RAF Flight Operations Assistant

[gconatyuk]

Whilst conducting a bit of research into a career as an ATCO i stumbled across the RAF careers website and the position of FOA. Now, i understand this isn't an ATCO as such but they clearly state on there that within 4 years as an FAO you can begin training to become an ATCO. Does anyone have any information on this or is this another case of recruitment doo daa to try and get people into the job.

[AlanM]

When I joined as an RAF ATSA (FOA nowadays) it was always possible and a fairly natural career progression to become a SNCO controller if you passed the aptitude tests.

I think that in reality traingin to be a controller still happens - though I would have thought that 4 years is a bit optimistic for the masses. Also, as a FOA you may find yourself in station Ops or Sqn Ops as opposed to the tower.

Good luck

[Molesworth Hold]

I think you are on about FOA (ATC) known within military ATC as Fast Trackers. A few years ago it was realised that there was an optimum age to train Controllers. A lot of people had passed the aptitude tests and then waited until their appraisals were good enough to be selected to progress to the Controllers course. Inevitably there were some people who through the vagaries of service culture would never get selected for Controller training or if they did would be a the top end of the age range. The answer that was put forward was to recruit people off the street, who at the end of their training would be Sergeants but this was not acceptable within the structure of the RAF ground trades. The next solution was to recruit people who would be aptitude tested, trained as an Assistant and then employed directly in in an ATC role. After a few years, if they had progressed satisfactorily they would then be Fast Tracked to the Controllers Course jumping a rank in the process. I don't know this system is producing the goods, and whether or not the people staffing the Careers Information Offices actually understand the differences between the FOA and FOA (ATC)

[gconatyuk]

Im working towards becomming a civvy ATCO, however, was carrying out a bit of research into other possible careers should my application be unsuccessful. It will be another two years until i apply to NATS or EUROCONTROL by which point i will be in that position whereby joining the RAF as an FOA will probably be too much of a drop in my salary to consider. All the same, thank you very much for the information as it is always useful to keep my options open.

[scan]

This is not a con to get you to join the RAF. The trade is now re titled ATCA Air Traffic Control Apprentice. Entry requirements are 3 Gcse grade C or above in English Lang. Maths and a Science Full UK driving Lic and under the age of 25. You undertake the ATC aptitude tests at RAF Cranwell and if successful there and at the AFCO you undertake basic trg at RAF Halton then specialist trg at the Central Air Traffic Control School at RAF Shawbury before joining a unit. And you will then spend a min of 3 years as an ATCA before being considered for you Controllers Cse. This time can be shortened depending on your reports for controller suitability. I have a number of "fast trackers", as they are known in the trade, working for me and the average time for controller selection is 3.5 years from enlisting. The RAF looks for approx 40 SNCO controllers per year from within Trade Group 9. Hope this goes some way to answering your? :ok:

[gconatyuk]

Thanks for that scan. Ive sent you a PM.

[A good headin]

gconnatyuk-
Mate, some advice don't waste your time joining the RAF as an FOA (ATC)/ATCA! :=
If you have the aptitude for controlling, then get your tail over to Eurocontrol or NATS. The money is better and prospects are much brighter and you're not going to get dicked around for three years making the tea and doing pointless 'Duty Driver' duties in crap parts of the country or worse in Iraq or the Falklands. :ugh:
You can make use of those three years as a civil controller to good advantage to get yourself firmly established on their career ladder.
PS. I am an ex Mil controller, so feel free to PM me if you do decide to go the Mil route for more advice.

[Angrel]

aye, being ex mil myself i agree! as i said in the pm, the smart money is controller in civvie street.

but hey! the falklands wasnt that bad! 4 months on the piss and i got to see icebergs!

geese too. bloody geese..........i dream now and then i am able to kill there beady eyed flapping squawking wings....AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

*achem* sorry bout that, touch too much to drink!:E

[Number2]

I had a bloody good time when I was in. Lots (and I mean lots) of time off for adventurous training, the money was better than a number of people and there was a reasonable amount of loyalty and comradeship.

I have to admit, I don't miss it now, but my life is a whole lot richer than than many people around me that have only ever experienced NATS and spend their life talking about cars, houses and their next holiday!

[danceswithsheep]

G, for my pennies worth......Go for it.......I had a great time in the RAF and if you enjoy travel, sports and some superb friends then you will too. They will pay for anything if you have the right attitude(Operation Beaver was a 2 week surfing expedition in Devon!!!), let you see places you might never get to again, I was in the Falklands for 4 months and enjoyed nearly all of it, even Christmas(Upland Goose for dinner!).
Even if you then decide not to go ATC, it will have taught you life lessons you may not get elsewhere. My transfer from RAF to NATS was easy and while I have a good life as a civvy controller, I would not change those years for anything.
Hope it all works out.

[gconatyuk]

I made some enquries down at the AFCO today and was asked if i would consider the 'lesser option' as a normal Flight Operations Assistant. How is it that this is classed as the 'lesser option' as both the FOA (ATC) and FOA job descriptions in the brochure are almost identical and the pay is the same

[BDiONU]

I made some enquries down at the AFCO today and was asked if i would consider the 'lesser option' as a normal Flight Operations Assistant. How is it that this is classed as the 'lesser option' as both the FOA (ATC) and FOA job descriptions in the brochure are almost identical and the pay is the same
Because they are the same job EXCEPT the FOA (ATC) can go on to become a controller and the 'normal' FOA can only progress through the FOA branch.

BD

[Angrel]

actually, 'normal' FOA's can go the controller route if they have the apptitude but it takes about twice as long as FOA's (ATC).

[BDiONU]

actually, 'normal' FOA's can go the controller route if they have the apptitude but it takes about twice as long as FOA's (ATC).
Hhhhmmmm, I just had a discussion with a couple of FOA's at work to confirm my understanding. As of last year it is highly unlikely that an FOA could become a controller. None of them will have done the aptitude test (unless they're already annotated Q-ATC) and there should be no reason for the RAF to explore their capabilities when they already have FOA(ATC) ready to do the JATCC.
Looks like the RAF will rename the FOA(ATC) next year to ATCA (Air Traffic Control Assistant?), although FOA's can still work in towers. From Scan's post they appear to have been renamed already, although the guys at the coal face aren't aware of it yet, awaiting a visit from the trade sponsor.
I think they should go full circle and make them AATC's again, like what I was when I joined up ;)
BD

[AmyLou]

I have recently applied for FOA(ATC) and am going to RAF Cranwell for the specialist tests n stuff on tuesday, can anybody tell me what to expect, how to dress etc. :bored:

[frustratedATC]

Just to clarify a few points made in this thread; all AFCOs should know the difference between the two seperate, though connected trades. If you ever wish to be a controller then apply FOA (ATC) otherwise your only subsequent option to become a controller is commissioning, and that is not the easiest of routes. Generally speaking, if you join FOA (ATC) you will spend your time in an ATC tower and not Stn Ops or Flt Planning (although there may the odd exception out there somewhere).

Just a little insight for you (although it can change day to day...), no fresh applications for FAO are being accepted at AFCOs; however, FOA (ATC) is now a priority trade therefore the RAF have significant vacancies.

If I was going to Cranwell for the controller aptitude tests then I would go as smartly dressed as possible - though only an apptitude test it is still part of the selection proceedure.

Hope this helps - back to ATC in a few weeks time...damnn

Any further questions, feel free to send a PM....