BIRMINGHAM - 2

[Hawk]

Previous thread here:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2717865#post2717865

[OltonPete]

With the possible purchase of 10 ex TWA (now AA) 757's BHX must be
in with a chance of a JFK service.

However if approved by the bankruptcy courts the first two deliveries
would not be until July 2007 (all taken from another forum).

With NW intending to use 757's across the pond, US & AA already started there is plenty of possibilities.

There must be enough demand for at least one more service if not two?

AA to ORD would I presume be a 763 and although rumoured time and
time again I just can't see this happening but it would be a great coup.

Pete

[OltonPete]

Anymore takers?

There is still a spare slot from 6am-9.30 Monday to Friday.

The timetable sounds all a bit short for advertising etc.

Could it be the once rumoured Jersey or another Irish route such
as Shannon.

Is it definitely a new destination and if so would that be for both
BHX and Baby or just Baby?

Pete

[Centre cities]

Not Newquay again???

Centre cities

[bmibabyfc]

its NOT a new route for BHX but is for bmibaby!

so that obviously rules NQY out for you Centre Cities.......

was quite suprised myself when i heard it, but bmibaby like a battle and will enjoy the competition, will be nice to fly a boeing on the route for the BHX pax!

[tickerdboo]

BHX
"Simple, BHX hasnt attracted the expansive Easy Jet and shunned Ryanair with its over priced fees. The facts are starting to bite now. Monarch only serve charter destinations further undermining BHX former strong charter traffic, BMI Baby havent expanded this year at all. BACON are will be head-to-head with Flybe on 3 routes BHD,HAJ and ABZ someone will be the looser there! New destinations are whats needed and another US link. I have it from good authority that AA ORD may be on the cards again! Forget the FlyWhos it wont happen. Major airlines should be looking at BHX Britains second city so why arnt they?
Daza" from Dasz

In a nut shell Birmingham is stuck about 15 years in the past, the airport is always playing catch up with development, look at the short pier, why has that not been extended and the long pier torn down, why has the plans for the runway to be extended been on ice for the last 20 years, why do we have the backward rules here such as not using a taxiway before 6am. If I was in charge at Birmingham I would close it for a year, level it and start again. The bigest problem for Birmingham is that its owned (well 51% of it) by the local council, and everybody there want to see money spent on hospitals and schools i.e vote winners, if you want to see real expantion at the airport then it needs to be in private hand lock, stock and barell, maybe the local council should sell out to BAA and then we could start going places........:ugh:

[OltonPete]

bmibabyfc

You tease!

Does it involve the spare craft between 6am & 9.30am or are they
re-arranging a couple of the other schedules to get a 2 hour route in?

At least you have discounted a lot of routes.

New to baby but not to BHX and one with no Boeing!!!

It is getting late....I need some sleep before narrowing it down
to about 40 :eek:

At the moment any extra flights will be greatly appreciated
outside of AGP,ALC etc which of course this will not be.

Pete

[bmibabyfc]

ha ha!!! sorry dont want to keep you up!:)

i wish it was somewhere glamorous as an extra agp or alc etc but i doubt others would view it like that!

one final clue to you is that its a domestic route!

[ManchesterMan]

Heathrow...........................

[BombardierCR7]

I guess it must be INV as a wild stab...?

[bmibabyfc]

ooh getting very close with INV now....

[OltonPete]

Wow - Domestic

Aberdeen (Flybe to start so probably not although it is not until March)
Inverness
Newcastle (a bit of a short sector for a 737 - thought BE might dabble)
Isle of Man (no chance - I hope)
Belfast City (no chance.)

So Inverness is my guess. If not Aberdeen then Newcastle.

Is this a temporary route or to operate during the winter?

Pete

[bazzab68]

it is glasgow. without a doubt

[Richard Taylor]

I too will say INV.

Don't think my local as there was a recent interview in the local press here with bmi Reg, they said they didn't envisage bmi Baby coming to ABZ on the grounds of operating costs. Any further ABZ expansion from bmi Gp will likely be of the Regional/Barbie variety.

Suppose things can change, but don't see it!

[Richard Taylor]

Can I change my guess from INV to GLA? :O

[OltonPete]

Can I change my guess from INV to GLA? :O

If it is Glasgow we have been led up the garden path........New Route for
Baby was one quote. As far as I am aware they have been flying
EMA-GLA for quite a long time.

On that basis it has to be ABZ, INV or NCL.

ABZ would be very interesting with Flybe starting in March 07, Inverness might end up a disaster in one way, as it could scare Eastern off the route and Newcastle I suspect will never happen as a 735/733.

The spare slot for the route is first thing, Mon-Fri and if it is this time
then INV would possibly be fine. ABZ might need a morning and evening
flight to disrupt BACON.

Pete

[bazzab68]

reason I said glasgow was been discussed in our l/c office for ages, with both station manager of baby suggesting the next routes would be CDG and GLA out of bhx.

The quote about it being a new route for baby might indicate out of bhx meaning it could be GLA, depends how you take the comment I guess.

[OltonPete]

bazzab68

Yes it depends on how you read it "new route for Baby"

I hope it is Glasgow, if has to be a route with existing competition.

CDG would be good if true as well and give BACON & AF something to
think about.

I am a great supporter of BA out of BHX but I would have preferred
them to go full LCC with old 733's instead of this 145 network.
However that was always going to be a non-starter due to the
existing fleet in place.

Check out the CAA provisional stats for BHX and some of the BACON
routes are suffering, others have improved slightly & I just hope the cost
savings are enough to save the station but I have my doubts.

Good on Baby and although they have not done much in 2006 at BHX
I hope there is more to come.

Peter

[True Blue]

What are the chances of an increased frequency on the BHX to BFS route from the current 3 per day? It carries more pax than BFS to Man but at a lower frequency.

Anyone any views who might know?

[OltonPete]

True Blue

Certainly the Belfast Int figures have increased impressively.

It is a bit of a strange route in as much as when you do hear pax loads
from various sources they are usually not that good but the CAA stats
certainly do not lie.

I think in April it averaged around about the hundred mark, which
considering BACON started City in the same month it is a pretty
good result for Baby.

The provisional stats for June are out but Belfast Int has not filed
the figures. Belfast City have and they are down about 2000 this is
all from a net increase on the previous 12 months of three flights
a day. Far from stimulating interest in the route BACON has
actually depressed it or Baby have lured them away to Int.

As for yields on these routes I have no idea but something has
got to give. Already the BACON RJ100 flight (first one out) has been
been doing BHX-GLA instead recently. Whether this was pre-planned
I do not know.

At the moment pax wise it seems that Baby are winning, Flybe are
not doing too bad (remember some services have changed to the
DH8) and BACON appears to be struggling unless they are getting
good yields.

To answer your question, I think Baby would be better to attack
BACON on the Glasgow - Just would like BHX would actually get
some new routes!

Pete

[True Blue]

Read your response with interest. Checked the April Caa stats. The Bacon service started 12 April. For April, The BHX - BHD route carried approx 23,500 pax, down 5%. The BHX - BFS route carried approx 16,700, up 73%. That says a lot. Although when you look at the additional charges ex BHD, it is no wonder that pax are moving in increasing numbers to BFS.

True Blue

[Richard Taylor]

Re bmi B's new domestic route, when is any annoucement due?

bmibabyfc said we were "close" with INV, so I assume it's in Scotland somewhere, but not INV itself. NCL ain't "close" to INV, then again neither is anywhere else! :}

Then again, neither is my place! :\

Any other clues bmibabyfc? If not INV, would I need to head down the A9 or across the A90 for the answer? Re the destination, what is the area famous for (I'm fishing for clues)?

If it is GLA, would that be necessarily a surprise, given that bmi B already fly BHX-EDI?

[Maude Charlee]

Oban.

Ha ha ha! :}

[-BHXboy-]

Baby's new route really has to be either GLA or CDG for the timings to fit in the current fleet plans. With only one spare aircraft on the ground for a morning rotation though, would either of these destinations be viable on a once daily service?I know we are just months into the BA connect business plan, but do we have any idea actually how well they are doing and whether they are keeping to any targets set by the powers that be? The loads on the BCN and MAD seem relitively high and a couple of others are ok but on the whole, pax wise, other destinations are lagging well behind the competition, BE, WW and LH. IF BACON dont pull up their socks and regional operations do get severly cut back / stopped completely - what does the future hold for BA at BHX? Could we see GB Airways put in there for the previously mentioned viable routes or even mainline on some W patterns from LHR or LGW?

[bmibabyfc]

all will be revealed soon my friends!

as previously stated its not an airport that bmibaby currently fly into or out of..... so i guess that rules GLA out, which by the way is now x4 daily from EMA.

[hammerb32]

Wouldn't be Dundee would it ? Failing that I'm going with Aberdeen....

[FougaMagister]

... so i guess that rules GLA out, which by the way is now x4 daily from EMA.

I would think CDG then. It's served (only) twice daily ex EMA (WW5251/5253), plus BA Connect and Air France/CityJet could use some competition on the route (considering the fares they typically charge).

Cheers :cool:

[Richard Taylor]

CDG is domestic then? Here's me thinking CDG was in France. :confused:

[FougaMagister]

Who said it HAD to be domestic? INV would probably not fill a 737 (not even a -500) from BHX. Then again, if it does turn out to be domestic, why not JER - to turn the heat on Flybe?

What BHX needs (apart from a takeover by BAA :E ) is a number of NEW routes (ex: Central Europe, Baltic States, Balkans, Austria, etc)

Cheers :cool:

[onion]

Thought I might add to this.
Baby have pulled the Knock from MME so could there be a new route heading MME's way? maybe BHX? Probably a bit to short a route to be operated by a 737. If not could the two (MME and BHX) get the same service ie. both into INV?

[Richard Taylor]

I was going by bmibabyfc saying that it was:

i. domestic and, ii. "close" to INV, earlier in the thread.

He could have been joking of course!

[OltonPete]

Ryanair - Same as now with a few timing adjustments most noticeable
the Sunday am flight is now around midday.

SkyEurope - Yes a strange one. Twice a week as now similar timings but
on a Thursday & Sunday and at the moment it does not
operate between 28/10 and 14/12!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The service was apparently under review and all the other
winter schedules were loaded well before BHX.

The rumour was an increase in frequency and better timings.
The CAA stats prove the service is not working as it is!

Air Malta - Hurrah good news, showing as 4 a week Mo, Tue, Thur and Sat evening. Doubled from last winter!

Peter

[OltonPete]

Following on from the Stansted news or rumour of the new service there
is a possibility that BHX will be getting a 777 on a couple of the flights.

Nothing is showing on the various websites (just like the Stansted service)
but local info suggests it is going to happen.

CAA stats for BHX- ISB show good loads but once again no info known re yields.

Anyone else heard anything?

Pete

[rubber jonny]

Heard from PIA engineers that B777 sat/sun from end of month.

[OltonPete]

R J

Cheers for that, should make Saturdays Interesting: -

2 x AI 777
1 x EK 773
1 x PK 777
1 x EK 330
1 x TS 310

Plus the TOM 763 is in and out three times, also I think the TOM 762
is also due to be based from the end of the month (can anyone confirm?).

Pete

[shedrule]

Wouldn't be Dundee would it ? Failing that I'm going with Aberdeen....

Not unless BMI Baby have a drastic change to their fleet. Wont get a 737 into Dundee.

[-BHXboy-]

Following on from the Stansted news or rumour of the new service there
is a possibility that BHX will be getting a 777 on a couple of the flights.

