Ryanair / other Low cost Turnover

[planeshipcar]

I am curious to what Ryanair annual turnover is for pilots ie. How many leave each year and how many are hired?

Also would be grateful to know this for other low cost airline like easy jet

cheers

[the grim repa]

"Ryanair turnover" is a term of reference to when the management turn you over and try to poke you one from behind.

[Airbrake]

A little out of date, but official figures for Easyjet from March were 10% turn over for pilots and 23% for cabin crew. Both figures were on target at the time of briefing, and recruiting was not a problem! I think the clowns in Easyland have revised their planning figures somewhat in recent months though!

[God Loves a Flyer]

Not sure what the figures are for FR but stories of people leaving en masse are greatly exaggerated if you ask me. I don't know too many who have left / are leaving from my base or any other. Most of those who go do so for long haul. I haven't heard of anyone jumping ship to join Ezy for example.


Incidentally, did you spot that FR are now full for FOs until next year? There are only a few places left for captains too. Apparently they've no problem attracting people with the 5-4.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

I heard this week that 'a number' of FR pilots are coming to easyJet on the 737 fleet. I am not sure of the details but my source has been right thus far.

I also met our Chief Exec, Andy Harrison, in person this week at Gatwick. He was, as always, extremely pleasant and his appearance at 0600 in the crew room to chat to anyone and everyone he saw was both impressive and very welcome. He worked his way round all the briefing tables chatting to all and sundry and took hassle from both pilots and cabin crew alike! In the past he has been accompanied by his flight ops lackies who were there to act as 'babel fish' if any criticisms were issued. He was here on his own this time and to my mind did extremely well. He is increasingly a popular figure among the crews and is well thought of. In the course of discussions he was very open about the failings of the last year in terms of not starting mass recruiting until it was too late. He talked of pilot turnover being around 10%, but I can't remember what he said for cabin crew. He also fully accepted that increasing pilot retention through improved terms and conditions is the way to go and makes good business sense. My own view is that he has been a breath of fresh air, and I for one feel that he has delivered on his promises.

EasyJet is not perfect, but it is a whole lot better than most airlines and many times better than Ryanair to work for. That is not to knock the folk who are working there, but if you have a choice right now then you have no choice.

[HundredPercentPlease]

NSF,

I haven't met AH yet, but it's reports like this that fill me with hope for the future.

[red 5]

He's very much a people person and very much believes that it's good motivated staff that makes a company work.

[RAT 5]

Which makes it all the more gaulling, reading in an aviation newspaper in STN a few months ago, the old tos#$r RW was inaugerated into the Airline Managers' Hall of Fame for services rendered. Good God almighty. What's next; MOL for Pope?

[LegsUpLucy]

Mr.Norman Stanley Fletcher i beg to differ.I have worked for both Ryanair and Easyjet and i have to say i much prefer working at ryanair.
The pay is better there is more roster stability,no constant changes and taxi journeys like at easy,much better for those who commute!
I have also found the crew to be a very diverse interesting mix of people with a much higher staff morale,Dub pilots aside of course!
Its by no means perfect,but it is low cost,although personally i'm much happy here than at easy ;)

[Max Autobrake]

Unfortunately there are still a bunch of underachieving sycophantic middle "managers" at easy, hence the abomination of a 737 with "Ray Webster" grafitti plastered over the front.

AH is clearly what this Company has needed for a long time, but it'll take a while for him to right the wrongs of the past 10 years of Webster's (and more recently) Winter's greed and self-interest.

[Nice Touch]

NSF,

What exactly is so impressive about being in a crewroom at 6 in the morning.

And how can you extrapolate the future of the company from this single act and some meaningless crap talk about T&Cs.

Have you ever worked for Ryanair?-what is better about easyJet then?

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Nice Touch - if you cannot see the difference between a CEO like AH who is roaming round pressing the flesh with his pilots and cabin crew early in the morning and a CEO like MOL who openly despises the lot of them, then you are best suited to life in Ryanair.

The 'meaningless crap talk' about T&Cs you alluded to is there in any contract for anyone to read about. You may find that most people are actually quite interested in the fine detail and like to know beforehand what they are actually signing up to. The great thing about easyJet contracts is that every pilot knows what everyone else's says - by all accounts a luxury not on offer to our colleagues at Ryanair.

