has been barrel rolled starts to show when the fairing at the base of the tail starts to pull away from the tail. The aircraft generaly has a very light fuselage and I doubt it can withstand that sort of abuse for long.

BUNCH OF B*LLOCKS... :ugh:

You "heard"... I see... Well, tell me how "the fairing at the base of the tail starts to pull away from the tail" with a 1G maneuver that does not involve any sideslip??? And what impact does it have on the fuselage??? Can you please enlighten us with a bit of an explanation, or is the word you heard good enough for us??? :mad: :ouch:

Thanx

TTF

[Woof etc]

Barrel rolls are all very good, IF you know what you are doing and you don't lose the aircraft in the manouvre. A certain 200 that got severely bent in, uhem, turbulence on a dead leg comes to mind..... One of the ex Rossair 1900s was rather bent with visibly wrinkled skins, widely suspected to be caused by a similar manouvre gone wrong.

The prototype Boeing 707 was rolled over Chicago - aaah yes, those were the days. Needless to say the test pilot was called in for cup of tea and a chat. But he knew what he was doing and trained in aerobatics.

[6-String]

Lovely video. Looks like they had fun. Wish I was there. :ok:

[Formally Known As]

Agree with Woof etc and beckers.

Just like to add, the pilot does not seem to be able to keep the A/C in the centre of the strip i.e., cant "nail the centre line" on t/o and landing, which shows he or she is not in full controll of the A/C.

Suggestion they get the basics right, leave the aero's to the current airshow pilots and approved A/C and the low flying to the current AG pilots.

I wonder if the pilot had the brains to think what might happen in the case of a bird strike? The results could well have been fatal.

Don't do it as it just ain't worth it.

[6-String]

... what might happen in the case of a bird strike? The results could well have been...

Once I forgot to put sugar in my coffee. Wow, that was close!

Anyone for another bull****.. I mean biscuit? :}

[Ray Darr]

...Boeing 707 was rolled over Chicago - aaah yes, those were the days. Needless to say the test pilot was called in for cup of tea and a chat...

Captain Alvin "Tex" Johnston and Co-Captain James Gannett performed TWO perfect rolls in a Boeing Dash 80 over SEATTLE (at the "Seafair" Festival), watched by some 200,000 people, in 1955.

By the way...James passed away last month, at a ripe old age. RIP.

When Tex was asked the next work-day by the-then Boeing President just what the hell he was doing, he answered "Sellin' airplanes, sir!"

It must have been one heck of a sight to see in person! ...here is the video of it (long download...be warned):

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/707%20Roll.mpg
Cheers,
~ R.D.

[DHC8-FO]

For the 1900 video, safe or not, it was a dang cool video. If your a pilot and like flying airplanes, how could you not get a little excited watching them do that? Nice video.

I think ive got a ferry flight today, I wonder if I can roll my Dash-8? Anyone ever tried it? Ill bring my video camera along, just in case.

[FCS Explorer]

For the 1900 video, safe or not, it was a dang cool video. If your a pilot and like flying airplanes, how could you not get a little excited watching them do that? Nice video.
I think ive got a ferry flight today, I wonder if I can roll my Dash-8? Anyone ever tried it? Ill bring my video camera along, just in case.

true words, man. if the hottest piece of action you can get on your job is a visual with a 3NM final then a barrel roll is dream stuff. sometimes i wonder if i could leave FL370 top gun style: rolling in to some 120° of bank and .....:{

[DHC8-FO]

true words, man. if the hottest piece of action you can get on your job is a visual with a 3NM final then a barrel roll is dream stuff. sometimes i wonder if i could leave FL370 top gun style: rolling in to some 120° of bank and .....:{


Theres no reason why you couldnt do that, the question comes can you recover in time? Yea the most exciting our job gets here is flying into some shorter airports on occassion, if we get bored, we just turn on the radar and fly into the red stuff, makes it a little more exciting on those slow days. Ha. You can have some fun on a dash-8-200, empty, ferry flight. Almost makes us feel like were flying a jet for a few minutes.

[JG1]

Maybe the right hand side of the runway was to be avoided for some reason?

You can see the windscreen getting more and more dirty the more bugs are smashed...lucky one wasn't a vulture:uhoh:

Aeros into the sun? Antonio...:=

[FCS Explorer]

recovering?
a) the airplane - should be possible.
b) career in commercial aviation - ???

[BUSHJEPPY]

Recommended reading:

Article on "cowboy pilots" in the Business & Commercial Aviation Magazine June 2006 issue.

This sort of fun flying killed more than one cowboy :uhoh:

[DHC8-FO]

recovering?
a) the airplane - should be possible.
b) career in commercial aviation - ???

Yea if you start at FL370 recovering shouldnt be a problem, but your right about the rest of your tenure at that employer. Save if for your retirerment flight, what can they do to you then? Fire you? If your wife is wealthy, might be worth it.

[B200Drvr]

The barrel role is aerobatic, the B1900 is not!! irrespective of the G's pulled, that aircraft should not be rolled, it was not designed no certified for it, when will people learn??

[FCS Explorer]

The barrel role is aerobatic, the B1900 is not!! irrespective of the G's pulled, that aircraft should not be rolled, it was not designed no certified for it, when will people learn??

ok,ok, but can you give a sensible explanation why "normal 1G" is different from "barrel roll 1G"??:p

[CJ750]

Excuse the ignorance but how do you get the video of the B1900 to play:eek: :O

[B200Drvr]

The G's are not my point. My point is that the aeroplane was not designed for aerobatics, what speed was the role done at? and how did the clever pilot calculate that speed, all aerobatic aeroplanes have design speeds for rolls, barrel rolls, loops etc. and I doubt very much whether a guy, dumb enough to roll a 1900 would be a disciplined aerobatics pilot. MHO

[RICCARDOVOLANTE]

Roll with the Beech 1900 ???.....and ??? what is the point on doing that ???..
Put it on your CV and you will see how many airline company will hire such pilot.
Sincerely
Riccardovolante

[JanetFlight]

Here is the Lil' Bird:ok:

Two videos and a short Intro of Pilot»»»

http://www.aerodrome-gruyere.ch/blogs/index.php?m=200603

Great:D

[oompilot]

The fact that there are ‘pilots’ arguing for the cause is concerning. Perhaps the age of professional pilots should be raised somewhat? Read the POH. What ever you hot shots might be thinking those limitations were put there for a reason by people more qualified than most on this forum. Airmanship boys, where’s it gone? Airpersonship is perhaps more correct today but that’s another topic!