Nothing is showing on the various websites (just like the Stansted service)
but local info suggests it is going to happen.

CAA stats for BHX- ISB show good loads but once again no info known re yields.

Anyone else heard anything?

Pete


First PK was due to be today, been replaced by A310 AP-BEG

[groundhogbhx]

Thats strange because we wern't expecting them til next weekend anyway. Me thinks someone in BIA got their dates mixed up:eek:

[OltonPete]

Any news on this new route for August, which was due to be announced shortly (as of last week)?

Jethroes is now showing three more 733's due at some point, are these
extras or replacing some of the 735's?

Also are they ex Easy machines and if extra to the fleet is there any
possibility that BHX might get a 6th based?

Pete

[bhx runway15]

Regarding PIA, the airline will commence its twice weekly Stansted service ( Tue and Sat) from 1st of August.Hopefully BHX should see a 777 service on the weekends.

[FougaMagister]

is there anypossibility that BHX might get a 6th based?

Pete

I have it on good authority that TWO extra airframes will come BHX's way by the winter season/end of year (provided they can be sourced)!

Cheers :cool:

[OltonPete]

FougaMagister

Thanks for the information.

Is this another airline scenting blood or should I say BACON?

Two extra based aircraft is exactly what BHX needs, I just hope that
at least a couple of new destinations are on the cards other than the
already rumoured GLA & CDG.

Pete

[FougaMagister]

Also, these extra airframes MIGHT turn out to be 734s (170Y config); "decent" 733s seem to be in increasingly short supply on the second-hand market...

Interesting times!

Cheers :cool:

[brummbrumm]

close to Inverness ------------ Lossiemouth

[bazzab68]

Swissport have hit their 4th plane this week

bang..... 1st a monarch, rear cargo door

bang...... 2nd Flybe astraus peto heads crushed by a/b

bang..................... 3rd Flybe Dash baggage cart in the side of the a/c

bang.............................. 4th Flybe Dash pushed over chock and wedge under nose wheel

Like I have said Swissport Muppets

:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[FougaMagister]

bang...... 2nd Flybe astraus peto heads crushed by a/b


It's called a Pitot head. Also, if it's an Astraeus 737-300, then I guess it's actually the Alpha probe (Angle of Attack vane) that got crushed :uhoh: . Bending a 737 Classic Pitot head would take some airbridge!

Just being pedantic... :E

[OPS1978]

In answer to the person saying about us hitting aircraft just ask lufthansa how many planes got hit they say we are muppets.

[groundhogbhx]

Just to be accurate, the dash was pushed against the chocks LAST week. Wouldn't go on too much about the aoa vane if I were you, the engineers were telling me how many LH 73's you lot have had a go at:eek:

What have you lot got against us anyway? Scared of the competition? This thread should be about whats happening at BHX and not trying to score points. Lets face it, if all avalanches screw ups were posted here Danny would be forking out a lot more for the bandwidth to fit it all in:ooh:

[rubber jonny]

groundhogbhx

Didnt they leave the brake of a tug a while ago and it rolled into a 737 causing quite a bit of damage!

All the handling agents have idiots working for them on the ramp I've seen so many aircraft hit by there equiptment, blokes being just plain idiots! what grips my sh#t is some think its funny.

[Dash-7 lover]

Hi....

Strolling through the staff carpark at 0430am and a Globemaster was taxiing from the old terminal and started its takeoff roll from the taxiway intersection with rwy 33 (forget the official term for non full-length takeoff). Rather impressive launch and a pretty display of anti-cols as it did a left turnout over the city. Anyone know why it was here?

[FlyboyUK]

I believe they are sometimes medical flights, bringing injured soliders who require specialist treament at the QE hospital

[groundhogbhx]

As has mentioned before, the low wages means that you don't get the quality of staff the job needs and accidents will happen:ugh: Until the industry wakes up to this and starts paying a fair rate for the service they expect don't expect things to change in a hurry:{

[theresalwaysone]

have a look at the seats available out of heathrow to aberdeen and inverness then you will know why Baby will pick Aberdeen(the Inverness flights are all full!)

[True Blue]

Bacon started in competition to Flybe in April on the Belfast City route. The Caa stats for May show 24324 pax on the route for May 06 vs 24995 pax in May 05. 4 extra flights per day and a 3% decrease in pax for both. Bmibaby carried 15057 to Bfs, up 58% from the 9551 pax in May 05.

So how profitable is for Bacon and Flybe? Of course, you could ask this question of Flybe on any route out of Bhd.

True Blue

[OltonPete]

True Blue

I can't help with the profitability question but at least flybe have modified
their service. It only runs seven a day on Monday and a Friday and for winter 06 it definitely shows six a day only (Mo-Fr). Also compared to last summer I think there are less 146's and more Dash 8's.

In early July BA had replaced the RJ100 (first BHX outbound) with a 145
although the winter it shows it as RJ100 again.

Also when I and a few others (from a BHX forum) had checked winter 06
all the Connect prices were the same and at a level well in excess of the
Flybe prices. Apparently in the past this has been a sign that the route is under review or about to be pulled.

Other rumours have mentioned it is okay.

Pete

[legalize]

When I used to work for mas we were the biggest handling agent on the airport and also had the most accidents. As swissport are now probably the biggest and handle the most aircraft obviously they will have more accidents than other handling agents. In swissports favour i can say that all the accidents mentioned have been minor apart from the monarch. Also i think that there ramp lads look a lot smarter and more professional than the other handling agents.

[legalize]

Did we have the pk-777 in over the weekend?

[OltonPete]

It was in the FIDS screens appaently on Friday but had changed to a 310
by Saturday morning.

In the end both the Saturday and the Sunday services were 310's, I believe.

Pete

[Ian Farquharson]

BA withdraws route from Belfast

British Airways is withdrawing Belfast to Birmingham service
British Airways has announced that it is withdrawing its route from Belfast to Birmingham.
The service, which operates four times per day, will stop from 21 August.

The company said passengers who have booked beyond this will be offered either a full refund or booked on an alternative service.

It said the decision to withdraw the service had been a difficult one, but passenger numbers had been disappointing.

The route is run by BA Connect, British Airways' regional airline.

"The decision to cease flying from Belfast to Birmingham has not been an easy one," David Evans, BA Connect managing director said.

"Passenger numbers on the route have been extremely disappointing and despite our best efforts we see no prospect of passenger levels improving in the near future.

"We have to act in the best interests of the company and therefore have no option but to withdraw from this route and concentrate on developing our operation in other areas."

The airline's Belfast to Manchester service will continue operating as normal.

[Centre cities]

Just shows what a well thought out decision it appears to have been to start it in the first place.

They open a new route from BHX. They pick Belfast City. Did they forget that Flybe have an established extensive schedule on it and that Baby serve Belfast as well. I would of thought that the chances of it working were almost nil.

It is said that they need to make a profit within 2 years. It seems that starting a route that is already saturated was not a good choice. Still perhaps there was a sound reason for the choice but I carnt think of it.


Centre cities

[legalize]

I think it has more to do with the fact that Swissport are doing such a brilliant job with flybe's(BHD) turnarounds. Word must have spread amongst passengers and they are queing up to get on flybes handled by swissport!!!

[bazzab68]

Legalize (probably the drugs you taking)

If swissport are dispatching the bhds then it will probably be down to 5 a day as you will probably ground at least 1 of the a/c on the bhd sector by pranging it :)

and as for pax, they will want to stay clear as the likely hood of receiving there baggage is probably 0, after you lot have handled it.

The War Goes on in earnest!!!!

[groundhogbhx]

Bazza

You seem to be the only muppet on here. We have the occasional problem with Flybe's but nothing more than you would expect with the number of flights and the number of bags missing flights is negligable, probably a lot less than missed them in your days. If you are going to slag us off you can at least get you facts straight, but then again you do work for aviance;)

[bazzab68]

it is not an attack, but just a laugh on here to see that we all make mistakes. I aint serious in any of the posts,:) just seems to be the only news we get in this drab airport. :bored:

[Dash-7 lover]

BACON is now BACOFF - BHX-BHD route is being dropped from 21st AUG!! FLYBE win again......

[groundhogbhx]

Bazza

We don't have time for sasrcasm in this office any more, well not since you lot were careless enough to lose flybe:(

[legalize]

"groundhogbhx"

Well said mate. I agree with you.
I cant say who I am as in my position I cannot be seen to be showing favouritism towards any handling agent but I must admit I have a soft spot for swissport. I admire the way you have coped from day 1 with minimum staff, training and equipment. With all these setbacks I see your staff walking around the ramp, terminal, sitting outside starbucks having a crafty fag and around the airport with there heads held high and always in good spirits.
And even if you do have a few bumps now and again it gives me (sorry , did I say ME!!!!) i mean BIA, something to do to help pass the time. It keeps us AWAKE!!!!
Well done swissport..keep it up

[rubber jonny]

"groundhogbhx"
And even if you do have a few bumps now and again it gives me (sorry , did I say ME!!!!) i mean BIA, something to do to help pass the time. It keeps us AWAKE!!!!
Well done swissport..keep it up

That is a very idiotic statement to make.:ugh:

So inconveniencing Hundreds/thousands of people, costing an airline Thousands of pounds, causing damage to aircraft keeps you awake and passes the time.You really do need to get out more.

Next time it happens go and pass your comments to the airline personnel and passengers!!!!!!!.

If you are bored and like seeing damage,go get a job banger racing fool!

[legalize]

Bird strikes also cause major delays!!! Next you will be suggesting that the birds go and apologise to the passengers as well...Accidents will always happen mate..What about the feelings of those poor banger cars!!! You'r so inconsiderate

[groundhogbhx]

That is a very idiotic statement to make.:ugh:

So inconveniencing Hundreds/thousands of people, costing an airline Thousands of pounds, causing damage to aircraft keeps you awake and passes the time.You really do need to get out more.

Next time it happens go and pass your comments to the airline personnel and passengers!!!!!!!.

If you are bored and like seeing damage,go get a job banger racing fool!

Ever heard of the phrase "people in glass houses"? If anyone needs to get out more I think it would probably be you. We would love to sit here and pick holes in everything that aviance does wrong but we are a little more mature than that. If you want to take pot shots try it on Jet Blast, not here.

[OPS1978]

the only reason people are constantly slagging swissport off is prob they couldnt get a job with us so had to make do with 2nd best........

[legalize]

A friend of mine tells me that some aviance dispatchers are desperate to jump ship and come to swissport. The only thing that stopped the move was the change of management at swissport.

[rubber jonny]

Legalize
Bird stikes can cause delays I agree, But its not a birds stupidity that makes it hit the aircraft.
Bird strikes cannot be avoided but people driving or pushing ground equiptment into aircraft and damaging them can be avoided.How many times to you see baggage trucks,belt loaders speeding around the ramp,with jokers playing tunes on the horn,its that kind of mentality within some people that causes accidents to aircraft and ground equiptment.
Iv'e seen aviance,swissport, serviceair and catering trucks all hit aircraft with ground equiptment and heard the excuses,"it moved on its own,brakes didnt work,dunno what happened etc etc".Most of the accidents are caused by people not taking care and being stupid.
I'm sure if you go and tell passengers your gonna be delayed because someone hit the aircraft with steps,belt loader etc and say "And even if you do have a few bumps now and again it gives me (sorry , did I say ME!!!!) i mean BIA, something to do to help pass the time. It keeps us AWAKE!!!!" there gonna be thrilled to bits. But tell them that the aircraft's had an unavoidable bird strike I'm sure they will be more understandable about the delay.
groundhogbhx
I am not employed by a handling agent so I have no bias or gripe towards any of them!

