Log books

[Wazzoo]

Hope I've come to the right forum and you guys can help me here.

The background is, I spent a number of years as an RAF cadet and during that time I did a number of powered air experience flights (AEF), gliding AEF, a gliding scholarship and a RAF Flying scholarship of 20hrs with Tayside. (This was all 5-8 years ago now, since done a gap year and four yr degree)

My problem is that I'm looking at continuing my flying now, and more importantly have a possible interview coming up where I'll need to show what hours I have. But at the moment all those hours are in my service book which is almost falling apart (went through the wash a few times while I was a cadet!). The inside is perfectly legible but the covers are a shambles and I want to get it into something neater.

So..on to the questions..

1. From what I gather from looking through similar posts on this forum about log books, it should be ok for me to pick up a proper log book (I have a Pooleys Flying Log book sitting here in front of me) and copy all the flights into that?

2. What should I do about signatures? All the flights were signed off by instructors (or myself on solos). Is it ok just to copy the flights up without signatures into the new log book and leave it at that, since I have the originals still in my old service book should anyone need to confirm things?

3. Similarly related to the need for signatures, under the remarks column of the log book it says 'including counter-signature for P.I/S'. However I was all my training flights were recorded as PUT, surely I still need a signature from my instructor for those? (note the previous point, if I can just refer back to my service book for signatures then ignore this)

4. The most important thing for me is recording my 20hrs in C152s from the flying scholarship. However is there any worth in putting in the AEF flying? It doesn't really count to anything, it wasn't any part of the PPL training..not even sure what I would record it as as I was hardly PUT. Just some basic handling stuff while making holes in clouds, however it does amount to a good 4hrs of flying. Also my gliding time, aother 8hrs, but don't see any way I can effectively record that in the log book since its all geared to powered flights (single-engined/multi-engined columns etc).

Apologies if some of the answers are obvious and I'm missing the point somewhere along the line. Appreciate any advice you can give!

[S-Works]

gliding does not count. the AEF does not count.

The 20hrs in the 152 can be copied into the new log book. You do not need a signature on the entries, all you need is at the end of the course the CFI/Examiner to certify the entries are correct and you have met the requirements for the training. So you will probably need to show him/her the old log book at the time if required.

The only time you need a signature is on the 2 year revalidation log book and licence and on successful completion of a skills test.

However...... Personally I would not bother copying them, I would just add the numbers up and start off your new log book with those (20hrs) and log your new stuff by adding to them. There is a section at the front of a look book that records flying experiance previous to the new logbook. Fill that in. I am on my 5th logbook now and just carry the numbers forward.

Any logbook you write these hours into initially is a part of your history and even if it is a bit tatty it is still a memento. I would not part with my RAF logbooks nor gliding for anything.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I was in a pretty similar position once.

I bought a shiny new civilian professional logbook, copied the flights up, and tucked the completed pages of my tatty military logbook in the back, which contained all of the relevant signatures. They're all still there, and CAA who have seen my logbook more times than I care to count, have never batted an eyelid at the method. If you'd rather just keep your RAF logbook intact on the shelf, tuck photocopies of the relevant pages in the back instead.

With regard to bose-X's statements about gliding and AEF not counting - he's right so far as issue of a civil powered licence is concerned, but for interviews, etc. where you might want to demonstrate your total flying experience (and just for personal record) it's probably worth copying them up - just recycle two spare columns for the glider and passenger (AEF) hours, so that it's clear that you aren't claiming those hours for issue of a PPL(SEP), CPL(A), etc. (It's easy enough to make up stickers on your PC to relabel the columns of a logbook - I do this also, since my flying falls into more separate categories than most peoples I need to).

G

[S-Works]

of course the only problem with relabelling columns is you are committed to it every page of the logbook for life.......:)

[Genghis the Engineer]

of course the only problem with relabelling columns is you are committed to it every page of the logbook for life.......:)

Not really, I change the column labels every year or two when the pattern of my flying changes. Take's a little thought and care, but not much.