[6-String]

Damn, I did it again; I nearly fell out of bed! Thank goodness there was a wall on that side! :}

[beckers]

Although a PERFECTLY executed barrel roll might be at 1G. The point is that the aircraft was not designed to do such things.

Since we are operating outside of the design limitations of the aircraft what is the difference to overloading by 2000lbs or flying well past the barbers pole?

The other aspect is the fact that it is a 1900D. I doubt the EFIS gyro's were designed for inverted flight. The video doesn't show the crew fast erecting all their gyro's after the roll.

[putt for dough]

Gotta say that this is concerning.

Who says that, that roll we saw was executed at 1g? :yuk:
Considering the oke didn't roll out correctly it probably
wasn't and hence he is new in rolling aeries with no
experience at all in aerobatics.

Do whatever aeros you want, just don't put me in
the aerie with ya :ok:

[Treetopflyer]

The fact that there are ‘pilots’ arguing for the cause is concerning.

The fact that there are 'pilots' totally unable to explain the technical reasons behind their aircraft limitations is much more concerning to me... :{

Great videos...:ok: :ok: :E

Edited to add: btw, all gyros on the 1900D are solid-state (i.e. no moving part), except for the standby horizon.

[FCS Explorer]

:\ of course we "barrel-roll supporters" understand that aerials are not to be done in an plane not made for this.
but we are arguing why 1G is different from 1G. gyros left aside.

do you guys lean sideways when making a turn with your bicycles? i'm just not sure if the frame is made to take G's from the side....!

[rattex4U]

ok,ok, but can you give a sensible explanation why "normal 1G" is different from "barrel roll 1G"??:p

Sure you a professional pilot FCS Exp? The diff between a normal 1G turn/pull up and a 1G barrel roll, mmmh there r so many that come to mind how much can go wrong in a turn or pull up, thats normal procedures, a barrel roll on the other hand uhm it takes normal logic that its not a even situation and finding yourself in a uneven situation upside down yah well you figure out the rest.........................:=

Normal professional pilots r not trained for that, unlike you cowboys who bend the wings and then put other pilots life in danger when they fly the aeroplanes after you...........:sad:

You a commercial pilot, act like one!!!!

[barryt]

Unless the pilot was Bob Hoover, I reckon the chances of that aircraft being bent now are pretty high.:=

[Q4NVS]

I agree, no matter who did it, I would not like to be the next to fly the bird (ever...)

Just another question, by the looks of the video, the aircraft was also probably not higher than about 2000ft agl when the maneouvre was performed..:yuk:

Another question (for those who are supporting this):
Do you guys also do Full Spins with the 1900 and if not, why not?

The POH states that it is also not certified for this (as is the Barrel Roll).

But hey, if I try hard to think back at basic aero'd, the structural loading on the airframe during the spin is also very little, as the aircraft is not even producing proper Lift. So, if you do a gently pull out of the dive, would you spin it?

I think not...:zzz:

[FCS Explorer]

you guys just don't get it.:ugh:
no one is saying "do aerobatics in an aircraft not certified"

i'm just saying:" if the 1G vector is going out along the z-axis, does it matter where the blue and brown on the horizon is?"

it's a simple question. and since u don't get it, i wonder who the pro is.
besides: stopping a spin takes high load on the rudder. now THATS putting stress on the airframe.

[barryt]

I think you've got a point there. But who's to say that a perfect 1G was pulled all around with no lateral movement. What are the chances? Bob Hoover - maybe. You and the rest of the planet - highly unlikely.

It was a stupid thing to do, and all arguments trying to support it are just plain brainless. Period.

Whoever did that must have rocks in their head and wooden balls - pretty brainless thing to do in my opinion, and the pilot should be given a broomstick to fly in future rather...:\

[Mercenary Pilot]

Unless the pilot was Bob Hoover, I reckon the chances of that aircraft being bent now are pretty high

Funny you should say that, the "Beech Boyz" have done another video where the F/O pours a drink as the Skipper does the roll (hence 1G manoeuvre, Bob Hoover styli). It’s on the internet but seeing as they've already been hung drawn a quartered here, I'll let those who are interested find it themselves. :cool:

Safety factors aside, it’s a great flying video and I would love the opportunity to fly turboprops in Africa. :ok:

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Technically, a barrel roll is a 1G maneouvre.

A straight roll, such as that demonstrated on the clip on the other hand....

[C4]

Thank you Twotter,
It's only taken 4 pages for these "experts" to debate something they know seemingly nothing about... Straight and barrel rolls are two very different manoeuvers...

