JETSTAR EBA - Voting opens today

[OldBoiler]

So guys and gals, whats the general concensus out there about this EBA? Do you all realise that we have lost effectively 3% from them not backdating the EBA to the finish of the old one! The new EBA starts on the 1/7/06 and not 24/7/05, so no backpay, 3% gone and an $800.00 "bonus payment" (ie bribe!) if it gets voted in.

Anyone got any ideas/suggestions or comments?:ugh:

[Mr Seatback 2]

They don't have to backdate from the old EBA, or provide backpay. Not in the law.

Since we voted down the last one (where backpay WAS provided), there's no obligation for Jetstar (or indeed, any company) to give backpay.

The $800 is an incentive for those who wish to vote 'Yes'. Not too bad a deal if you're new, which for the last 200 or so recruits, is not a bad thing!

Most of the feedback I'm getting is good. At least there's a BOC allowance now.

[funkytownflighty]

Dont think the EBA is gunna get much better than this?

Lets all bend over and you know the rest!!!

[Mr Seatback 2]

I suppose you'd prefer us to be on individual contracts? Because they'd be INFINITELY better than an EBA, wouldn't they?! :rolleyes:

[jetstarFA]

Blah blah blah:}
Jetstar will get out of me what they give........NOTHING :D :D

[Ozzy747]

do any of you guys have a clue of what the csm base wage for jetstar international is going to be???

also what is the current csm base for domestic???

[Mr Seatback 2]

Domestic CM wage is $46K p.a.

As for International...no one knows for sure yet.

[OldBoiler]

If the EBA is voted down current crew will stay on the current EBA. You can not be forced onto an individual contract unless you sign it, that is the law. Personally I dont want to work 11hr days and give up my 6 certificate free URTI days, so I'm happy to stay where I am, and so are quite a few crew who I have spoken to.

And as for managements "threat" that they will introduce individual contracts should this be voted down, all I have to say about that is what a load of :mad: . Lets see them go ahead and try it. They cant even manage a group of cabin crew on the same collective agreement at the moment. How do they think they'll manage one group on an EBA with a 9.5hr limit and one group on an 11hr AWA? Simple answer.....THEY CAN'T AND WONT BE ABLE TO! Dont let them fool you. Oh......and havent they been so sickly sweet nice this time around with their caring, individual and friendly phone call reminders...."now don't forget to vote will you."

It just makes me want to puke:yuk:

[Mr Seatback 2]

Be careful what you wish for, OldBoiler

The Qantas Group (when it suits) will not hesitate to use everything in its' power to ensure we all work for less under AWAs. Sure, it's a logisitical nightmare...but nothing a few additional HR staffers couldn't fix.

For the record, Short Haul have to provide certs for all their URTI's now too. And 11 hr days are the norm in this, and other airlines (SYD-PER-SYD return...aaaah, the old AN167...meeeeeeemories) :}

[Mr Seatback 2]

Here's the latest FAAA Newsletter on the subject...

"FAAA NEWSLETTER

FLIGHT ATTENDANTS' ASSOCIATION OF AUSTRALIA

(Domestic/Regional Division)

24 July, 2006 JET18-06

Attention All Jetstar Flight Attendants’

PROPOSED WORKPLACE AGREEMENT (EBA)

As members would be aware, your Association representatives concluded their Workplace Agreement (previously known as an Enterprise Bargaining Agreement) road shows on Friday 21 July, 2006 in Sydney.

Having attended all Jetstar bases and addressing as many flight attendants as were available at the time, your Association takes this opportunity to formally recommend the Agreement and to also address the concerns, questions and rumours that were put before your representatives over the last 10 days.

Why is the Association recommending crew vote yes ?

Very simply, your Association wants flight attendants to stay collective over the next three years under a Workplace Agreement with improved conditions. By staying together collectively, regulated under the same terms and conditions of employment, crew are in a better position to negotiate for renewed conditions in three years time.

Further, following the initial NO vote in March of this year, the FAAA surveyed all Jetstar flight attendants to determine what was required to make it a YES vote. Resoundingly the feedback from this survey was for payment on the back of the clock duties, followed by capping of the back of the clock duties. The proposed Agreement offers both of these things to crew.

What happens if another NO vote is returned ?

