Naked Rambler jailed after plane strip

[Ranger One]

From:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/5111042.stm

'Naked rambler Stephen Gough has been jailed for four months after stripping off on a passenger plane.

The 47-year-old was found guilty of charges of breach of the peace and public indecency on a flight from Southampton to Edinburgh.'

I have to confess I think that sentence is way OTT, given the leniency shown to far too many pax who actually turn nasty/violent - by all accounts he didn't cause any problem or scare anyone.

R1

[Chesty Morgan]

I think any situation which needs the captain to leave the flight deck is endangering the flight. Would you consider that a problem?

This bloke got what he deserved. Bearing in mind he was travelling to Edinburgh to appear in court I'd have thought he would be on his best behaviour.

Would you like an unwashed, stinking **** sitting next to you for an hour?

:ugh:

[PAXboy]

Well, we don't actually know if he was ... unwashed, stinking **** ... But we do know that he was naked and deliberately so.

This man has been defying the Police and courts in Scotland for many months and took this action in, almost certainly, full knowledge of the outcome. He was on his way to a court hearing on a similar charge. He found no difficulties in walking naked in England but the Scots did not like and kept arresting him, he kept on refusing to be dressed in court and has been prosecuted for Contempt.

I agree that the CC had no choice but to ask the Captain for instructions and that, given the unusual situation, that Police action would follow. This man has proved to be harmless at all times during the many arrests but that could not possibly be known to the CC. Not to mention that he is very tall and anyone with behaviour outside of accepted norms must be presumed suspicious.

[Chesty Morgan]

Paxboy,

He was. I spoke to the crew the day after it happened. Smelt like old cheese apparently!

Both the cabin crew were quite intimidated by him and his refusal to obey their, what I consider, lawful commands. Hence the reaon for the Captain, a female, leaving the flight deck.

[fernytickles]

"I think any situation which needs the captain to leave the flight deck is endangering the flight"

How about the situation when the captain needs to leave the flight deck to answer the call of nature? Endangering the flight? I think not...

Totally OTT on the sentence.

[Avman]

Hence the reaon for the Captain, a female, leaving the flight deck.

With all the automation these days, I guess it was all the "stick" time she was going to get that day anyway :} .

[Nov71]

.... Not to mention that he is very tall and anyone with behaviour outside of accepted norms must be presumed suspicious.

That is a good 20% of the population convicted then!

eg Many people do not approve of mothers breast-feeding in public but some mothers insist it is their right.

I would be embarrased sitting next to a naked man or woman on a plane, bus or train. I might even have to refuse a hot drink for fear I spill it!

[Chesty Morgan]

Leaving the flight deck to answer the call of nature on a one hour flight is completely unnecessary. This is why we are encouraged to go before we go.

A toilet break, IF it's required, is not the same as having to leave the flight deck to deal with a disruptive passenger. After all, do you REALLY know what's happening, or what will happen, in the cabin, or indeed the flight deck when you're not there?

The reason we have two pilots? Monitoring. Two sets of eyes, two sets of ears and two brains. If you take away half of your monitoring capability then you double the chances of something being missed.

OTT? I think not.

[Ranger One]

Paxboy,
He was. I spoke to the crew the day after it happened. Smelt like old cheese apparently!
Both the cabin crew were quite intimidated by him and his refusal to obey their, what I consider, lawful commands. Hence the reaon for the Captain, a female, leaving the flight deck.

That's the bit that puzzled me - refusing to obey lawful commands is the one thing he *wasn't* charged with, and possibly should have been.

WRT what some other posters have said, I hadn't heard that the Capt. left the flight deck at any time - just that they had asked the police to meet the flight. Chesty seems to have inside information on this - but it seems to me (and I say this VERY gently, I wasn't there) that there's some room to question the judgement of a Captain who leaves the flight deck to deal with a pax who isn't being violent, disruptive, abusive, or dangerous. You're paid to fly the damn thing.

If he was odiferous, shame on him - I still think four months very excessive for a situation where there was no abuse, assault, or endangerment of the flight.

R1

[Chesty Morgan]

question the judgement of a Captain who leaves the flight deck to deal with a pax who isn't being violent, disruptive, abusive, or dangerous. You're paid to fly the damn thing

Quite right Ranger. The trouble was initialy he refused to sit down and therefore distracted the cabin crew from their duties. I would consider this being disruptive. The Captain spoke to him in the rear galley. About as far away from the flight deck as it is possible to get.

If he had become violent we are lawfully allowed to recruit able bodied people to help restrain him. And at that point I would be diverting to the nearest airfield. But I don't think that was ever going to be an issue.

As far as not being prosecuted for "Disobeying lawful commands". Quite often you will find the attending police aren't familiar with the ANO and it is up to us to explain the pertinent parts of it. It seems this didn't happen when he was arrested.