[Ace Man]

So Tex and Bob did it while selling planes - both accomplished pilots and in the employ of the manufacturor - a bit of manufacturor licence so to say. The disturbing bit for me would be is pilots and planes lost. Low level over the zambezi into power lines/ low level into the Vaal/ and a PA34 doing a barrel roll south of Rand - 3 Planes , at least six dead - sends shivers down my spine! Had this been filmed for a movie as may have been intended under the guidences and aprovals ET AL:ok:

[GUSTO]

Makaya don't try that with the F*KKER your chief pilot might not like it ...:=

[6-String]

I have a pertinent suggestion for you all, and it is a great one to consider EVERY time that you become engrossed in a PPRUNE thread that requires you to air your testosterone-filled opinions: Why don't we have a "Dick Measuring Contest?" Let's all haul our BIG-BOYS out, lay them on the measuring slab, and see who has the biggest one? It'd surely be more fun than the self-righteous bull****ters telling the fun-filled danger-tossers why there's no fun in risk! :ok:

[SKYTORT]

Listen Dude,

I have not read your posts here and don't intend to before saying what I am about to say. The point I'm trying to make is I don't know if you're a wa:mad: er or not, but here goes:

I think your suggestion is bad taste, but I think we can all see the point you are trying to make, and I agree with it!!!

I am currently a P1 on the 1900, and I don't think I could ever execute such a manoeuvre, but I am particularly interested in how many of the commentators here are actually aerobatic pilots, and more important, who is suitably qualified to make a scientific and mathematical statement to the apparent absurd manoeuvre executed by the pilot/crew.

Personally I think the pilot demonstrates some level of confidence, and stick - and - rudder skills, to say the least. It appears to me that he/she flies with some rather pin point accuracy, as the manoeuvre, although not right by most PPruners, is executed rather neatly. I am pretty convinced that severy turbulence could cause more structural damage than a perfectly executed 1 G barrel - roll could ever do - and how many guys here have found themselves in thunderstorms/severe turbulence/windshear. I would much rather be in a 1900 during a barrel roll than being in a 1900 flying thrugh :mad: weather!!!!

I think before we jump to some really bad conclusions, we must just remember the following:

Aircraft manufacturers also write the manual to protect themselves against litigation of civil nature. The mere fact that it (the 1900) has not been certified for such a manoeuvre does not imply that it can not be executed without damaging the aircraft in the process. Has anybody ever thought about the stupidity of certifying a passenger-carrying aircraft for aerobatics - why bother with the time and money since it is completely irrelevant for the purpose of its intended role (not necessarily a deficit in its design for that intended role).

Each person for himself on this one I think

Cheers:ok:

[Treetopflyer]

Listen Dude,
Aircraft manufacturers also write the manual to protect themselves against litigation of civil nature. The mere fact that it (the 1900) has not been certified for such a manoeuvre does not imply that it can not be executed without damaging the aircraft in the process. Has anybody ever thought about the stupidity of certifying a passenger-carrying aircraft for aerobatics - why bother with the time and money since it is completely irrelevant for the purpose of its intended role (not necessarily a deficit in its design for that intended role).


Pretty good way to look at it... :ok:

6-String

Check your PMs for a picture of my big boy on the measuring slab... :} :} :}

[WideGlide]

Now that all the chops are on the slab , who's the biggest D!CK methinks

[6-String]

Hey Treetop - love your measuring slapper dude.

Skytart - haul it out pal, lest your measurement be set at "default"!!! :}

[Woof etc]

Captain Alvin "Tex" Johnston and Co-Captain James Gannett performed TWO perfect rolls in a Boeing Dash 80 over SEATTLE (at the "Seafair" Festival), watched by some 200,000 people, in 1955.

Names and palces changed to protect the innocent involved.....

Looks like there different versions of the same event (from aviationexplorer.net)

The story after the roll...

The plane lands at Boeing field and Tex gets out and starts to walk away from the plane. A Boeing official runs over to Tex and tells him Mr. Allen wants to see him now. Mr. Allen is the president of Boeing.
So Tex heads off across the street to the Boeing Exec offices and into Mr. Allens office.
Tex walks in. Mr Allen from behind his desk says "How are Tex...Hows the family"? Tex answers the boss.
Mr Allen the says "I hear you rolled the plane today, Tex".
Tex says quietly....."Yes sir I did".
Mr Allen answers..."Don't do it again.......Bye Tex..say hello to the wife..".

About the Aircraft...
The Boeing 367-80 was the name of the "prototype" of both the 707/720 commercial transport/military transport/military tanker/military communications plane and the 717/739 (KC-135 etc) military transport/tanker. It was called the "Dash-80" and although 707 was eventually written on the tail (and it was registered N70700), it wasn't really a 707 so much as a pre-aircraft, a basic-built demonstrator.

Tex Johnston did the barrel roll and even if test pilots back then were different, the company was stunned by it and whatever the exact conversation was like, he apparently came close to losing his job. But the roll seems to have impressed the military and to have gotten Boeing the large contract for the KC-135.

[helldog]

Awesome, I want to go back to Africa now.

Irresponsible.......yeah I guess so but come on............You know which one of us hasnt done something similar or with similar possible results. I mean yeah your supposed to fill in your logbook every day but hey sometimes it doesnt get done for months. Now I am not trying to draw fire here but just hope people see what I am saying. At least a few years from now the dude can sit in a bar and tell the b1900 roll story some of us here can tell our own storys and maybe match or exceed it for lunacy but one thing is for sure an easyjet cadet will never be able to tell a story like that. Flying in AFrica WE LOVE IT.

Maximum respect to all the African flyers out there that work in some really harsh places and under the worst of conditions. Hats off, if you want to have a little fun once in a while go for it. (Legal note: This in no way implies that I endorse rolling a b1900 or 707)[/I]

PS I know i am a cr@p speller so none of the english teachers we sometimes get on here, thanks. Oh yeah I know not doing your log book cant have the same results, just saying that we dont all follow the law to the letter all the time.

[VanDokta]

All this talk about stress or no stress on the airframe, lets consider the stresses to the gyros and gyro driven instruments.

I recall an incident a few years ago where the instruments in a Twin Otter began to pack up. They were replaced, but soon after the replacement instruments also began giving hassles. The complete system was checked by the baffled instrument shop, looking for incorrect voltages or suction overspeeding the gyros, but the problems continued.