The Company have made their position clear in advising that if this Agreement is not accepted by crew, a further round of negotiations will not take place and any future employment into the Company will be on Australian Workplace Agreement (AWA or individual contacts). All current crew would stay on their current EBA until they either resigned from the Company, or until they voluntarily took up the offer of an individual contract to achieve a pay increase.

While the Associations members would also have options available including protected industrial action in support of their claims and this can certainly be considered, it is our strong recommendation that you vote yes for the Agreement regardless of what maybe available to any party should the majority not vote for the Agreement.

The Company has to provide C.P.I. increases to crew every year anyway if the vote is NO ?

Absolutely not. Mandatory increases have not been available in this country for 30 years. Your current EBA has provided all of the increases available to crew, with the last one being on 24 July, 2004. There is no requirement for any employer to provide their employees with a pay increase, in fact the new legislation (Work Choices) makes it readily available for employers with employees on AWA’s to not only reduce their pay, but increase their hours at the same time, through renewal of their AWA.

What is the $800.00 for ?

All crew are aware that the entitlement to back pay from 24 July, 2005 was only available if the initial vote in March had crew approved the original Agreement. Your Association negotiated the $800.00 for all crew in recognition that Jetstar flight attendants had not received any type of pay increase since 24 July 2004. It should be seen for what it is. A lump sum payment, negotiated by your Association to (part way) recognise the two year period, Jetstar crew have gone without an increase in pay and recognition of your hard work.

Why are the new flight attendants receiving the $800.00 when they’ve only just arrived into the Company ?

Your Association firmly believes in collective Agreements. Therefore, in representing all flight attendants, we will wherever possible ensure that there are no differences between crew. The settlement on the $800.00 for all flight attendants was the preferred approach by your Association and the company.

What is the difference between the 9:45 hour day and the up to 11 hour day ?

The 9:45 hours is simply a 15 minute extension to your current 9:30hours day. Meaning you can operate as many sectors as can be planned within 9:45 hours. Any duty in excess of 9:45 and up to 11 hours must be capped at 4 sectors (5 with a pax leg).

Can I be rostered back to back with 11 hour duties ?

No you cannot be rostered 11 hour duties on consecutive days. Any rostered duty in excess of 9:45 requires 14 hours home base rest and there are only 24 hours in a day !!

Can the monthly cap of 140 be changed throughout the life of the Agreement ?

No. If the Agreement is accepted by crew with a majority of yes votes, it will stay in place until 30 June, 2009. The only way anything in the document can be changed would be to vary it, which would require another vote of Jetstar flight attendants to approve the change.

BASE YOUR VOTE ON WHAT’S BEST FOR YOUR FUTURE

Your Association representatives were approached by crew in every base who had lots of ongoing employment issues, that were understandably upsetting to the individual and contributing to a negative attitude to the Agreement. Some of these issues included but were not limited to:

· not receiving the correct pay and not being able to find anyone to help or to even return their calls

· not being able to ever, regardless of their rotation in the system, achieve any roster requests

· not yet received access or a password to the new KIOSK system

· not been paid correctly for dispensations

· not being given the appropriate rest or hours credit for duties as a result of crewing advice

· being told that dispensation had been given however no number, Association representative or details of the payment/rest provisions being provided

· brand new flight attendants not being paid overnight allowances from 6 weeks ago when completing their EP’s in Brisbane; and the list goes on

While we understand that these issues are of paramount importance and we do not for one minute want to dilute that, what all flight attendants should note is that the proposed collective Agreement contains provisions to deal with your day to day issues / concerns. This is extremely important when the new legislation (Work Choices) has very limited access to an independent when disputes may arise over conditions of employment.

You are being asked to vote on your future as a collective and as such we urge you all to vote yes, if for no other reason than to protect yourselves, your current and your future colleagues for the next three years.


This newsletter was written and authorised by Dannielle Morgan, National Industrial Officer, for and on behalf of the FAAA Jetstar Team

[jetstarFA]

3/4's of most recent JQ flight attendants have left a very lucrative career as Deputy Assistant Duty Manager in charge of till receipts at Sportsgirl to wear a pretty uniform and get picked up by cute boys going to the Gold Coast for Davo's bucks party....:}

The EBA will go thru and we will all whinge until the next negotiation in 3 years time....to which my pants will be removed for another rodgering by my management team.

There is no support from crew. The union don't care. Management or lack there of....:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:
The circle just continues.....:yuk:

There is NO UNITY....NONE....

