Rumour: 2 Netjets pilots fired after wine apeared on hotel bill?

[Sensible Garage]

picked this bit gossip up the other day,

supposedly cockpitcrew had a bottle of wine on their Marriott hotel bill with late checkin combined with early start....

anyone with more details or the straight poop?

[redsnail]

Wasn't a late check in.
Not an early start.
I'm afraid I can't comment any further.

[RedBelt]

They have been fired mainly due to the fact that the place of their contracts is in Isle of Man with ramifications to Cayman Islands... So NetJets can do and say whatever they want. No lawyer is able to grab NetJets.

[Margarita]

So what were their big sins?

[p_ace]

There appears to be very little detail here. These pilots could have purchased a crate of wine.

In a court of law that is not evidence that they drank it

The only acceptable evidence is through proper blood tests.

I am not a lawyer but I would think that you have to operate under the laws of the country you operate in.

As Net jets have bases in Europe blatant disregard of European employment laws and rights would mean that the company could still be penalised should they wish to continue their operations in Europe.

As I said there is very little detail here to make any sort of judgement on.

[silverhawk]

IF they have reason to appeal, they have no venue or opportunity to do so.

They join an ever increasing number of disgruntled ex-employees.

[checklist69]

As I said there is very little detail here to make any sort of judgement on.

But, p_ace, you seem already to have pronounced judgement on Netjets!

:uhoh:

'69

[simmatt]

Netjets with UK employees are employed under UK law, no question. Look at our Cathay friends, PAYE UK base, UK law. (LAW LORDS)

In this instance it appears that the chaps in Portugal have met people who know how it works and will not be got rid off just because the managment have other thoughts.

Hotel bills are not proof that wine was drunk, are you rested? well thats down to your opinion, look at the law. And ask netjets about reduced rest etc etc etc.

They have for a long time been " we can do what we want "

Watch and learn is all I can say I think we have some guys that will stand up.

BUT also remember mud sticks and its hard to shift so we should all remember innocent untill 100%i n a court proven guilty.

Is the company always right???????

HELL NO

[Treetopflyer]

Too little information given in this thread to figure out whether the company's decision was justified or not... Some here seem to know more but aren't ready to share... Whatever their agenda is... I say: tell all or tell nothing...

Sad story anyway for the company's reputation, for the crews involved, and for the f:mad: hotel staff who are lame enough to play these kind of games... :{

Out of curiosity: in which Marriott did this happen?

[EatMyShorts!]

Marriott Courtyard CDG.

Actually a similar incident (hotel staff sending information to an airline) has ocurred a few weeks earlier in this hotel, it was just another airline.

This really stinks.

[p_ace]

But, p_ace, you seem already to have pronounced judgement on Netjets!

:uhoh:

'69


I have not pronounced judgement on NetJet as I do not know the facts other than the very sketchy outline which started this thread.

My two points are first any foreign registered company cannot work outside of the country laws they operate in.
Being foreign registered doesnt give immunity.

With European employment laws you cannot sack someone on a suspicion.
Wine on the hotel bill in itself is not hard evidence.
An individual going to a tribunal would be able to sue if the correct sacking procedures were not followed.

For all I know there may have been hard evidence and NetJets may have been within their full rights in disposing of these two pilots.

[aerojul]

one sentence: boycott the mariott.:mad:

[Margarita]

...or cheap wines...

[silverhawk]

You can be sure that neither guy was Portuguese.

Local management pilots make it very difficult to offload any old Air Force buddies, no matter how sub standard they are or how severe their 'crime.' I had a line trainer who managed a runway incursion on my very first line training sector only 10 seconds from the apron. I reported it to a management bod. What did they do? Promote the guy! Of course the chap was a long time Air Force buddy. In the next 20 sectors the same guy tried to igore the MEL (stall warning system) and managed to start the engines with the fuel truck parked right behind the aircraft(within 5 metres).

Same old story, no place to take a grievance to.

Eventually, after 16 months,I just faxed my instant resignation at the end of a tour. What did they do? Cancelled my company credit card so I had to buy own ticket home.