It was later found that the pilot of this particular aircraft had performed a barrel roll or two. Nothing too stressful, nice and smooth....

Once he disappeared, so did the instrument problems.
Lets hope that if this 1900's instruments or gyros fail, it's one at a time and not all together while doing a let-down to some murky airport.

[maxrated]

Its not the low g roll that this guy does that worries , its the numerous times that he's cocked the manouvre up while practising , with the resultant hi g recovery that would concern me re the structural integrity of the aerie.

Does one also need an inverted oil system to fly inverted with a PT engine ?

[CJ750]

After reading all of the above i think that we have all done some stupid things early on in our careers but this takes the cake. The aircraft was not designed or certified for this type of flying so why do it.

I suppose the same could be said about a Harvard skiing on the Vaal River(NO FLOATS INSTALLED). :=

What is the difference between an SAA trained pilot and a contract pilot doing something in an aeroplane for which it was not designed for.

Any thoughts

[Shrike200]

SAA pilots are Skygods, untouchable by mortal man, and can do no wrong. Warm air currents hold them constantly aloft, and angels stroke their wings. Contract pilots on the other hand, are naughty little boys, who wear their underwear over their heads, and need constant attention from our fearless managers lest we accidentally wander off, fall over, and can't get up again.

At least, thats what they're trying to tell us apparently. ;)

[DHC8-FO]

Next time I attempt a barrel roll in my DHC-8, ill have to remember to get rid of those pesky spoilers, trying to dump halfway through the roll. And whats a ****** anyway? I see this word used a lot.

[Full of Foehn]

SAA pilots are Skygods, untouchable by mortal man, and can do no wrong. Warm air currents hold them constantly aloft, and angels stroke their wings. Contract pilots on the other hand, are naughty little boys, who wear their underwear over their heads, and need constant attention from our fearless managers lest we accidentally wander off, fall over, and can't get up again.
At least, thats what they're trying to tell us apparently. ;)

Now that's funny.

[Bucket]

Yep. Them cowboys just won't stick to herding cattle and insist on showing their bravado in an aircraft. I know of at least one Arrow rolled by a destructor at 43 A@* S#%**l but alas cannot remember the reg.
:=

[Shrike200]

At least one Arrow? Try all of them dude, plus just about all the Cherokee's too.......

This is my problem with this kind of thing - everybody reckons it's fine if THEY do it just once - so the things end up getting rolled plenty over the years. Sure, this guy rolled the 1900 quite well, it probably barely felt it.....but it has to last quite a few years still, and over those years you can bet a couple of other guys are going to reckon they've got the magic touch, and once again it will be fine if only THEY roll it, 'just this once'.....meanwhile, the poor plane is on it's fifth or sixth barrel roll, something it was never even designed to do once, let alone five or six times (or more). So please, consider your buddy who flies the plane after you, and just don't do it. Pay for a flip in a Pitts or something when you get home, they roll much better anyway. I reckon just about everybody here with the vaguest of co-ords could roll a 1900, it's not like it's a death defying move anyway....like I said, do it properly in a plane made for it though. You're just stroking your own ego doing it in a transport plane, and shafting your buddies.

[Dufo]

The video doesn't show the crew fast erecting all their gyro's after the roll.

Perhaps they had other things to de-erect after rolling the baby.

[wheels up]

At least one Arrow? Try all of them dude, plus just about all the Cherokee's too.......

Have it on good authority that the Saratoga barrel rolls quite nicely as well. What do you reckon?

[helldog]

Not trying to stir things up here or saying its fine to do this sort of thing. BUT how many aircraft have crashed because they lost a wing or some other structural failure in flight? How many of those have been put down to an over stressed airframe due to misshandling. I truly think a few rolls in the life of an aircraft cant do much airframe harm. Harder than normal landings would stress the plane a lot more than a broll would, and I am sure these happen a lot more in the life of the plane than do b rolls. Again I stress it SHOULD not be done but its a bit dramatic to say that if you do it the machine is going to crash in the futere because of it.

[Shrike200]

Not *going* to crash, sure - but if you do it, you're doing something the designers didn't factor into the operating cycle lifespan of the machine. Perhaps aircraft haven't crashed but some have quite possibly been withdrawn from service when cracks are discovered during major inspections.

[Khaosai]

Surely if you have the balls to do something like that in the B1900, you also have the balls to put it in the tech log after landing for info !. :ok:

[SIC]

Hey Wheels up good question there about the SARATOGA - I'm also wondering????:}

[Shrike200]

Have it on good authority that the Saratoga barrel rolls quite nicely as well. What do you reckon?

Well, I don't know about *good* authority..... :ooh: I'm wondering too :) .......All I have to say is "I did not have sexual relations with Ms Lewinsky"......

[Only]

According to me a barrel roll if done correctly is a 1G manauver, but my question is, is that 1G all over the plane or just inside the cabin?
Because I don’t think its 1G at the wingtips.
I’ve been in al couple of barrel rolls in about 3 different aircraft types that’s no certified for it, never done it myself though.

And we all know about the guy doing it in the Bell 407 at Virginia airshow couple of years back, anybody know what happened to him?

[reptile]

According to me a barrel roll if done correctly is a 1G manauver, but my question is, is that 1G all over the plane or just inside the cabin?
Because I don’t think its 1G at the wingtips.


From this I deduce that you've decided not to continue studies towards your Engineering Degree. :E

[wheels up]

Only is correct. Since the lower wingtip will be closer to the earth at 90 and 270 degrees, the value of the gravitational constant, g, on the lower wing will be higher. Thus higher g forces! he,he


Shrike: Hope you didn't inhale either. And get the dress dry cleaned...