The Union have no need to fight for us
The Newbies just scored $800
The Oldies are getting pregnant just before part time comes around.
The rest of us just suffocate in the anesthetic of Jetstar life....

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I am having a Dali-esque day ala Virginia Wolff

[Mr Seatback 2]

"The Oldies are getting pregnant just before part time comes around."

In my case, jetstarFA, that would give me the immaculate conception! :}

[ditzyboy]

The rest of us just suffocate in the anesthetic of Jetstar life....

I have NEVER heard it said better... Well done, jetstarFA! :D :D :D

In the end it was total apathy that got me through each day.

Jetstar certainly seems keen to bring new lows to the aviation industry. What a hallmark... It is mind-boggling, but certainly no surprise. :yuk:

Guys, may I suggest that Mr Seatback is right. When needed Jetstar can get all the resources in the world. They are scabby when it suits but do not think they won't roll out the 'big guns' when required - no expense spared (they are, after all, a part of the QF Group). I would certainly expect them to do whatever it takes to administer as many agreements as required. And squeeze out any of you who do not conform to they new conditions.

As an example just look at the situation with Contract A, B and now, C casuals at Short Haul. Not that there is many Contract A's - most got squeezed out by allocating them work last so they were pressured to resign or move over to Contract B. The same process of (un)natural selection will happen to those now on Contract B. My point is Jetstar (and Qantas) will do anything it takes to get their way.

So do not underestimate what these thugs are capable of. They may come across as fools but they do have the upper hand - power is a very dangerous thing. Any collective agreement at this point seems attractive to what these people are capable. Protection of what you have and maintaining your rights as a collective group seems the most important agenda to me under these harsh industrial conditions.

Remember that the EBA will be voted in anyway. The $800 incentive is well over what the bulk of Jetstar's recruits earned in a fortnight before becoming flight attendants. Sportsgirl, Maccas... It may be well less than what we cleared in a week at QantasLink but most Jetstar FAs haven't come from that. They have no sense of the spiralling conditions and how much they are being taken for a ride.

[ratstej]

Well well well… your hearing more and more about it, seems like JQ Flighties are prepared to Sack Ms. Morgan and the trash they call a Union. Some crew have actually been approaching other unions for representation. I say watch this space!

PS: if it does happen I'm sure we'll see Ms. Morgan take her place in JQ Head office somewhere as planned sooner than she'd thought.

[jetstarFA]

I have already spoken to them and will join.......

They are very interested in JQ at the moment

[Mr Seatback 2]

Well well well

Don't this make interesting reading...

"seems like JQ Flighties are prepared to Sack Ms. Morgan and the trash they call a Union"

The JQ Flighties I imagine you're referring to couldn't prepare a cart without screaming for an allowance, let alone sack industrial staff. :rolleyes:

If the crew took more interest in the legislation that's affecting them, rather than looking for people to blame, then perhaps they might get closer to the problem. Then again, we are talking about crew who vote Liberal cause 'John Howard seems like a nice guy'.

As usual, with every EBA in this company, there's an awful lot of finger pointing and nastiness about. I can't wait till it's over...once it is, we'll return to the same old complacency that crew continually show for their own, and other crews, employment. Unless of course, it's voted down...then we're all TRULY SCREWED.

Fact of that matter is, division and disunity will ruin us quicker than anything else.

A couple of quick questions before I pass out...

Re: Trash...is that the collective term for the delegates too?

Re: Joining the TWU...FA's have been there before, and it all ended in tears.

[lfdlfp]

Will Jetstar cabin crew retain the Progression Agreement? Common sense would suggest you won't since Jetstar is growing and Qantas is shrinking but strange things happen in this industry.:rolleyes:

[Mr Seatback 2]

Jetstar Domestic Cabin Crew retain the Career Progression Agreement under the EBA. Under an AWA, who knows? Doubtful, as the CPA is an industrial agreement between Qantas and the FAAA.

Jetstar International Cabin Crew will not have any access to Career Progression to Qantas Short Haul.

Qantas Short Haul are expanding through Regional Flying, as is Jetstar. Since 2004, two intakes of Jetstar crew have transferred across to Qantas Short Haul.

[ricciricardo]

I took the initiative of casting my vote on opening day, since then I have had 3 calls on Mob, 1 text, 1 call on home line and 1 on each of my emails (2) from Mgmt to remind me to vote, anyone else? I'm almost expecting someone to pop out from behind a tree!!!!!!