[Ranger One]

Quite right Ranger. The trouble was initialy he refused to sit down and therefore distracted the cabin crew from their duties. I would consider this being disruptive.
OK, so would I - I'll wind my horns in just a little, I wasn't aware he was refusing to take his seat. That's somewhat more naughty. I would still hope the CC would be able to deal with that without involving flight deck crew, but it's their call in the individual situation. To be less than serious for a moment, possibly, just possibly, it went:

Cabin: 'Sorry Captain but we have a male pax who has stripped naked and we're having trouble getting him to take his seat'

FD: 'This I must see!' :rolleyes: :yuk:

If he had become violent we are lawfully allowed to recruit able bodied people to help restrain him. And at that point I would be diverting to the nearest airfield.
No arguments there. Four months in that scenario would be on the soft side of acceptable.
As far as not being prosecuted for "Disobeying lawful commands". Quite often you will find the attending police aren't familiar with the ANO and it is up to us to explain the pertinent parts of it. It seems this didn't happen when he was arrested.
I'd hope the police at a major airport such as Edinburgh would have at least a working knowledge of aviation law - they've probably seen quite a few disruptive pax before. And the procurators fiscal, who bring charges in Scotland on the basis of the facts reported to them by the police, should certainly know the law - that's what they're paid for.
R1

[fernytickles]

Ok, Chesty, I don't necessarily agree with you over the points I made, but aside from that, I still think that the sentence they gave him, in comparison to the sentencing handed down to other people who have disrupted flights is totally OTT. (edited to add) No question, his decision to disrupt the flight was a significant error of judgement, but 4 months worth? I don't think so.

Lucky captain :bored: How did she keep a straight face, trying to reason with a tall, naked guy? I hope she was also tall :p If the cabin crew really were intimidated by one naked guy, how on earth would they feel with serious, drunk, aggressive, abusive, violent trouble makers?

Having followed some of this guy's 'actions' on the Beeb website, when I think of all the things wrong in this world - starvation, torture, corruption, destruction, etc, etc, his desire to be allowed to wander around naked seems to pale in comparison, and some people do seem to be getting awfully hot under the collar over such relatively innocuous behaviour.

So, anyone who would want to strip naked in the midge-capital of the world is definitely barking, but I would have thought that there were more important problems that need to be addressed in life.

[fernytickles]

Cabin: 'Sorry Captain but we have a male pax who has stripped naked and we're having trouble getting him to take his seat'
FD: 'This I must see!'
:ok: oh for a camera phone......

[Chesty Morgan]

Ranger.

I agree involving the flight deck was not the best solution, but you're right it was the CC's call and at the end of the day the situation was dealt with.

I too would hope that the police based at a particular airport would have a working knowledge of the ANO. But sometimes police from local forces are called in to deal with situations and I'm assuming they've never heard of the ANO. It is up to us to make sure the police are properly briefed when they turn up regardless.

Ferny.

She was a short diminutive captain. Just the right height to...well never mind!

I can't comment on other peoples sentences for disrupting flights. But I do think that if they're not harsh enough people will never learn. I suppose they were just trying to make an example of this chap, bearing in mind he was travelling to another court appearance for similar behaviour I assume that this sentence reflected BOTH punishments combined.

But you're right there are more important things to worry about:ok:

[Ranger One]

For the insatiably curious, he's his web site:

http://nakedwalk.org/

R1

[PAXboy]

Sorry to hear that he was part of the great unwashed, most unpleasant. Whilst the sentence appears to be OTT for this, I strongly suspect that the 'beak' was taking into consideration that this fellow has been defying the Scottish Police and Courts for more than a year.

If he really wanted to get sympathy for his 'cause' then he would dress when in court and avoid a sentence, so that he could be naked outdoors once again. That he continually does things that are bad for him (and ignoring the advice of his solicitor) then I conclude that he is wilfully doing this for reasons unknown - or he is not in full charge of his faculties. Certainly not sufficient to mark him as dangerous to others but not in the mainstream!

On this occasions (a FlyBe sector, I believe) he went through the terminal in the usual way and only udressed once airborne, he knew the effect that it would have. All crew would be concerned at a tall and strong man (ex-Army Marine) who refuses to obey instructions, whether he was naked or not.

My sig line appears to be more than usually appropriate ... :p
__________________
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different."
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[smith]

If he was odiferous, shame on him - I still think four months very excessive for a situation where there was no abuse, assault, or endangerment of the flight.


Do you have kids R1? Would you like them to be exposed to by a grown adult? This guy is a pervert and should be put on the sex offenders register. Don't know how he got away with it in England but in Scotland the authorities came down on him like a ton of bricks.

Read an article last week about a guy who moonied on a night out and was placed on the sex offenders register. If thats the case they should lock up and throw away the key for this naked rambler. The guy is a loony and the documentary about him showed he was a pervert when he was sh@*?ing all and sundry when he was engaged.