[reptile]

wheels up: Did you and Only share a desk at varsity? :D

[putt for dough]

I’ve been in al couple of barrel rolls in about 3 different aircraft types that’s no certified for it,

What a brave boy you are......

[south coast]

i also like to have fun, but i dont understand this debate.

since the majority of us giving opinions are pilots on here then let me put this to you...

do you fly at speeds above Vne?

i would bet all of my salary that most dont, even though the plane is built with a factor of safety of perhaps 1.5 and therefore could quite happily trundle around at speeds above that stated in the manual as the max speed.

why do we respect that speed, because in the section called LIMITATIONS it says that is the max speed, it also says in that section, LIMITATIONS, not approved for aerobatics.

why respect any of the limitations if you are going to break one of them?

[SIC]

I guess I could fly above Vne, or slip in a beer or two less than 8/10 hours before a flight, or smoke a joint when I am off, or put some xtra hours in the logbook to help the old career along, or screw the boss's wife, or overload, or go with the magdrop or do any one of a million little things......

BUT to all the idiots out here who think its fun to fly upside down in a transport cat aircraft in africa cause you will have a better story to tell than the eazy jet cadet who never had the chance.....

SOONER OR LATER SOMEBODY WILL FIND OUT AND IT WILL BITE YOU IN THE ASS - and there goes the career...:ugh: :ugh:

[Treetopflyer]

Wow. NOW I'm scared.

[SIC]

Well treetop your name says it all - stick to microlights - and if someone was dumb enough to let you touch anything that carries passengers I hope they have explained the basics of liability to you!:mad:

[Shrike200]

Quite lively here!

I have actually heard of 'rolling g' before, in reference to an F14 Tomcat that was overstressed, yet did not show a max g above the limit on its g-meter. The pilot described how he did this, and referred to the dangers of rolling g several times.

Since the wingtips are being accelerated to a higher velocity (due to the rolling) than the fuselage in the same time period, they must experience a higher acceleration value. Quid pro quo. Cogito ergo sum. Q.E.D. And other Latin phrases.

Plus wheels ups quite correct reference to the force created by the difference in g due to the difference in distance from the earths centre of gravity, and we've got us some wing-ripping forces here! {please, somebody fall for this!}

[SIC]

Only lively here cause most other threads have become thouroughly boring - and since I practically have no life here in the hotel room all by myself and with the naughty TV overpriced as only the Europeans know how -PPRUNE is my only entertainment. Pathetic but true...:ouch:

[south coast]

over priced....?

its about 15 euros....thats worth a few tugs!

[Gerund]

south coast

Your argument above says it all. Thanks.

(Hope you are enjoying life away from the sandpit! :} )

However... all you out there who are interested in this thread, and worry about the g forces when a barrel roll is properly executed should watch this video. And those of you who strut your stuff, watch someone who knows how to show a bit of modesty! This is quite amazing! And for starters.... double engine shut down just for fun... no problem. :-)

http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/006784.html

[Treetopflyer]

Well treetop your name says it all - stick to microlights - and if someone was dumb enough to let you touch anything that carries passengers I hope they have explained the basics of liability to you!:mad:

Wow. NOW you're pissed off.

What your name tells me is that nobody was dumb enough to put you in the left seat anyway, so don't give us lectures about liability... :=

Invest these 15 euros in that pay TV and wank for a while, maybe it will calm you down.

[south coast]

thanks gerund...yes i am enjoying my job back in europe.

what a great bit of footage...no arrogance at all, just a genuine guy who knows his sh*t...

[putt for dough]

Wow. NOW you're pissed off.
What your name tells me is that nobody was dumb enough to put you in the left seat anyway, so don't give us lectures about liability... :=
Invest these 15 euros in that pay TV and wank for a while, maybe it will calm you down.
Treeflop.....:zzz: :zzz:
I would not let you be responsible for feeding my pigs...:D
Easy now cuz....#
be very careful with the sh1te you stir here....
Oh wait you were looking for a response like this hey you derogitory
no good for nothing!!!!
Yawn ,am i the only pu:mad: :mad: face that feels like i do about
this guys constant negative comments????
I think i need a pee on the treeflops head:D :D

[SIC]

Here's one for everybody who wants to be upside down -

Get rostered for a real long haul flight - at least half way around the world.
When you get there you will be 180 degrees / "upside down" in relation to the point of departure over the surface of the earth.Brilliant!
What's more you can now fly your whole approach and landing upside down. Stupendous!
ANd taxi in inverted - and walk around the place inverted for as long as you are there! Fantasic!!
All at a constant one G. No violations of limitations involved!!

To treetop - How can I say this without lowering myself to the new groundbreaking depths of depravity your last post explored - don't go for that MENSA test just yet mate. There might be someplace for people who confuse plain rudeness with humour - suggest you go live there.

[Led Zep]

Regarless whether that was right or wrong, it sure made for one awesome video!! :} :ok:

[ALPHA FLOOR]

I DIG IT!

Whats the big deal - If Scully and his cronies can go waterskiing on the Vaal in an aircraft not certified for it.......

Right or wrong I think its cool - but unlikely that I would try it myself.

AFL:ok: :ok: :ok:

[helldog]

SIC sorry if I hit a raw nerve somwhere there I honestly did not mean to stir sh1t. My point was that its a different world in Africa, very harsh and often depressing conditions to work in sometimes you have to let off some steam. I mean nothing wrong with being a cadet, all I am saying is that if you have flown in africa you will understand, if you havent there is no way you could comprahend it. Imagine this is what those guys are going through- Not seeing family for perhaps years, not seeing a woman of their own race for a long time-let alone had a sh@g, landing somwhere and having guys run out of the bush, 15 year old kids high on drugs pointing machine guns at you, having to negotiate bribes everyday to get you and your aircraft out of deep poop, working in extreme wx, high temps, high stress approaches that you make up yourself, sometimes avoiding overflying some villages due to possible ground fire, no tv in your language or at all, no news from home for months, no internet or plush hotel rooms, constant threat to personal security this is just a start.........maybe now you can begin to understand why we sometimes let of some steam in this way. Man you could never understand until you have been to a departures "lounge" with bullet holes and scratches everywhere pools of blood and splashes of fresh blood on the walls, I can tell you boy you want to do a b roll after takeoff just to celebrate still being alive.