[jetstarFA]

I had someone offer to take me to an amusement park and buy me fairy floss as long as I voted.

I changed my number 3 times this week

[OldBoiler]

I too have had WAY too many phone calls, text messages, emails, morse codes, carrier pigeons, sky sign writers, telex's, faxes, telegrams, wandering minstrels, smoke signals, and mental telepathy brainwashing reminding me to vote that its driving me crazy:*

I even had a dream that I opened my cereal box and out popped a leprechaun with a "how to vote" card. Oh...sorry......I think that was a nightmare actually:eek:

Anyway, I think its only fair that I should be entitled to at least vote the same number of times that its taken them to remind me, and we know what that would mean:yuk:

[airbusthreetwenty]

hahaha... Now I try not to allude to who I am on these forums... but I feel I need to in this instance.

I'm not a flight attendant and even I have had a reminder email to vote.

:ugh::rolleyes:

[OnTimeArrival]

Action speaks truer/louder than words.


I email and voice issues to both faaa and management. I go through the correct channels (whether it be phone calls or reports) and back up with statements of incidents and qualify with constructive suggestions.
I do not have any personal bias to any reps of either management or faaa, none are personal friends, I work to my best ability and hope that I will be supported and that I will be safe.

The last thread was closed ..... - My point......rarely do I hear back from either faaa or management.
It's not about us...the picture is too big.... and too profitable.

[sheet]

Gee Ditzyboy, you certainly have changed youe tune since the last vote when yoiu advises a no vote,what has changed?

[sheet]

Ditzyboy,
My how you have changed your tune since the last vote when you advised all to vote NO.

[ShesGreatintheGalley]

isnt 'spamming' illegal?
why are they SO desperate to get us to vote? like, i know that its vital that the company show their support/non support for the idea but why are management SO committed to making sure that we vote?

methinks that this international thing, and some domestic flying is hanging in the balance of a positive EBA vote - they are probably royally screwed if it dosent go through.

[jetstarFA]

You are SO right Shesinthegalley...

They like to believe that they are in control..... But they are some very scared management (use that term loosely) types who will be up the creek if it all doesn't go to plan..........:} :}

[bubblygirl]

I am a bit confused by the whole thing. Initially I Was under the impression to vote NO, now after talking wit crew from different bases, I am getting told that they are voting YES. Help, I want to have a say but am so confused and am newish to the company. 6 months:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

:confused:

[Mr Seatback 2]

All academic now...77% voted yes.

[OnTimeArrival]

????

Probably too late now.

If you are new to flying or not, understand the conditions you vote for.
If you have doubts, vote accordingly, not what you think the 'others' want you to.
It's clear if you talk to someone voting 'no', they are clear on what they have decided, 'yes' voters are only driven by fear.


I agree, it's all about pushing the next stage thru, all about profit and schedule.

It's not about conditions.

Management, faaa = same, same......

[Mr Seatback 2]

"'yes' voters are only driven by fear."

The implication that yes voters can't make a rational decision without being based on fear is just plain stupid. Sorry OTA, but you're wrong to make that generalisation.

I voted yes for a number of reasons, not least of which for the following reasons:
1) Not that this affects me, but the new EBA allows mums-to-be to take 2 years maternity leave, one additional year over the current one. Would we have had this option under an AWA - probably not.
2) The new pay scales (which benefit me, and all the oldies) + 9% over 3 years is a pay increase I - like everyone else - deserves. We haven't had a payrise in 2 years.
3) This industry - especially the Qantas Group - is about survival of the fittest. That's not a statement of fear, that's fact. Sure, it's about the business, but it's also give and take like any EBA...you trade for benefits.
4) There isn't anything in this EBA that hasn't already been done by other airlines in this country, including others under the QF Group banner.

It amazes me that with each EBA at this airline, crew want the world, but don't want to trade anything for it. That is - and always has been - the nature of Enterprise Bargaining.

"Management, faaa = same, same......"

Of course they are...which is why the FAAA took the company to the commission for arbitration a couple of months ago. Yeah...that's what 'friends' do to each other.

There is nothing friendly about the WorkChoices legislation or AWAs. If fact, for you, masquerades as fear, then so be it.