[hammerb32]

BMIBaby to Durham now bookable online, guess it's close to Scotland!

[groundhogbhx]

groundhogbhx
I am not employed by a handling agent so I have no bias or gripe towards any of them!

No? You've got plenty to say about them and I bet you have no idea about the conditions they have to work in. Low pay, short staffed, and equipment that isn't always in the best of health, out in all sorts of weather, having to rush from flight to flight with no breaks. It doesn't matter who they work for its always the same. Vehicles do become faulty when they are in use all day every day, people do make mistakes when they have been running around like lunatics all shift trying to keep up and keep delays down. I would challenge you to go and tell them they are being careless or stupid, I wouldn't be in a hurry to place a bet on how long you would stay on your feet.

[bazzab68]

Not bookable on baby site

[Tisme]

BMIBaby to Durham now bookable online, guess it's close to Scotland!

bmibaby have flown to Durham for a long time now.

[bazzab68]

not from bhx you muppet.

[bazzab68]

:hmm: :hmm: A friend of mine tells me that some aviance dispatchers are desperate to jump ship and come to swissport. The only thing that stopped the move was the change of management at swissport.


NAMES PLEASE!!! and the reason for management was.... oh yes underperforming station

My mate told me you chat **** but thats another question.


You'll now be taking a PPRuNe break bazzab68. Play the ball instead of the man.

[Richard Taylor]

Didn't bmiBabyFC say it was an airport where Baby had not flown to or from before (I took that to mean generally, & not just related to BHX). As they have a presence at Teesside already, wouldn't that rule DTV out.

Any word yet?

[Tisme]

Richard Taylor

Thank you that was how I understood it too, hence I am not a muppet as quoted above.

People should think before they post.

[rubber jonny]

YAWN !!!! STILL WEAR THE T-SHIRT MATE:rolleyes: same conditions!

[legalize]

Whats the latest on the flybe emb 190? Will it be used at bhx? Whats the seating config on it

[OltonPete]

legalize

Originally it was rumoured that the first 195 was coming to BHX but it
is not in any of the systems until the end of October as operating
from BHX.

It will then do the 0700ish outbound to Alicante on Mo We Fri and
Malaga Tu & Thu Sa.

The aircraft then goes back to Norwich (ex Thurs) before
operating back to AGP/ALC & it then returns to BHX at night.

Thursday it does BHX -Malaga & Murcia plus Murcia on a Sunday.

I believe it will also do Ski destinations when they start.

The first reported config was definitely 118 but rumours elsewhere
mentioned a change to 122. Another site stated that the first
delivery is delayed a little due minor tech details.

I think the first operational route is now Southampton - Edinburgh

Pete

[groundhogbhx]

Definately 118 seats and keep your eyes open for it next month:ok:

[Ian Farquharson]

Birmingham International Airport (BIA) handled 955,872 passengers
during July, a decrease of 6.7% on the same period last year.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that many have chosen to stay at home and
bask in the great British summer! The loss of MyTravelLite has also
impacted on passenger figures.

However, growth was experienced on services to the Indian sub-
continent, which rose by 12.5%, and non-EU routes which grew by 11%.

Scheduled routes that experienced growth include; Gothenburg
(+94.4%), Zurich (+69.7%), Malta (+39.3%), Inverness (+25.9%), Paphos
(+18.5%), Munich (+14.5%), Amsterdam (+12.8%), Frankfurt (+8.9%),
Aberdeen (+7.7%), Lyon (+7%), Madrid (+6.7%), Glasgow (+5.6%),
Toulouse (+4.6%), Barcelona (+5%) and Brussels (+3.5%).

Charter traffic which experienced growth includes; Croatia
(+117.64%), Bulgaria (+60.1%), Mexico (+37.4%), Morocco (+34.2%),
France (+28.5%), Madeira (+25.6%), Dominican Republic (+23.8%) Cyprus
(+13.3%), Germany (+12.3%) and Tunisia (+5.1%).

Scheduled traffic accounted for 64.4% of the total passenger traffic
in July whilst charter passengers made up the remaining 35.6%.

[rubber jonny]

Nice to see another Aircraft been hit, Aerosvit B737 with a nice long hole in its side.Not only has the skin got a loooong hole in it but a frame has been damaged also.
I wonder what the excuse is this time?
Well done to all concerned.
Leaglize I take it you are "AWAKE" for this one aswell.

Now you tell me this one could not be avoided, I think not.

[Centre cities]

Perhaps it is time for some P45's to be given. Or is it ow well never mind.

Centre cities

[Cyrano]

Nice to see another Aircraft been hit, Aerosvit B737 with a nice long hole in its side.Not only has the skin got a loooong hole in it but a frame has been damaged also.

Can you tell me the registration of the aircraft, please?
(not a spotter question - I have a business interest in knowing who the lessor is! :bored: )

[Ian Farquharson]

Aerosvit is UR-VVL

Ian

[egnxema]

Birmingham International Airport (BIA) handled 955,872 passengers
during July, a decrease of 6.7% on the same period last year.
Anecdotal evidence suggests that many have chosen to stay at home and
bask in the great British summer! The loss of MyTravelLite has also
impacted on passenger figures.


I don't think that the weather can be blamed for the decrease, the weather was just as good in Derbys/Notts/Leics & Lincs ane EMA reported a 15% increase inpax numbers.

This from their website:-

Despite the sizzling summer weather throughout July across the region, the number of people passing through the doors of Nottingham East Midlands Airport (NEMA) has jumped by 15% compared to the same month in 2005.

Between 1 July and 31 July 2006, 514,216 customers travelled to and from the Airport. During July 2005 this figure was 447,634 for all arrivals and departures.

[OltonPete]

Certainly BHX's figures are a shock, I thought a 1-2% loss was likely and it seems that the airport were expecting this in the earlier part of the year but over 6%!.

All we can hope for that it shakes the management to the core as these
are pathetic figures. I just checked the BHX July 2003 CAA stats -
992813. It takes some doing in the current aviation boom to obtain
monthly pax figures below July 2003.

The East Mids figures are good but 2005 was "their bad year", as the
CAA stats show the following: -

July 2003 474801
July 2004 483739
July 2005 447634.

With Ryanair in place things should only improve for EMA and good luck to them. BHX are struggling but I still would not like this horrible airline based at BHX, more jealous of EMA having the Orange lot and we would
graciously take them off your hands ;) , crew shortages and all.

BTW the Ryanair EMA French routes seem to be hitting the Flybe French
routes at BHX looking at the April-June stats. Of course Flybe have
changed some routes from a 146 to DH8 but I have just checked
the May load factors and they are not great even on a Dash 8.

Hard times at BHX.

Pete

[Centre cities]

2004 was a bad year, 2005 was much better but all the arm chair viewers suspected that this would not last. The reason is of course that the extra capacity was all on the same routes with Baby, Monarch and Flybe all competing with Lite.

What is left after it sorts itself out. Lite are no more, Baby have stood still,Flybe have cut back. The only expanding airline is Monrarch.

Well I would be suprised if the airport management had not seen that coming.

Centre cities

[legalize]

Slimy Johnny

quote
"So inconveniencing Hundreds/thousands of people, costing an airline Thousands of pounds, causing damage to aircraft keeps you awake and passes the time.You really do need to get out more.

Next time it happens go and pass your comments to the airline personnel and passengers!!!!!!!."


Hitting a/c does not always inconveniance thousands of passengers. In this case, probably 10-15!!!:) :)

Personal attack comments removed.

[we_never_change]

A couple of rumours, a Turkish Airline (Atlasjet?) is apparently looking at several new European routes which includes Birmingham. Not sure if this will be from IST or SAW

Also, Sky Europe are looking to increase their presence at Birmingham. Possibly increasing the current frequencies & could add more new routes to Eastern Europe.

Also Rumours of Austrian & Finnair around although the former could just be charter flights

WNC

[OltonPete]

WNC

Not heard the Turkey rumour but OS and AY have been doing the rounds
for a while. OS as a CRJ or FK70 and AY as a 170 would have a decent
chance if the timings are right.

Rumour has it the airport tried to persuade SkyEurope to increase and
move the flight times due to the poor performance of the flight (see
CAA stats).

All SkyEurope did was move to flights by a day and kept the same
timings. With the performance of the Krakow it would be a brave
decision to expand but certainly 4 flights a week would have more
chance than the present two.

Budapest could be another good route for them?

Pete

[JAR]

195 due to fly BHX GLA 28 Sep 06 and BHX EDI on 29th.

[airhumberside]

A couple of rumours, a Turkish Airline (Atlasjet?) is apparently looking at several new European routes which includes Birmingham. Not sure if this will be from IST or SAW
If its Atlasjet it will be IST

[OltonPete]

Golden rule - always check the most update information before posting:rolleyes:

I checked the July CAA stats (provisional) for Krakow and they are much
improved compared to May & June, which you would probably expect.

July 2006: -

Krakow 2056, assuming 18 flights (8 movements on Wed & 10 Sat) = 114
per flight. Most if not all were on a 73G, which equals a fair load factor.

Just need to know yields but if you can persuade an average of 114 pax
to fly at 07.00 ish from Krakow there must be hope for the service.

Pete

[gilesdavies]

Found the answer: -
HEATHROW 6,533,164 +1.2%
GATWICK 3,720,070 +4.2%
MANCHESTER 2,422,504 +1.0%
STANSTED 2,391,507 +10.0%
GLASGOW 1,036,595 -1.7%
LUTON 959,114 +5.2% :D
BIRMINGHAM 945,264 -6.8% :{
EDINBURGH 862,523 +2.0%
NEWCASTLE 603,209 +5.9%
BRISTOL 572,487 +6.3%
EAST MIDS 525,113 +17.5%
LIVERPOOL 483,597 +9.2%
ABERDEEN 292,237 +6.6%
PRESTWICK 268,400 +0.8%
CARDIFF WALES 241,768 +14.7%
BHX has about 10000 transit pax to add usually but still pathetic.
Pete

Just found this on the Luton forum and looks like LTN have beaten BHX by a small margin to the 6th Spot in busiest airports within the UK in July.

I cannot verify the source, but seems pretty accurate as LTN does not seem to publicly realse their pax figures and the airport has opened numerous routes recently.

[hammerb32]

Just found this on the Luton forum and looks like LTN have beaten BHX by a small margin to the 6th Spot in busiest airports within the UK in July.
I cannot verify the source, but seems pretty accurate as LTN does not seem to publicly realse their pax figures and the airport has opened numerous routes recently.

Thanks for adding such cheery news!

In all seriousness who wants bets on Edinburgh overtaking by this time next year ?

[hammerb32]

Going back to SkyEurope, the Krakow flights look as though they're filling up nicely. I've just tried to book seats in October and have been quoted £79.00 each way plus taxes for my preferred dates, an expansion of services may well be on the cards ?

[FougaMagister]

Don't you guys ever sleep? ;)

[LTNman]

as posted to the Luton forum:

Luton has also now overtaken Birmingham, Glasgow and Edinburgh on year on year figures and is now in 5th place.

Carrying on the thread about how Luton has overtaken Birmingham here are the figures over the last 10 years .