And by the way, no I have not worked for Ryanair - for which I am extremely grateful. Nor have I worked for Emirates, Etihad, Royal Brunei, British Airways, BMI, Monarch or a whole host of other airlines. Nonetheless, I have friends who work for many of them and take the time to research each one as the need arises. Therefore I am happy to form an educated opinion once I know the facts. No doubt you too have a view, albeit probably not very well informed if most of your posts are anything to go by. The truth is out there mate - just take the time to do some research rather than spit forth ill-mannered posts all the time. You might just learn something.

Regarding salaries, it is extremely difficult to make accurate comparisons, but my latest calcs indicate that easyJet is for the first time better paid than Ryanair overall. I will not bore you with the details but once again you can go on our website and find the deal - there is nothing hidden and what you see is what you get.

[Nice Touch]

NSF,

Lets try again. What exactly, improvements wise, has resulted from AH early morning "flesh squeezing". Whilst I don't doubt that his intention is to improve life-there is a long way to go from the above to an improvement-as a share holder I think you should have a pay cut and work harder and stop wasting money on the bloody airbus.

Now to you. Two shags does not make you Casanova. Your lack of airline experience shows and,if you are a pilot, what a pain in the ar$e you must be. People like you set T&Cs BACK. I bet when asked you flirt around the point of whats wrong-change your colours to suit the company-and NEVER convey the true feelings of your friends.

Your pontification of Ryanair makes me sick-not because I love Leo-BUT you just don"t know what you are talking about-BECAUSE you have not worked for them. So less of the "educated" and "ill informed" from you please.

If your happy then good-but stay away from subjects over your head and concentrate on butt kissing-which is the only way to get on in easy.

Good luck I remain a Nice Touch

[ZBMAN]

Nice Touch,

Perhaps you should think twice before posting. I honestly don't know why you would think NSF lacks airline experience, but perhaps you are the one that is inexperienced (at least on pprune).
I suggest you read all the other posts by NSF, and you will soon realise the silliness of your comments.

[Nice Touch]

ZB,

Why should I think twice before asking a reasonable question-perhaps you would like to answer-perhaps you know what you are talking about.

There is nothing silly,ill-informed or otherwise about my experience at easyJet-I KNOW what I am talking about and I saw the the airline taking shape long before NSF was involved.

I do not retract from any comment made-why the blood hell should I-NSF sets out his stall on the ezy/fr issues and is just wrong. I am not here to "big up" ryan-but I will shoot down that sycophantic thread that exists in easy of people that have been "oranged". I really do wish you could come to a FR base for a month-you would see what I mean. As for NSF experience-I could not care less-hours in the air never equated to ability or contributed to foresight or intelligence. Just because my responses are robust and personal-so what-I admit to an element of goading-it irresistible when a person as pompous as NSF "presides" over threads.

on a conciliatory note I do hope that AH works out-but the initials don't bode well!

[easy]

I've no idea who NSF is, apart from the fact that he's a LGW pilot, but I've always found his postings to be well-balanced, thought out and informative.
NT's postings on the other hand........:yuk:

[Stan Woolley]

NSF does not impress me at all.

Unlike both Nice Touch and myself he has NOT worked for both Ryanair and Easyjet so it's a bit insulting to say the least that he pontificates about how awful it is at FR.

NT can speak for himself but we are hardly new boys in the airline business. I have been flying Boeings since 1989. Easyjet provided me with my worst experience by far in terms of being constantly let down by the top management and rostering which can only be described as experimental!

Ryanair don't pretend to be nice but I'd much rather work for a competent bastard than a Blair-like bull****ting fool.

[Monarch Man]

Horses for courses me thinks..Ive worked for both, RYR as far as I'm concerned is a place to be avoided.

NICE TOUCH
Being robust is one thing, being an arse however speaks volumes about your own personal attitudes towards those who choose to contribute in an open fashion.
Just because you don't like the "tone" of a reply, you seem to think its ok to goad someone as you put it. The ability to articulate an argument without resorting to personal slights shows far more "foresight or intelligence" than a few cheap shots ever will, in that much your responses match your rhetoric, I'd suggest you are seriously deficient in both:=

[Aloue]

I have both met pilots who have worked for both EZY and RYR and also read their comments here on pprune from time to time.

