VRP's-How to identify them

[modelman]

Quite a few VRP's carry a description of their nature ( cement works, m/way junction etc) but some do not. Anybody know where can I look to find descriptions of VRPs and better still any aerial photos of same.
Thanks
Modelman

[IO540]

The short answer is that a lot of VRPs are all but impossible to find, or close to something which looks just the same (which amounts to the same thing, but is more dangerous).

But don't tell anybody - this is one of the most closely guarded secrets of the PPL training business ;)

I mean, if VRPs were all obvious, nobody would need to use other navigation methods!

[Mike Cross]

www.multimap.com is useful for getting aerial pics, however they don't have an easy way to find things from lat & long. here (http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?client=public&X=442000&Y=264000&gride=441500&gridn=264000&scale=10000&coordsys=gb&db=pc&lang=&mapsize=big) for example is an aerial photo of the Cement Works VRP south west of Draycott Water (it's at Long Itchington).

[Genghis the Engineer]

Google Earth will handle lat/long.

G

[drauk]

Actually multimap do support putting the lat/lon in the URL. That's what we use on http://fly.dsc.net
For example the following is a link straight from the search results page on there:
http://www.multimap.com/map/photo.cgi?lat=51.656&lon=-0.326&scale=25000&icon=x

[windriver]

I came across this recently... maybe there are more...

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/299/DAP_ACD_EmidsBirm.pdf

[SATCO Biggin]

As VRP's are things we are advised to avoid flying over because they attract aircraft like flies around dog sh*t, then not being able to see one should not be a problem :ok:

(unless of course you overfly one because you did not see it := )

[FlyingForFun]

Is there any difference between identifying a VRP and identifying any other feature on the ground?

Before the stop-watch indicates that you should be arriving (at least 4-5 minutes before you are due to arrive, but ideally before you even get in the aeroplane before flight), identify nearby features which will uniquely identify the location. Nearby towns, high ground, roads, railway lines - anything which is shown on the chart. The key is to find things which are unique - having a road to the south of a town is no use if there are three other towns nearby with a road to the south. Having a railway line crossing the road to the south of the town is more likely to be a unique feature.

2-3 minutes before arriving overhead your VRP (so that it is still definitely in front of you), start looking on the ground for those features you have already identified. Find the biggest features first, then work your way to the smallest features. You need 3 unique features to be sure of having found the correct place.

I think what is confusing you is a couple of things. First of all, when you've done navigation exercises, you've deliberately picked as turning points the features which you think will be easy to spot - the large towns, for example - whereas VRPs are often not the easiest features to spot. In that case, find the nearby easy feature, then work your way from there to the VRP. For example, it's a disused airfield (sometimes very easy to spot, but more often incredibly difficult) - so find the nearby town, then look 2-3 miles south-east of the town for something which looks like a disused airfield. If you really can't see it, then as a last resort call "In the vicinity of <VRP>" when you are 2-3 miles south-east of the town - or alternatively, just call overhead the town which is near the VRP instead.

The other thing which I think might be confusing you is that the locals will know exactly where the VRP is, and will be able to pick it out from 50 miles away when the viz is only 10 miles. Sorry, but there's no way around this except to use the airfield in question often enough to become one of the locals.

That's my "official" answer, but as a responsible pilot, if you're lucky enough to be able to source a good photo of a VRP before you set out from home, then by all means do so, because it certainly won't do you any harm. From experience, I would say that having seen a photo of a site is rarely any help in finding the site, but once you've found it a good photo is excellent for confirming it's the correct place.
As VRP's are things we are advised to avoid flying over
And if ATC ask you to report overhead, or route via, a VRP...??? (Sorry - couldn't resist!)

FFF
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[cirrus01]

Go visit the CAA web site, and look up the "On Track " section , lots of info and photos of some of the more popular VRPs.

:ok: :ok: :ok:

[coodem]

Some controllers will make you use VRP's as joining instructions, ie Canal bend, golf course, but at least you expect the area to be conjested, so you have a real good look around for other aircraft

[S-Works]

whats a stopwatch.......

[Fuji Abound]

Bose-X

A multi purpose tool now used to by instructors to confuse students how to work out x-wind drift in the hold and by controllers to pass traffic information. Apparently if you turn the little bezel they can also be used to record the passage of time.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

photos of some of the more popular VRPs

... all clearly marked "not to be used for navigation" :confused: := :ugh: :{

[Gertrude the Wombat]

whats a stopwatch.......

Er, isn't it what you get it you spend long enough with the DME manual and then press the buttons in the right order? Must say I've never found it myself.

[IO540]

It also has a knob on the side which you have to turn 10 times, every so often, and if you forget to do it, you enter a condition variously known as "lost" or (in the authorised language of ex-RAF navigators working at the CAA) "uncertain of position".

There are other ways to enter this condition; for example if you spend too much time looking out of the window then you might forget to notice that the stopwatch has passed the time of the current leg.

Another way to forget to monitor the stopwatch is to be enjoying the flight too much. God forbid! Ze British are not supposed to ENJOY somefing :yuk:

Then, if you look down and below you see two long parallel runways, with a load of 747s waiting at the hold, and with the sky above full of more 747s flying holding perfect 1-minute holding patterns (gosh what a lot of stopwatches there must be flying around up there...), you can expect

a) visit from the CAA, and

b) prominent mention in the aviation magazines

With b), the production of the stopwatch will get you an automatic exemption from unfavourable coverage (it's not necessary for it to be functioning; the possession of a stopwatch implies due diligence and "good airmanship"). However, if a GPS is found among your possessions then you better wear a hood next time you go flying.

With a), they will prosecute just the same.

[172driver]

IO

:ok: :D :ok: :D :ok:

[distaff_beancounter]

OR:-

Get yourself a GPS which lists VRPs in its database
Select the required VRP
Fly to it
err - thats all

If questioned by CAA, examiner, or instructor, hide the GPS with the stop-watch, whiz-wheel & chinagraph pencil, but remember to blow the dust & cobwebs off these first. :ok:

[MyData]

IO - So *THAT'S* what the Breitling Navitimer is for. Or does it have to be a 'proper' stopwatch?

Good post.

[Fuji Abound]

whats a circular slide rule .. .. .. :D

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

I came across this recently... maybe there are more...

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/299/DAP_ACD_EmidsBirm.pdf

A bit disconcerting when a CAA chart spells the big city next to LIC NDB as Linchfield. I will bear that in mind while I'm in Roddige circuit tomorrow morning.