July 1997 2,933,000 5,614,000
July 1998 3,661,000 6,307,000
July 1999 4,798,000 6,819,000
July 2000 5,835,000 7,210,000
July 2001 6,462,000 7,736,000
July 2002 6,396,000 7,628,000
July 2003 6,731,000 8,543,000
July 2004 7,026,000 8,997,000
July 2005 8,619,000 8,964,000
July 2006 9,353,390 9,245,072

Birmingham up 64% over a 10 year period while Luton is up 219% which is a growth rate nearly 4 times higher than Birmingham.

[rubber jonny]

Slimy Johnny
quote
"So inconveniencing Hundreds/thousands of people, costing an airline Thousands of pounds, causing damage to aircraft keeps you awake and passes the time.You really do need to get out more.
Next time it happens go and pass your comments to the airline personnel and passengers!!!!!!!."
Hitting a/c does not always inconveniance thousands of passengers. In this case, probably 10-15!!!:) :)
Personal attack comments removed.
Legalize you dont get it do you ! 1 flight might not delay that many people but the knock on effect with the aircrafts next flights delayed will add to the total.Delay a B757 with 200 people doing 3 services in 1 day for one aircraft will easily delay over 1000 passengers.But delay a J41 with 30 people over the same services it would be 180 max.
The end result is passengers whether 15 or 1000 will be delayed and all will be p*ssed if due to an avoidable accident.
And what is the "personal attack comments removed" all about?

Your personal attack comments have now been removed as well Rubber Jonny.

[OPS1978]

I dont no about other people but i am fed up with having to buy expensive drinks airside just to have a cold drink at work.

You cant take liquids through airside for the obvious reasons but to stop sealed cans of pop is totally a joke.

I was stopped yesterday and had my "sealed can of Pop" taken from me i asked the secruity staff why there answer was it caused a issue with the liquid.

But then i asked how it was that the retail outlets can have bottles of pop for sale airside as it comes from landside before going on sale there answer was it went through the scanner but as my point was, so is my drinks so what is the problem.

I buy soft drinks in bulk so i dont have to spend over the top prices just to have a cold drink a friend of mine at work does the same.

[legalize]

Rumour has it that Swissport have there own shop selling drinks e.t.c inside the ops office!!!!
These current issues cant be good for business...
Maybe security have a shop that is in competition with yours...lol!!!

[tickerdboo]

well with the pay offer from swissport, we can live like kings, so who care if your pop is taken away, cause every pay packet is a fortune. We can afford to splash out on drinks and food from the departure lounge, at amazing how far 3% will go......

[FougaMagister]

... and what about staff gate security rules that keep changing by the day - or sometimes (like yesterday) during the course of one day? How about getting ONE set of clear, unambiguous rules as opposed to constantly moving goalposts?

And while we're at it, how come all airside staff have to provide 5 years of employment security references, plus a Criminal Record Check from Disclosure Scotland (at their expense :* ), but get treated exactly the same way as PAX when it comes to going through security?

Why prevent Flight Crew from taking their own drinks onboard, or Cabin Crew from taking lip gloss (yes!) or hand cream := (technically not liquids, and necessary when one knows how dry it gets after ten hours in an aircraft cabin), but I can take yogurt through? :ugh:

We all accept the need for tight(er) security, but how come it always looks like these rules are designed and implemented by people that have absolutely no knowledge of, or track record in, the aviation industry?

Rant over (for the time being)!

[rubber jonny]

What about the captain who stripped down to his underpants to go through security(in protest),put his uniform through x-ray put them back on then got a pat down by the gaurd,common sense went straight through the window.

[Snigs]

Our cabin crew were told that they were not allowed to take two bags airside (i.e. crew bag and handbag), so they have to place their handbags inside their crew bags and all is ok, as suggested by the security staff. They were also told that as soon as they walk through the airside door they could do what they liked, for example, take their bags out again! WTF is that about? :ugh:

[toploaders]

In answer to the person saying about us hitting aircraft just ask lufthansa how many planes got hit they say we are muppets.

Why don't you then - the answer should be none for years!!!:D

Now lets ask the same question to Aerosvit?? Nice one boys!!:ugh:

[tickerdboo]

I just heard from a few contacts at Swissport Stansted that they were offered a 4% pay rise on basic and a 10% on shift pay, which was rejected and are going on strike over............ Looks like the North/South divide on pay is only going to get bigger with our offer of 3%.........

Ps
at Stansted dispatchers dispatch, not the leading hands.....3% anybody....:ok:

[legalize]

I think that 3% is a poor offer when you look at how your workload has doubled. Have you accepted it? If not, what next?

[Fried_Chicken]

Currently showing on the screens for this morning is a Jet Airways arrival, unfortunetly only a delivery flight but it's a start!!

They must have been impressed by BHX & are presumably still awaiting route rights from the Indian/UK Gov't?

FC

[groundhogbhx]

I think that 3% is a poor offer when you look at how your workload has doubled. Have you accepted it? If not, what next?

Will have to wait and see what the result of the ballot is, only a couple of weeks to wait.:ok:

[legalize]

OK......Time for your management to get their greys out!!!!!lol

[groundhogbhx]

I've been hearing on the grapevine that Brits or what ever they call themselves this week are to pull their longhaul from BHX!! The reason being that the -200's are going to Silverjet and the -300's can't lift enough freight across the pond because of the length of the runway. If this turns out to be true surely it has got to be time for the BIA management to wake up and get on with extending the runway:ugh: How much more traffic are they willing to lose to EMA before something gets done:sad:

[OltonPete]

I could only find one SFB in the online brochures for next year instead of the two but Cancun and POP are listed the last time I looked.

Goa is still being offered for winter 2006/7 and the Tuesday/Friday cruise flights are also still operating AFAIK.

It would certainly be bad news for BHX but I always thought that Thomson's real beef with BHX was more to do with landing fees rather than runway length.

I think the last three months passenger figures have been a major wake
up call for BHX and I hope that this is just TOM trying to negotiate a better a deal as this would be a major blow.

If the rumours are true about BMI Baby expansion it would appear
that BHX Management are trying to arrest the sharp decline in pax
but that is another story.

Pete

[scruggs]

Did anyone manage to see the C-17 yesterday? It flew over my house very early yesterday morning on approach for 15.

Any ideas where it came from?

[bmibabyfc]

FINALLY I CAN REVEAL A NEW DESTINATION FROM BHX with bmibaby !!!

For all those that guessed some months ago about the new route with bmibaby from bhx its is ABZ!!!

Some were close with INV and i think someone even mentioned dundee ???

There will be two daily flights, i presume one first thing and second one in early evening/afernoon commencing from 29 October 2006.

Regards

bmibabyfc

[Richard Taylor]

Heard it on local radio news.

:ok:

Can't see 3 airlines on the route, assuming Flybe launch in Spring07.

So will bmi B & Flybe force BA off the route.

Will this make it a BACON sandwich.

(Coat, leaves...:} )

[-BHXboy-]

I've been hearing on the grapevine that Brits or what ever they call themselves this week are to pull their longhaul from BHX!! The reason being that the -200's are going to Silverjet and the -300's can't lift enough freight across the pond because of the length of the runway. If this turns out to be true surely it has got to be time for the BIA management to wake up and get on with extending the runway:ugh: How much more traffic are they willing to lose to EMA before something gets done:sad:

Just a thought on this one, it is a very rare occurrence that a 767-200 will be used by TOM on a longhaul route these days out of BHX (The last one I can remember is a one-off FLL flight last winter). The furthest they normall stretch is the Cyprus / Turkey routes in the couple of months that one is based in summer. None the less, when the 767-200 are sold off, where will the extra European route capacity come from?

Also remembering that the summer based 767-300 also does the ACE, PFO, PMI*2, IBZ, GRO, should we lose longhaul will these routes be downgraded to a smaller aircraft or are we likely to see more W pattern flights rather than BHX based aircraft?

[Fried_Chicken]

Did anyone manage to see the C-17 yesterday? It flew over my house very early yesterday morning on approach for 15.
Any ideas where it came from?

C17's are fairly regular in Birmingham. They bring wounded British servicemen/women for treatment in one of the Cities hospitals. Vc10's & C130's are also occasional visitors.

FC

[legalize]

probably an airport or airfield!!!!LOL

[BAforever]

It would certainly be bad news for BHX but I always thought that Thomson's real beef with BHX was more to do with landing fees rather than runway length

Quite true, BHX has a runway length of 2605m while say Cardiff has a lengnth of 2392m and CWL has 3 weekly Orlando flights One to POP and one to CUN with TOM on 767-2/3er so i cant see the runway being a problem. They also are not the only long-haul CWL operators. XL, Mytravel, Zoom to canada so its obviously the landing fees.

[OltonPete]

Continental is showing double daily from 1/6/07 rather than 10 a week as now.

I tried a few test bookings over June & July and both CO27 & CO33 offered everyday.

2007 is looking a little brighter added to the Monarch increase, Flybe
Aberdeen, Galway & Aberdeen plus the rumoured 2 extras Baby's (if true).

Just need to keep the TOM 763!

Pete

[groundhogbhx]

Quite true, BHX has a runway length of 2605m while say Cardiff has a lengnth of 2392m and CWL has 3 weekly Orlando flights One to POP and one to CUN with TOM on 767-2/3er so i cant see the runway being a problem. They also are not the only long-haul CWL operators. XL, Mytravel, Zoom to canada so its obviously the landing fees.

I believe the runway at CWL is flat, well it certainly looked it last time i was there, BHX has a great big slope in the middle. Going off 33 is fine, you get gravity to help with acceleration, going the other way when it's hot and the wind is only just strong enough to stop you taking 33 you can get a huge drop in payload which would mean any freight booked gets dumped straight away. Eventually the freight goes to other airports that can take it and revenue drops, the economics of the route become questionable, therefore the route gets moved 45 miles up the road. The only way to keep these flights is to lenghten the runway so they can take max payload in any weather.

[OltonPete]

Another dismal month apparently, BBC local news saying 6.2% down.

Knights in shining armour required or more than likely, equally old and
probably not too shiny 733's (or 734's per some rumours) in the form
of a baby?


Pete

[LTNman]

Security personnel at Birmingham Airport ordered a man to turn his t-shirt inside out because it bore a drawing of two crossed guns. As he waited to board the flight to Newark, New Jersey, guards told Staffordshire design engineer Dave Osbourne the graphic represented a security risk

[30W]

Going off 33 is fine, you get gravity to help with acceleration, going the other way when it's hot and the wind is only just strong enough to stop you taking 33 you can get a huge drop in payload which would mean any freight booked gets dumped straight away. Eventually the freight goes to other airports that can take it and revenue drops, the economics of the route become questionable, therefore the route gets moved 45 miles up the road. The only way to keep these flights is to lenghten the runway so they can take max payload in any weather.

Actually, R/W15 is quite obstacle limited, that being the primary reason for the lower payload we can lift compare to a R/W33 departure. There are many large trees within the climb out area (other side of the A45) which cause problems to the single engine climb consideration. The airport is actively trying to sort this issue, but it should have been done years ago. I'm sure it won't be a quick resolution, as I believe most are under preservation orders.......

BIA could offer commercial incentives to it's use compare to NEMA, but chooses not to do so. NEMA on the other hand is very active commercially with operators. That includes existing ones, not just new start ups. If they want our long haul business, it's really up to them to go out and get it. BIA do nothing on this front, they seem to think the name 'Birmingham' will sell itself. Their danger is even with a longer R/W (still years away!), then it will only bring them on par with NEMA. Fees are cheaper there, and at that point having successfully, and hapily, run our long haul from there for many seasons, why should we move it to BHX? :ugh:

I think, sadly, BHX has a good few more years being left further and further behind in the doldrums. Having operated from here for the vast majority of my 23 year flying career to date, it's sad and dissapointing to see.:(

[scruggs]

Just noticed this on the BHX website:

Departure BE 8146 to Birmingham 16:00

Arrival BE 8146 from Birmingham 16:45 expected 17:38

Would this be their new 195 doing some kind of special flight?