[madherb]

Man you could never understand until you have been to a departures "lounge" with bullet holes and scratches everywhere pools of blood and splashes of fresh blood on the walls, I can tell you boy you want to do a b roll after takeoff just to celebrate still being alive.
The results of trying to get pax into some of the 'airplanes' that fly around our African skies?? Poor buggers are probably scared stiff! :eek: :eek:

[SIC]

Helldog I have no real issue with your statement - I purely refered to it to make my point. I am South African - lucky enought to never have flown contract but I have seen enough of africa to know what you are talking about. I also understand the sentiment of sometimes just wanting to do something exhilirating to celebrate your survival or break the monotony. I do long haul over oceans all the time and miss the days of smaller planes and more fun too.
But the fact is what this guy did is not acceptable and I just pointed out that something like this can haunt you for many years and screw up future opportunities if it comes out. I certainly won't admit to rolling transport aircraft - and definately wont publish it on the web!!

[4144r]

The same guy who did the video wrote:

Societe d'aviation d'affaire sub-saharienne recherche un pilote de
Beech 1900 avec 1500 TT, licence OACI, QT et medical a jour. Validation ZS- preferee. Bonnes conditions.

Meme compagnie recherche egalement un captain Challenger 601.

Envoyez vos candidatures avec CV a: ..........@...........

If you can't fly upside down please don't apply:ok:

Happy landing

[helldog]

Fair enough SIC I just thought I might have offended you and that was not the intention. Take it easy tiger ;)

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Helldog

Didn't know Ozmates were such sensitive little daffodils that they'd even notice....:E

Fly safe boet....:ok:

[helldog]

Mate wish I was flying. Firmly rooted to the ground for now......for now. And yes I am a sensitive new age guy.

Helldog, coming to a sky near you.

[Stan Switek]

I'm not a fan of that type of flying. I couldn't help but wonder how many hungry crocks were in that river per mile.

[south coast]

biggest load of rubbish i have ever read helldog!

your argument is very weak!

[helldog]

Like I said south coast, unless you have been there and have the t-shirt, dont try to understand. I just tried to give an insight to those that havent worked in the bush of Africa. Like I have said previously here I dont condone it but I do understand it. I am sure that very dude could slot in to Air France and stick to the rules and be totally pro. about it. The whole point I have been trying to make here is that that kind of stuff should not be done but I would not write that guy off or slag him in any way, after all I aint no angel.

[south coast]

*quote*

Like I said south coast, unless you have been there and have the t-shirt, dont try to understand

sounds like a line out of a vietnam film, come on, be serious now.

i did contract flying in africa for 5 years and all of my friends did too, and neither me or any of them have ever said or done what you are saying.

the fact is, the kind of people who would roll the plane dont need the excusses you are offering to do it, no, they would do it in sa if they thought they could get away with it.

(even in this thread you have talk of people in 43 air school doing it in saratoga's, they are not under the pressures you describe?)

the only reason they do it while on tour is because they have a very good chance of not being found out!

read about the crew in europe who did some aerobatics in a g4 in the circuit, bizjet section, and explain that then, they were not flying on contract in africa with all the stuff you explained....

they just thought they could get away with it.

[helldog]

Hey there again south coast. I think there seems to be some missunderstanding here mate. I am in no way saying that this kind of stuff should go on. Lets see if I can be clear here, if that was my plane and my company and I found out about that the guy would be out. I am not saying you have done anything to this extreme or that I would. But what you have never kept low after take off and then pulled up at the end of the runway? Never flown over a camp just a few feet below 500? I mean these guys should keep their heads low, you would not want a potential employer to know that was you on the video. My point is dude I am not going to write this dude off. If you read what I said and then interpret it the way you did, yes you would be right, its a weak argument. But I am not saying that having a tough time is an excuse for this type of behaviour. What I am saying is that we all need to let off some steam from time to time, how you do that, well thats a different story...we are all different. Now as for the GIV dudes, well thats just crazy.

[B200Drvr]

I dont know what scares me more, the fact that he rolled the 1900....or the fact that half of you making comments still think it was a Barrel role!!!!:ugh:

[JIM JAM]

I left East Africa in 96 after flying out there for 6 years to get a job with a Big Airline back here. Watching that video brings it all back and I would just like to say thanks for reviving some amazing memories!:ok:

[exjet]

Don't think so - just a cocked up straight roll - scooped, I would think a little too little speed to start with then too little rudder to finish it off as the speed blead off. A BARREL roll by definition passes through the horizon inverted 90 degrees from the original path before returning to the original flight path.

If its YOUR aeroplane and the guy next to you is willing to go with and happy to have a no payout insurance claim if it all goes t*ts up, then no problem. If its someone else's then maybe a bit irresponsible.

[sidestick driver]

SInce when does a barrel roll only pass through the top at 90*??? This must be a military thing.. SO I have been told by some SAAF Major.
The barrell roll looked pretty perfect" exjet", much along the line of the other rolls I have seen done, or been taught to do.
The only thing 90* at the top is the swing wing on your Puma, in relation to it's tail rotor!!!!

