Smile Your On Candid *Cockpit* Camera

[Iain]

"Spies" will be installed in cockpits

Airlines are expected to be told later this month that all new aircraft will be fitted with cockpit video cameras from 2005, in spite of opposition from pilots in Britain and the United States. The International Civil Aviation
Organization (ICAO), which is the international ruling body on commercial aviation matters, hopes the cameras will provide air accident investigators with more evidence than is available from voice recordings.

ICAO is expected to announce its decision to make video cameras in cockpits a legal requirement at its conference in Canada in September.

Pilots are opposed to video cameras in the cockpit because they fear that video footage could be used
against them in legal action following an accident. They also believe that being filmed while they work could be distracting. The British Air Line Pilots Association claims the introduction of cockpit video recordings "offensive" and "an invasion of privacy". British law does provide pilots with some protection, however, as it prohibits voice recordings being released other than in the publics interest. The legislation is expected to be extended to cover video recordings.

Pilots in the US could be more vulnerable, however, as cockpit voice recordings were routinely released to the public until recently. New legislation introduced to prevent this made no mention of video recordings.

Source: Issue three 2001 of FIRST CLASS Newsletter by IAPA (for members only) www.iapa.com (http://www.iapa.com)

[Eff Oh]

I dont like the idea of this.....What possible use can it have?? It does not increase safety etc! I just don't get it. If someone knows why the please tell me, as I am struggling to understand what use there is in this!!
Eff Oh

[The Ghost Who Walks]

Eff Oh,
How many LOFT sims have you done that have been videoed and where the instructor has used the tape to highlight training points in the debrief?

[Yabaduu]

It's very different to use it for training than in the cokpit on a regular basis. It just looks to me that they are trying to blame every little thing literraly on pilot behabiour. They should be pointing the bl**dy camera to the pax. And we should have a ,monitor in the cokpit to wath them

[Horatio]

This was always inevitable, just a question of timing. Pilots might not like it and will try to resist it, however it will happen, like it or not.

At the end of the day, pilots do carry the can for their actions, always have done. Data and voice recorders already exist, this is just going to provide supplementary info over and above what is already there. A distraction to the pilot? I think not. When used in the sim, my experience was that you forgot about it completly and got on with the job in-hand, even if it was subsequently embarrasing in the debrief.

Think positively; maybe, it might just prove one day that the pilots, in a particular situation, did carry out the right actions and that the fault lay with the malfunction of the airplane systems. The way it is at the moment, in the absence of hard evidence that the sytem malfunctioned, the pilot must therefore be to blame. If the pilot screwed up, well, he's probably gonna get blamed anyway, this will just go to help prove the fact. If he did, he has to face the music like in any other walk of life.

Hard, but fair.

[Iain]

I think the main concern is when cockpit voice records where introduced the agencies involved said only investigators will have access to the recording. Not only do airlines use them, but what is worse is whatching CNN with their resident expert, questioning questioning the crews action (from transcripts), when he has now idea about that aircraft or companies SOP's.
I can not imagine anything worse then seeing (the video, or even snapshots) of a friend or family member fighting to save the aircraft with one of these resident experst questioning the goings on!

[ 25 October 2001: Message edited by: Iain ]

[The Guvnor]

I agree that the use of any video - especially after an incident - should be carefully protected. However, I can think of a number of accidents where video footage would almost certainly have been able to unequivocably show what had happened - whereas all that investigators have to go on is (often poor quality) CVR tapes and the FDR readout.

Whilst we're on the subject of video, what happened to the DERA proposal for external cameras? I remember one of the Boscombe Down BAC1-11s was fitted with them - seemed to be rather a decent idea to me!

[Horatio]

Yep, agree. Rather than fight the issue, which they will loose, the various pilot representative bodies, unions if you like, should work with the authorities to ensure that the facility is used properly.

DERA are involved in more pressing and important security implications at moment. If they suceed, good news for all. Osama will have to use a pushbike or camel in future if he wants to get from A to B without being detected!

[Carnage Matey!]

Well call me old fashioned but just what exactly is a low quality video camera pointing at some blurry instruments going to do to improve safety. F all I suspect. This may even be a knee-jerk response to the events of Sept 11th, but I don't think a video is going to tell us any more than we can already resonably deduce, nor will it prevent further occurences. If you want to do something meaningful for safety why not install Quick Access Recorders like BA but crash proof them? I think having a trace of up to 500 variable and 1500 discrete parameters post-acciednt would be a lot more useful to the investigators than a grainy videotape.

[Eff Oh]

Actually...........I have never been videoed in the sim! I agree with the post that says point the camera at the pax! Much more sensible! I also agree with what "The Guv" says (for once!) ;)
Eff Oh

[Horatio]

Eff Oh, get a job on a shiny new jet and you'll get the chance to join the 'stars in their eyes' brigade, Joking apart, they are far from 'grainy images' that Carnage suggests. Maybe good idea of having one pointed backwards to the cabin too, maybe the image can be super-imposed on the ND, just like the Wx radar. Good chance to really decide which cc member you're gonna pick for the night?...Sorry, couldn't resist that!

On a serious note, such videos can only enhance security and provide another 'feel good factor' for the passengers. It might also stop them asking the stupid questions you normally get on a flight deck visit, although I accept flight deck visits are probably a thing of the past. Shame.

[tony draper]

You certainly won't get grainy images from modern kit, and it would not be difficult to set them up so they just look at the instruments,the recording kit and camera's can be set up so they take what amounts to a still picture every second, or any time period you want.
Been involved in a few setups like that, remote viewing of dials gauges ect, in hazardous locations.
Don't know what benifit it would be in this case, I thought all that gen was recorded digitaly anyway, is that not the case?.

[wysiwyg]

Horatio - I fly the same shiny jets as Eff Oh and have been through 3 different sims for this type of Boeing. None of these have had video recording nor have any of the previous sims of numerous types I have had the dubious pleasure of sweating in! I think Yabaduu makes a lot of sense.

regards
wizzy

[L337]

I have been videoed during a check, and all I remember of the experience was the back of my head, and the huge bald patch!

L33T

[lets go nads]

SOOO does that mean we cannot read our favourite newspapers anymore?? :D ;) :D

[Herod]

And how long before it's data-linked back, so the "management" can watch our actions in real time? Never thought I would say it, but retirement in five years, one month and twenty-eight days seems more appealing by the minute.

[Whippersnapper]

I can see the benefits, but as others here have said, it's too open to abuse by management and media alike. It seems just another way to screw pilots about, after all, the authorities don't see the need to have CVRs or Data Recorders on ships, trains or coaches, and I can't see the medical profession ever allowing filming of consultations or operations in case of cock ups.
If BALPA don't fight this tooth and nail they won't get any more money from me!

No, sorry. Some benefits are outweighed by the harm they bring the innocent.

[ 26 October 2001: Message edited by: Whippersnapper ]

[PAXboy]

I think the root of this is EqyptAir 990. The timing is having it 'piggy-back' on Sept 11th.

One could imagine a small CCD unit embedded in the middle of the panel with a view across both pilots faces. The instruments would continue to be monitored electronically. This is because of the difficulty of photographing a VDU.

Firstly there is the synchronisation problem (when you see a rolling bar on a TV or PC monitor that is filmed/videoed) also, the interplay of natural and artificial light across the screen would make it haphazard.

[noportopen]

OK, let them install these expensive cameras… and I will cover the lenses with cheap yellow “post-it” notes when entering the cockpit.