[OltonPete]

EasyPilot

I have not seen any reports that the 195 has been in today. The only
thing of note was a Jet 738W on delivery from Boeing Field
en route to India. The 195 was definitely in yesterday early evening but I am not sure if it N/S etc.

The flight number is similar to the one that undertook "the fear of flying
course" a few months ago.

Just a guess though

Pete

[scruggs]

Of course, I forgot about the fear of flying courses.

Thanks Pete :ok:

[OltonPete]

EasyPilot

Yes just used a well known search engine, found a fear of flying course
today at BHX connected to a well known airline.

Mind you the comedians on this forum, could have a field day with such
phrases as "fear of flying" and "the 146" ;) all assuming it was a 146 and not a Dash 8:bored: .

Only joking, I have my first Dash 8 flight soon :ooh:, mind you I will
pleased if I have been on my last 146/RJ100 - never did take to them.

Pete

[Fried_Chicken]

BEE8146 was indeed a 146, a 300srs if I remember correctly

The E195 on Saturday arrived from Glasgow & departed to Exeter around an hour later

Fried Chicken

[splash&dash]

Did anyone notice the other brand new a/c type at BHX on saturday afternoon apart from the smart EMB195?

Lufty flew in their new CRJ900! :ok:

that and the brand new Jet Airways 737 800 delivery flight from Seattle to India it was a week for spotters out there.

[OltonPete]

Just the three extra aircraft for BHX then!

One in Jan and two for Summer 07

Routes to be announced shortly.

Just Glad BHX management have taken the pax decrease seriously
and somebody has taken up the challenge.

can baby smell the Bacon?

On another forum it mentioned baby as the wounded animal after
pulling out of DTV. Wrong airline surely?

Pete

[cesare.caldi]

Just the three extra aircraft for BHX then!

One in Jan and two for Summer 07

Routes to be announced shortly.


Any rumors about possible new routes?

[MaxRange120]

All the latest on the new BHX routes direct from the bmibaby website today.They seem to be up for the expansion and more jobs at least!!
MR120:ok:
Release date : 2006-09-19
bmibaby announces further expansion at Birmingham International Airport
60% year on year growth in capacity at Birmingham
Three additional Aircraft based at the airport taking total to Eight
Many new destinations and increases in weekly flights expected
Airline consolidates position as number one carrier in the Midlands
More local jobs created
bmibaby, the award winning airline with tiny fares has today (Tuesday 19th September 2006) announced a significant expansion programme at Birmingham International Airport starting in January 2007. Capacity will increase by 60% year on year with the addition of three Boeing 737 aircraft taking the total number of bmibaby aircraft based at Birmingham International Airport to eight.
The expansion consolidates bmibaby’s position as the largest carrier at Birmingham and the largest carrier in the Midlands region. bmibaby is expected to be announcing several new destinations and an increase in frequency on some existing routes. Fares will continue to start from just £13.99 one way including taxes and charges.
bmibaby managing director, Crawford Rix, said:
“I am pleased to announce phase one of bmibaby’s rapid expansion programme at Birmingham International Airport starting in January 2007. We will be increasing our capacity by a massive 60% year on year as we increase the number of Boeing 737 operating from the airport to eight.
We will be introducing a number of exciting new destinations to compliment the thirteen European destinations that bmibaby currently serves from Birmingham International Airport. The new destinations have not been finalised as we are still in the process of compiling a short list of European destinations that offer the market potential and infrastructure to cope with the significant injection of passenger volumes that bmibaby will drive. The plan is to conclude discussions with short listed airport destinations over the next few weeks.
Fares will continue to be aggressively priced, starting from just £13.99 one way, including taxes and charges.
bmibaby remains the largest carrier in the Midlands and we have more exciting growth developments planned over the next 12 months as we consolidate and build on our number one position”
The addition of the new aircraft will create over 100 jobs directly with bmibaby and hundreds more are expected to be created in and around the region as a direct response to the increases in services.
bmibaby will be introducing one aircraft for January 2007 with the additional two aircraft arriving in time for the start of the summer season.
bmibaby only started operations at Birmingham in January 2005 but has grown rapidly to become the major carrier at the airport. The airline also flies to Alicante, Amsterdam, Belfast International, Bordeaux, Cork, Edinburgh, Knock, Nice, Malaga, Palma and Prague from Birmingham International and is the only major low cost carrier to allow free travel for infants (under 2 years of age) on board all its flights
Earlier this month the airline launched another new double daily service from Birmingham International to Aberdeen which commences flying on the 29th October 2006. Bookings are already ahead of expectation and can be made online now at bmibaby.com.

[OltonPete]

Any rumors about possible new routes?

Only a couple of rumours which have been repeated here such as
Glasgow and Paris.

However I think BHX is thinking more like new destinations, Rome (ex BA)
has been mentioned, in fact Italy is absolutely pathetic from BHX with
just two BA 145's to MXP.

For summer there must be room for Rome, Pisa & Venice and if they
are after Bacon, MXP.

Also BHX is still a bit weak on ex Eastern block flights and Prague
could probably take two a day as well at the moment.

All good stuff for once unless BACON announce another round
of cuts or seat reductions (these RJ100's just keep slipping away).



Pete

[Fried_Chicken]

I see a couple of Wizz Minibuses have diverted to Brum tonight due to the runway closure at Luton. I know Wizz have diverted to Brum several times in the past so it appears to be their alternate should Luton be unavailable. Will we ever see them operating scheduled passenger services to BHX? They certianly have an interesting route structure

FC

[OltonPete]

FC

Considering the number of times they divert in and the lack of
Eastern European destinations from BHX you would expect a few
rumours but I can't say that I have heard any credible ones.

Centralwings, LOT and even Malev were rumoured a couple of
years ago but not Wizz.

Perhaps the infamous BHX landing fees have kept them away
on a more permanent basis.

Pete

[OltonPete]

Per CAA provisional stats for August: -

BHX-KRK 2177 pax or 121 per flight, 81% load factor.

Shame SkyEurope cease for 6 weeks until mid December.

Not sure how much money was made in August as there were offers, I believe
but at least an improvement.

Will Baby be looking East with their new routes?

Pete

[OltonPete]

Alicante, Bordeaux, Malaga, Nice & Palma released for summer 2007.

Obviously no new routes yet but certainly some major changes in respect
of times.

The Alicante and Malaga on a Monday - Friday has barely changed within
a 30 minute time span since 7/1/05.

However Malage now departs at 6am (Palma at 6.05am) which is 50
minutes earlier than the first departure now on a Monday - Friday.

Hopefully (for Joe public if not the crew) this is to fit in plenty of
new destinations.

Any news on potential routes?

Pete

[FougaMagister]

OltonPete

Pete - I gather you are talking ZULU time, aren't you? Otherwise I have made a habit of seeing these flights out an hour late... :=

I agree baby should definitely be looking East (and South-East, to Italy) for new routes, instead of doing more AGP/ALC/PMI etc. where there is a choice of probably half a dozen airlines (including the charter outfits) out of BHX.

Cheers :cool:

[legalize]

Rumour has it that BA are to contract out all ground handling!! I suppose all the "VULTURES" will now be fighting over who gets the contract. My moneys on Aviance..Then after they lose it 3 weeks later maybe Swissport,then servisair, then ASS.

[bmibabyfc]

baby to operate x3 flights on a saturday in the summer to AGP

should be very interesting to see the load factors....

regards

bmibabyfc

[bazzab68]

Does anyone know if the airline has applied for slots as they are due to commence ops within the next few weeks (:rolleyes:) and well slots are useful to have, well first an a/c might help as well. Heard it said they had an ex tap 310 but no-one has seen it and surely by now they must be fitting it and painting it for there launch

[CVTDog]

Shame I cant get a flight down to ALC on a Friday pm over the winter.

BMI's release is still too early fo next summer (13:20) and with MON at 06:45 I am hoping that FlyBe will have held onto the 15:15 slot.

Any guesses anyone ?

Now that MON & BMI have released (Summer 2007) I cant understand why FlyBe are dragging their feet. There customer services said "sometime in November" :ugh:

Do I try and book time off or wait hopefully for FlyBe to have retained 15:15 :confused:

[OltonPete]

The year 2006 will probably be classed as one to forget for BHX but
things seem to be hotting up for 2007. With Baby's announcement of three more aircraft for 2007 (rumour 10 by 2008) it has prompted flybe
to react.

Although I have not seen the ads myself, it is believed that they claim
to be (or will be) BHX's largest operator with 1.2 Million pax compared
to BA's 370000 (BACON is probably double this figure).

However the reality is that BHX goes down to four flybe based aircraft
from November (until March) whilst Baby are to add a sixth in January
and BA still have eight night stoppers and five early morning inbounds.

Anyone have any idea of flybe's plans or is this just spin in the
style of MOL?

Considering Baby will have eight craft with around 50 movements a day
(2 million+ seats) it will take some flybe expansion to match .

Pete

[jongeman]

The year 2006 will probably be classed as one to forget for BHX

Things can only get better. When I looked at BHX website earlier in the summer I was surprised at some of the glaring omissions from the European network, even given that BE proclaim BHX as one of their greatest hubs.

It'll be interesting to see where WW will operate next year. I'm guessing Shannon, Rome and Perpignan as definites, they could easily knock BA off BHX-BCN too and anything that competes with EMA's Polish routes would seem like a shrewd move (WAW?) I'd be surprised though if they started ARN or another Stockholm airport, it just doesn't seem like WW territory.

Answers on a postcard:)

[en2r]

It'll be interesting to see where WW will operate next year. I'm guessing Shannon, Rome and Perpignan as definites...

Answers on a postc
I'd say Shannon is very unlikely given Ryanair's dominating presence there. Bar Aer Lingus to Heathrow there are now no other short haul operators from Shannon to the UK and Ryanair will do everything possible to keep it that way.

[OltonPete]

Jongeman/en2r

Very little leaking out, which I suppose is the way it should be.

Also if they go down the 4/5 a week service there could be a load
of new destinations. PGF would be interesting as that would be head
to head with flybe but I would not be too surprised if they try
Shannon & Jersey.

Some routes as you say are crying out for services such as Rome,
Stockholm, Budapest (3 or 4 a week), Pisa, Venice and I assume
that there will be some BACON hunting such as Glasgow and
perhaps Paris.

I still find it hard to believe, 9 miliion pax a year but no Rome
or Stockholm but 15 EDI's, 12 Gla's & 11 CDG's (no lo cost) etc.
Supply and demand I suppose.

Pete

[Charlie Roy]

I still find it hard to believe, 9 miliion pax a year but no Rome or Stockholm but 15 EDI's, 12 Gla's & 11 CDG's (no lo cost) etc. Supply and demand I suppose.

That is a shocking statistic alright!!
Regarding Shannon, Flybe tried the route before. I remember on Sunday evenings my flight to Charleroi was at the same time as the BHX flight. Flybe's loads were very poor! But indeed I think someone else like WW could make it work. A bit of marketing like. Nice short flight too.
(Out of spite Aerlingus will probably then introduce SNN - BHX :} )

[Fried_Chicken]

I see Wizz operated a Gdansk flight through Brum early this morning (using an MD82) due to the nightly runway closures at Luton. Come on Wizz, start some flights from Brum, you know you want to! :ok:
Fried Chicken

[CVTDog]

. . . . if I'm getting boring but could anyone on the "inside" tell me of FlyBe's BHX to ALC route plans for next summer ?