Chesty Morgan

If he had become violent we are lawfully allowed to recruit able bodied people to help restrain him.

Just finished my ATPL law exam an the commander of an aircraft "can request the assistance of passengers" in controlling unruly passengers until they can "be delivered to the authorities". You make it out that you can demand the assistance of passengers. I know you didn't mean it but thats the way it sounds he he :D

[Leezyjet]

Would you like them to be exposed to by a grown adult? This guy is a pervert and should be put on the sex offenders register.

he was a pervert when he was sh@*?ing all and sundry when he was engaged

Why is he a pervert just because he doesn't conform to the "norm" ?.

He isn't doing anything to little kids, he is just expressing himself to be as nature intended. I don't see why people have a problem with the human body in its most natural form - must be them who actually have the "problem".

One again though, this shows how the justice system is failing in BLiar's Britain - racist thugs are let off whilst we jail an old granny and a naked guy :\

:rolleyes:

[Ranger One]

Do you have kids R1? Would you like them to be exposed to by a grown adult? This guy is a pervert and should be put on the sex offenders register.

Yes. And since myself and Mrs. Ranger are 'casual nudists' at home, you've picked precisely the wrong person to suggest that there's anything offensive about nudity per. se.

And our kids are growing up just great thank you.

The rambler guy sounds a bit of a prat to be honest, but I have more sympathy with his viewpoint than yours.

R1

[bushbolox]

If this happened during flight one thing is being missed during all the posturing.
The Flight crew do not leave the flight deck during a disturbance. Thats as much as I will say on a Forum. The rest is available on the security course sylabus, which those of you who are genuine pilots in an airline should have done. If the situation escalates there are options open to the flight crew, but leaving the flight deck isnt one of them.Including if the cabin crew are threatenened with weapons. In this case the most this weapon would have done, (cheessy unwashed or not) would be possibly put a smile on someones face.

PS ranger 1, whats a casual nudist.Does it refer to the less formal socks or the way you lounge around, casually

[SXB]

This guy is quite clearly a nutter and in need of medical help. Prison is most definately not the place for him.

[smith]

This guy is onthe news being arrested in Scotland all the time, R1, so you are telling me if your child, or lets say any child between 8 and 14 years was onboard this aircraft and sat next to a child, you'd find this acceptable?

Grow up, this guy is just a nuisance and a pratt. There are laws in this land put in place to protect common decency and if he or anyone don't abide by these laws they deserve everything they get!!!!

[SXB]

Smith, I don't think anyone is saying what he did was acceptable but some perspective is needed, all he did was was remove his clothes. Obviously an aircraft is not the ideal place to do such a thing.

The Brits are extremely fickle about nakedness, I live on the continent and spend a lot of time in Germany so it doesn't offend me :) Germans tend to remove their clothes in public places without much persuasion, though I admit that a naked guy on an Airbus at FRA at 8.00am would probably be frowned upon. Seriously though, there is absolutely no reason to link nakedness with sexual perversion, the two are poles apart and to talk about "throwing the key away" is simply ridiculous.

This particular guy , as previous incidents show, clearly suffers from some sort of mental disorder and throwing him in a Scottish jail will not help him.

[PAXboy]

I have observed this man on a lengthy television documentary about him and his walk and read a fair amount about him. I do think that he needs help but it is the kind of help that this country no longer offers. We have the full-on 'section' for those with severe mental problems and that is it. All others that might need counselling or some observation must wait in line. Also this man is, clearly, very high functioning and does know what he is doing and so he is not 'ill' in any conventional sense.

There is no evidence (across several years) that he is any menance to anyone - except himself. He is regularly jailed for contempt not for being naked. I certainly think that jail is no solution but I suspect that, subconsiously, he thinks it is. For it will place in him a structured and orderly society where he can rebel.

Talk of throwing away keys is knee-jerk and he is certainly not a pervert. He is a complicated case but with no obvious solution because, whilst he is not functioning well in society, he does function better than many! I expect that he will continue in this way for some years to come.

[smith]

I used the cliche "throw away the keys" in comparison to the guy who moonied on a night out on the P155 and was placed on the sex offenders register. AFAIK know the naked rambler has not been placed on this register. I was saying that if someone moonies and gets placed on a sex offenders register then in comparison someone who walks around naked with no regard to who he offends should have a far stiffer sentence. I am not advocating that he gets a life sentence, I was just using the old cliche as a comparison.

With regards to the documentary his partner was uneasy about going into a pub which was full of families and children however he was adamant that it was his right to enter the pub and beer garden naked.

You might find it acceptable in England but in Scotland if I was out with my family enjoying a bar lunch and a naked man walked into the beer garden flaunting himself in front of my family I'd do something. Maybe we are puritans up here in Scotland but at least our finest relentlessly pursue this guy in order to uphold the laws of the land.

