plugging a camcorder into headsets

[escobar]

Hi,

I'm looking for something to plug my camcorder into my headsets so that i can record when i'm back seating for my IR, and not have the engines muffle out all the audio At the moment I have a set of David Clarks but i might upgrade to bose. Ideally I am looking for headsets that'll offer me an easy way of plugging my camcorder in? Any ideas?
thanx

[Donandar]

Can you legally record transmissions?

[escobar]

Can't you? Why not? As long as both student and instructor agree surely anything that is recorded is their copyright then? If you can't legally record anything then why are people allowed to listen to black box recorders or ATC to listen to tapes of past transmission? I haven't signed anything to release my copyright to anybody therefore i thought it was a free for all?

[Paris Dakar]

I think Donandar may well be right.

However, the easiest and cheapest way is to buy a small clip-on mike from the likes of Maplins and place the mike inside one of the cups of your headset (assuming your camcorder has a ext mike jack plug).

[Paris Dakar]

.......I think it's covered here..http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=206063

[escobar]

Looks like i'll just be video recording the sim then :} Ah well thanx for that

[splatt]

escobar,

To record your training is an excellent idea. Recording your performance is a well known technique used by top performers in any number of occupations from soccer players to aerobatics pilots.

You didn't say it was a sim initially, and I think that has brought about some of the replies regarding legality. However legal or not, if you can safely record your performance in training and the recording is ONLY USED BY YOU to critique your own performance and improve upon it for next time I cannot see any trouble with it. Be it in the sim or in the air. There may be a law against listening to ATC transmissions but for heaven's sakes its completely unenforceable because anyone who is going to abuse it is going to do so regardless of there being a law or not, it only hurts those who would use it legitimately.

All the best in your training.

splatt

PS. How about something like this? Found through google: http://www.aircraftpatchcord.com
From AircraftSpruce (big supplier to folks who build their own planes) Search for Part number 11-00692 (http://www.aircraftspruce.com)

[sicky]

What a good find that is!!

[escobar]

Splatt, this is exactly what i'm looking for, thank you :ok:
Initially i had intended to use it in the aircraft as well, i really only wanted to listen to the instruction over and over and to hopefully see on the ground any mistakes which i couldn't grasp in the air

[BigEndBob]

I remember years ago there was a section on the R/T application form which you signed pertaining to the official secrets act.

[IRRenewal]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=184779

[IO540]

The standard trick for in-flight recording of a reasonable sound track with a camcorder is to get a small external mike, and tuck it inside the headset.

I have done this with various camcorders, and the #1 thing is to get a mike that is small enough to fit inside the earcup (obviously) and has a thin enough cable so you don't get noise coming in through the gap created (same issue as with glasses actually).

The setup I currently use, which works very well, is a miniature mike from

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category/140/mics

model SP-LAV-1 (if I recall correctl).

I also bought the SP-LAV-3 which is amazingly sensitive but not needed for this application. This model also has a much lower limit on the maximum supply voltage, though I have not found this on their website today so perhaps they have changed the design.

The mike needs to be purchased specified (wired) for "dual mono".

I then use a pre-amp SP-PREAMP

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-PREAMP

but mine came without all the accessories shown in the above URL. This is set to 0db gain (it has a three-position gain switch as well as the rotary knob). Practically the whole reason for this preamp is to get a manual sound level adjustment; experimentation shows that setting the switch to 0db and the knob to 75% of max is just perfect, with my Sony HC1 high-def cam.

The Sony HC1 cam has a great feature which is manual sound level control. It isn't really accessible during use but it disables the AGC (automatic gain control) feature which all consumer cams have by default and which is a total pain in this application.

I hope the above helps somebody. The result is really excellent - as good as the best professionally produced sound track I have seen on TV when recording on GA flights.

The proper way, which avoids all the wires, would be a connection into the aircraft intercom. I have the PS Engineering PS7000 which is a top-end unit but even that doesn't have a spare output (well not according to my installation manual, or the illiterate ape who works on their American customer service). One could however take a signal off the cockpit speaker cable (attenuating suitably, using 2 resistors) and almost every plane will have one of those, and the connection (to the actual speaker terminals) would be trivial since the speaker itself can usually be easily extracted from its mounting. You just need to fly with the speaker switched ON on the intercom. If you then fix a tiny jack socket somewhere, it's unlikely anybody will find it and query whether it has the right paperwork :)

[IRRenewal]

Way too complicated if you ask me.
On the previous thread I refered to above I wrote:
I often use a little digital voice recorder to record the intercom during airtests. Saves me from having to write down the numbers during the 5 minute climb (although people have wondered about me talking to myself).
Made an adapter lead with a 3.5 mm plug on one end to connect to the voice recorder and a 6.3 mm plug on the other end to plug into a spare headset socket. In the lead I placed a 67 kOhm resistor and a 47 uF capacitor in series to adjust the output level of the intercom to the required input level for the mic input. Should work on other equipment that would normally use an external electret microphone (as most modern equipment does).
If anybody needs maplin part numbers let me know and I'll try to find a catalogue.
Cheers
Gerard

If you don't have a spare intercom output, you can use a set-up similar to above. Just place a 6.3 mm socket in parallel to the 6.3mm plug. Headset goes into socket, job done. With the series resistor the audio output to the recording device will present very little load to the circuit and won't have a noticable effect on the output level on the headset. This will give you exactly the same functionality as the "aircraft patch cord" mentioned in an earlier post.

Test on the ground before flying, and be prepared to unplug the adaptor if anything goes funny in flight.

Remember, whatever the quality of the mike and pre-amp you use, the sound quality is always going to be better if you take it direct from the intercom output rather than via a speaker/mike/pre-amp set-up. And the adaptor I suggest won't cost more than a few quid to make.

Cheers

Gerard

[IO540]

I agree that was complicated, and I posted it for reference purposes as much as anything else, but there will be cases where one cannot mod a headset lead, and cannot get a plug-in into a headset socket because there are 4 people aboard a 4-seater so no spare sockets.

There is a suprising shortage of good mikes that are small enough and work with a camcorder that has the traditional "PLUG IN POWER" mike input.

The big secret of airborne sound recording is a camcorder which has a manual level control option. Most consumer cams don't, and during quiet periods the AGC winds up the gain to result in a really crap soundtrack. Of course all the pro units have manual level.

[escobar]

Hi,

Thanks for all the replies, some interesting options there.

[Whopity]

And OFCOM also gave PPRuNe the following direct interpretation of the law (similar to the above).

Quote:
In short you can use a scanner to listen to anything broadcast for general reception, radio amateurs, CB, weather and navigation broadcasts. Unless you are a police officer or work in the emergency services you are not allowed to listen to their communications.

You can only listen to other services if you have the permission of the sender. The air show is a good example where the control tower frequencies are publicised and that would be considered permission.
Ofcom seem to have only given half the story. If the transmissions are "intended" for your reception then theres is no problem "permission is implicit in the intention" The statement they made is in relation to transmisions for which you were not the intended recipient. You could also argue that any routine ATC message is a "Flight Safety" message and as such is for general reception by those with a vested interest.

[Alogan]

Looks like i'll just be video recording the sim then :} Ah well thanx for that

Even if it is illegal, then as Splatt says it is a completely unenforceable rule and as long as you are happy that there aren't any safety implications or anything like that then I'd say that you're safe to ignore it and record in flight (just don't tell the CAA).

Of course not every rule or law that has ever been written is (or should be) rigidly adhered to.