As you are aware they have released all the southern routes leaving just BHX out in the cold for 2007 post March.

If they know their routes and slots for Southampton, exeter and Norwich why not BHX ?

I really am keen to know if they are going to do a 15:15 Friday to 19:35 Sunday as my family live by ALC and I am looking at time of work for the ZB and WW flights because theya re too early on Fri.

Thanks in advance ....


Rich

[splash&dash]

Flybe are building new offices in the middle of the remote 70's and 80's stands at the moment so an expansion of services looks promising :ok:

IMA possible routes desperately needed from BHX by anyone as previously mentioned are Rome FCO (much more convenient than CIA and was doing well before BACON ruined it with their ARJ) also Easy are virtually filling their A319s daily out of EMA and in competition with Ryan, VIE , ARN, GVA, CPH (give SAS some low cost competition!).

How about a crack at MOW?, RAK?, ATH?, OSL?, SOF?, LAX? (weight restricted 767 or 777?), ATL?, or BUD? anyone? or am i dreamin?:E

[OltonPete]

splash&dash

"How about a crack at MOW?, RAK?, ATH?, OSL?, SOF?, LAX? (weight restricted 767 or 777?), ATL?, or BUD? anyone? or am i dreamin?"

LAX - definitely dreamin;)

RAK - Maybe in the future, seems to be all the rage at the moment
ATH - I would use it but I don't think that is a particularly good basis
for a new service :) - could this be done as an overnight in
summer?
Budapest - Got to be at least 4 a week
Oslo - should be a service but what type - WW a bit big with 149 seats?
ATL - Bring it on but I fear a 757 to JFK is the best we can hope for
from DL in 2008 perhaps :ok:
SOF, MOW - If it was my money - no chance.
CPH - Definitely after SAS downgrading the evening to a Dash
ARN - :ok:
VIE - :ok:
GVA - Okay at the moment BACON daily and WW 5 a week in winter.

CVTDog - After Faro and Murcia were pulled for the winter I thought
that was it for the sun routes but rumour has it AGP and
ALC safe for next summer but can't help with the times
or frequencies.

Just want to know what flybe have in mind let alone Baby.

Pete

[Unionjet28]

Charlie Roy,

Regarding Flybe's SNN operation, the loads were not all that bad, even at the end. The real problem was yield after FR began the EMA route. Even in the final days, the loads were still quite healthy. Plus, break even load on the Dash 8 is quite low.

Certain days had low loads yes, but that's not uncommon. I was watching the loads on SNN-BHX with interest being from the SNN part of the world but employed by flybe at the time.

[Charlie Roy]

Fair enough Unionjet28
The 6 Sunday departures SNN-BHX that I witnessed last year were always less than half full. I found that poor. I talked to some of the passengers a few times (who were mainly Irish living in Birmingham) and it's true their general impression was that the loads were "... awwwright like".
But I admit, I only saw 6 flights out of I don't know how many.

Just my impression. I think a BHX-SNN could definitely work anyway ;)

[OltonPete]

Another dismal month :{ , a snip from the press release: -

"Birmingham International Airport (BIA) handled 949,935 passengers during September including 604,046 scheduled passengers and 345,889 charter passengers spread across the two passenger terminals. At just under a million passengers, September was one of the busiest months of the year for the Airport, but following the trend set last month after the security alert, was some 7% down on the previous"

Roll on November, December & 2007!!!!!!!!!!!!

The wait for WW & Flybe 2007 schedule is getting to be a long one.

Pete

[FougaMagister]

It's no secret that there is something seriously wrong with the way BIA markets itself - or should I say within the airports' commercial department - provided there is such a thing...

How come EMA has a much more varied range of leisure destinations (one only has to look at the paucity of Italian and Central European routes served from BHX), and it's not all due to Ryanair!

How come when WIZZAIR decide to fly to the Midlands, they go to Coventry - where their A320s will probably be weight-limited - instead of BHX, where they already have a handling agent (Aviance) which they use when weather-diverting from LTN?

Then again, one only has to look at the way EMA manage three based LCC operations on site (Ryanair, easyjet and bmibaby) to realise that they run a much smoother operation, low-cost-wise. BIA doesn't really seem to have woken up to the importance of this sector of the market - and if they indeed have, then they need to address problem areas such as PAX security hold-ups, stand allocation, airport facilities, landing fees, ramp congestion, etc. - which all conspire to make low-cost, fast turnaround operations out of BHX quite difficult when they seem more routine at EMA :ok:

Cheers :cool:

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Fouga

EMA's Commercial Dept are very active when looking for new airlines and routes. The chap there SBJ is Airline thru and thru, knows his stuff really well, and given the choice would sell his mother!. Me thinks BHX are a bit in the dark ages when it coms to attracting new airlines, loosing RYR is a good example. :\

[Centre cities]

If a major hotel let its rooms for next to nothing, the hotel would probably be full however it would not make any money.

Profit and Loss matter as well for airports as well as passenger figures.

If you look at the airline base for BHX and NEMA which has the more varied. If Ryanair pulled the plug because the fees increased what would NEMA be left with. A very dangerous game putting all you eggs in one basket.

Having said that I also feel that BHX could do a lot better, but to sing the praises of a chap who has attracted one airline, as second choice airport I may add, is possibly with a low cost deal is stretching it a little bit.

Thinking about it perhaps he should have the credit for the First Choice Long haul as well

NEMA is certainly, on the surface, having the better time of it at the moment however expansion for the Midlands be it BHX,NEMA or COV can be viewed as good.


Centre Cities

[FougaMagister]

For the record, Ryanair have NOT pulled out of BHX. They have taken away the once-daily Murcia and Gerona rotations when the special landing fees deal lapsed, but they still have the three-times daily BHX-DUB. They carry on doing them in spite of the high landing fees because of the very good average load factor on the route (I'd say upwards of 70-75%) and know that if they were ever to stop it, bmibaby or Flybe would take their place - or Aer Lingus would add more flights to their schedule.

There is a difference in being very active in looking for new airlines and routes, and actually landing new contracts... Not much new in that respect as of late at BHX. Don't misunderstand me, I think it's a pity. Working there, I know the airport could (and should) do much better.

Cheers :cool:

[hammerb32]

In all fairness EMA has added little recently in the way of new airlines, what it has gained is additional routes from Ryanair, yet Easyjet and BMIBaby seem content with their lot.

BHX on the other hand have secured an expansion from BMIBaby that will be comparable to the Ryanair expansion at East Mids, in addition BHX has added many new airlines in the last 2-3 years. Air India, Aerosvit, HLX, Monarch Scheduled spring immediately to mind. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying I'm satisfied with this by any stretch but it's unfair to say that BHX are not expanding in terms of new carriers.

[bmibaby.com]

Remember we've not seen all of the flybe summer 2007 schedule, as well as the announcement from bmibaby, so there might be plenty going around BHX next summer.

[FougaMagister]

Monarch Scheduled spring immediately to mind.(...) it's unfair to say that BHX are not expanding in terms of new carriers.

To call Monarch Scheduled a new operator is stretching the truth. It's Monarch Airlines doing a scheduled service instead of an IT charter (I happen to have worked for them).

Yet PAX figures are still down year on year at BHX...

Cheers :cool:

[Centre cities]

FougaMagister

Carnt see a problem with Monarch, the IT aircrafr still exists supplemented by 3 more aircraft for 2007 which operate scheduled services.

Agreed about the pax figures, but its the balance sheet at the end of the year that counts as well. The airlines may be content to pay a going rate at places like BHX and MAN where they may not be at other airports.

Centre cities

[bmibaby.com]

Has anyone else heard that Clickair might be flying into BHX and MAN next summer? They have bases at SVQ (good route considering the growing second property market on the Costa de la Luz as well as Seville itself being a fab city) VLC (similarly fab city and serving the already popular Costa Blanca) and BCN (surprising lack of competition between BA Connect and Thomsonfly.)

Any news when flybe will have all their S07 flights on the market, and whether we can expect any more based aircraft?

[Charlie Roy]

bmi

I saw Clickair's ideal routemap published in a Spanish news paper before they launched. The UK destinations I remember are Manchester and Southampton. No BHX as far as I can know :(

Anyways, all such planning is naturally open to change, so anything's possible...

[Fried_Chicken]

I've noticed that Air Class no longer operate out of Brum. Their flights are now being operated by European with a knackered old B732 or Flightline with a MD83

Fried Chicken

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

I`m sure I read that as the summer program comes to a conclusion that as there are only a small number of flights from both Manchester and Birmingham they had been contacted out, but I don`t know what has happened to their sole aircraft

G-I-B

[CVTDog]

.... regarding FlyBe Summer 2007 schedule from BHX ? It a bit frustrating - I have hung my hat on them being out by now, not having taken advantage of the BMI Baby firts day releases. Its a bit frustrating when they have revelaed their other schedules out of Southampton and Exeter etc....

Whats going on ? They should be able to reveal now with al all the other out for the summer (inc ThompsonFly @ CVT)

[OltonPete]

CVTDog

I might be wrong but I have never known flybe "summer" to be out
before November and Easy is usually the same.

I think it is the first time that any BHX BMI Baby flights have been released
this early but I would imagine it is to compete with ZB.

Although for once I am not particularly burning to book my summer
hols, I am hoping for some Italian destinations from Baby as I want
a short break in April/May.

My interest is down to the fact BHX has had such a bad year and
Baby now have the chance to really go for it at BHX and hopefully
flybe will react - but the wait is painful.


Pete

[CVTDog]

I think I was just a bit suprised that Flybe would hang on so long with both ZB and WW being available now. DOnt understand why or how they can get their other airports away for 2007 and leave BHX until November !

Changing the subject my last flight out to ALC on 06/10 was interesting in as much as that I have NEVER seen such long queues snaking all the way around from security - all the way past boots round to Frankiw and Bennys and then back towards the security gate. I joined the queue opposite the entrance by WH smith - took nearly 50 mins to get through. Dont know if something had happened that day. But its the worst I have seen since the August.

Didnt even get the chance of a beer before we were called ! :{

On the subject of bars

The bar service in the main Weatherspoons is so slow I have to use the little "island" bar outside it to get served. Its a shame 'cause it is well laid out furnished very nicely - if you can get a drink you can enjoy it !

[FlyboyUK]

Heard a rumour that BMI Baby might be moving across to T2 at BHX.

[jongeman]

Could T2 handle WW sufficiently? Since the bmi group have moved over to T3 at MAN, there've been check-in and security queues you wouldn't believe, especially in the mornings. They're apparently looking to move back to T1.

[brummbrumm]

Rumour has it that Baby will be taking over the "20"'s stands when they are brought into service, gives them room for all of their based a/c to be on the same apron instead of spread about all over the 40's 50,s 60's and 70's. Plus it frees up space on the 50's for any additional widebodies and new services that we hope BHX management will be attracting for the summer 2007 season.

[GayFriendly]

Brumm Brumm love the very slight hint of sarcasm in your post, myself i'm eagerly awaiting the Baby announcement about all the new routes they will fly to destinations already served from BHX (now surely Britains fastest shrinking airport):ugh: as well as the host of new carriers that i'm sure the Marketing Team will attract with their competitive landing fees and incentives - yes I know BHX has a high cost base and that at the end of the day it is a commercial outfit that can't operate on fresh air but honestly if other airports can manage then why not BHX?