It strikes me that one of the sources of misunderstanding / differences in opinions about the two companies is that while there is one EZY, there are many RYR's. You could meet three RYR pilots in the morning and discover truthfull accounts of their pay, conditions and experiences that differ radically. That's because RYR conditions and pay DO differ considerably.

However, anybody in RYR who is ACTUALLY doing as well overall as pilots in EZY (which is different from thinking it) is very definitely in a minority - certainly as regards pay. As for the famous 5-4, let's wait and see how it looks when the various sub-clauses are invoked and the leave situation clarifies itself.

[d71146]

Nice Touch,

Perhaps you should think twice before posting. I honestly don't know why you would think NSF lacks airline experience, but perhaps you are the one that is inexperienced (at least on pprune).
I suggest you read all the other posts by NSF, and you will soon realise the silliness of your comments.

Now, I do not want to get involved in any mud slinging,taking sides here but I have always found Norman Stanley Fletchers postings to be sensible,interesting and balanced.

[Nice Touch]

I welcome and expect a flaming-I don't care. I also accept that I do not contribute directly to any informed debate-BUT I will redress the balance so long as NSF is involved-I admit to taking a personal dislike to his post-because they are so reminiscent of the attitude that put easy where it is today-weak, insipid, and above all WRONG for the last time.
This is not about who is better-as Mon. Man above states, its about what an individual wants.
Someone out there is hating, easyJet at the moment-is on a demographic line which has put them outside a BA, Virgin even Monarch and is at their wits end. So how is NSF post contributing to any informed debate.
So Mon. Man et al I am glad you are happy-I am happy-have a go-like I said I expect it-but contribute-expalin yourself and I ask you the question. What is so fantastic about the new man being in a crewroom at 6 in the morning and why does that mean things will improve?
Anyway I will throw my hat into the ring-If you want a superstable roster, good money-excellent aircraft AND promotions based on merit-assesments made in simulators and some excellent flying. No bull-no cosy chats, no building lego towers without talking then give Ryan a go. Just to be sure I am not waving the Ryan flag see it for what it is-you come to work-do your best and go home-no hassle and no orange bull.
On the question of turnover what do you expect in Loco.-a 25 year old poss. Captain or at least 3000 hours to not go and explore his/her possibilities. The retention of the old and infirm (me) and mortgaged is probably more of an indication of T&Cs because it indicates sustainability-and on a first past the post you can DO Ryan for longer than easy-but not for ever.

[Stan Woolley]

Aloue

Oh I'm sorry.

I only THINK I'm better off when I'm actually not, thanks for keeping me straight. Want to see my p60's? Want to see my rosters?

I accept that I am possibly in the minority but I'm telling it straight from my viewpoint. An INFORMED FIRST HAND viewpoint! Six years at Easy BTW.

That is why I object to NSF posts.I have NO problem with a Ryanair pilot being pissed off and telling everyone about it, plenty do.

Terms may be the same in Easyjet but as with most airlines conditions can vary greatly with type and base, rank etc.They also vary over time so a pilot who thinks everything is great could easily be looking for another job in six months. Same with Ryanair.

I don't like Ryanairs approach to many things but from a selfish point of view I am pretty much left alone to fly very well maintained new a/c. My rosters, although hard work some weeks get changed very occasionally and normally for reasons that are obvious.I take home over 5k a month on average.The line operation is to a good standard and I carry the same fuel I did at easyjet.(Comparing with a number of well respected former employers including Britannia)For me the most important aspect is that I see my family every day- even if it is for a relatively short while.

That having been said I take each day at a time here and I have the experience and type ratings to move quite easily if needs be. BTW the 5/4 has been brilliant thanks and if the company decide for whatever reasons to change my lifestyle I'll consider my options- simple as that!

Selfish perhaps but that's the bed we pilots have made for ourselves and anyone thinking otherwise is simply deluded.

[Monarch Man]

Nicetouch,

As I said, its horses for courses, we are all individuals and we all have our our own personal sensibilities in relation to terms and conditions:ok:

As for my own opinions well......I firmly believe a workplace should be an environment where mutual respect exists, there needs to be a clear and defined direction for the workforce, with clear and defined roles and responsibilities. I also consider that all those key values need to come from the top..in equal proportions. Clearly in MOL's case with regards to his own personality, as well as several of his flight Ops management team this is not the case (as the recent court case has highlighted). So on balance for me RYR is not a place I would wish to work.

