GIBRALTAR

[ORAC]

(Reuters) Shared airport for Gibraltar

Spain, Britain and Gibraltar announced a preliminary agreement on shared use of the British colony’s airport and other practical issues to make life easier for the Rock’s residents and their neighbours.

In a joint communiqué the three parties said that ministers would meet in Spain on September 18 to discuss the deal, which came after more than a year of talks over issues raised by Spain.

Spain hopes that it will eventually be able to start talks on sovereignty.

[HZ123]

The airport has always had its eye on the business chances for greater use for flts serving Spain. The problem is though lack of terminal space but they could ceratinly handle 4-6 aircraft an hour.

[longarm]

No reason why they couldn't build a Spanish terminal across the border. Hardly a long walk!

[mattfalcus]

I wrote the article on Gibraltar airport in the current Airports of the World magazine after a visit and talking to some people "in the know" about what's going on there.

There's great potential for flights from Gibraltar both within Spain and to elsewhere in Europe. The Spanish towns around the Bay (La Linea, Algeciras etc) would welcome this, as it would save a long drive to Malaga. Gibraltar would also boom as an alternative entry point to the Costa del Sol.

But the Spanish government will not allow flights to the airport from anywhere in the EU (excluding the UK) unless the British allow joint control of the airport. It's these talks that are taking place now, and sadly may see Spain getting their own way.

The other contributing factor to the small number of operators at Gibraltar is the pricing put in place by the MOD (who run the airport) - which are 5 times higher than at Malaga. Ryanair have already said they'd like to fly there, but not at those prices.

[chevvron]

Plenty of space for a terminal north of the old RAF Officers Quarters, problem is how would the aircraft get there?

[ORAC]

Do they need too? Could they bus them to the terminal?

[chevvron]

Come to think of it, they could use the old RAF domestic site on the south side, if they could access it past the cemetery

[nivsy]

While there is always a possibility of better flight connections from non UK operators from the rock it should never be forgotten that the airfield is owned by the MoD and shall be open in accordance with the MoD Requirements. While a little flexability may be allowed for profit making commercial operators I just hope that they will appreciate the MoD's position and that they will not whinge when they cannot operate within the schedule requirements that they believe they need to make better aircraft utilisation and naturally higher pax yields. On another note because of the road crossing the active runways - security for any night stoppers will have to be considered.

Also while it is a bit of a problem -significantly at the border if the Spanish are having shall we say an "off day" - the drive to the building site of Malaga Airport is no worse than what many have along the M4 corridor. I can do it within 1 hour 20 mins - quicker than the time expected one needs to stand in the Q for Easy Jet checkin at AGP on a hot summers day/night!

On another note, despite their previous bout of advertising when they proudly proclaimed in newspapers "you wanted it -so you get it" - I refer to BA flying from LHR to GIB - they have dropped the service from October and will continue to use LGW. Thanxs BA for the loyalty on this one which certainly did have good pax loads. Guess the temptation of ops out of East Midlands, Derby International or whatever its called these days and Lulsgate has perhaps removed our service?

A brighter note is that negotiations are continuing with Fly Gib or Gib Fly - who are pressing hard for new start up operations from the rock. Stansted, Bristol and Birmingham, Dublin and or Cork have been citied as destinations. 2 or 3 B737's are expected. If sucessful - and i for one hope it is - will probably mark the pull out in totality of BA and Monarch.


Nivsy.

[jongeman]

Also while it is a bit of a problem -significantly at the border if the Spanish are having shall we say an "off day" - the drive to the building site of Malaga Airport is no worse than what many have along the M4 corridor. I can do it within 1 hour 20 mins....

:= Is that 1 hour 20 mins at the speed limit, or slightly over? It took me more than 2 hours, but then again, I got lost in Marbella trying to avoid a toll.

On another note, despite their previous bout of advertising when they proudly proclaimed in newspapers "you wanted it -so you get it" - I refer to BA flying from LHR to GIB - they have dropped the service from October and will continue to use LGW. Thanxs BA for the loyalty on this one which certainly did have good pax loads.

Thanks too to ZB for dropping my MAN service, which also had good loads. Guess GIB's just too expensive.

[Bumz_Rush]

I have been talking to another operator who would wish to operate scheduled services into Gibraltar, mostly with pax for Spain.

I spoke to medium level contacts in GIB, and was told in no uncertain terms that without the correct UK visa, these pax would not be allowed into Gibraltar airport, even if there "escorted " destination was Spain.

So how will a joint use airport work if the Gib "brit" authorities will not permit Schengen traffic into the airport.

I am back in Gib this week to discuss in more detail, lest hope the trip is not wasted.

Bumz

[chevvron]

Reminds me of a case I encountered in '86 (told to me by my holiday rep who was also their rep). A family of US citizens arrived (on the same flight as me) with NATO ID cards but no passports; they were sent back to the UK, as you need a passport to enter Gib.
Really, some agreement should be worked out whereby passengers bound for La Linea exit/check in by a separate gate on the Spanish side of the border; it's not far after all and you could easily build a secure bridge to access it.

[Iron Duke]

It seems to me that if a mature level of political cooperation existed, then every party in the local area could benefit massively from an improved airport in Gib ... British and Spanish.
I lived in Gibraltar many moons ago and loved the place. With its proximity to Africa and the Costa del Sol, and its good weather I feel our "European family" should raise its game and invest more in the whole area .. starting by making it easier to get to !