How does a Lear or your little Global Ranger roll Exjet?:ok:

[B200Drvr]

I have done barrel rolls as taught by an A10 driver/ Instructor, whilst flying in the US and as done by a SAAF old school Instructor, and although they differ from each, they were nothing like that, IMHO that was not a barrel rolls a$$,
but that is just my opinion :rolleyes:

[I.R.PIRATE]

Barrel Roll

The Barrel Roll is a not competition maneuver. The barrel roll is a combination between a loop and a roll. You complete one loop while completing one roll at the same time. The flight path during a barrel roll has the shape of a horizontal cork screw. Imagine a big barrel, with the airplanes wheels rolling along the inside of the barrel in a cork screw path. During a barrel roll, the pilot experiences always positive G's. The maximum is about 2.5 to 3 G, the minimum about 0.5 G.


There are several ways to fly a barrel roll, but during an aerobatic ride, we'll use the following procedure:


From level flight, I'll pull the nose up smoothly but quickly to 45 degrees above the horizon. As the nose reaches the 45-degree point, I start a smooth roll (usually to the left) while gradually increasing the pull to start a loop. I continue the maneuver by using aileron, elevator, and rudder inputs to maintain a constant, smooth change in both pitch and roll. As we reach the inverted position at the top of the "loop," the wings should be level and the nose should be on the horizon, with our heading 90 degrees off our original direction. The maneuver continues with the nose falling through the horizon as the airplane keeps rolling back toward wings level. The barrel roll ends, like a loop, with the airplane returning to level flight on its original altitude and heading.

You can look around during a barrel roll, which ideally is a smooth, graceful maneuver. Enjoy the view as the world goes upside down, but make sure you look straight ahead as we fly through the top (inverted) portion of the maneuver. It's always cool to see "the earth above and the sky below."



Aileron rolls are flown with the rudder and elevator in the neutral position during the roll. The aileron is fully deflected in the direction of the roll. This is the easiest of the rolls to fly.
The aileron roll is started by pulling the nose up to 20 - 30 degrees above the horizon. The elevator is then neutralized and the aileron fully deflected in the direction of the roll. The controls are maintained in that position till the roll is completed. After the roll is completed the nose is usually 20 - 30 degrees below the horizon.

The aileron roll is not a competition maneuver.


NOW WAKE UP AND KNOW YOUR GEN IF YOU WANT TO MAKE COMMENTS!!!

[ALPHA FLOOR]

Barrell roll or Aileron role I dont give a crap..... Its cool - Hats off to the guy!

A roll is a roll and I dig it! Whats all the pettiness and fighting about?

AFL

[ehwatezedoing]

watch someone who knows how to show a bit of modesty!
http://jeremy.zawodny.com/blog/archives/006784.html
Bob Hoover "knew" and not only to be modest:
That's why his Commander was certified to perform Aerobatics.
His aircraft was built with stronger spars and stab and was certified by the FAA for loops and rolls (so old Bob could perform with it and sell more of them. He was after all their sales rep)






:hmm:

[Shrike200]

....Whats all the pettiness and fighting about?

It's pprune.... ;)

[Hanz Blix]

Some very interesting comments showing up in this thread, makes me wonder just how well trained some people are (and do they know the B190?)


The other aspect is the fact that it is a 1900D. I doubt the EFIS gyro's were designed for inverted flight. The video doesn't show the crew fast erecting all their gyro's after the roll.

True alot have this system but alot also have AHRS therefore no need no hit the fast errect!

"Normal professional pilots r not trained for that, unlike you cowboys who bend the wings and then put other pilots life in danger when they fly the aeroplanes after you...........

You a commercial pilot, act like one!!!!"

HMMMMMMMMMMMM funny I'm a professional pilot and have 400+ hours doing aeros and teaching them and infact plenty of people I work with have many hours aeros or at very least a basic aeros rating. I think if you want to be a professional pilot you should cover as many aspects of flying as possible! Including aeros, tail wheel time ect:confused:

Eveything aside what was done in the video wasn't smart (dumb actually). However they seemed to be at a safe altitude and it appears the roll was done smoothly (I wasn't there!).

G limitations for the B190 +3G and -1.2G flaps up:ok: to exceed these they would have had to stuff it up, they didn't.

Before I get slagged I'm not defending what was done and even though I could do it and have confidence the plane would do it theres no way you would catch me doing it. After all we are professional pilots.:ok:

The vid was coll though, HAHAHA:E

[ehwatezedoing]

G limitations for the B190 +3G and -1.2G flaps up:ok: to exceed these they would have had to stuff it up, they didn't.
But we don't know about those done for practice before :E

[Foo-Fighter]

excellent point, ehwatezedoing :D

[6-String]

Okay everybody, GET 'EM OUT! (Sorry ladies). Now, point them into wind. READY, SET, PISS!!!

He who pisses the furthest, wins! :ok:

[nomoneynowek]

Barrel Roll
................. the wings should be level and the nose should be on the horizon, with our heading 90 degrees off our original direction.............NOW WAKE UP AND KNOW YOUR GEN IF YOU WANT TO MAKE COMMENTS!!!

Jislaaik maar jy kan kak praat!

I don't know about you pal, but last time I did a barrel roll it was in a straight line, with narry a 90 degree turn to be seen.

But if that's the way you want to do them, knock yourself out!:D

And while you're about it, explain exactly where the loop comes into the maneuver? I'd be awfully curious to learn about that!!!

What was that about knowing your GEN???:hmm:

[GTJDS]

Bob Hoover sometimes used standard planes with no mods except for the unfeathering system and larger accumulator fitted.

[Shrike200]

...but last time I did a barrel roll it was in a straight line....

I don't know much about barrel rolls (did some in a Harvard, thats it) etc - but if you used the elevator, I don't see how it could have been in a straight line.

[madherb]

Jislaaik maar jy kan kak praat!

I don't know about you pal, but last time I did a barrel roll it was in a straight line, with narry a 90 degree turn to be seen.