EZY, again for many of the same reasons, has become a workplace that many if given the choice would choose to go elsewhere. The difference I can presently see (as NSF pointed out) is that AH seems to be willing to listen to what the troops on the ground have got to say. I think its probably accurate to say that in this regard the jury is still out on how EZY will evolve under new leadership, there does still exist a cadre of Rays' appointee's floating around orangeland management circles, they will need to be dealt with at some point.

On balance neither place is for me (and going back to the original threads question) I cant see that the turnover of staff will reduce anytime soon.

By definition neither place should be considered career airlines yet:ok:

[captjns]

In the scheme of things… isn’t it safe to assume that both carriers are just stepping stones for the majority of pilots looking to fly with KLM, Virgin, Emirates, BA… etc? So what difference does it make which airline’s jet a pilot chooses to strap a jet to his back to? Bottom line is before a new budding airman goes to a big carrier, he has to build up time. And that’s where RYR, EZ, Globespan, fill a need. Working conditions at any LCC isn’t the greatest. From what I can see on other threads, life at the larger carriers isn’t a bed of roses either. The new guy will just have to be an educated consumer, so to say, to see which LCC in his eyes will be less abusive, and provide the best pay, and QOL.

If one is so unhappy at their present carriers, be it EZ or RYR, move on and get on with one’s life… that’s it. They can’t, and aren’t going to change the ethos’ of the management team.

[Aloue]

Stan Woolley there is no need to apologise for anything other than your apparent inability to either read or, possibly, to correctly infer from what you have read. Alternatively, it may have something to do with the "me" tone to your post and the "us" tone to mine:
but from a selfish point of view ...
Selfish perhaps ...

[Stan Woolley]

You're right, pray for me would you.

[Pomo1]

HI

Im interested in working with easy jet.
What is the GROSS pay including everything for a F/o with easy?

thanks

[f/spninx]

I am one of dozens of pilots who have worked for easyjet and now work for Ryanair. The reason is simple
STABLE ROSTER
£5000+ a month
5 on 4 off
Prehaps a Captain that has left Ryanair to join easy could reply?

[Banzai Eagle]

Nice + Stan

This debate seems to sum up the EZY / RYR CEO's
AH sounds like NSF - you sound like MOL

At this time turnover from EZY would suggest that RYR was the place to be, at this time I would go for RYR based on 5/4/5/4 alone.
If EZY moved to 5/4 then I would prefer EZY because of the Management style, see previous messages.
In order for EZY to align to RYR type rosters CAP371 would have to go out the window, in theory possible now that EU FTL is on its way. A level playing field.

Any DEC positions available at NEMA ??

[the grim repa]

there is no 5 on 4 off at ryanair.has anyone been reading what is going on.

[God Loves a Flyer]

All new pilots join Fr on 5-4. That's a fact. Anybody who tells you otherwise or says "it's not really 5-4" is delusional.

[HundredPercentPlease]

All new pilots join Fr on 5-4. That's a fact. Anybody who tells you otherwise or says "it's not really 5-4" is delusional.

Quick question about this, GLAF: how many days a year would I have to work for the company, where those days are defined as "days off" in the 5-4 pattern? I know I'd have to do sims, positioning, ground training, flying if the company needed me and so on, but how many days total?

TIA,

[Ibanez]

ROSTER - 5 on 4 off:
1. 5 on 4 off - fixed between 1st April and 31st December.
2. 5 on 3 off - may be rostered four times between 1st January and 31st March.
3. The roster pattern is achieved through the granting of 14 additional days off and pre-allocation of 12 annual leave days.
PRODUCTIVITY
1. Should the flying profile of a base change as to render the agreement demonstrably less productive then the roster pattern may revert to 5 on 3 off with 5 on 2 off six times per annum.
2. If individual productivity is demonstrably affected in any quarter, this may be recovered on an individual basis in the following quarter by reversion to 5 on 3 off.
3. Command and other non-recurrent training will be rostered on the basis of 5 on 2 off.
If Ryanair is forced to recognise any pilot trade union or association, or if there is any industrial action of any kind, then the roster will revert to 5 on 3 off with 5 on 2 off six times per annum.
The agreement is not as simple as just 5 on 4 off...

