Wheelchair pax

[aw8565]

First off, I'm trying to make things better.....

I work for Servisair (yeah..... I know). I'm in Ops (Gatwick) and amongst other things process wheelchair requests from the departure messages and put them in the computer so that the relevant departments know what to expect. Ambilift required, walk off or not etc.

Just a couple of queries and a bit of a moan (deserved or not I guess I'll find out)

When pilots call up on the R/T they'll often advise wheelchair requests which may or may not match what we were expecting. As long as we know BEFORE THE FLIGHT IS FINALS, these additional requests should not be a problem. How is this info passed to the pilot? On a pax manifest? Do you page the cabin crew and find out from them? I'm trying to find out why Alicante (for example) say 2 wheelchair walk off pax and the flight deck subsequently call up with 3 wheelchair carry off pax?

To cover ourselves we'll tend to go with what the pilot tells us, so it is important to us on the ground that the info is as accurate as possible. With resources appearing to be stretched ever thinner, it seems a waste to provide services that are not required when they could be used for flights that do.

Now, I know you chaps get busy in the descent and the last thing you want is some twit on the ground asking to confirm your wheelchairs etc. but surely this could be sorted during the cruise?

I have also found that Murphy's Law dictates that the one flight that doesn't call up inbound will be the one flight with wheelchair pax that we knew nothing about. Some Stations are very good about forgetting to mention wheelchair requirements on departure messages. A "late request" for wheelchair assistance and especially an ambilift will mean you sitting on the aircraft for longer than you need to. And of course you'll be on the R/T to me every 6 mins asking where the ambilift is...... :} I don't know about other airports but at Gatwick the company that runs the ambilift is stretched at the best of times with what they're expecting to do so additional last minute requests simply cannot be fulfilled straight away.

Just wondered what any pilot's comments/thoughts/advice was on these comments. Also, and I'm coming to a close now, :zzz: would it be worthwhile me contacting the airlines themselves and trying to produce a simple piece of paper (more paperwork!) with the outlines of wheelchair requests? Some pilots call up with weird and wonderful descriptions despite proper codes being in use, just to make sure the requirements are properly fulfilled once on the ground. And on the back of the bit of paper could be the info we on the ground require in the event of a passenger being taken ill. Just a thought.....?

Cheers, AW

[ETOPS]

aw8565

Good post :ok:

Problem is the flippin passengers. Very often get a call from the Cabin crew to say that an apparently healthy pax, who walked onto the aircraft, now requires a wheelchair and couldn't possibly walk more than a yard or two :ooh:

This request always comes at about 20 miles out !!

Charge these late requests at about $50 and there would be a miraculous healing process .....................;)

[aw8565]

There is a dispatcher at Gatwick nicknamed 'Jesus' for his miraculous ability to make those types walk off the aircraft!

I understand it is not always your fault!

[Getoutofmygalley]

I am a SCCM with easyJet at LGW and one thing I have noticed is that the despatcher at outstations will often say to me "You have 142+1 and 1 WCHR" but upon boarding, the WCHR is clearly a WCHS or WCHC - quite why the dispatcher got it wrong is beyond me, so I always make sure that I correct the information that the flight crew are given, so that you guys can have the correct equipment waiting for me on arrival.

Our policy at easyJet is for the SCCM to confirm with the Captain when we close up the aircraft at the outstation the correct number of pax + infants and WCH pax onboard, this is so that hopefully the pilot will get a chance to relay that info onto you before final descent.

Because outstations do seem to be quite bad at times on passing on assistance information, I have started to say to the dispatcher downroute "Will you be passing on the information regarding my assistance pax to LGW" and if I don't feel very assured by their response, then I will contact my flight crew a couple of times in the cruise just to remind them that assistance will be required.