For example, it's now about 10 years since I last flew in an ejection seat, but about that time I started to get serious about taildragger flying. So, the "ejection seat hours" column now records "taildragger hours", I can always look back a few (!) pages if I need to check that. Similarly, I did allocate two columns to glider P1/PiC, but realised that I'd never get serious enough about gliding (for the moment...) to go solo, and this was about the time that I got involved in experimental simulator assessments, so the "glider P1" column [empty] got relabelled "simulator exp."

It's easy enough, honest! Right now, columns 1-14 of my logbook (an old Pooleys commercial) read:

- Microlight, 3-axis (Dual, P1)
- Microlight, weightshift (Dual, P1)
- SEP (Dual, P1)
- Other dual (Glider, SLMG)
- Simulator (Experimental, training)
- Night
- Instrument
- Flight Test Observer
- Tailwheel

Ask me in a year, it'll probably be slightly different (particularly as I'm hoping to finally get around to my MEP next summer).

G

[S-Works]

way to complicated! Thats why you are an engineer and I am a mere pilot. :O

[Whirlybird]

I do something similar. My helicopter log book has the "multi-engine night" column re-labelled for instructing hours, and the "other flying" column for turbine hours. If I ever stop instructing, I'll probably make a note in the back of the log book of the total instructing hours, and abandon that column. My f/w long book has a separate column for microlight hours, but I think I'll abandon that now, and just make a note.

I'm still using small size PPL log books. They're not so big to carry around, and I have this idea, when I'm old and grey and no longer allowed to fly, of getting them all bound together, so I want them to be the same size. The trouble is, now that I'm instructing nearly full time, I fill one page of the helicopter log book approximately every two days!!!

Anyway, so long as it's all clear and legal, the CAA don't seem to mind exactly what you do.

Genghis and I just lead complicated flying lives, or at least appear to. :)

[Genghis the Engineer]

This is true, neither Whirly nor I fit any standard aviation model.

I confess, I'm very glad that I took the decision early in my flying career to buy a good quality commercial logbook - I'd hate to think how many PPL logbooks I'd have got through by now. That said, I do keep a small PPL logbook in my flight bag, which is scruffy and expendable - my main logbook lives safely at home.

G

[Whirlybird]

I'd hate to think how many PPL logbooks I'd have got through by now

I console myself with the thought that my collection will look awfully good when it's bound together in leather, when I'm about 93. :)

(I wonder if they'll let me fly till I'm 93. I wonder if I'll even want to)

[Whopity]

Wazzo

do you really believe having a Bull**** logbook will make the slightest difference to anything? If you don't like the old one carry forward your hours to the first line of a new log and carry on from there!

[Wazzoo]

Thanks for the replies guys, appreciate the advice. I thought as much, I'm not fussed about copying up the other hours but want to get the PPL hours in there. I'll definately be keeping the old log book for memories sake as well as for the records/signatures etc!


However...... Personally I would not bother copying them, I would just add the numbers up and start off your new log book with those (20hrs) and log your new stuff by adding to them. There is a section at the front of a look book that records flying experiance previous to the new logbook. Fill that in. I am on my 5th logbook now and just carry the numbers forward.


Wazzo

do you really believe having a Bull**** logbook will make the slightest difference to anything? If you don't like the old one carry forward your hours to the first line of a new log and carry on from there!

Amazing how two people can say the same thing but one come across as genuine and helpful but the other as condesending and impatient.

My old service book is in tatters - beyond just 'well worn' - and to be honest, no I don't really want to have to hand that over in an interview when they asked to see what hours I've done. Although I will have it there if they want to confirm anything.

[SparkyBoy]

I've been told quite recently that your log book is your personal log and it is your responsibility to maintain it. The details are yours to do with what you please and if that includes transfering them to a bright pink fluffy book with tassles then that is your choice - but you must have one!
In this case, the signatures are irrelevant and only act as a reminder of who actually instructed you.

IMO, not transferring the information to a new log book would be more of an issue for the aviation authorities than losing a few signatures.

Good luck in the interview ;)

Cheers

Sparky