[SXB]

Smith, what's with the anti-English slant in your posts ? I'm sure the people of England would find naked people in a bar equally objectionable. Probably best to keep any anti-English beliefs you may have to yourself (I don't live in either country, nor would I want to)

[smith]

Its not anti English, this guy was on TV virtually everyday in Scotland with footage of him being arrested (in fact I think a permanent film crew followed him), according to the documentary he seemed to get free range to roam by the authorities down south.

The problem is he would walk into towns naked, if he had stuck to rural areas and fields, although still illegal would maybe have reduced the number of times he was arrested. Suppose we're getting off topic here but this guy is still a crank, I am a bit shocked to find a lot of people on this thread are willing to find his behaviour tolerable. I am no prude but as I repeat we all have to obey to the laws of the land.

[fernytickles]

Interesting that this topic has gone on for so long.
Advocating putting the guy on the same sort of register that covers people who such commit disgusting crimes as rape and paedophilia against people old and young, just because he wants to take his clothes off in public is rather extreme. It also makes a farce of the register - lets just put any Tom, Dick or Harry on there just cos we don't like what they're doing. Right?
If it is offensive to you, look the other way. There are plenty of offensive sights to be seen around us - the massive beer belly, the low slung waisted trousers with the spare tire hanging out over the top, the string vest with the hairy (smelly) armpits, the "front bottom", to name but a few. To me, no less or more disgusting than seeing a naked torso in public. Not really something I relish, but not worthy of being categorised as a sex crime and putting on the sex offenders register. Would you feel the same way if it was a woman who was doing this? Would she be a candidate for the sex offenders register?
Like I said before, I think there are far more serious and worrying problems in this world (yes, and Scotland in too) that need to be addressed and dealt with.

[smith]

I agree that this post has gone on too long and you know my thoughts on it, or do you? Do you actually read all of the posts? If you are going to pass judgement on my posts please take the time to read them properly first as you've virtually copied what I have said.

Please read again. Why should a guy on a drunken night out be placed on the sex offenders register when a guy who continually exposes himself in public and flaunts the law gets away scot free? I certainly wouldn't like him to be one of my neighbours. You all know my feelings about this guy and herewith endeth the sermon, however it still amazes me that the majority of the posts on here seem to think this man's behaviour should be tolerated.


END END END END END:ugh:

[PAXboy]

smithYou might find it acceptable in England but ...No, I do not think it acceptable to walk naked into a pub and I have not said so. I have said in this forum (and a public naturist forum in which I have participated for even longer than in PPRuNe) that the man is his own worst enemy and that the state will continue to lock him up because his particular psychopathy does not fit any of the standard options.

He is, broadly speaking, harmless but he is also, broadly speaking, a nuisance.

[James 1077]

I honestly can't see an issue here.

Would I mind if my kids saw or sat next to a naked person? No, I wouldn't. Why should it be a problem? As long as that person didn't sexually assualt them and, if they did that, I would be equally as upset if they were clothed!

Why is someone who walks around naked some sort of sexual freak? It could simply be that he is deeply religious and wants God's forgiveness for Adam and Eve's original sin; which he thinks he'll get by walking around naked.


At the end of the day there are plenty of things to worry about and I don't think this is one of them. 100 years ago most of the people walking around today would probably have been arrested for wearing too little and displaying too much flesh ...

[Leezyjet]

I just think this guy is out to prove a point. He set off to walk naked from Lands End to John O'Grotes, and as far as he is concerned he will complete the walk, but each time he gets let out of prison, he gets arrested again and thrown back in for being naked.

He managed to walk most of the way without any major problems but for some reason the Scottish Poilce and courts took a major dislike to him and they too are out to prove a point.

There is nothing wrong with the guy aside from the fact he likes to walk around naked.

It is just a battle of wits between David and Goliath from what I can see.

:)

[Final 3 Greens]

This guy is clearly engaging in behaviour which is deviant from the social norm and also illegal.

I am surprised that many on the forum seem to think that this is acceptable.

I would equate this behaviour to someone playing loud music in the middle of the night - no it isn't going to physically harm others, but it is offensive and shows a lack of respect for society.

Smith, I agree with your points and the Scottish Police have apparently reacted to this anti social behaviour in a positive way, as they should.

If the guy refuses to comply with the law, he will end up going to prison - that's his choice.

[surely not]

no probs him being naked, but think of the problem of skid marks and botty sweat going onto the seat. I don't fancy sitting in the seat after him!!!:yuk: :yuk:

[PAXboy]

Exactly! := Which is why the first rule obeyed by true naturists is, to carry your own towel and place it on a chair before sitting down. :) But Steve Gough has stated that he is not a naturist.
__________________
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different."
Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.