I just want to relay an experience that I had recently here. I was operating a flight from a Spanish outstation to LGW and the despatcher at the Spanish outstation seemed to be more concerned about trying to sell the crew bottles of Rioja from his little car than the despatching of the aircraft. Anyway, we were boarding pax and 3 pax came onboard and said that they would need assistance at LGW. I asked the pax if they had pre-booked the assistance at check in and they said that they had, and they had been brought over from the terminal building in wheelchairs. The despatcher had made no mention of any assistance pax on the flight so I was quite concerned about a message being sent on the LGW. When the despatcher came back to check everyone was onboard, I queried the assistance pax with him and he seemed to not be aware of any assistance being required, but the PIL clearly stated 2 WCHC + 1 WCHR which he had just handed to me. On closing up the aircraft I said to the Captain "we have 2 WCHC + 1 WCHR pax onboard, can you please radio on ahead to make sure assistance will be there". During the flight one of the assistance pax said to me "Can you make sure assistance is there on arrival, every time I do this route I have to wait ages for it" my response was "Don't worry my love, everything is in place, I made sure the Captain was aware before we left XXX and everything will be there for you". Around about 1 hour before arrival back into LGW I telephoned the Captain again just to make sure he and the FO were ok and I reminded him of the WCH pax, his response was "Yes, I know" in a rather abrubt tone which surprised me. When we arrived at LGW, the despatcher was not aware of any WCH pax and said it would be at least 45 minutes for assistance to arrive. I asked the despatcher if anything had been sent on by the outstation or the flight crew and he said "no". I entered the flight deck and queried with my Captain as to why I had no assistance for my pax and his response was "Oh, erm, right, well erm, that is XXX fault as they are supposed to send that message on with our ETA" I then said "Yes I know they are, but I advised you on the ground that the despatcher had not informed me of any WCH pax and I reminded you in flight about an hour before landing so you could radio on ahead" - his response was "Oh yeah, erm well we are not allowed to call up Servisair in flight to request assistance, erm this has to be done by the despatcher at XXX"

Now, apologies for the long post, but can someone confirm if the Captain was bending the truth here? I have always been under the impression that the Captain can make these requests and it does fit in with what aw8565 says in the opening post :confused: I just want to make sure that my pax get from A to B with as little disruption as possible, with as little hastle for everyone involved as possible too.

[BOAC]

There was a spell at BA s/haul LGW a few years ago where those who 'knew better' were ignoring w/chair calls from crew and working from the DCS signal, which often did not 'match' the 'requirements' on board. That was sorted out but may still happen here and there.

[aw8565]

Getoutofmygalley, the skipper is totally wrong. The sooner we hear about wheelchair pax the better. They are more than welcome to call up with requests and I will tend to take the crews opinion over a departure stations' one. (You may be surprised to hear that we often recieve no messages at all on a flight (including easyJets) informing us the flight has even left, meaning we have to phone easy ops to get ACARS times. Nothing will be known about specials until the flight calls up on VHF, or if they don't call, when they're on the ground. Ciampino, Venice I'm looking in your direction :E )

Ryanair is the only carrier that Servisair handles that I think this could be a problem, as their passengers MUST pre-book and pay for wheelchair assistance for it to be provided on arrival. This can only be done at check-in, not a cash in hand job on arrival.

It often seems that pilot's haven't the foggiest what wheelchair codes are about, which isn't necessarily their fault but it is in everyone's interest, including theirs, that a brief understanding is maintained...

WCHR: 'Wheelchair Romeo' (walker/runner)
Pax can manage to walk the length of a jetbridge to a wheelchair/buggy waiting at the top. If on a remote stand, the pax will be expected to board the bus with all other pax and will be met with assistance on arrival at the terminal building.
WCHS: Wheelchair Sierra' (staggerer/shuffler)
Pax can make their way off the aircraft onto the jetbridge but cannot walk very far. A wheelchair would ideally be brought to the aircraft door and the pax wheeled up the jetbridge. If on a remote stand an ambilift would be used for disembarkation.
WCHC: 'Wheelchair Charlie' (liftoff)
It is assumed the pax is immobile and will need lifting out of their seat. An aisle chair would be brought onto the aircraft and the pax transferred to another chair (most likely their own) once on the jetbridge. On a remote stand an ambilift would be used for disembarkation.

These are the codes as I understand them, focused mainly on arriving flights but departures would be very similar. The brackets are slang that despatchers often use and are not meant to be offensive in any way, it's just the way things are. At LGW, OCS (One Complete Solution) are the company that runs the ambilift. I believe they often only have 2 or maybe 3 running at what is the busiest single runway airport in the world. I speak to them on the phone all the time (mainly with late requests for their services!) and they are a very switched on and helpful bunch who work incredibly hard. Just seems a shame we can't help them out a bit more for the sake of some very simple actions.

Getoutofmygalley, cheers for the info. PM me in the future if you have any queries on the LGW operation...

[Getoutofmygalley]

Thanks aw8565

My particular skipper was on a line check that day, which is why he was bumbleing around with all the "ers & erms" when I asked him on the ground why no assistance was there.