[susi]

So the next time we get a Hotel accomodation that is not suitable, by JAR OPS definition, and we do not get enough rest- this is a safety issue isn't it! So who can be sacked for reserving non suitable accomodation?

[Looooong haul]

Silverhawk, (or should I say redbelt) what is your problem? You are living in the past and it is sorry to see you getting back on old stories ALL the time. Guys like you tend to get heart or bloodpressure problems. Get a life :hmm:

Regarding this issue does anybody have specific details? :confused:

[scambuster]

yep_but its unlikely they will be discussed in this open forum!

[silverhawk]

I'm in great shape thanks. Just not one for rolling over when someone tries to shaft me.

Seems the details are with the legal eagles.

It's the same old stuff over and over from Lisbon.
eg. Captain diverts to an airfield that his aircraft is certified for and explains to customer that their airfield of choice is not legal in this aeroplane. Sales forgot to tell the customer this important detail! Result is---Captain is 'fined' by Netjets.

The point is, there is nowhere to contest this decision, either take it or leave.
Maybe you think I'm harping on, but nothing has really changed in 7 years.

Oh I forgot about your dangleberries.

Length of service means nothing, only protection is being a Portuguese national.

PS I'm not Redbelt

[happyjack]

Being Portuguese certainly helps but it seems to me there is no ultimate imunity to the wroth of NJE management.
Ask yourself a question here however... PC and all others of interest........why the more acceptance of the Portuguese? Is it because the management are all Portuguese? No! Not at all.
Maybe just because the company being based in Portugal, (apparently), means they are not entirely immune to Portuguese Employment Regulations!!!!!!!!!!
Particulary if the employee, (ex-employee), happens to be a Portuguese Resident!!!
Being part of the EU is not all bad!!!!

[zombieaa]

ive heard rumours that the involved crews were reported by the hotel for drinking within 8hours of flight???? If that is the case I don't really see a way to defend the crews and I don't think it willl matter what courts they can take the arbitration to, nor what nationalties they are.

[Margarita]

So was the hotel in charge for their flight schedules? How can they know what time their duty time was to start? They should concentrate only for the customer service, period!

[Buter]

Crew were reported to have purchased wine, not consumed it, outside of eight hours before being on standby duty. Management took it upon themselves to conclude the rest to the detriment of a couple of good crew.

[pilotbear]

...or cheap wines...

J
You are very funny
M:cool:

[Pretzel]

You can be sure that neither guy was Portuguese.

Local management pilots make it very difficult to offload any old Air Force buddies, no matter how sub standard they are or how severe their 'crime.' I had a line trainer who managed a runway incursion on my very first line training sector only 10 seconds from the apron. I reported it to a management bod. What did they do? Promote the guy! Of course the chap was a long time Air Force buddy. In the next 20 sectors the same guy tried to igore the MEL (stall warning system) and managed to start the engines with the fuel truck parked right behind the aircraft(within 5 metres).

Same old story, no place to take a grievance to.

Eventually, after 16 months,I just faxed my instant resignation at the end of a tour. What did they do? Cancelled my company credit card so I had to buy own ticket home.


Sorry ..but what did you expect them to do?! Keep you on your credit card..!? It doesnt take a genius to work that one out... especially that you had finished your tour...

Lesson Learnt : :oh: Next time you will probably think twice about resigning before reaching home...

the part about the "portuguese air force buddies.. " Totally forgot that the RAF were totally against that... as far as I am aware.. most of the Top management are Foreign.. One or two of the fleet managers being portuguese and the rest foreign... Did you report the incident to the Safety officer by any chance!??

[silverhawk]

Yes next time I would wait til I got home. I actually stayed an extra day at end of tour to dig them out of a hole! Then had to pay own fare home.
They did actually reimburse me afterwards and cited an admin error.

As far as the safety officer, yes of course I did and the fleet manager and the chief pilot and the ops director. All of whom have since been replaced on a regular basis

[Flintstone]

Yes next time I would wait til I got home. I actually stayed an extra day at end of tour to dig them out of a hole! Then had to pay own fare home.



Depressingly familiar.

[badgerpuppy]

chaps,

does seem a bit ridiculous to have a go at someone for posessing a bottle of wine dosen't it.