On the subject of routes, does anyone know if Air Slovakia are still flying to BTS?? It seems to have disappeared from the website timetable! If so (and please i'd love to be proved wrong) it's yet another loss to the great BHX Destination graveyard in the sky (remember ARN, OSL, HEL, PSA, MRS, ORD, ATH, VCE, BGY, TRN, GRO, VIE, FCO anyone??) and yet another reason for NEMA to celebrate (I believe that BTS is one of the new FR routes). Go NEMA, go FR, I vote you the new Eurohub...............unless as I sincerely hope that Baby and Flybe see the potential there, stick their necks out and inject some much needed variety into the European routes from BHX..........

[banotok]

Brumbrum - what BHX management:( Never have so many routes been lost in a such a spectacular growth industry by what appears to be so undedicated a management team. Never has so much underdevelopment been witnessed by such a major city airport. Who was it said runway extension has been talked about for 30 years and still BHX seems to be light years away from the "dream" of non stop flights (gasp) to such faraway unvisited dull corners of the globe like LAX, HKG, YVR, SIN.

We are constantly told Birmingham is a world class city, and it is, so why such a Z category airport. Name any other city in the UK which has a world leading (size and quality) national exhibition centre and what is probably the only truly fully functioning international convention centre and no global class airport to serve it. YYZ MEL ORD BCN MXP etc etc etc etc etc must laugh their socks off.:ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[Fried_Chicken]

Yes, BHX-BTS is still flown by Air Slovakia (see the recent thread on Air Slovakia) However, almost everybody on the BTS flights were going onward to India & so not many people actually travelling to BTS itself so doubt the Ryanair flight from EMA will have much of an impact

FC

[OltonPete]

No BTS flights operated in September - CAA stats show nil and I think a just few hundred for August.

As FC has stated, the intention is to start again shortly.

Pete

[SeamusCVT]

Does anybody know which aircraft tend to operate the HLX CGN-BHX-CGN route and on which days of the week?

[TCX69]

HLX operates 5 days a week:

HLX3440/1 Arr 19:30 Dep 20:00 Mon, Wed, Fri, Sun
HLX3440/1 Arr 20:30 Dep 21:00 Thu
A/C: Fokker 100

But only until the end of October when the A/C and schedule then change:

HLX3440/1 Arr 19:40 Dep 20:10 Mon, Wed, Thu, Fri, Sun
A/C: Boeing 737-700

[SeamusCVT]

Thank you TCX69

[Daza]

Has there been any news for months? What is happening to Birmingham Airport? There have been rumours of DL,NW and several european airlines but none have come to fruision. BMIBaby are supposed to be basing a further 737 at Brum from January (then 2 more in summer) their leaving any new route marketing a little late it is almost November. Typical of BHX and based airlines most of the listed failures were through poor marketing,poor slot allocation or pure madness like BACON BHX-BHD????!!!

BHX needs new routes most have already reached saturation eg:ABZ!!!!!(From March there are 3 flights all landing early morning almost at the same time??),ALC,AGP,PMI we could do with VCE(again),MRS(again),VLC,BIO,LIS,SVQ,OPO,TRN(again),CIA,ATH (again)ARN(again),HEL,ATL,ORD(again),JFK(again),YYZ(again AC??) all more than do-able with the surrounding population indeed many have been done just not well, remeber BA-JFK first used a 767 then 757 then onto Toronto didn't operate much in winter used FLC aircraft one year!!!!!
Rant over Ill lie down in a darkened room now
Daza::} :}

[OltonPete]

Daza

DL - No rumours but with 10 ETOPS 757's by 2008 some are assuming
that BHX will be one. I still believe that a 763 to ATL would be fine
as an all year round destination but it is not on the radar - I suppose
they have better fish to fry at the moment.

NW- Depends on who you believe, 6 757's now allocated and according
to some that leaves one for 2007 and three more in 2008. The
consensus is that DTW-MAN will be the next one. However the
last pre announcement rumours were not that good compared to
DL where I think they were 100% accurate

US Air - This looked good but recent rumours seem to say Oslo has
got the nod rather BHX for the 757, with VIE getting a 762.
I believe the announcement is soon.

WW - Agree, very late for January and very few route rumours. I agree
with most of the destinations on the list, not sure about BIO.
Perhaps Budapest, Warsaw and more to Krakow as well?

Others - old rumours which have faded in time - LOT Warsaw,
AY Helsinki, Qatar Doha and Austrian Vienna.

CO goes double daily again from June 2007 for the summer and it
is rumoured AI goes daily at some point (sorry can't remember the date).

With Durham's Wizz announcement today, BHX will have the same or
less flights to Poland than Coventry, Bournemouth, Durham, Liverpool, NEMA, Doncaster, Belfast, Leeds, Luton, Belfast & Bristol (plus of course
LHR, LGW, STN and MAN - apologies to Scotland for my ignorance).

Have to say the wait for Baby and Flybe is painful but hopefully
November will bring the news!

Pete

[en2r]

I have just seen a Wizzair press release that was released today. In it they list new routes. One of which is Katowice-Birmingham/Coventry. Are they marketing Coventry as Birmingham east or are they undecided as whether to fly from Birmingham or Coventry?

[SeamusCVT]

Definitely flying from Coventry (CVT). Use of reference to Birmingham is for marketting purposes, as the country's 2nd city would be more well known to Polish residents

[Cyrano]

Marketing Coventry as Birmingham East?

That's nothing! Aerosvit (Kiev-Birmingham) are marketing Birmingham as London!

(Seriously - search Google for "Aerosvit", the second link is their English-language website, and when it loads, look at the ad on the right hand side. I believe if you book Kiev-BHX they throw in a free National Express ticket to Victoria! :sad: )

[GayFriendly]

Thanks for the info on BTS flights, lets hope the new incarnation of Air Slovakia does indeed include BHX in its route network.

Daza, am in total agreement with you - what is happening at Birmingham???? In the 15 years or so that I have been using it or simply following developments, I have never seen its route network in such a state. Its European routes are becoming completely overshadowed by others (EMA, BRS, LPL spring to mind), BHX has virtually no services to 'new' countries in the EU and it has just one destination in Italy (less than LPL and LBA) - quite simply its a disgrace. If Birmingham is meant to be Britains second city then why does it not have an airport that offers services to reflect that. No disrespect to CVT at all but it comes to something when Wizzair use it as their Midlands base yet market it as Bham in order (I assume) to sell more seats - why not fly into BHX if thats where they think punters actually want to go!!!!!!!! Because BHX will not offer competitive fees to entice new airlines or, more likely, were not even aware of the fact that Wizz were looking to fly to the Midlands - pure madness!! By my reckoning, LPL will have more European routes next summer than BHX, come to think of it in total it will nearly have the same number of destinations as BHX next summer (Please correct me if i'm wrong!).

As for our dear 'based' LCCs that play consistently safe and offer nothing in the way of variety, the less said the better. BE are obviously mainly SOU focused, ZB have simply filled Lite shoes (thats a good thing mind) and as for Baby, I see the latest announcement as nothing but a damp squib, all talk and no action. When the only route developments are on thin routes (ABZ) and directly against each other then what really is the point?? Why arent ZB offering BCN or Baby flying to VCE or CIA??

Even when it comes to long haul, BHX is starting to look a little tired, just the single US gateway offered by CO, I am sure both ATL and ORD could be made a success yet it all remains pure rumour and is likely to stay that way. At least AI is something to shout about. Summer 07 sees LPL-NYC, new GSM long haul developments from GLA (at least we have attracted a weekly flt to Hamilton, some good news), FCA offering Cuba from NEMA, (i'm sure it's only a matter of time before they get a service to Pakistan or India)...................i'm not saying that these airports shouldn't have long haul, as has been proved the demand is there and us passengers should have a choice of where to fly from that suits us, but surely BHX should be looking at attracting commercially sound new carriers/routes to stay competitive. I guess thats where the lack of runway length comes in:ugh:

BHX really needs to wake up and smell the AVGAS, due to management head in the sand attitude and a thoroughly uncompetitive cost base, its rapidly being left behind. If the Airport cannot see what is going on and actually starts to offer incentives, packages, whatever to carriers to attract them before too long BHX will forever be overshadowed by its more commercially aware, forward looking neighbours.

Rant over, I promise not to let myself out my padded cell again for a while:bored:

PS Any bets on how long will the Aerosvit route will survive, a mate who works at BHX tells me that it has never had over 50 pax on board. I cant find it operating on their timetable after March 07.

[Centre cities]

Yes but if there is more black ink on the balance sheet because the airlines pay to land that at some of the other named airports will they or the shareholders care less.

I doubt it.

Centre cities

[OltonPete]

It is a delicate balancing act and although I am no fan of BHX management it is not an easy job to please all.

However on a wider scale it is often mooted that more routes brings
more jobs and increases the profile of the area in general. Although
most routes are for the "locals" I believe that there is some mileage
in this argument.

Was it not rumoured that one US firm set up in Manchester as the airport had a greater range of routes and the city appeared more dynamic?

Sill I want to go Italy and I am going to :{ if someone doesn't start
a Rome or Pisa in 2007:) .

Pete

[banotok]

About the US firm. It is Bank of New York and the minimum job count was 750.

It is a fact that the more successful an airport the more success for that region and its employment prospects. Birmingham has everything in place except an airport suitable for the needs of a city region forced (like all other city regions) to exist, perform and develop in the global village of the 21st century.

I also take the point about shareholders not caring where their dividends come from but something as important as the airport serving the UK's second city and the surrounding region should not suffer from bad management. BHX pax figures are now beyond acute embarrassment for BIA management, they are a scandal. Also where are our local politicians??????

Sorry to have such a moan but those who live in the region are the one's left behind (on the M6 to MAN, M40 to LHR and most embarrassing of all the M42 to EMA just to get on a short hop to Europe) :( :sad: :yuk:

[bhx runway15]

I just hope the Baby and Flybe new destinations are not the ones being served already.You only have to look at the flights to Florida.At the moment you have 1 or 2 weekly flights which is complete joke.The only country you are spoilt to fly to is India with numerous airlines and cheap fares.But not everyone wants to go to India.

[egnxema]

BANOTOK

Is the M42 really that embarrassing to use - I have driven on it a few times and never felt anything different?

OltonPete

Pete - dry those upset eyes Pete - if you can cope with the alleged ebarrassing feeling drivers get on the M42 you will be pleased to know you can fly to CIA, BGY, PSA AHO & VCE from EMA in Summer '07.

;)

[banotok]

You missed my point entirely which was about services that should be operating (and in most point were) from BHX. It was nothing to do with the M42. I wish EMA good luck in their business plan. Their management team seem to be succeeding whereas the botch up called management at BHX goes from bad to barely describable.

[Ian Farquharson]

Fly Gibraltar, funded by The Rock, will initially lease two Boeing 737-300s and offer 11 weekly flights to Stansted, five to Manchester, five to Birmingham, four to Bristol and three to Dublin. The airline plans a pre-flight concierge service allowing passengers to pre-order hot meals, snacks, duty free goods, car hire and travel insurance, at the time of booking. Bookings are expected to open in December.

[Centre cities]

BANOTOK
OltonPete
Pete - dry those upset eyes Pete - if you can cope with the alleged ebarrassing feeling drivers get on the M42 you will be pleased to know you can fly to CIA, BGY, PSA AHO & VCE from EMA in Summer '07.
;)

Yes but not with the airline operating the services, oh well. with the airport name I guess you are not from nottingham then.