I guess he simply forgot to radio Servisair (even though he was rather rude with his "Yes I know" in flight) and was trying to cover up with the lie so that the line trainer Captain would hopefully fall for it.

The Captain himself told the WCH pax that the assistance wasn't there (which was good of him) but when he told them it wasn't there he kind of inferred it was my fault (which was bad of him) until he realised I was listening in and saw I was about to explode - then he said it wasn't my fault and tried to make out if was BAA LGW's fault (Because the despatcher was in ear shot too, so he couldn't be blamed).

Because this particular Captain told what can be called blatant lies, I did lose faith in him for the rest of the day. Fortunately, this particular Captain isn't LGW based so it is probably quite unlikely I will fly with him again.

[Maude Charlee]

Regarding wheelchairs, it is often a case that the incorrect information is passed right from the moment that passengers are checked in.

Dispatchers rely on the information passed to them by their passenger handling agents, whether this be verbal or contained within the computerised check-in system. If the system has a passenger listed as a WCHR and not a WCHS or WCHC, then a WCHR will be advised to both the CC and onwards to the destination station.

However, that said, any dispatcher worth his or her salt will check prior to departure the exact level of assistance required and amend the request as necessary.

Pax are also their own worst enemy at times. They will refuse wheelchair assistance at check-in (embarassment, personal pride or whatever), and then upon arrival at the gate when they see that they have to climb steps, request assistance. As I'm sure nobody needs telling, this cannot be magically summoned with immediate effect. Or, as has been mentioned already, decide en-route that they can no longer walk and need assistance at the other end.

The situation is often complicated by pax who knowing they only have a short walk on departure, request no assistance, but on arrival at destination (say PMI where there is a substantial distance from gate to exit) do require legitimate assistance.

In a busy ops office, these things can be easily overlooked.

From the flight deck point of view, CC should notify the flight crew of any special requests whilst giving their pre-departure report. The PNF should ensure this is written on the PLOG and passed to the handlers upon contact. However, sometimes this is forgotten, and in the busier airports this unfortunately leads to lengthy delays.

Relying on the departure station to pass an accurate movement message is not foolproof. Some stations are excellent, some are not. Very often overseas stations, where communication between the CC and dispatcher is difficult due to limited spoken English (or any other common language), information is misunderstood or not understood at all, and therefore not passed correctly.

It is an imperfect system, with plentiful scope at all stages for human error. The best any of us can do is ensure we try to play our part, and manage the situation as best we can when the system fails.

[aw8565]

manage the situation as best we can when the system fails.

Does that include the pilot having a hissy FIT over the R/T at me when he has to wait 30 mins for an ambilift, simply because he didn't call in?

(I have never had a female pilot have a hissy fit at me..... yet)

I understand everything you have said Maude but I work in one of these busy ops offices and I could count on 2 fingers the number of times a despatcher's information regarding wheelchairs was not sent on the movement message. Admittedly down route that could change. The thing is, certainly with he airlines that we handle, a pax deciding mid flight that they require assistance on arrival would pose so much less of a problem if we had the VHF call 30 mins out.

At the end of the day I'm simply trying to make the situation better for all!

[Max Angle]

I just don't get involved in wheelchair requests anymore, we are not allowed to make company radio calls or PA's once we have left cruise altitude anyway. It's normally on the telex/pbi to the destination and if it's not then we will sort it once we get there. To be honest it's one of those things I always felt was "not my department" in the first place and the rule about company RT in the descent gave us the perfect excuse to stop worrying about it.

[Getoutofmygalley]

I just don't get involved in wheelchair requests anymore, we are not allowed to make company radio calls or PA's once we have left cruise altitude anyway. It's normally on the telex/pbi to the destination and if it's not then we will sort it once we get there. To be honest it's one of those things I always felt was "not my department" in the first place and the rule about company RT in the descent gave us the perfect excuse to stop worrying about it.

I can appreciate what you are saying there Max Angle, but when you work for a low cost airline with 20-30 minute turn arounds, you can't just sort it out on arrival. At LGW quite often OCS will give a lead time of around about 45 minutes before they can get to your aircraft, if the assistance hasn't been pre-booked. This obviously means you are late for your next sector as you will not be able to board or complete your security checks until the assistance pax have been removed from your aircraft.

And unfortunately a "not my department" attitude means it's the cabin crew who have to bare the brunt of the quite rightly disgruntled pax's complaints, when a quick radio call before leaving the cruise could ensure that the pax receive the assistance that they require.