Seems more likely to be that the company may have had enough of these guys putting bottles of it on their credit cards?

Just an observation.

BP.

Way out of line my man. By all means express your opinion but if you insult the other members of the forum in this manner again it'll be your last post. Offending language removed. 4HP

[silverhawk]

I hope you've got the evidence to back such a statement. If not I suggest you utilise the edit function and quickly.

[simmatt]

Badgerpuppy:ugh: ,

Making such a statment is mad, you have no foundation for such a comment.

The facts are nothing like that. Please edit now and think before you type in the future.

When all is over and done with between the company and the people I am sure they will tall all. I know that there is some big legal gunns about to rip into Lisbon.

In the meantime maybe the world should watch and wait rather than making such stupid comments.

[checklist69]

This is probably the most puerile statement I've ever seen on these pages. I hope you've got a good lawyer, Badgerpuppy.

'69

[Flintstone]

chaps,
does seem a bit ridiculous to have a go at someone for posessing a bottle of wine dosen't it.
Seems more likely to be that the company may have had enough of these guys putting bottles of it on their credit cards?
Just an observation.
BP.

Badgerpuppy. I sincerely hope you have the evidence to corroborate that remark. If not you have just committed libel. Just because you are on an internet forum that does not grant absolute anonymity.
The lawyers of those involved will be contacting the moderators of this forum requesting your ISP details.

Please all calm down - badgerpuppy was way out of line & I have removed the offending language. Please avoid wasting my time with lawyers letters & demands - it will get you absolutely nowhere. 4hP

[Flintstone]

4HP, many thanks for doing the necessary. The most offensive comment has been deleted.

Badgerpuppy is still suggesting that inappropriate charges were made on company credit cards though. Will he be posting evidence of this or retracting his statement completely?

[badgerpuppy]

Chaps,

As i said, just an observation, did not mean to stirr all of this stuff up.

Just wished to say that it looked a little daft to sack someone for their posessions, and that perhaps there was more to it. If someone had done what i was suggesting, then perhaps they were what i was suggesting.

Obviously not.

Honestly did not mean any harm and have no evidence and am quite prepared to be contacted by anyone who so wishes and will stand in the flack if it comes.

oops.

BP.

[Bikerpilot]

The crew members concerned are 100 % innocent of all charges.

2 have been fired, 2 others given written warnings for " failing to ensure they received adequate rest."

The accusations follow a report made by a hotel receptionist . This report has been pulled apart by the pilots and their respective legal teams.The Pilots have launched an appeal against their dismissals.

They are not disputing the fact that alcohol was signed for. It was not consumed by the pilots. It was consumed by an off duty engineer who was on a day off the next day.

There is no proof against these pilots which will stand up in a UK court of law.

[Kelly Hopper]

Life in NJE, or soon out of it, is not a case of having to make mistakes to get fired. Management rule by fear so when your number is up you will be singled out and made an example of. Unfortunately no-one has the b.lls to take a stand collectively against this so the situation perpetuates.
one would have hoped that now DM has expired things would have changed but I guess the disease has progressed beyond any hope of recovery!:yuk:

[spernkey]

I get it now - all kinds of unsupported assertions can be made here against the big (bad) employer - but best not say anything about the precious crew who just COULDN'T have been less than perfect:confused: .

I bet the company find it real easy to take the action they did and put themselves to all that bother when they could just do nowt and reap a bit of easy life?? Re-rostering and ultimately recruiting is a pain so i reckon they just might have prefferred not to have to bother?

The crime, of course, is getting caught.:eek:

[simmatt]

There is an appeal hearing in the next week or so, those people involved have 4 witness statements confirming that what the company claims did not take place.

Those witnesses (3 are still employees) will and have told the company that were it to go to court they will be there on the behalf of those wrongly dismissed.

Let’s hope the "big bad company" use there heads and see the mistake that has happened.

The greatest of us have made mistakes and even NJE management can say sorry.

The guys just want to go flying.

I hope this reads better than my earlier post, any thoughts from those in Jersey?

[lucille]

Biker Pilot..........check your pm's.