VS75 into MCO Friday 7th July.

[Keygrip]

Nothing for the press to get excited about - and I'm nothing more than curious (from an instructional point of view for wannabees).

I was operating about 70 miles South of Orlando International yesterday and was monitoring 121.5 on Com 2.

I heard VS75 come on frequency and be told to talk to Approach on 119.4. Out of curiosity I followed it and then heard what apeared to be (without me being able to see the "big picture") some of the most miserable attempts by ATC to sort him out after what sounded like a go-around on one the southerly runways.

A heading in the 300's - a climb (to altitude) 4000 - sorry traffic there, take vector 240° - climb to altitude 6000...and on it went (but I had to leave frequency to do my own stuff).

I'm curious as to how much extra fuel it used (and how much it landed with (but I'll never know that)) - and if there's any "diversion planning" lessons to be taught to newbies from this event.

I heard an American Airlines doing the same go-around (due thunderstorm weather over the airfield if I understood correctly) - so it's not a VS problem. Nothing more than curious as to the fuel implications with a 747 after a nine hour trip across the Atlantic (and was ATC as bad as it sounded).

[hoofhearted]

If there were Cb's forecast I am pretty sure the guys would have additional fuel. Virgin is very good with commanders fuel decisions so long as no one takes the p@ss.:ok:

[arewenearlythereyet?]

Normal planning will allow for approximately 10 tons of fuel on arrival. Alternate #1 will usually be KSFB if WX forecast is good otherwise KTPA or anywhere the WX is forecast to be better. Min diversion fuel will usually be around 7 tons depending on alternate. Crew will have discretion to add extra fuel as they see fit. This time of year with a lot of convective activity, many will add a bit extra for precisely the situation described. The US ATC are notorious for descending aircraft early and then dragging them in low, slow and dirty, thereby using up more fuel than is usually planned for. Throw in extra vectoring for CB's and most crew will want to arrive with at least 10 tons if not more. Go around and vectoring for another approach will leave them with less but with 4 parallel runways at KMCO it shouldn't be a problem and they would probably have landed after that go around with more than the minimum diversion fuel required for their preferred alternate airport.

[Keygrip]

So how long would that extra 10 tons last at those altitudes and weights?

ATC sounded awful, crew "tone of voice" suggested all was more than well - obviously not of concern, just approaching frustration. ATC were trying to figure which runway of the four was least affected.

I'm not even starting to suggest there was a problem (apart from crap ATC) just would like to use the example for student advice in the future (they all want to fly for VS anyway).

I know that SFB and TPA are 1st and 2nd on the divert list - but why not MIA when they already have service agents there? Just wondering about the business model of it all.

[Manual Reversion]

I'm off to MCO in a few days time operating the VS16. Certainly, Keygrip, we don't have 'cast in stone' alternates (SFB/TPA).There are plenty of other alternates.
It all comes down to 'airmanship' and one wouldn't roll up to Orlando with 'summer' weather forecast and low fuel.
After nine and a half/ ten hours, one is certainly not looking for long winded radar vectoring, however that goes with the job.
Rest assured though, that a go around and, if needs be, a diversion would all have been taken in to account at the planning stages and at regular intervals thereafter!

[Keygrip]

M.R. - fancy a beer?

Guys, I used to work on air taxi - single crew, IFR stuff (hardest of the lot?) - I understand the deal with regards to trip planning - but I've never done it for something as big as a 74 and I've never done a non-stop nine hour flight.

I was just trying to see if I could use the example for training - as I do with the Tenerife and the Flying Tigers incidents (and a Virgin delay into LGW (but that was my fault)).

[flying2low]

additional fuel = 10% of fuel required in minutes (9 hours =540 minutes = 54 minutes) + alternate fuel + holding fuel = plenty!!