[aw8565]

Yep I can appreciate what you're saying max angle but my personal impression is that that while you may forbidden to make a radio call after descent (and that's fair enough) (and assuming you're in range), what's wrong with checking during the cruise and doing a quick call BEFORE descent?

Airlines like Emirates, Qatar Etihad etc go into quite a bit of detail about wheelchair requirements on their movement messages. In fact these flights will commonly be met with a buggy anyway as part of the service on arrival. Other airlines will not have this luxury, hence the requirement to help the process along when possible.

I reckon we should give the SCCM on all flights a handheld VHF radio. They could call in EXACTLY their requirements for wheelchairs, catering/cleaning issues, unruly or unwell pax, thus relieving the flight crew of this responsibility. And not to put too finer point on it I bet they'd be a bit more pleasant to speak to than some pilots I deal with...

[Gary Lager]

aw - how far out do you think we are before we start our descent (not including time for descent brief/checklist/ATC liaison)?

And what do you think is the range of the average ops office VHF radio?

[aw8565]

Yeah I understand that if your airline prohibits that type of radio call AFTER descent has begun then you're probably too far away and not much anyone can do about that. I'm not oblivious to the small technicalities of it.

I also understand that this is a busy time for you chaps and I'd rather deal with the flak on the ground caused from no radio call, rather than risk the safety of your flight, even if it was just diverting your attention from flying at an important point.

To try to answer your question, we can often hear pilots long before we can reply. Our receiver is obviously better than our transmitter. We're talking a good 50 mins to an hour out, so a 'transmitting blind' call wouldn't be out of the question, although I really can't see it catching on! If we had the facility to read ACARS messages it would probably be a great help although I have little understanding of the system at this stage. I don't know how our radio compares with other stations, only ever worked at LGW...

Please look at it from my perspective for a mo.....



Long haul flight from far flung destination where the groundstaff do not fulfill their duties as well as they could, so miss out wheelchairs, and unaccompanied minors etc. 9 hours 30 mins in the cruise and no radio call so loads of problems on arrival.

----------------------------------------

Flybe flight from Guernsey/Jersey to Gatwick, flight time about 35-40 mins. Radio call EVERY flight, no kidding, short, concise to the point, takes about 12 seconds, bish bash bosh pass the fuel figures there's your stand, everybody's happy....



Like I've said in every post, I'm not out to upset anyone, just to try and unveil the mysteries and make others aware that this info is not always passed conventionally... and while it's a pain in the neck for me, I'm in an air conditioned office while you're out in Charlwood praying an ambilift might stop your way soon....

[Maude Charlee]

In an ideal world, yes it would be lovely if it could always happen like that, but it doesn't.

Handlers don't always respond to an R/T call (anything much beyond 80 miles out is usually a bit of a waste of time) either because the office is empty due to staffing issues and everybody has had to head for the ramp, or the one person in the office is tied up with something else - usually one of the bone stupid management team asking for something stupid and pointless on the phone.

Flight crews don't always have time to make the call, especially on short haul domestic sectors where they have a busy ATC R/T environment to contend with as well as all the usual briefings and ATIS gathering to complete during a very short cruise.

And, like I say, people forget. It may be something of enormous inconvenience and therefore importance to the ground handlers to get accurate information, but it isn't critical to the safe operation of the flight. Yes, the subsequent delay can be a pain, but to be honest sometimes on a 6 sector day an extra 5 or 10 minutes on a turnaround is a welcome blessing as it finally gives you a chance to go for a pee or get something to eat.

As for the shouting, yes there are sadly some real plonkers out there with little or no sense of perspective. I have both seen and been on the receiving end of many a rant in my previous existence in dispatch and from my present perch on the flight deck. It is unhelpful and counter-productive for all concerned.

[HZ123]

Aside,at BA we know that you ignore the special needs passengers at your peril as they provide income. If you serve them well then you get good coverage on their websites, most of the time. All staff in BA undergo training and awareness of special needs and particularly a/c loading staff and station managers, as to often the wheelchair arrives damaged. As others express actually meeting the correct numbers is not easy.

[aw8565]

OK here's my intended last post on this forum...

Ground staff don't always know about wheelchair pax on board so if a radio call is possible it will be much appreciated. The greater the accuracy of the information in the radio call, the better prepared we can be. It also avoids us having to tie up valuable (read:scarce) resources like ambilifts on flights which don't require them, so they be used on flights that do.

Thanks all for posting your opinions and points of view.

Happy flying!