[jetstarFA]

One small step for man -

One giant kick up the cake hole for JQ Cabin Crew.

The main thing is that we have all be fooled and taken for a ride..... Congratulations to the yes voters (including Mr Seatback):}

9% over 3 years.... I'll be able to retire and live off the interest....:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

Just means that 77% of the crew at Jetstar will no longer be whinging about conditions and pay anymore....... AND 110 smug faces

[Mr Seatback 2]

Ok...I just can't resist...

At the risk of asking an open question of the No voters...

What would you deem to be the perfect EBA (in a perfect world)?

Given that we got new increments as well as the 9% over 3 years, I'd be curious to know where else we could have got more money from - given that the QF Group haven't given any of the other flying units new increments, I'm wildly curious...

"Just means that 77% of the crew at Jetstar will no longer be whinging about conditions and pay anymore"

You're kidding right? :hmm:

[ditzyboy]

sheet -

I get two posts that mean the same thing but worded differently. Wow.

Why vote yes? (Not that I would have. There is enough 18 year-old ex Priceline cashiers at Jetstar to ensure that managment's phone and email harrasment campaign is followed.) The repercussions of the EBA being voted down would be disasterous. Jetstar management get away with too much victimisation and harrasment as it is. Look at how such loyal and hardworking employees are treated at Jetstar. Just imagine what would happen in a world of AWAs.

Please do not mistake my last post as support for Jetstar or its management. A collective agreement is about the last thing that Jetstar flight attendants haven't had raped from them by the thugs in Bourke Street and union with seemingly diminshing power. It offers what little protection is available under these harsh new laws - which by the way - were not around when the EBA was voted down.

I would have voted NO, by the way. Except this time the fools didn't send me voting details like they did last time, despite having resigned. My oh my, management must have been desperate - with all of the emails and phone calls. Maybe that is recognition the EBA is substandard and not worth half of the quality effort Jetstar's loyal employees have given over the years. :D

So Sheet, are you management? Or aspiring to be? Either way you need not be so intimidating toward me. I would be embarrased to support your cause. You wouldn't have half a clue about the effort put in by cabin crew at Impulse or QantasLink. You are obviously ignorant in that regard. The continual degradation of condtions and bullying tactics of Jetstar managment are appalling. You palm off myself and the many that share my opinion as being negative and against change. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are also more qualified to be making such statements, having been working at the company far longer than you.

Jetstar flight attendants ARE being taken advantage of. They DO deserve so much more. No amount of propaganda that comes from your mouth can change that. Fact is most Jetstar flight attendants are looking for a way out and feel they are being mistreated. I challange you to find an argument that suggests otherwise.

So go act up as CM, work as many days off as you can and operate outside the agreement as much as you like. At the end of the day when management are through with you your bottom will be just as sore as the next person's.

[OldBoiler]

Oh......Yay:{

A yes vote, how very suprising........NOT!:yuk:

Well I hope you all enjoy your $800 bribe payment, cause you'll need to spend it on vitamin supplements just to cope with our 11hr days and BOC duties. Oh thats right, there's also $80 BOC allowance. Well that will go on a supply of diazepam because your body clock will be so f:mad:d up from the 7 of those we can do a month!:zzz:

If I hear a single FA complain about how tired they are after another 11hr day, my first question will be......"and how did you vote in the EBA?" Bet there wont be many crew owning up to a "YES" vote in 6 months time:ugh:

It truly is a sad day:{

[airbusthreetwenty]

Can someone explain the $800 payment to me?

[Mr Seatback 2]

It's like backpay...but not.

[OnTimeArrival]

That's why the eba went thru...

My point entirely....

[ditzyboy]

How many people voted? What will the $800 be worth once it is lumped into your normal pay and taxed?

It is so terrible that the courage and unity of the initial NO vote ended in a desperate snatch at survival. Not a desirable situation by any means.

OldBoiler is right in saying there won't be many crew owning up to a YES vote in a few months time once both the reality has kicked in and the $800 has wittled to nothing.

At least you are offered the very basic comforts of right as a collective group under this agreement. I really do think Jetstar would have taken any measure necessary to introduce AWAs and let the rot continue. They seem so keen on becoming the lowest common denominator in aviation employment in the region.

What sort of affect would a strict 'Work to Rule' campaign have at Jetstar at the moment? People like Sheet aside, I am sure it would be an operational nightmare for them.