Hold instructions terminology

[hixton]

Ive been looking through the rant xl programme trying to get prepared for flying in the UK and am having a bit of a problem with the terminolgy.
Can someone tell me if this is the standard phrasing in the UK?

eg. Hold left on the ABC 145` radial at 29nm DME from 24nm DME.
or
Hold left on the EFG 255`radial to 3nm DME

In the US the instructions are different as you probably know, can someone try to explain these instructions to me as the diagrams are not showing what I am trying to picture from the instructions.

[120.4]

Morning Hixton

In the US I believe they set up holds en-route as a flow measure if something has gone wrong ahead of you? We don't do that in the UK. In the London TMA holding is such a standard part of our game plan that they are already set up and published.

I am not aware that any ATC unit in the UK would specifically spell out the details of a published hold as part of an instruction. We would if we needed to use a non-published hold because of unusual circumstances but otherwise you will just be told to hold at XXX. We then rely on you to fly the hold as published in the UK AIP. I am not sure how the holds are described in Jepps/AIP these days but I would imagine they identify the fix, indicate left or right turn, the inbound radial, and DME limits if applicable. 1minute race track is standard.

Hope that helps

Point 4

[Dan Dare]

FLIRT is the pnemonic that I remember from training.

Fix
Level
Inbound track
Right or left turns
Time of inbound track

I have never had to use this, nor have I ever heard it being used. In the London TMA there are published holds, which are separated up to certain promulgated levels. I guess that if you weren't using the published holds, then you would be compromising separation unless it was for one specific aircraft holding (eg fuel dumping/burning), when other separations would be used anyway.

[Scott Voigt]

Actually we have published holding patterns all over the place and we use them quite a bit when things back up at any airport. Oh the lovely terms of XXX cleared to, XXXXXX hold northeast as published, expect further clearance tomorrow <G>....

regards

[tired-flyboy]

In the London TMA, you will get sent to a hold and be expected to fly the appropriate pattern.
However, that being said if you are 'Stack Swapped' to a hold that you are not expecting you can always ask the controller and they should be able to tell you.
We have diagrams on our overheads which show the entry points, outbound legs and timings.
Like everything else in flying, if in doubt ASK!!
footnote: just noticed Point 4's reply oopps!!

[T9-ATCO]

Dan Dare is right, and I would add "E" in the end, meaning Estimated Approach Time, or time when the aircraft is estimated to leave holding pattern and continue approach following delay!!!

[5milesbaby]

There have been rare occasionas when I've had to set up a hold at a fix (in the UK) that hasn't got a published hold, I would say "ABC123, on reaching <fix> take up the hold, left/right hand turns, 1 (or 1 1/2) min legs, inbound axis (present axis or specify an axis)". I have always used a fix that is on a flight planned airway.

[ATCO2]

Hi,

ICAO Doc, 4444 exactly specify all possible holdings, does not metter where. In the part Phraseology, you can find holding instructions for all type of holdings (based on NDB, on the waypoint-fix, on radial of VOR-using a time for outbound or limiting with DME distance. Just have a look Doc 4444, Phraseology part. No other holding instructions are valid.

I hope it helps.

Regards