NOISE ABATMENT OUT OF LHR

[sing330]

Can anyone please tell me the correct procedure for a Dover Six Juliett departure or any Dover dep out of LHR. I would prefer if this comes from someone working in the UK ATC system. Since there isn’t a VNAP "A" or "B'' Jep chart for a noise abatement procedure at LHR unlike Frankfurt or many other European airports and there is only a noise preferential route.

My question is can someone set climb thrust at 1000' AAL and select a V/S to conform with the 243' per NM (4 %) up to 4000'. I have been told off by LHR dep that "the next time I want to maintain a slower speed to please inform the tower prior to take-off". On this occasion I had set the acceleration altitude at 3100' and maintained V2 +10 till 3100'. This was on A340 at 270 tons.

Last week a friend of mine who works for a UK operator told me that there is something in the UK AIP stating that in all UK airports no aircraft may accelerate below 3000' AAL unless stated otherwise.

Therefore my question again is why doesn’t Jepperson state this in the LHR departure chart and if this is correct I am up for a lot of noise violation fines from ATC at LHR.

Thanks for your time,

Sing 330

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

This guy emailed me privately and I told him I could not answer most of his queries. However, I did explain that UK ATC is not involved in noise abatement other than following the rules. ATC at Heathrow CANNOT levy fines for noise violation as they have nothing to do with it - it's down to the airport authority, which is a different organisation.

[120.4]

HD

The apparently slow acceleration of A340s has led to significant safety concerns at TC and I believe they are required to advise ADC before line-up if they cannot accelerate to 250kts in the anticipated way. My understanding of this (which is seriously open to question being an approach man) is that at 1000'AAL they should accelerate to 250kts.

I cannot remember how long ago since you left us but generally we take the A340s (certainly the 300 series) around the outside on 09R CPTs because in order to deliver the acceleration they climb like a brick.

A number of 1261s have been filed on this.

Point 4

[cossack]

sing330
I don't believe the UK uses the VNAP A & B profiles. It is left up to the pilot to decide how best to fly their machine within the guidelines of the minimum climb expected. It was not uncommon to have two aircraft flown by the same company fly completely different profiles back to back. This was fine when the faster (VNAP B type) was first, but have the slower one followed by the faster and problems occured.
Most UK TMA controllers, until recently anyway, would remove the speed restriction almost immediately on departures to get the traffic away from the airport as quickly as possible.
Where I work, pilots intending to use an A profile must inform ATC prior to departure so extra separation can be built in behind to accommodate the initial slower airspeed during the climb. All our jet departures follow the same tracks and the Tower is required to separate them by 3 miles or wake turbulence minimum. So you can see, an unexpectedly slow climb by the first departure would result in a rapid catch up.
The A procedure is usually flown by traffic that has to make a large turn after departure so that it can get to the noise termination altitude quicker and be turned on course. Some (very few actually) heavy types use it unless they are really heavy and need to use most of their performance for climb rather than acceleration.
So to summarise, if you plan to use an A type departure profile, UK ATC isn't expecting it, so tell them, ideally well before you reach the runway.
Hope that helps.

[sing330]

So with all your input the way I understand it is that accelerating at 1000' AAL is in order at LHR as long as you can maintain the climb gradient required for the departure and reach 250 kts ASAP.

Can any of you find a document which states that the minimum acceleration altitude is 3000' AAL at all UK airports? A senior pilot flying for a large UK registered airline told this to me or is he wrong?

Sing 330

[TopBunk]

Can any of you find a document which states that the minimum acceleration altitude is 3000' AAL at all UK airports? A senior pilot flying for a large UK registered airline told this to me or is he wrong?
Sing 330

Maybe what he meant is that the minimum transition altitude is 3000ft in the UK. Maybe just a simple confusion of terms?

[30W]

There is no minimum acceleration altitude in the UK.

You may fly either of the 2 accepted noise vertical profiles(A or B), depending on what your company SOP's are based upon..

Some countries/airports stipulate if either A or B must be used, the UK does not, leaving you the choice.

30W

[Point Seven]

From the LHR section of the UK AIP:

"If for any reason pilots are unable to comply with the 250 kt IAS speed limit the pilot should immediately advise ATC and state the minimum
speed acceptable. If a pilot anticipates before departure that he will be unable to comply with the speed limit he should inform ATC when
requesting start-up clearance, stating the minimum speed acceptable. In this case the pilot will be informed before take-off of any higher
speed limitation."

Hope this helps:ok:

P7