[midfieldgeneral]

Are there still a clauses (with FR) that if

1. A new aircraft arrives at a base back to 5-3
2. Too many resignations back to 5-3
3 Collective sickness above 1.9% back to 5-3
4 Average bock time at base below 6.5% back to 5-3
AND 22 others if I remember right

The guys on 5-4 have had it good so far but with 30 aircraft being deliverd between September and March and a crew a week leaving I will be interested to see if they stick to their "agreement" from September on.

[the grim repa]

well god loves a flyer,i must be dillusional then.from what i can see,it is a 5 on 4 off,5on 3 off,5 on 2 off,give up your annual leave,do your reccurrent training and sims on days off e.t.c roster pattern.5 on 3 off is great for projecting our roster ahead.you enjoy your "5/4".
all new pilots are forced to take the "5/4" roster because it benefits the company,it is so riddled with clauses.i would list all the clauses but there are so many i would be here all day.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Stan Woolley - You left easyJet because you were hacked off and went to Ryanair. That is your perogative, but just remember that the easyJet you worked for is not the one that exists now. It is not perfect and I have never pretented it is, but there is increasingly a huge amount going for it. Listening to you and your loathing of easyJet is rather akin to listening to the ex-Dan Dare guys who can never let it go. I genuinely wish you well at Ryanair, but I also hope that you will not be somehow trapped in a time-warp of believing easyJet is somehow destined never to be anything other than what you experienced. Companies do move on and we are evolving all the time. I am unashamedly glad to be part of it and will do everything in my power to make it work. At the end of the day, your particular beef with easyJet is your problem. In the meantime those that have remained are working hard through a strong BALPA and a very good CEO to make this a company worth working for. I am sorry that was not your experience - but it is increasingly the experience of many at easyJet now.

Nice Touch - what can I say? Try and review what you write before you post and save yourself further embarrassment. Learn some manners mate, learn about life and well....just learn anything you can.

Studi - Ther new rostering period is a 21-week cycle consisting of 5/4/5/3 for 17 weeks and a 4-week random rostering period (the specific 4 weeks are known long in advance). The 28-day period is guaranteed to contain at least 10 days off and finish on 3 days off to in order to transition back to the normal pattern. There is a new £50 payment for any late roster changes (ie any change within 48 hours making start or finish time vary by 2 hours or more). There is no concept of doing sims or anything else in your days off and once allocated no one can touch them. Incidentally, this is only an interim agreement and I think there is a definite chance in the next year or so of 5/4/5/4 for everyone and 4/4 at some bases, but not all. That is all up for grabs but there are real signs of us moving in the right direction. The other thing worth mentioning is that I hardly ever do 5 earlies on the trot - it does happen but once in while, but once you hit max hours that is your lot. More critically, we are also limited to 1880 hours per annum duty, which equates to 40 hours per week averaged out over the working year. That is not bad at all, although the hours are obviously pretty anti-social!

Regarding your question on leave, it is allocated in 5 day blocks (there is a concept of Guaranteed Days Off or 'GDOs' but for the purpose of the discussion just ignore them!). In its simplest form you get the wrap around days off as well. So if you use 10 days leave to get a couple of weeks off you get 3-5-4-5-3 days - ie 20 consecutive days off if that makes sense. You just go onto the computer and request the days you fancy by selecting them off the internet. Leave is actually allocated according to a complex formula which gives you points depending on what you did the previous year. You are given a base positon, ie captain no 35 out of 150 at Luton or whatever, and that gives you a feel for your chances of success in the bidding war. No 1 gets his first choices before anyone else and so on down to the bottom. I got all the leave I asked for this year and was about a third down the list, but not everyone did. In the past, leave allocation was a ridiculous shambles that we should never have had - nonetheless we now have the semblance of a working system.

The only criticism I have is that, unlike just about every company in the world, easyJet have decided to give new joiners priority over existing employees. Basically a new joiners is put in half way into the leave bidding machine. That may be great when you arrive, but it is extremely frustrating and unjust for pilots who may have 10 years' service with easyJet and find a new guy getting priority. I hope that particular failing will be addressed soon.

Anyway, that is how it is - for better or worse!

[Stan Woolley]

Sorry Norman the point is that I had a beef with easyjet because when I worked for them for nearly six years they were pretty awful much of the time, I think you'll find many hundreds of guys who left for the same reasons!They are still leaving.

I did not leave easy to go directly to Ryanair btw.

You constantly post about and appear to have a beef with Ryanair when you don't even work for them and never have!

[Nice Touch]

NSF,
OK I am sorry-I have read my posts and they were of a nature that did not promote an informed debate.
I have wasted some time searching your/mine and our history-and I can see why you might not answer my questions without being defensive. I am sorry again.
However your posts disturb me. You do have a very good style and write from what looks like an informed position-and you have won some supporters. But I can not see what is so "informative" about your posts-most of the facts you quote are form easy briefings, what may happen or the last thing to be talked about at a BALPA meeting. The "balanced" element I don't see. You avoid a lot of direct questions or manage them into your style. Most of the information you post is out in the public domain already-and some of your past posts are venomous to say the least-so a little less of the devout morel high ground.
My beef is this. Someone in easyJet is using pprune to work out if Ryan is for them. Your posts don't help or contribute to any informed debate-they can't because you don't know. The few opinions you have sort about Ryanair, and based your educated conclusion on, so confident that you post it as fact on pprune are very unbalanced. Because I can find as many easy pilots to dispute your "facts". So lets drop that now.

No airline will ever change T&Cs to make you feel better about working for them-The bottom line will always dictate-If the arrival of a new CEO improves T&Cs it is coincidental-the change had to happen because that is what the market dictated-any victories you score with BALPA, or whoever, are incremental in nature.
So I hope that we can debate. I will ask you some questions about easyJet that perhaps you could answer.
Roster stability
Roster changes
Leave
90% pay for new joiner/upgrades
DEC
Taxi/unsched. night stops
Training agreements
Money
Lifestyle
Now before my past history gets me shot down. This is a conciliatory post-which does pain me, but is a genuine effort to help a pilot make the correct decision.

The new and improved Nice Touch

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

My roster is pretty stable, any changes are usually several days in advance and can be for the better or for the worse.

I've had no problem getting the leave I needed and getting it changed.

90% for the first 6 months sucks but its the way it is. DEC is happening but every single SFO with the hours does get an assessment as there are enough new commands to promote them all.

Taxis can be rubbish but are supposed to be Hallmark. I've had a dodgy old mondeo and the next week a spanking new E Class. Hotels are pretty rubbish but again, are supposed to have aircon etc and meet a minimum standard. I spent 10 nights last year in hotels for the company so not a massive issue.

My one unscheduled nightstop in nearly 6 years saw us in the Holiday Inn in Valencia which was quite nice.

Training agreements - don't understand?

Money sees about £4800 in the bank every month with an extra £4000 bonus each year to celebrate me joining.. so you could call that about £5100 a month.

Lifestyle I like. 20 min commute to work, 2 mins from car park to crewroom, 4 mins to jet, startup, go do 10 hours of work, be home 40 mins after parking brake on. Always in my own bed between ten past midnight and half past four. More usually the alarm clock is set for 05.15 and I get home about 23.40. Average about 7 evenings a month on Lates and other than that its Dinner with my wife every evening and walk the dog. Not exactly running around Joey Bananas with my hair on fire with 15 hosties but then that wouldn't suit me.

The grass may be greener elsewhere but its not obvious. There are better jobs out there. There are worse jobs out there.

Good luck,

WWW

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Nice Touch - thank you for your conciliatory tone. I think WWW has accurately answered your questions. He is not at my base and there is no doubt that experiences vary from base to base as does the flying pattern. If you are based in Scotland for example you can find yourself doing 6 sector days but that is not the case in Gatwick for example. The downside of Gatwick is the dreaded Car Park X which can add at leat half an hour, and sometimes more, onto your day - every day!

Regarding the issue of posts being informative or balanced, I believe they are accurate. They may, on occasion, be the same as management or BALPA buletins but that does not make them incorrect. Inevitably there will be those who perceive things differently, and outsiders have to weigh the relative opinions of all contributors. You need to know that I am not a manager and have no desire to be one. I do, however, know easyJet quite well and am not afraid to say something is wrong when it is. A review of my previous posts will find that there has been criticism when it is due. Equally, when things are going well I do not feel constrained to find fault in all the company are doing just becuause I could. My own perception of easyJet is that there is a whole lot right and it is getting better. This is not Virgin and if you want an easier life with posh hotels then this is not for you. I love coming home to my wife and kids every night and have only spent about 10 nights in the last 2 years away from home. It suits me in that easyJet offers unrivalled promotion opportunities, work with a wide range of top drawer people, intereting flying in great aircraft and is well paid. If you hate Airbuses and want a lot of night stops then you should be looking elsewhere!

Studi - I did not fully answer your question. You can change your duties with other pilots assuming crewing agree which they usually do. What is not easy to arrange are short notice 'domestic' changes (obviously not emergencies like a family accident or whatever). The bottom line is that on your 5 days working pattern you are expected to work. There is a facility to apply for 'PDOs' which are basically days off in your 5 day patttern which will be subsequently taken back from your days off. The typical use for one of these would be to go to a friend's wedding when you have time to give 6 weeks notice. I hope that helps.

[Speedrock]

All,

I do not post very often, if ever, but I felt I'd like to add my own comments to this thread.

I am an unfortunate employee of the FR Gestapo and have worked for at least two other airlines before (albeit, never EZY). In addition, I have worked for several large companies in my previous career but have never happened upon a more pig-headed, oppressive, vindictive, dishonest and unpleasant bunch than the FR management.

Being relatively new in FR (less than 12 months), it is a sad indictment that most of the flaws (and there are many) with this company are already apparent.

Nuff said.

[alpine blue]

Well was considering applying to Ryan Air, I thought conditions were good, currently F/O on 747, Ryan would at least double my salary and the 5 on 4 off roster is excelent, not sure if they pay what they say on their web site.

[inveritas]

Ryanair at STN - a non 737 rated Direct Entry Captain gets approx GBP£51,000 per annum. The Gross sector pay is approx GBP£40,000 per annum with approx sector pay of Nett after tax of GBP£24,000 per annum. Sector pay can vary on duties.

Ryanair at STN - a non 737 rated Direct Entry High Hours FO gets GBP£28,100 per annum. Sector pay is similar to above.

You get a 5/4 stable roster. 5 earlies, 4 days off, 5 lates and 4 days off.

[the grim repa]

Stable - 5 on,4 off,5 on,3 off,5 on,2 off,sim on days off,medical on days off,recurrent training on days off.

Real stable!

alpine blue and inveritas,will be keeping my eye on you boys!

[Hirsutesme]

Inveritas, your post is , simply put, untrue.

I know several Ryanair pilots, and the supposed facts you represent are very far from their experience.

[inveritas]

Hirsutesme - Sir you are wrong. My earlier post is repeated below and is completely correct. PM me your postal address and I will post a Ryanair payslip to you.

For the sake of clarity again - Ryanair at STN - a non 737 rated Direct Entry Captain gets approx GBP£51,000 per annum. The Gross sector pay is approx GBP£40,000 per annum with approx sector pay of Nett after tax of GBP£24,000 per annum. Sector pay can vary on duties.

Ryanair at STN - a non 737 rated Direct Entry High Hours FO gets GBP£28,100 per annum. Sector pay is similar to above.

You get a 5/4 stable roster. 5 earlies, 4 days off, 5 lates and 4 days off.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

In fairness to 'inveritas', I have not the slightest doubt that the figures he has presented here are true. Nor do I doubt for a moment that 'Hursutesme' does indeed know Ryanair pilots who earn nothing like that. The problem is that not everyone is on the same deal - the classic mechanisim of 'divide and conquer'. There are no published figures and it becomes very difficult to organise labour in that environment.

For what it is worth, using inveritas's figures, after 1st October this year a Stansted-based easyJet Captain will be better paid than his Ryanair counterpart. That is the first time that I am aware of that this has been the case - although I am open to correction. It is extremely hard to make direct comparisons due to the various different tax regimes, loyalty bonus's etc but I am looking at it wondering if there would be any financial advantage for a Captain to leave easyJet and go to Ryanair - that once would definitely have been the case but does not appear to be so now. That is not to knock Ryanair, in case all the whiners kick off, but it is nonetheless an interesting observation.