[nivsy]

In answering the question of Bumz Rush - doing business in Gibraltar is sometimes laboured and somewhat time consuming on many aspects. You may feel that you are often hitting your head against that brick wall but usually if a task is worth persuing the end result can be favourable.:ugh: Put it down to a challenge!!

The issues raised on passport control and clearance through Gibraltar is not an easy one to answer. Politically the government here must be seen to be "doing the right thing" or it can be a vote loser - and any airport agreement is naturally big news.

I suppose it could be agrued that Gib is Brit controlled and therefore subject to the same regulations of any nationals travelling through effectively Brit territory that need a visa to entry then so be it. Holders of European passports will have no problems. Further, although I have no facts and figures, no doubt Spain would be verywaryof the possibility of ibcreasing illegal immigrants through the channel of Gibraltar Airport - albeit any entry through Gibraltar followed by a quick border crossing in Spain is always met by the customery road side - frontier checks of our Spanish neighbours.

But do tell - who is the "other operator"??
:confused:

Nivsy

[madmax100]

UK AVIATION EXPERT HELPS GIB BASED AIRLINE VENTURE

A leading aviation lawyer who helped set up easyJet 10 years ago is now advising local company OEM International on its plans to launch a Gibraltar-based airline. OEM is well-advanced in negotiations to set up FlyGibraltar, which will use the Rock as its hub for flights to various destinations in the UK and Ireland.


The company has retained the services of Hugh O’Donovan, an aviation specialist with Quadrant Chambers in London.
Mr O’Donovan, a highly-regarded lawyer who has worked across all areas of aviation law, is guiding OEM through the process of obtaining the necessary operating permits from the Civil Aviation Authority, the UK’s airline regulator.
He is working alongside the company’s Gibraltar management team, led by Darren McComb, and its local lawyer, Hassans partner Fabian Picardo.
Assuming all the necessary paperwork is in place, FlyGibraltar hopes to begin operations by the spring of 2007.
It will use chartered passenger planes that will start and end their flights in Gibraltar, spending the night on the tarmac here.
The company has already reached an understanding with the Ministry of Defence, which operates the local runway, on the thorny issue of runway fees.
The MoD had already indicated to existing carriers that an increase in traffic at the airport would help keep down the cost of running services to Gibraltar.
The launch of a local airline will provide a positive economic boost for Gibraltar, not just in terms of larger passenger throughput but also in terms of direct job creation.
FlyGibraltar will probably step into the market gap left after Monarch ceased its flights to the north of the UK this month.
Although the local airline intends to focus on the UK and Ireland for its launch services, longer term plans could include services to other destinations in Europe and possibly even north Africa.
OEM is expected to make a formal announcement on its airline venture within the next few weeks.

[chevvron]

Is there still an air link to Tangier?

[nivsy]

No air link to Tangier exists...altho 25 minutes down the road in spain there is around 40 ferries a day!

[chevvron]

Used to be done by Viscount, then Trislander. The Viscount was always full when I used it; wonder why it folded?

[Selfloading]

Well the poor old Viscount came to an unfortunate end after running off the runway at Tangier, and after the border opened a lot of Morrocans lost their jobs and returned to Morroco, and it was also cheaper for those wishing to travel across the straights to cross over to Spain and get the ferry.

[malagajohn]

Was Tangier - Gibraltar the shortest intercontinental flight ?

[man friday]

its 38miles as the crow flies from gibs runway to tangiers, think that used to be the shortest scheduled international/inter continental flight

[jabird]

Air Caraibes had a weekly flight between SXM and SFG - listed as being just 4 miles. Not sure if different sides of the same (albeit divided) island would really count as international, but SXM to AXA (operated by Winair) is just 14 miles.

[Bumz_Rush]

The main operator that I have been working with wanted to operate Moscow-Gibraltar.....

I copy your head banging, been doing that all this week, but too hot to get too excited about it...This head was being banged trying to get Port Authority for the operation of a small commercial passenger vessel.....we must comply with the same rules as the launch that supplies the parked off shore tankers.....emergency signs that if you stuck them all together you would have a very safe and secure hull....

Back to the subject the news re the "LCC" from Gib is good news, lets hope it evolves.

Off to the airport to catch the MON back to LTN.....

Bumz

[Bumz_Rush]

An epic, BA and MON diverted to AGP. BA very very professional. Monarch fiasco.
Apart from mot telling the pax the truth, re bussing, customs at the border, the "delay catering" a packet of chease and onion chrisps and a small bottle of water", the bus (s) condition, inc missing safety equipment, and seats held together with wire.
Arrival at AGP, with no information, security reluctant to take GIB boarding passes, the wait at the gate, for the first bus load, they sat outside for 20 mins.
Two lost pax, crew not certain re the bags loaded/ pax loaded, the lack of coordination between handling agents, and crew.
The catering had been on board, for perhaps 10 hours, without (I suspect) suitable stowage. Eventually the problems resolved, Captain advises that we must be in the air within 7 mins otherwise out of hours, (even after discretion).
How would AGP coped with full 757, and crew for holel, etc. The aircraft was scheduled to operate ex LTN very early next morning.
We landed LTN 05h30, instead of 22h30. a 7 hour delay.
This was a repeat of the previous day, when fog in GIB caused similar delays.

A new company is scheduled to offer ex GIB flights, so how will the run down Monarch fights survive.

Bumz

[Bumz_Rush]

http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/august_2006/boeing_757_2t7__g_mone.cfm

The link to the AAIB report.

Also reported in the local rag.

Interesting reading, my main observation is the lack of CVR. as the DIV would overwrite the 30 mins duration.

I was a pax on this flight.


Bumz