Centre cities

[jmc757]

Definitely flying from Coventry (CVT). Use of reference to Birmingham is for marketting purposes, as the country's 2nd city would be more well known to Polish residents

Surprising though as Coventry has a very large and thriving Polish community.

I have never seen its route network in such a state

I've never seen the departure lounge in such a state! Whenever I seem to use BHX in the last couple of years trhere is some kind of building work going on! I can't remember the last time everything was 'normal'?! Not a major issue I know. Got to admit it should look good but the work seems never ending...

On a side note anyone know what happened with bmibaby Prague on Thursday?! Collision with an airbridge rendered aircraft unflyable! Thanks to baby for the refreshment vouchers though, if only we'd been so well looked after in Prague when 5 hours delayed coming home :ugh:

[OltonPete]

egnxema

I can just about cope with the M42 and probably NEMA (still to use it), it
is FR that I can't cope with.

I got done when they pulled the Girona from BHX to NEMA, had to get
Trading Standards involved but to be fair one letter from them and
the money was back in my account in full. I also got a letter hoping
that I would use FR again and an apology for the delay :) .

I think I still have it somewhere, not framed ;) but I thought it could be
a collectors item in the future :O .

I have considered the Easy Venice and Rome but even Mrs P has said Italy from BHX only, just hope she has not
got a long wait.

Pete

[bmibaby.com]

bmi hasn't had much luck in the Italian market, and I wonder how quickly the airline, under whatever guise, would be interested in returning. bmibaby couldn't make PSA or BGY work from EMA, as well as quickly retreating from LIN and FCO at LHR. Personally I think bmibaby will add more destinations in France, Spain & Eastern Europe - including destinations currently served either by mainline or baby from other bases. I really can't see baby being radical, they never have been, though I wait & hope to be corrected.

flybe might make a better go of Italy like they've done with France & Spain, and now with flights to Germany. I don't think it's a lack of BHX's management for trying, but airlines are loathe to try something a bit different and out-of-the-box (unless they're Ryanair.)

[OltonPete]

bmibaby

It would be great if flybe did look at Italy but they did Bergamo in 2003
carrying 30070 pax in just over six months. I can't remember if it was
daily or six a week but it could have been the latter as I seem to
remember it averaging over 100 pax in July (5658 pax for the month).

For that service not to come back there must have been some cheap
fares and low yield.

I still hope that Baby will do something different for once and go for
some Italian destinations plus get on with announcing it as well.

Pete

[Daza]

This from their website today dont know what it means for BHX doesnt mention any new routes!!!
News
Flybe - Celebrating 20 years at Birmingham!
25 October 2006
Today, Flybe, one of Europe’s leading low cost airlines, announces plans to increase frequency on its hugely popular Birmingham to Glasgow service from March 2007 with plans currently being explored to operate the route hourly.
To mark the airlines 20 year birthday, serving over 14 million Midlands passengers with fast, frequent and efficient services Flybe will also be announcing a celebratory special fare of £13.99 on the Birmingham to Glasgow route, reconfirming its position as Birmingham's largest and longest serving low cost carrier.

Flybe has brought a greater travel choice and value for money to the region making Flybe the most frequent and cheapest option for air travel from the Midlands.

Mike Rutter, Chief Commercial Officer Flybe comments: “Birmingham has been a key base for Flybe over the past 20 years and we have always provided high frequency, low fares, and the best possible package for both leisure and business travellers and we intend to maintain our commitment to the region through investment in increased frequency, bringing greater travel choice to the area.”

“This latest announcement proves our intention to remain the number one low cost carrier from the region, by combining the most comprehensive schedule with the lowest fares and highest levels of punctuality and all round customer service.”

Flybe’s commitment to its business travellers has always remained strong, offering the most comprehensive business package in the UK, recognising the need to provide a low cost business service with its Economy Plus service:
Daza

[OltonPete]

Reported on a local forum that the new routes will be 2 x daily Glasgow
plus Faro and Murcia (I presume the January aircraft).

I think it said they were mentioned in a local Cannock paper.

Anybody out there to confirm?

I have just checked the website and have noticed some changes
such as Nice and Bordeaux reduced from 3 to two a week in the winter
but no new routes.

The Wednesday Nice and Thursday Bordeaux is not offered when
you go to book the flight.

Glasgow, Faro & Murcia would certainly be in keeping with BHX's new services - more of the same :*

Pete

[OltonPete]

It was rumoured that BHX was evaluated for a 757 service to PHL for 2007
but apparently the three new Euro routes will be: -

PHL - BRU 757 - year round
PHL - ZRH 762 - year round (aircraft possibly from BCN or AMS route)
PHL - ATH 333 - seasonal (aircraft possibly from Madrid route)

The 757 routes are rumoured to be: -

PHL- GLA, DUB, SNN, BRU, LIS, AMS or BCN and one spare.

The ATH will be payload restricted as well due range apparently
until he 762's are uprated to MTOW or the 332's are delivered (2009?)

Looks as if BHX will have to make do with CO, which will be
double daily from 1/6/07 for the summer.

Pete

[bmibabyfc]

ref the NEW baby routes from bhx i can confirm that they will be doing gla twice daily monday-friday and one on a sat and sunday

there will also be a murcia flight sun,mon,wed,fri i think and fao around 3 times a week.......

not bad routes but was expecting something major and NEW, all previous/current routes, however, i guess this time round more research has been done hence the reason i expect them to be very successfull!!!

what do you brums think of the routes ?

FAO was always popular from EMA and still is in on a sat, high fares though! MJV was also a busy route!

GLA, x4 daily from ema since we are the ony carrier from EMA on this route so of course its busy!

regards

bmibabyfc

[OltonPete]

bmibabyfc

The destinations are not surprising that is for sure, all BHX gets these days is more of the same. However with two more aircraft in Summer
I for one will be hoping for new BHX routes.

I have been told by various sources that the press release announcing
these routes was pulled at the last minute due to flybe's own press release stating BHX - GLA might go hourly.

Now I don't want to cast aspersions on any airline but taking notice
of flybe's press releases - are you having a laugh?

If Easyjet said they were going to do 4 a day (hell freezes over etc) or Connect are going to put 319's/733's on the route (even more ridiculous)
then you could understand, Baby thinking twice.

Flybe could manage it aircraft wise (not sure about crew wise;) ) but
I am sure they could find better routes rather than saturate BHX-GLA
and I can't believe they would waste 195's on this route in the summer.

All in all I think the decision is a dull but safe one but probably understandable with a Feb start. I expect better in Summer 2007.

Can you confirm that Glasgow is going to happen or is it under review?
Dithering, dithering, dithering, I think some at flybe will be having a
chuckle.

For those who think BHX - GLA will be saturated if Baby come along then
it is not that bad. Average seats available during winter 2005, 2262
(weekday) and from Monday 1920 approx, with two Baby 733's it
would only be 2516. If flybe went hourly from April well that would be
a different story.

Pete

[True Blue]

BmiBaby carries more pax on Bhz to Bfs on 3 flights weekdays than on Man - Bfs at 4 flights weekday. What is the chances that Baby would up the frequency on Bhx to Bfs and give Flybe a real run for their money?

True Blue

[OltonPete]

True Blue

Load factors have been great over the summer and the fact that it
is a quick rotation for the aircraft there must be a chance of getting
a forth with again the late evening one going to Knock on some days
during the summer peak.

The only worrying aspect is the yield, I keep an eye on the prices
and certainly two months prior they practically give away the flight.

I know that most domestic bookings are made in the six weeks prior
to the flight and this is when the fares increase but I am not sure if
they make much on this route.

That said, a fantastic result considering they were competing against
11 a day flights to the city on certain days (Monday & Friday) until
Bacon cut and run.

Pete

[jabird]

Pete,

Check out prices for flights booked in the last DAYS before departure, and you will see that yields to EDI & GLA are usually pretty good. Just nipped up to Glasgow this weekend, and none of the carriers were offering less than £65 for the outward. Top fares were in the region of £180+.

Am usually perfectly happy to get the train in this situation, especially as I could take my bike, and get lots more leg room on the return for another £15, but a lot of people have too many bad rail experiences to want to do this (they tend to give airlines a bit more tolerance). Virgin still don't really do proper yield management, so the max fare is never more than £88 return, and starting prices tend to be pretty similar to airport charges & taxes.

The three routes* mentioned above are utterly banal imho, and management certainly seem a bit muddled, but there no doubt is still a reasonable business case for them. If they really are looking at 60%+ capacity, maybe they want to announce a whole load of routes together, rather than a few at once, and hopefully some of these will be new destinations for BHX.

*Caveat before I get flamed - the routes are banal, NOT the destinations, plenty to see and do in all of them.

[legalize]

Any news on bhx operations this year? Will be be seeing saudi 747's again and anything else new expected?

[Ian Farquharson]

As predicted Glasgow, Murcia & Faro all now bookable.

Ian

[en2r]

Aer Lingus today announced an increase in Frequency on Cork-Birmingham

[OltonPete]

Aer Lingus today announced an increase in Frequency on Cork-Birmingham


en2r

Do you know what the frequency will be?

Hopefully both Baby and EI will prosper on the route.

Although Baby are part of the BMI group and prone to do anything
they do have a fairly strong brand in the Midlands and hopefully
will be able to compete with EI.

Pete

[Daza]

What another missed opportunity. Murcia already scheduled to be daily with ZB from March.Also Flybe operated the route last summer it will just equate to less charter passengers into ALC and LEI. Faro again the same will be daily with ZB from March and will just mean fewer charter seats on this route and FOR GOD SAKE GLASGOW!!!???:ugh: :ugh: Already over served by BACON and Flybe and has been consistantly loosing passengers all year!!! Another BHD I feel and again it will be BACON who will withdraw overall bad for Birmingham and bad for passenger numbers. Why not Valencia instead of MJV?, Seville instead of FAO?, and Shannon not Glasgow?
Rant over will lie down now in a quiet darkened room.
Daza

[OltonPete]

Hopefully this is just a shot at BACON & Flybe and the new routes will be
part of next announcement.

Although Glasgow looks a daft option it is not that bad with BACON weak
and flybe...well flybe, they probably see it as a soft option. Also as I have
said before compared to summer 2006 there won't be that many extra
seats a day to Glasgow unless flybe carry out their threat of going hourly.

Lets give them a chance and see what the next lot are, however I do feel
that Paris will one but there will be new new destinations..... I think :uhoh: .

What happened to the January 2007 aircraft? The two Durham aircraft
have still to be allocated - nice if you have the luxury to do so.

Pete

[en2r]

en2r

Do you know what the frequency will be?

Hopefully both Baby and EI will prosper on the route.

Although Baby are part of the BMI group and prone to do anything
they do have a fairly strong brand in the Midlands and hopefully
will be able to compete with EI.

Pete

They didn't say exactly but given that they currently operate four times per week I'd guess weekly. The link is
http://www.flyaerlingus.com/cgi-bin/obel01im1/Corporate/display_news.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@1621084269.1162326538@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccfaddjfgfeikjcefecfigdffgdfkl.0&P_OID=-8049&Category=0&NEWS_OID=536885993
It was announced as part of a raft of new routes including Cork-Manchester again in direct competition with Bmibaby. EI seem to have it in for Bmibaby

[en2r]

Sorry I said weekly I meant daily

[Big X]

Olton Pete, the 2 DTV aircraft have already been allocated to BHX.

[Hawk]

Thread closed. Part - 3 here
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=251024