:hmm:
A proper barrel roll is a combination of a loop and a roll. Imagine a corkscrew and you'll get the idea. When inverted, i.e. top of the 'loop', the aircraft has rolled 90deg off original heading, and rolls back to the original heading while completing the 'loop'. What you see in the video is a straight roll, where the aircraft rotates 360deg aroung the longitudinal axis.

Did many of both while learning to fly in days of yore. Of course, terminology may have changed since those days; alas, lots of things are no longer what they used to be, and a 'barrel roll' nowadays is a reference to a specific sexual technique.........but that's not really pertinent to this forum!! :E

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Pretty much what IRP described then....:}

[Shrike200]

Pretty much what IRP described then....:}

Yup, thats how it was told to me as well, the one time I did it. I remember when the instructor started describing it, I was thinking 'Geez, this sounds way more complicated than I originally thought!' My original thoughts were something along the lines of 'a barrel roll is like an aileron roll, with back stick pressure'. It turned out it wasn't.

[I.R.PIRATE]

nmoneynoweknoCLUE!!! No sympathy...and in public (prune) too...thats gotta hurt:cool:

[madherb]

Maybe that's why he has 'nowek' !! :ugh:

[nomoneynowek]

Eeeesh, I will consider my smart a$$ corrected:\ My apologies IRP

Although what's it they say about the similarity between arguing on the internet and being in the special olympics? In both cases, even if you win you're still retarded!:ok:

Some wek, very little money!

[I.R.PIRATE]

Apology accepted bru, he says while mumbling something about the difference between arguing and facts, before sticking an ice cream into his forehead...

[Margarita]

Few more low G rolls...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vQpVI_aldB0&search=aircraft

[Formally Known As]

The difference between the first and the last video, is this. The a/c in the last video was flown by a professional airshow/demonstration pilot.

[Pieter_Pieletjie]

WHO SAID ITS A B1900???
Don't 200's,300's,350's,1900's look the same from the cokpit?

Just a thought!
:ok: :ok: :ok:

[I.R.PIRATE]

have seen pics of the aerie...green and xxxx 1900, and if you search carefully around the chad area, you might just find it...:ooh:

[Pieter_Pieletjie]

xxxx = white?
ZS-XXX?

[I.R.PIRATE]

yes, hehehe, there are even some pics of it on the net...;)

[Woof etc]

Cant be.

ZS-XXX is a DC4!


http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0259149/L/

[I.R.PIRATE]

not zs-xxx, xxx means unknown....dont it?

[RJ71]

Great video! There is no way that was a local co pilot! El Capitano would have been written up big time for that one where i work. Keep the expats in Africa!!:ok:

[Jelly Doughnut]

Guys, some food for thought....

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/604DD8020CB58DD7862571DB0054ED75?OpenDocument

As posted by Gerund on another thread...

Beechcraft 1900 Emergency AD

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As the Beechcraft 1900 is such a common contract aircraft in Africa, I thought it would be worth mentioning on this forum that the FAA have issued an Emergency Airworthiness Directive, today, 31 August 2006, number 2006-18-51.
This requires initial action at the later of 'within 24 hrs' or 'before further flight'... ie NOW!
This AD refers to a condition that '....could result in the wing separating from the aeroplane....'
Those of you on contract may wish to bring this to the attention of maintenance if they haven't yet received details.
Aircraft affected are as follows:
1) 1900 UA-3
2) 1900C (C-12J) UB-1 through UB-74, UC-1 through UC-174, and UD-1 through UD-6
3) 1900D UE-1 through UE-439
Happy flying!

[Farty Flaps]

Whats all the fuss about. It looked like a standard maneuvere pattern for a C of A flight behind the Ngong hills.

Fairly bog standard dickin about

[emailme]

Love the vid anyone with decent aerobatic skills can pull it off. Mayyybee. The 1900 wing CRAAAAAAAACK AD is from clowns trying mimic the CCR music vid.
Dohhhhhhh.
Some should always keep the greasy side down:}
http://www.skytrailsranch.com/images/BugTeeth.jpg


http://jyvetools.jyve.com/skypeme.gif (skype:emailjunkman)http://jyvetools.jyve.com/IMTO.gif (skype:emailjunkman?chat) http://jyvetools.jyve.com/skypeprofile.gif (skype:emailjunkman?userinfo) http://jyvetools.jyve.com/addcontact.gif (skype:emailjunkman?add) http://jyvetools.jyve.com/createchat.gif (skype:Jyve02;Jyve03?chat)

[SIC]

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/2006-7-10_Beech-Cocktail.wmv"

Since this thread died a bit I thought I would inject some new life into it --

[emailme]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TUVWHUR5OEI

Sorry just a poor take off on Bob Hoover. These Guys aren't Bob Hoover. Try it single pilot backhanded. Bob's the the best and always will be

[LongJohnThomas]

The video in question does'nt quite bother me, the technicalities involved either.The point is, the pilots got away with something they had fun doing obviously.
What bothers me here, is the notion that some people tend to think that AFRICA is the place to display all the indiscipline they could not possibly display in home countries.
We all should caution one another about our behaviour concerning airplanes, these machines, though cute and fun, are also KILLERS!!!
I would suggest that we all take some kind of care in how we operate these pieces of equipment.
The wise are only told ONCE!:ok:

[HSInop]

""We all should caution one another about our behaviour concerning airplanes, these machines, though cute and fun, are also KILLERS!!!"'

years ago flying into a small strip not knowing that a hotdogger just buzzed the village I was surprised with a group of young and trigger happy AK carring conscripts were intent on either shooting me or the plane but facing a few hours in their "jail" for a few hours, maybe my most scary moment trying to help those that need it. its not professional or safe, not only for the guy who dose it but for the guys doing the right thing. the locals don't have that love for flying like we do. The killers are on the ground and all they need is that excuse. Keep it safe for youself and the poor starving pilot who lands there later.
Thats my two cents. :ok: