HUMBERSIDE - 2

[pug]

Well the same was said about DUB before that was announced so im am now slightly more optimistic. Yes i agree they could have done far better, and they should have pulled their socks up as soon as the low cost airlines came onto the scene instead of seemingly passing them off as unsustainable.

Yes people vote with their feet but when offered the choice i dont suppose people of lincoln etc would shrug HUY off. There are seperate markets for the two airports and i hope its not too late for HUY to get back into the game and start off where it should have done ten years ago.

[NorthOfRiver]

niknak
I have absolutely no doubt that in time DSA will become the main airport of Yorkshire and North Midlands. I am not dissing LBA, its just that I believe DSA is far better placed, both logistically and realistically, for expansion. I do, however, feel you are being disrespectful to HUY. HUY is not a mickey mouse operation and it will continue to grow. Not in respective proportion to DSA, but nevertheless it will grow. Rather than try to discredit HUY, please try and embrace the fact that the region between Hull and Sheffield have two airports, both of whom are increasing operations and giving its people a choice of destinations and AIRPORTS of origin. This surely should be applauded, not criticised.
I can leave my home just outside Hull and can be at DSA in 45 minutes and HUY in 20 minutes. Is this just great or what? I have a colleague in Scunny who can be at either airport in 25 minutes!!
I think it is absolutely fantastic and long may it last.

[aeulad]

Tue a.m PMI now on sale with XL!

The programme is filling up nicely.

Also, FR have announced they are very pleased with the HUY-DUB route so far, with approx 20,000 seats having been sold so far.

What is comforting is that FR have said that LPL-INV and LPL-ABZ sales are above expectations at 3200 and 2550 seats so far, indicating that 20,000 for HUY-DUB is an excellent figure!

Seems the critics have been proven wrong, there IS room for both DSA and HUY to co-exist, and HUY appears to be going from strength to strength!

Regards

Mike

[aeulad]

They just keep on coming!

SSH now loaded up into the XL timetable.

Dep HUY every Sunday at 11.00.

Regards

Mike

[Teevee]

:confused:
nik nak wrote:

"whereas I fear that HUY will continue to bumble along and gradually lose the majority of the revenue earning trade."

I don't think so, because all of a sudden it is not 'bumbling along' it is starting to boom. And now that it is providing destinations then people will fly to them. I don't believe either that they will be passengers who are necessarily other airport customers. Half (or more) of the hassle and a considerable amount of the expense of flying is involved in getting to the airport. It is a big put-off, but suddenly if your local airport just around the corner starts flying to all sorts of destinations you'd always wanted to go but couldn't be bothered with the airport hassle, then you think twice. How often do we hear or read that demand for air travel outstrips capacity? Well this is the living proof

In the cold light of day what ticks me off about the whole HUY thing is that if there are this many people (and probably more) wanting to fly from there now, then most likely there always was. The economic benefits to the Humberside region that must have gone begging for years don't bear thinking about. Somebody should be strung up:yuk: The apparent years of neglect which I can't believe wasn't in some way part of a management policy is the main reason DSA has outstripped HUY so quickly.

By the way, nice to see we can work together. I bet the pax on last nights Malaga-HUY flight weren't complaining about DSA when it had to divert here, probably because of fog. It must have been so much better and easier getting home than having to get back from MAN.

Tim

[aeulad]

The full XL programme has now been released;

MON
Corfu

TUE
Palma
Heraklion

WED
Paphos
Rhodes

THU
Arrecife
Malaga

FRI
Tenerife
Tenerife

SAT
Palma
Alicante
Las Palmas

SUN
Sharm el Sheikh

Regards

Mike

[holidaymax]

Can anyone confirm a rumour that has been passed to me that some of Ryanairs flights from HUY have been culled?

[pug]

Just the tuesday flights at the moment, that is the badly performing one of the lot but should bring the loadings back up to a better figure as friday to monday the flights are going out with very good loads but the weekday flights are quite low, with the lowest being 49 a few weeks ago on a tuesday.

[airhumberside]

Can anyone confirm a rumour that has been passed to me that some of Ryanairs flights from HUY have been culled?
As things stand all flights have been culled from the winter timetable :{

[WOWBOY]

Anymore further information on who the Humberside and Air Southwest meeting went on back in May?

[aeulad]

Air Southwest has no interest in operating from HUY unfortunately.

Regards

Mike

[pug]

It would appear that FR have culled all flights from HUY after the summer season, quite disapointing news as i do not think it will be replaced and i feel it may have ruined any chance HUY might have had for low cost expansion.:ugh:

[niknak]

Pug,
if true that's a real kick in the nads for HUY and will truely put the kibosh on low cost asperations of the management.

I only hope they put everything into concentrating upon the IT world, its the only thing left in the battle with DSA.

[airhumberside]

Do the management have any low cost aspirations though? The fopcus really is on charters at the moment

[Jet2LBA]

Many feared a daily 189-seat 738 would be too much aircraft for a DUB service, unfortunately this looks like the case.

It seems almost baffling that HUY continues to prosper with charter flights and yet falls flat with scheduled services. There is an obvious demand for flights to the sunspots, but does nobody in the region ever want to travel to other places in sufficient numbers too? The DSA effect can't be blamed too much either, the situation existed long before it opened and even now DSA only offers a handful of non 'sun' destinations.

Perhaps the focus, as already seems, ought to be on continuing to be relatively strong in the charter market and cement it's postion there. Over time, and if remaining successful in this market, then maybe a LCC will take another look at HUY principally for Spanish destinations (which, I imagine is where any money is to be made) and build it from there.

[pug]

To be perfectly honest i dont think HUY want to be in direct competition with DSA, that would be far too risky. I heard from someone 'inside' that they have said they are to keep playing to their strengths, strengths being IT/charter.

Though i dont believe they actively discourage lo-co ops i dont think attracting one is on the top of the agenda, its all down to money at the end of the day, HUY makes more money for MAG than BOH does, BOH's expansion being predominantly from low cost airlines.

The sun routes would work, i have no doubt, but a lo-co would surely want more than just the potential of operating to the usual ALC, AGP and PMI. A similar operation to that of Jet2's at BLK would be good and it is thought they are still looking at HUY for a base in the future, though the thing thats stopping them is not the catchment size more the demographics of the region.

All that said though, FR have proved that there is at least demand for low cost flights from HUY and maybe some potential lo-co will be watching closely before making that investment.

At least the core routes are stil there and growing KLM going 4xdaily, CFU and SSH with a full based a/c from XL next summer. You never know we may have someone else in by then.

[Coasthugger]

HUY makes more money for MAG than BOH does, BOH's expansion being predominantly from low cost airlines.

Sure about that?

[Charlie Roy]

Ryanair have a aircraft in their Dublin base that is still unscheduled for winter on Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and Sundays between 9pm and 11:30pm.

Fingers crossed the may use this aircraft to operate Humberside ;)

[airhumberside]

4 times a week wouldn't be a bad frequency and those flights times would be OK for the weekend break market as people could go straight to HUY after work on a Friday

Hopefully that aircraft will be coming to HUY

[pug]

Originally Posted by pug
HUY makes more money for MAG than BOH does, BOH's expansion being predominantly from low cost airlines.

Sure about that?

I have it on reliable sources working within the group, i should imagine considerable investment has been put into BOH due to the rapid growth?

I like the sound of those flight times and the frequency, hopefuly theyl take it up.

[Coasthugger]

I'd be surprised because I seem to remember being told that the business park attached to BOH is very profitable.

As an airport I wouldn't be surprised if HUY is more profitable than BOH. BOH does seem to have more growth potential however.

[pug]

I think BOH is in a much better location with regards to the business park, it is not too far from the city, HUY is central but still some distance away from its main urban areas, BOH has far more potential with regards low cost travel with a better catchment than that of HUY.

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

Ryan Air have already axed the Tuesday flight and will not be operating from HUY in the winter, Aer Arran will be operating the Dublin flight using an ATR 42. This is amore realistic size of aircraft for HUY.

[Jet2LBA]

Aer Arann and an ATR-42 would certainly offer more manageable and sustainable capacity than what FR offered. True, the bargain fares won't be there, but RE's fares are still usually quite reasonable and if it means HUY retains it's DUB service then I'm all in favour.

I'd just like to see something official on the RE website before I can truly believe it though....

[pug]

The service wouldnt be viable without a low fares operation, the ATR-42 would be too big for the full fares market.

If it has been axed, which i am lead to believe this as maybe not true, then FLYBe would be the only viable operator of a DUB route from HUY. As we all know though, this is highly unlikely.

We'll have to wait and see what the next couple of weeks have in store. If nothing more is heard from FR then i think we can expect HUY to be dropped. Im sure FR wouldnt want this to happen though, they will do what they can to make it work and the rumoured 4xweekly may just do the trick.

[airhumberside]

Aer Arann would be ideal. While not a LoCo, their fares aren't that expensive, and nothing like Eastern's. Plus if they start with a ATR-42 they can expand to a ATR-72 if demand requires it in the future

[pug]

But, looking at it from a paying customers point of view, who has no interest in aviation like we do, RE's fares would be considerably more than the £1 quoted on big adverts in the paper and on websites, people would just use FR at DSA as its much cheaper and a well known brand.

As a paying customer myself who has already used the DUB service, i use it because its conveniant and cheap, if they pull HUY i will use DSA because that would still be cheaper than flying with RE.

I just hope it doesnt get pulled from HUY, i much prefer flying from there than anywhere else.

[EGCN]

I have absolutely no doubt that in time DSA will become the main airport of Yorkshire and North Midlands. I am not dissing LBA, its just that I believe DSA is far better placed, both logistically and realistically, for expansion. I do, however, feel you are being disrespectful to HUY. HUY is not a mickey mouse operation and it will continue to grow. Not in respective proportion to DSA, but nevertheless it will grow
Dsa will probably become the main yorkshire airport but HUY will try and compete the best they can.HUY have just announced that they could be set to see passenger numbers more than quadruple. The airport has released a draft masterplan for the next 25 years which would see passengers rise from 0.6m to 2.5m a year.

[7006 fan]

HUY to go from 0.6m to 2.5m in the masterplan. Time period of 25 years :ugh:

That is a growth of what 90,000pax per year in a straight-line, that is 10 extra summer flights assuming 200 pax in and out, in year one and just keep them for 25 years, is that a mammouth task?! :rolleyes:

[Coasthugger]

Or, more realistically, it's a 6% compound growth annually, meaning you only need to add 36000 pax in year 1. Looks fairly reasonable when the CAA projections are 5% a year across the industry as a whole.

[pug]

Well still nothing from FR regarding winter DUB flights, looks as though this is another short lived venture for HUY :{

Another nail in the coffin perhaps? Going on previously dropped routes i cant see DUB being replaced either, the demand is there as has been proved. Will anyone be willing to take over?

[aeulad]

The route is definitely being dropped. 189 every day of the week was overkill, but with over 5000 pax a month using the service, demand is there. I doubt there will be a replacement service in place in time for the winter, but bosses are hopeful for next summer.

It is not the final nail in the coffin, it just shows that the right aircraft from the right operator is needed for the HUY market. Flybe would be the ideal choice, but their recent expansion at DSA would indicate this unlikely. Jet2 appears to be the only hope, and with a considerable capacity cut from 189 to 149 seats, the route might be more suited to this size of aircraft, bringing the load factor up to around 70%.

If nothing is achieved on the low cost front, it will prove negative on 2007s pax figures, as FR will have brought in an extra 25-30,000 pax for HUY in 2006.

Regards

Mike

[NorthOfRiver]

aeulad

It just doesn't work that way though does it? No one owes HUY a favour. Jet2 wouldn't be looking to employ an aircraft on the strength of a possible 70% load factor. If they were to utilise an aircraft they would be looking for somewhere who could guarantee 85%+ load factors together with reasonable returns with the size of aircraft they use.
The only people to blame for the FR service is the public of Humberside. Lots of people go around bleating about the lack of growth etc, but most of these haven't even seen their way through the terminal at HUY more than a couple of times. I wanted to make the DUB service work, so I put my money where my mouth is and used it 6 times in 3 months. It was so disheartening to see 30 or so people in the departure lounge, and trying to kid yourself that there's going to be a sudden rush. People who want an airport in Humberside, NEED TO SUPPORT the airport. It's as simple as that.

[gary4444]

The demand shown from the Ryanair experiment is that there were 5000 people a month who were willing to pay peanuts for their flights. Will Jet2 consider dropping their fares to a Ryanair early booking level with 50 less capacity? I'm not sure Ryanair will have made good on their investment.

IF a regional player was to come on board will a smaller aircraft would these same people who paid £40-50 pay double that to travel?

[EarthOrbitor]

Well said NorthOfRiver & gary4444, I quite agree.

It goes to show how the market is HUY is finite with little or no inbound potential. This is sad for the airport - but makes sense. The airport is heavily dependant on outbound travel - people wishing to leave the area for whatever reason. That alone cannot justify a low-cost network. The airport did its utmost to promote the service -but that holds little power when the demand just isn't there.

People also forget that fares offered by FR on this route were at rock bottom and only managed to attract 5,000 pax per month. The average fare if Jet2 or Aer Arann came on the route will be much higher - thus restricting demand. Unless an aircraft has the same seat cost as the B737-800, the demand will not be the same with a simple switch of aircraft type.

[pug]

IF jet2 do come in, i would have thaught itd be just to sun routes only. I was going to say something simillar to BLK operation but after reading their FR figures are over 9000 (more than DSA and MME) maybe even that type of services would be overkill with the charter flights too.

Said again, FLYBe could make some regional routes work from HUY, as said i dont think they will as theyre at DSA soon.

The only real form of scheduled expansion i can now see in the future could come form Eastern airways, but even they dont seem to want to support their home airport.

It does tell you something doesnt it. :ugh:

[7006 fan]

If Ryanair cannot make it work with 189 seats, could someone make it work with say an 80/100 seat plane, without MR O'Leary trying to bankrupt them. What seems to be forgotten is HUY is a small catchment airport and needs to concentrate on specific routes, 'out of the ordinary' flights, specialisation is the name of the game, something different to the 'bucket and spade' general tourism etc.Cheers
7006

[pug]

I dont suppose MOL would be so bothered about HUY to be honest, not if theyve had to pull out due to crap loads.

In theory an 80-100 seat daily rotation would work, looking at the FR stats, but as has been mentioned that figure is at FR's rock bottom fares, cheaper than most other potential operators.

Regarding the less common routes, i wouldnt be surprised if thats what HUY would be after if they are trying to attract Jet2, so not to compete with their charter operations. It says on their masterplan that they believe potential routes from HUY for a lo-co would be, among others, Frankfurt and Paris but i suspect they may try for places like Barcelona and Nice so to compliment the existing route 'network'.

Im starting to think that none of this will ever happen though, maybe at best we will see something from EZE like LCY or BRU at a push in the next few years.

[airhumberside]

Can anyone tell me what going on Excel's plans for HUY next summer?

XLA had intended to base an aircraft at HUY all week and put the full schedule on sale a few months ago. Now only Paphos and Heraklion are bookable

XLA have done very well at HUY this summer and if the plan to have a based aircraft next summer has been scrapped it seems a very shock move, especially as flights had already been put on sale for this summer

[pug]

Another nail in the coffin, charter flights do exceptionaly well at HUY, it seems like its one step forward two steps back all the time:{

[airhumberside]

This is as big a blow as loosing FR. Charters are integral to HUY

[pug]

What are the chances of investment in an upgrade to CATIII? Well looks like XL have gone now so looks like minds are made up across the board. Did notice a couple of vans and some workmen at the end of the runway the other day, perhaps they want to get it done?

[aeulad]

XL res staff have recieved an email confirming the closure of the HUY base in S07.

BIG BIG blow:(

Regards

Mike

[DTVAirport]

I'd just like to say that I understand what you're going through with regards to Ryanair and Excel leaving you.

As a Durham Tees Valley fan, I'm still hurtin from last weeks bmibaby announcement. :eek: :mad: :ugh:

[pug]

I hear RE are a definate for next year so fingers crossed.

Very dissapointing news for XL, what could this say about the airlines financial situation though? Its not just HUY they are pulling but CWL and NEMA too, to concentrate on major airports.

What are the chances of any other airline coming in? And what other airlines could there be?

[isa kite]

Hard to see where new business will come from, especially since the marketing department appears to have been dumped in the last Manchester reorganisation. Is there anyone left at the airport whose job it is to attract new business?

[phil_2405]

isa kite

I believe the answer is yes but they aren't based at HUY. Not 100% sure though.

[Thrush]

It used to be Cat II at HUY in the Air UK F50 days, but rumour has it this was lost due to the fire station being built too close to the runway, within the protected area. (?) Sad.

[pug]

Arent the route development people or what ever they call themselves at NEMA now with the officials from all the MAG airports? If they it could be in an attempt to attract airlines to all of its airports and do deals etc.

NEMA and CWL have had their XL flights taken on by Air Malta, i wonder if HUY will get that?

[airhumberside]

It used to be Cat II at HUY in the Air UK F50 days, but rumour has it this was lost due to the fire station being built too close to the runway, within the protected area. (?) Sad.
The fire station was were the helicopter terminal is but got moved further from the runway to its current location :confused:

[niknak]

The ILS at HUY used to meet the requirements of Cat 1 but was unclassified due to the hump in the runway.
When the runway was extended it was reclassified as bog standard Cat 1.
To upgrade to Cat 2 or 3 would cost a fortune (new localizer and glidepath equipment - the present gear doesn't meet the required standard, new lighting etc) and HUY doesn't have a fortune to spend - nor will it for the forseeable future.
As far as marketing is concerned, I am told that the major negotiating and decision making is being made from Manchester, not at HUY, (although there is a token marketing presence in situ there).
The Ryanair venture didn't contiunue, alledgedly, because, (like every other low cost operation which has been proposed from HUY), there was no money to be made by the operator beyond the initial "no charge by the airport" period.
This only goes to prove that low - cost will never work at HUY, scheduled movements will be very very limited and they should stick to catering for the people who want to get away for two weeks every year, i.e. bums to the sun.
If they carry on with the present strategy, they'll be totally decimated by Robin Hood within a couple of years.

[aeulad]

Southampton to Humberside showing on the drop down booking engine on the Flybe. website!:D

Regards

Mike

[mmeteesside]

I'm presuming this is for the fans flights on 2nd December - SOU-HUY for the Southampton v Hull football match. They also have one for the Sunderland match to NCL on 11th Nov

mmeteesside

[wawkrk]

I feel really sorry for the situation at Humberside.
The airport is being strangled by big money at DSA.
The region did not need another airport at this time.
If HUY is more or less killed off, then how to justify opening a new airport down the road.Please, dont anybody mention the big runway again.Passengers make airports not tarmac. Look at Bristol, 6,600ft runway,flights to the states,5.6 million pax, say no more.

[pug]

wawkrk

I know i will get some flack for this but i do agree, though there is no point looking to the past anymore. DSA may be proving to be able to offer scheduled long haul flights now which must be seen as a good thing for the whole region.

I do think also that M<AG are holding back with investment at HUY, they could do a hell of a lot more with the place if they put some real investment in like they have at their other airports. I wouldnt be surprised if they ran it into the ground then tried palming it off to someone else. It seems like they only bought it to try and prevent DSA. That didnt work.

All we can hope for is that MAG do come to their senses and realise that there may be demand in this region for a number of low cost and charter routes. The unfortunate pulling out of XL has dented any hopes of expansion in that market probably for the next couple of years at least. The only slight glimmer of hope could be RE with flights to DUB.

Its getting harder and harder to be optimistic about the future. Something is fundamentally flawed and teh people of the region need to know why, for the sake of at leats our economy in this region, if we want see a rise in employment and the area flourish like it rightly deserves, and to be able to fly from our airport to the destinations we want to fly to, like people can from much smaller areas like Norwich and Exeter!:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[Devonair]

Pug. The same could be said about Plymouth. Plymouth is only slightly smaller than Hull and it's airport is woefully inadequate for a city that size. Any major growth in air travel from the far South West Peninsular will be from NQY and EXT both are around 70km from Plymouth. EXT should reach 1 million pax this year and NQY is not far from HUY's levels. It seems HUY is being squeezed by DSA and to a lesser extent LBA. EXT and NQY benefit from their distance from BRS and the absence of any real choice from PLH.

[pug]

Devonair, please correct me if im wrong, isnt PLH restricted by the size of its runway? I remember a group a couple of years back did a study for an airport to serve both Exeter and Plymouth?

I feel HUY has the infrastructure to expand, DSA may squeeze it and it does unfortunately limit the number of airlines who may look at HUY, but someone i am sure may try in the future. Hence the LS rumours and the RE rumour which i believe to be all go!

The thing the airport will be doing now though, i would assume, is trying to fing a replacement for XL. I believe the charter and the KLM feeder to be priority amongst the management at the present time.

[shannon55]

Maybe a Fly be based aircraft at HUY could be the solution to some of HUY's recent problems??They could take over the Dub and maybe fly a route to AMS like they do at Southampton. Other routes they could serve could be Glasgow and a regional French destination (or two!;) )

Might be a tad optimistc though:(

[pug]

Flybe's last excuse was lack of suitable aircraft, now that they are to start at DSA it makes things less likely, though i cant see them doing the sun routes from DSA (HUY would make those with a 195) there isnt realy much demand for the hight freq dash-8 routes except maybe CDG and LGW, the latter is highly unlikely :{

Who knows though they may want to run some sun routes from HUY as the other nearest airport the have that program from is NWI.

[shannon55]

;) All the same i think they'd be foolish not to take-over the dublin route should Ryanair pull out as rumoured...it may not have worked for Ryanair with the 189-seaters but a 70seater might be a little bit more practical and more efficient to operate on this route too

[circseam]

Have been following this type of thread for more years than I care to mention with regard to HUY and maximising its potential (or lack of!).

Over the years the type of thread explores the potential of HUY to attract more services, both scheduled and charter and while recent annouces have cast a dark cloud of this growth it always surprises me that airlines can attract enough people to generate and sustain the routes. As has previously been posted (how many times!) the catchment area of HUY is actually quite small and while the airport offers great personal service, with fast checking in times compared to bigger airports they just dont seem to be able to attract an operator who is prepared to work at routes, generate traffic and hopefully post a profit.

We are (well most are) aware of T3 (both original and latest incarnation) being based at the airport and yet flies one route (Aberdeen), in its original guise the airline operated more routes from HUY, even a route to Esbjerg (and that was its most profitable route until their demise in 1984) was operated.

So surely if their was money to be made from scheduled routes than the airports own "in-house" airline would be jumping to take over the Dublin flights and try other european routes.

well thats my view on the matter and while I profess to be no expert I would like to hear other peoples views and opinions, good or bad.

Circseam (not checked for spelling)

[airhumberside]

For DUB maybe Aer Arann would be a good option ;)
So surely if their was money to be made from scheduled routes than the airports own "in-house" airline would be jumping to take over the Dublin flights and try other european routes.
I say no. Eastern are a business orientated airline and Dublin is principally a leisure route. I think Eastern operating HUY-DUB would be like them operating STN-Bergerac or SOU-Brest, which if they happenned would be a complete flop

[pug]

Yeah, lets get eastern to take over some of the XL routes dropped :}

[pug]

Circseam over time it is becoming apparent that something is stopping airlines coming in. While the catchments size is similar in comparison to say NWI and EXT (some time ago HUY was ahead of both) the main problem is demographics. The average on the DUB flight was 89 pax, id say not bad at all if it was BE that would be a full flight would it not?

XL could have been a huge step for HUY, it is very hard to predict (being an enthusiast and not an expert) where HUY will go now. Will they build up their charters? Maybe try a lo-co? I believe they have met with LS a few times over services, the management often seem concerned when lo-co's are mentioned. Maybe they dont believe it would work? Or maybe they just cant invest to accomodate them and wish to ramble along at their own pace.

As we know, rumours of RE are rife, its sad looking at the routes XL were offering next year now though. SSH, CFU etc.

Has AGP been taken over yet? I believe more will become cear about S07 in the coming months.

[panda-k-bear]

Yes, it would be a more or less full flight. But what was the price offered in order to stimulate those 90 pax?

BE can't operate with those sort of prices because their cost base is not the same as Ryanair's. It's the same thing as arguing that it would fill 3 of Eastern's J31s.

Next point - all of the HUY traffic, bar very little, is outbound - i.e. originating in the Humber area. How do you attract inbound traffic? Bring people in from Spain and France to see the sights (or should that be sites) in Grimsby or Cleethorpes? Not really world class destinations, are they?

It's hard to see where HUY can attract new business from. A 30 seater into Germany, perhaps, to connect into the Lufthansa network and give KLM/Air France a run for their money? FRA? MUC?

The aircraft operated by the 'true' lo-cos are just too big.

Tough one.

[pug]

Next point - all of the HUY traffic, bar very little, is outbound - i.e. originating in the Humber area. How do you attract inbound traffic? Bring people in from Spain and France to see the sights (or should that be sites) in Grimsby or Cleethorpes? Not really world class destinations, are they?


The same could be said for MME, i would assume the majority of pax on the sun routes for lo-co's from most airports are outbound. There are a large number of foreign students coming to Hull and Lincoln to study also.

Yes, it would be a more or less full flight. But what was the price offered in order to stimulate those 90 pax?


I have accounted for that in past posts and should have said that too but missed it out, still if someone like BE could get 50-60 per flight on average they would be quite happy wouldnt they? But RE are strongly rumoured using even smaller a/c, though they do charge a lot more.

[panda-k-bear]

Pug, 50 - 60 on a 100 seater E-195, no they wouldn't be happy. Filling a Dash-8? Maybe. But look at BE's fares and look at Ryan's. Not the same ballpark.

Most of the other lo-co hubs have some sort of business type market of some sort. The unis won't really be keeping these guys in business during the week in term time or during the academic holidays, will they?

I WANT HUY to succeed. I'm desperate for it. I do use them. But not enough other peole do and it's hard to see where new trade is going to come from.

[pug]

Yes, dash 8 was what i meant, yes the fares are higher than FR, i am confident people would use it however.

There must be some business links in the region to keep KLM expanding, whether they do so well because they have been here for nearly 30 years and become established i dont know. They were talking about an AF service to compliment the KL, due to the popularity but dont want to step on KL's toes so decided against.

Obviously i dont know for sure im just being objective, i just dont think things can be ruled out until properly tried. FR was a disapointment but didnt come to so much surprise, XL could be devastating, we will only realy find out before summer if any flights are to be replaced.

I dont think there is much question of sun routes working with a lo-co however the scope for any real expansion is minimal which could be reason no airline has actualy invested.

[Andy_S]

There must be some business links in the region to keep KLM expanding
Keep KLM expanding? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they actually have rather LESS capacity between HUY and AMS than they used to a few years ago?

[Jet2LBA]

the management often seem concerned when lo-co's are mentioned.

Perhaps it could be the fear that LS or BE (who seem to be mentioned quite often as potential future operators at HUY) would want, amongst others, to start services on the one scheduled route proven as successful - AMS - and end up scaring away the sacred cow (KL). Whatever happens, the people running HUY will not want to do anything to make KL consider moving away. Even in the lean times the UK/KL AMS service has remained and provides a vital link to the rest of the world.

[aeulad]

HUY's AMS service has seen a varied capacity trend over the last few years. The most noticable was when it went from 4 F50s a day to 3 F100s, it then went to 6 F50s a day, and eventually to a mix of F70/F50 where it currently lies. As of the winter schedule, there will be 4 daily flights with the early p.m just MON-FRI. As of next summer, this new service will also run at weekends, making 4 flights each day of the week, 3 with the F70 and one with the F50. Although the best schedule was by far the 6 daily, no jets were involved. I wiew the provisional S07 schedule as the best since the start of the service all those years ago.

Regards

Mike

[pug]

Keep KLM expanding? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't they actually have rather LESS capacity between HUY and AMS than they used to a few years ago?

No, check the timetable for this winter and summer 07

Perhaps it could be the fear that LS or BE (who seem to be mentioned quite often as potential future operators at HUY) would want, amongst others, to start services on the one scheduled route proven as successful - AMS - and end up scaring away the sacred cow (KL). Whatever happens, the people running HUY will not want to do anything to make KL consider moving away. Even in the lean times the UK/KL AMS service has remained and provides a vital link to the rest of the world.

I think with BE it is morelikely, if anything, that they want the ABZ route. If so i recon HUY would be scared of T3 seeing those big hangars at DSA.

The airport has mentioned in its draft masterplan about lo-co's, it does raise their concernes of over capacity on routes which could have detrimental effects on both airlines concerned if a low cost operation started, particularly on the sun routes where the charter carriers are encountering problems.

[Andy_S]

No, check the timetable for this winter and summer 07

But they haven't "kept expanding", have they? Aeulad is spot on; capacity has actually fluctuated rather than grown in recent years. At one point HUY had six AMS rotations with capacity of about 600 seats. At present, there are half as many flights and about two thirds the capacity. Even next summer, tentatively, there'll still be less flights and less capacity between HUY and AMS than there used to be. I agree with Aeulad that you could make a case for saying next summers provisional schedule is the best that's been offered for a long time, but it's not the continual growth that you claim.

[pug]

Ok maybe keep was the wrong word, they are expanding however and showing their comitment to the airport, that cant be denied. It works out to be roughly 520 seats per day assuming 3x f70 and one f50 rotations. I believe most of the pax on this service have O/D in the Humber region, there is sufficient capacity for the feeder traffic at HUY with KLM, i dont think another feeder operation would be required now.

[nclairportfan]

Not sure if you have noticed but Humberside to Southampton is showing on the BE booking engine.

[BombardierCR7]

as discussed before it is a one off. There is a press release on flybe's website

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

Excel have pulled out due to the amount of diversions they have had to do throughout the summer period. Yes they did ask the airport for a CAT III ILS, but this was never going happen. The other cause of diversions has been lack of Fire Cover during the early mornings.A/C arrive over head the airfield at 0400 only to discover the Fire Section are not fully manned until 0500. The airport does no help itself and deserves to loose business.
The airport has a long history of attrating new airlines over the last 12 years only to find 6 months later when the FREE landing fees come to an end they pull out. HUY is now facing its quietest winter for charters for 10 years.

How long will Manchester hold onto HUY? It was only bought to try and block the development of DSA after MANCHESTER were turned down from buying it.

[circseam]

Hi guys,

After reading previous posts regarding new scheduled services to and from HUY, I still am of the opinion that BE and alike are just not going to give any route from HUY the time and effort required to build up a route, as we have seen over the years, operators have been attracted to HUY but are not prepared to work at the routes and my feeling is the only airline with the knowledge of the local market has to be T3.

I am aware that T3 are a regional airline catering mainly for the premium traffic and at premium prices, fair play to T3, that is their niche, that is their business plan but as we have seen before T3 take over routes dropped by incumbent operators and I personally think the Huy - Dub route could be ripe for the taking.

Ok, the pricing of the route must be attractive to the same market previously utilising the route and low cost pricing is just not T3, is it? However, as we have seen with Ryanair, the route is no doubt sustainable with the lower operating costs of a turboprop and with less seating than Ryanair was offering but the pricing has to generate the traffic.

C'mon T3

[shannon55]

I agree:} and disagree:= with parts of what you say. The DUB route is most definitely sustainable albeit with a smaller a/c and, as you say, a turboprop rather then a jet.;)
However, I don't see T3 as the ideal airline to operate this route as their prices, again as you say, are aimed at the premium passenger which I wouldn't believe makes up a very large proportion of the market for travel between HUY and DUB.
I still think Aer Arann would be the optimum airline to fly this route with maybe an ATR 42/72 as their prices would rest somewhere between RYR's and T3's and would cater for both a premium and leisure passenger.:ok:

[pug]

T3 would work on routes with particular business interest, ABZ being the one at HUY. CPH and Espjerg worked in the past and could be potential routes in the future but it is doubtful T3 would be interested. BRU worked well with a twice daily J31 (the route was to go thrice daily) but the route was pulled just before and Sabena, the code share partner of Euro direct belgie? had no suitable a/c for the route. Same as CDG after Gills demise.

Although FR have not been able to keep the DUB at HUY, it has proved that, while DSA operated a DUB route, HUY did pull in around 5000 pax every month (nearly 6000 in August) without affecting the numbers at DSA, this surely proves there is demand in a smaller capacity machine. Saying again RE is rumoured to take the route on, despite having higher ticket prices they could get it right with the size of a/c they operate.

Is it true the airport are looking at another 'global gateway' to compliment the AMS services?

[panda-k-bear]

flybe - HUY to SOU has appeared on their website. Any comments?

[SWBKCB]

Posts 52 + 53 a couple of pages back explain all.

[circseam]

Hi guys,

Is Huy capable of sustained growth for scheduled operations, past performance of incumbent operators of the airport seem to reflect the answer is a negative.

Withstanding sentimental thoughts that each one of us are protecting a local regional airport, especially with an alternative that has seen huge growth and like it or not is dliuting the potential traffic from the airport does Huy need to examine long term exactly which market it needs to attract to grow / maximise its revenues.

Low cost / regional operators seem attracted but are not prepared to spend the time and money to grow routes from the airport, the low costs seem to of attracted alot of intrest and self loading cargo has flocked to the airport but to continually fill an aircraft of the 7373 / A320 family seems to be not sustainable at the moment. A smaller aircraft but offering the schedule recently offered I presume could work but is such an airline prepared to invest in the long term, I doubt that this is the case, shareholder returns seem to prevent this short term loss against a profitable (marginally maybe!) long term investment.

Would be intrested to hear peoples thoughts and views of the above

Regards

Circseam

[pug]

I think if anyone knew the true answer it would have been posted on here by now, i fear this debate will go around in circles forever.

A smaller aircraft but offering the schedule recently offered I presume could work but is such an airline prepared to invest in the long term, I doubt that this is the case, shareholder returns seem to prevent this short term loss against a profitable (marginally maybe!) long term investment.



Again RE is rumoured but who knows? Probably not even the airport going by the FR rumour last year. When you say investing in the long term do you mean expansion of routes? The limited expansion potential would probably deter a lo-co from basing aircraft, perhaps one of the reasons they havent got one.

Withstanding sentimental thoughts that each one of us are protecting a local regional airport, especially with an alternative that has seen huge growth and like it or not is dliuting the potential traffic from the airport does Huy need to examine long term exactly which market it needs to attract to grow / maximise its revenues.


The current KLM route and the charter routes are, i believe, the strongest market for HUY as far as pax services goes. They must at leats keep those assets before entering into low cost services proper which are as yet un proven at HUY.

[Darbo]

Hotel Uniform Yankee

XLA have pulled out due to a "reorganigation of the business", not as far as I know due to Diversions or lack of fire cover or raising of landing fees.

Just where do you get such information? Certainly not from XLA! I work for the company, live locally, as do many crew, both pilots and cabin crew, who have been flying out of HUY this summer and I can assure you we have done our utmost to keep the program running and keep the base open, but beancounters rule the roost!

Just for your info, I'm aware of 4 divs, all for different reasons - only 2 were for weather, which could happen anywhere. Being a Cat III airfield would not have helped in either instance as the RVR was too low even for Cat III Autoland.

Some of the flights were 70% other airlines' pax so maybe they will continue next year with their own aircraft? Who knows.

Thank you to all the non-xla staff who helped keep things on the rails for the summer.

TD

[pug]

I think all of this CatIII talk has come from an apparent meeting between management of airline and airport, XLA wanted to know if installing CatIII was feasible. Management said no. Nothing to do with them pulling out as above.

[airhumberside]

It has also been posted on another forum by an Excel employee that lack of cat 3/weather diversion are the reason for Excel leaving HUY

There was also an interesting letter in the Grimsby Telegraph about the diversion of last weeks Malaga flight to DSA. Apparently it was a fog diversion but the person who wrote the letter suspected it was because the airport had closed (flight was late) as there was little fog at HUY at the time

Whatever the reason is for the XLA pull out though, any word on what is hapenning next summer? Excel timetable shows HER and PMI on a Tuesday plus a one off Malaga flight

[airhumberside]

Anyone any update on what is hapenning re the charters next summer as the info on Excel and the tour operators website isnt worth the webspace it uses

[GBALU53]

Well Humberside watch this space with the way aviation is going at the moment some new commers will come on the odd charter scene.

With BA Connect now comming under the Flybe world, some of the weekend charter flights they operated in the summer months may be going to companies that are just building up there work force.??:ok: :ok:

[EI-BUD]

I agree with comments here that B738 was too big for the DUB route. However, like the Cardiff scenario, I believe Aer Arann have looked at the possibility.

Although Ryanair was seeing too low a load factor, surely it was 50% or greater which would be around 90 pax each way. Surely if Aer Arann got half that number it would justify a daily ATR rotation. I believe this has been the experience at Cardiff about half the Ryanair volume.

In my opinion brand new routes like these need a smaller aircraft by a low fares airline. Flybe comes to mind, and in time when developed could be upgraded. What does anyone else think. I would love to see the route reinstated.

[7006 fan]

Just wonder if HUY has a future as a regional? This winter it is only KLM and Eastern that are making major movements each day, a couple of 'bucket and spade' operations and that is it.
HUY keep going on and on about jam tomorrow, but in 4 years what has happened? A substantial hangar built by a private firm, the Police heliport an extension of the arrivals hall and a large car park. (must be investing for future growth) :hmm:
With the greatest respect to Newquay, it is not a major business destination BUT it does have 4/5 flights to Gatwick per day and a Ryanair to Stanstead (even in winter!). HUY has not even trialled a London flight on a shared risk basis. HUY is just too risk averse to contemplate a leap in the dark.
Someone I know spoke to HUY about routing but HUY were somewhat cold as he was not a 'name', entrepeneur yes, 'name' no! He could not be bothered after that.
:ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[airhumberside]

HUY keep going on and on about jam tomorrow, but in 4 years what has happened? A substantial hangar built by a private firm,
Anyone know what is going on with that. The doors were open yesterday (yes that is newsworthy!!!) but it has been finished for over a year but not yet been taken over by any maintenance company or airline

[niknak]

"With the greatest respect to Newquay, it is not a major business destination BUT it does have 4/5 flights to Gatwick per day and a Ryanair to Stanstead (even in winter!). HUY has not even trialled a London flight on a shared risk basis. HUY is just too risk averse to contemplate a leap in the dark."

Well, that's one risk they've done very well to avoid, a flight to LHR or LGW would be financial suicide as the operating costs would require the equivilant of at least 50 full fare paying passengers on each sector every day. As the majority of passengers on such flights are interlining to/from destinations worldwide, the airline would only get a small percentage of the fare for the HUY - London - HUY leg.
I exclude London City as it is so expensive to land and operate from there, there is not enough prospective trade from HUY to even think about an operation there.
Again, in terms of cost, Stansted has little or nothing to offer in terms of an airline operating from HUY and never will.

As for the rest, history has clearly demonstrated that the only viable schedule services from HUY are ABZ and AMS.
Low cost is a non starter owing to the bizzare attitude of the airport authority (who recognise that, even if you have to lose out on passenger taxes, increased pax numbers in the terminals means more trade for the airport shops and increased revenue for the airport company, and operate this system at EMA, BOU and MAN but not at HUY).

Sad really, HUY had so much potential and, now that DSA are on the scene, they've blown a good opportunity they'll never have again.

[Punditgreen]

"As for the rest, history has clearly demonstrated that the only viable schedule services from HUY are ABZ and AMS."
Agreed - the catchment area is insufficient unless the size of aircraft and the frequency of the service are taken into account carefully.
"Low cost is a non starter owing to the bizzare(sic) attitude of the airport authority (who recognise that, even if you have to lose out on passenger taxes, increased pax numbers in the terminals means more trade for the airport shops and increased revenue for the airport company, and operate this system at EMA, BOU and MAN but not at HUY)."
Surely this statement is in direct confliction with the one above? Low-cost use 738's with nearly 200 seats, and then demand 75%+ load factors in order to make the services "viable". If they put one of these on every day of the week every man woman and child within 15miles radius would have to travel on it every year to make it "viable". If they simply charged more than £4.99p for a seat they would increase the "viability" - but of course that wouldn't look good in the adverts, would it?
It has been said before by others and I make no apology for saying it again: The so -called "passenger tax" does NOT go to the Airport. Approx 5-10% goes to the Airport and is the only payment the Airport receives from the Operator except (heavily discounted) fuel on the rare occasion it is needed. A percentage (I believe 10-15%) goes to the Government, but the whopping remainder goes directly to the Airline - enabling them to charge next to nothing for the seats in the full knowledge that they will get their money anyway. Couple that with the awareness that no-one is going to buy a bottle of perfume/whisky/etc when they are going on a 40minute flight to somewhere where it's cheaper anyway, and you find that the Airport makes precious little if anything out of low-cost flights. Unless, of course, there are a number of based aircraft, consequently many more flights to many different destinations, so that more shops and outlets can be franchised to cater for the greatly increased trade (Oh, but hang on, aren't we back at the start - not enough catchment?!)
An Operator with smaller aircraft and a "work with", not "work against" attitude is needed.

[pug]

From an outsiders perspective the operators of HUY have rested on their laurels until it was far too late, it is dangerous for any business to do this. As Niknak says the opportunity was there pre DSA. The associated authorities obviously thought DSA would never happen and have been unwilling to leave the 'comfort zone', their strengths, charter flights and the AMS and ABZ.

MAG have the money to make the place work, bring in operators to try new routes. I feel now HUY will probably be palmed off within the next few years either back to the local councils or perhaps to Peel. I just cannot see a future for HUY as a passenger airport under its current ownership, or if the latter got hold and things could start winding down, particularly after the anouncement of XL pulling out.

Final nail in the coffin?

[RobT100]

.........remember Sheffield Airport ???????

[Thrush]

The local rumour is that HUY lost the Cat II status when the "new" fire station was built as it's too close to the runway and the protected area......! The figure mentioned was 2 metres too close.

Is this true? If it is, well, what a mess.:ugh:

Anyone know if it's true? C'mon - some of you have been with Air UK/KLM at HUY for years and must know! SATCO - is it true?

[pug]

Rob t100, i share the same thought, i wouldnt be surprise if HUY did fall into Peels hands some time in the next few years, eradicate any competition HUY poses to DSA. If things realy are coming away at the seams i cant see the airport remaining open as it is today, you just cant rely on two scheduled services and the odd, unstable, charter service. Lo-co is the future for short haul european holidays, HUY has failed to realise this.

[Leodis]

If we look at the 'new' airport down the road, IMO the 'new' airport hasn't been the runaway success that that airport operator claimed it would be. As far as I am concerned all DSA has done is redistributed other Yorkshire traffic away from HUY and LBA to DSA ie. Thomsonfly 'DSA' which will be squat dead if Jet2 at Leeds has anything to do with it!

[holidaymax]

If we look at the 'new' airport down the road, IMO the 'new' airport hasn't been the runaway success that that airport operator claimed it would be.

The 'new' airport down the road aims to cater for 2.3 million passengers and 50,000 tonnes of freight each year within five years of its opening (April 2005). At the moment in its first full year it is on target to handle 1.1 million passengers, if that not successful I don't know how you perceive success.

It already has flights to Florida, Mexico, (Soon to be) Canada and Pakistan, of which none of the other airports in Yorkshire can lay claim to.

If LBA and HUY were offering the right product then why would people move their business? All three airports are doing well so theres no need to be sour/negative.

[RobT100]

The 'new' airport down the road aims to cater for 2.3 million passengers and 50,000 tonnes of freight each year within five years of its opening (April 2005). At the moment in its first full year it is on target to handle 1.1 million passengers, if that not successful I don't know how you perceive success.
It already has flights to Florida, Mexico, (Soon to be) Canada and Pakistan, of which none of the other airports in Yorkshire can lay claim to.
If LBA and HUY were offering the right product then why would people move their business? All three airports are doing well so theres no need to be sour/negative.

Maybe you do not know but LBA has flights to Barbados regularly through the winter for cruises. What I can't understand is why don't they run these from DSA as the carrier is ThomsonFly ???

Answers on a postcard !

[682ft AMSL]

The AIRLINE is Thomsonlfy, the company CHARTERING the aircraft is Fred Olsen or P&O.

If someone is prepared to contract with Thomsonfly (the airline) and pay them a seat rate which Thomsonfly (the airline) find acceptable then they will fly from pretty much anywhere in the UK to pretty much anywhere overseas. If you offer them £100,000 and ask them to fly you and your mates down to Spain for the weekend, I'm sure they will oblige.

This however has almost no bearing on whether TUI (the tour operator) will commit to offering package holidays out of the same UK airport, be it with thomsonfly (the airline) or any other airline for that matter.

The point is, by definition, there are two parties involved in a charter flight and just because you see a Thomsonfly aircraft doesn't mean it is being chartered by TUI.

Hope that is clear

[holidaymax]

Maybe you do not know but LBA has flights to Barbados regularly through the winter for cruises. What I can't understand is why don't they run these from DSA as the carrier is ThomsonFly ???
Answers on a postcard !

682ftAMSL has pretty much answered your question as the cruise company choose the airline, not the airline choosing the airport. But maybe you do not know that so far DSA has 3 flights to Barbados this winter and 1 to Fort Lauderdale, and next winter so far lined up are 2 flights to Barbados, 2 flights to Montego Bay and 1 to New Orleans with more to follow.

[Punditgreen]

At the risk of being seen to "rise to the bait" there are some totally unfounded and plain wrong "facts" being bandied about. Some people are impressionable whilst others seem to have nothing but malice. It requires rational explanation and then let it die please.
1. The Obstacle treatment applicable to Cat I, CatII and Cat III ILS's is identical with respect to the Transitional Surface and the Inner Horizontal Surface. There is a slight difference between the Baulked Landing Surface (BLS) within the Obstacle Free Zone. This starts 900m beyond the landing threshold and splays at 10%. It will therefore be apparent that any obstacle (building) at any airport which permits Cat I operation will permit Cat II or III operation also. The building so freely attributed to be "an Obstruction" is also outside the BLS being, as it is, only 750m from the landing threshold.
But of course any air traffic controller or professional pilot would know this, or know where to find it (CAP 168 Chapter 4 paras 4,5,8,9):rolleyes:
2. Where this Cat II discussion started is anybodies guess, but Humberside is just one of 26 "Airports" within the UK with a Cat I ILS only. Of the others at least 11 could be argued to have more Commercial passenger carrying movements. These include Aberdeen, Bournemouth, Cardiff, Coventry, Doncaster, Durham, IOM, London City, Jersey, Norwich, Prestwick and Southampton. Not many of these would be actively contemplating the installation of Cat II ILS. It is driven by a very high number of diversions, it is not the presence (or absence) of ILS Cat II that attracts traffic.

[pug]

The ILS came about because someone claimed the reason XL pulled from the airport next year was a lack of Cat III.

Looking at the airports listed this is obviously false.

[niknak]

On the subject of Cat 3 ILS, it's not particularly a matter of obstacle clearance but more to do with the extra ground facilities required, i.e runway lighting and additional holding points.
For example, at Leeds, the location and poor weather you encounter when you develop an airport at 628ft justifies the extra investment in facilities, whereas at HUY, NWI and others which are both just over 100ft above SL, the investment has not been worthwhile.

XL didn't pull from HUY because of a lack of Cat 3 ILS, it was because of lack of trade.

As for DSA, they have some way to go before they catch up with the progress that LBA have made, but at the rate they are going, they'll make 2million pax within the next 18 months, not through scheduled services, but via the long haul market which LBA cannot cater for.

[HOODED]

NIKNAK, your last statement is slightly misleading. "LBA can not cater for long haul" both LBA and HUY can handle long haul and indeed both have albeit charters. 767s to Barbados is medium haul is it?
Whilst being pedantic I agree with your sentiments long haul is an exception due to runway length but LBA has in it's masterplan small starter extensions which would do the trick, but will they do it in time to stop DSA. Sadly for HUY I feel it is too late.

[lorddee]

B747 To YYZ so LBA can handle l/h

[Punditgreen]

Once again a lot of what niknak says is sensible, except that little nugget of misinformation in the middle.
Many of you (including him) have pointed out that Humberside's strength is in charters - it is what the populace seem to want. Any proposed charter is nearly booked solid before the season starts. Excel based aircraft (06) was on exclusively charter duties, with large numbers of seats booked before they even announced that they would no longer base one in 07. Most, if not all, have been picked up by the other operators on W rotations, so to say that Excel left because of lack of pax is fallacious (in the same way as saying it was down to lack of Cat II ILS). It is important to differentiate between lack of pax on daily repetitive schedules in large aircraft and weekly charter flights to popular holiday destinations.
If anything, re-organisation at Excel bringing about a last-in first-out "chop" is the most likely explanation. Note: they have also chopped the CWL based aircraft.

[isa kite]

Has everyone seen the discussion on the East Midlands thread concerning the possible sale of MAG's 3 smaller airports?

[airhumberside]

This could either be great news or really bad news

First question though is will the airports be sold as a group or individually?

[pug]

I can imagine Peel rubbing their hands right now, they will almost certainly be interested in NEMA and HUY and could see BOH as a gateway to the south.

[Andy_S]

I can imagine Peel rubbing their hands right now, they will almost certainly be interested in NEMA and HUY

The only reason Peel would be interested in HUY is to close it down and move the flights to DSA.........

[pug]

Andy-S, i was not thinking of anything else.

[airhumberside]

Some good news to report. Goldtrail Holidays will have weekly Bodrum and Dalaman flights next summer between July and October. Airline is Onur Air. That gives 4 flights a week to DLM next year, the second most frequently served charter destination after Palma

[airhumberside]

Considering their reputation a pinch of salt may be needed, but Humberside has appeared in Air Scotland's booking engine

[niknak]

Some good news to report. Goldtrail Holidays will have weekly Bodrum and Dalaman flights next summer between July and October. Airline is Onur Air. That gives 4 flights a week to DLM next year, the second most frequently served charter destination after Palma

Goldtrail have also been advertising the exact same flights via nearlly all travel agents, to Bodrum and Dalaman from several other UK airports, same times, same aircraft.
I suspect that they are trawling for the most passengers from one particular area and will settle for the closest airport, the rest will be bused to that airport and given the usual lame excuses.......:ugh: :confused:

[empty monty]

Has anybody heard anything of significance (intentional oxymoron) about Humberside? We enquire of management and, no surprise, get shrugged shoulders and nothing more.

[airhumberside]

Something significant and Humberside doesn't seem to go together. Things this year will probably be about 2005 levels and there is no sign of anything new on the horizon - the Jet 2 rumour having gone very quiet

[airhumberside]

Not that significant, but good news anyway

Playing about with the Inghams booking engine - looks like HUY has got an INN flight next winter ski season. OS2382 departing at 0940 on Saturdays which should complement Plovdiv well :)

There is also an advert for INN in a travel agents window at HUY

I guess the flight will be operated with an Austrian Arrows (Tyrolean) CRJ or Fokker 70. And most Innsbruck ski routes with Inghams are also served in summer for lakes and mountains holidays - so could Innsbruck be the first new summer 2008 destination and HUY's first lakes and mountains destination?

Rather nice to be able to report a new route and some good to news to start 2007 with. Now just have to await the official announcement

[panda-k-bear]

So no news at all since January? Is it really this quiet? It seems to point to that fact that the doom-mongers are right and that Humberside really does have nothing going for it... Sad, truly sad. What of the a.m. Tyrolean route?

[airhumberside]

Affraid the only news in bad news - Monastir dropped

The Tyrolean (now Austrian Arrows) service is the new Innsbruck aski charter next summer

KLM have gone 4xDaily at weekends now with the start of the summer timetable

[airhumberside]

The final masterplan has been released - little has chamged from the draft version

[pug]

Have avoided the forums for sometime now, things seem to be winding down at HUY....

How sad

[niknak]

Pug,

if what you say is true, it is indeed very sad, but please shed light upon winding down.....

[airhumberside]

I dont think winding down, more like stagnant with little prospect of growth. AMS has gained an exra daily flight recently, theres new flights for Goldtrail Holidays and Inghams. But of course there has been other charter reductions (notably from XL pulling out), and FR pulling out.

The airport website news page tells the story quite well - nothing to report

[pug]

I am of course making assumptions realy but it is plain to see the airport is in a steady decline as far as commercial operations go.

A-H AMS is a great service but if what appears to be happening continues the viability of maintaining passanger handling facilities with staffing etc would be seriously under question.

I am not too downbeat as DSA is not realy that far away and if they can make it a great success then the region as a whole, including the former Humberside, will feel the rewards.

Charter operations are in decline across the board, with added pressure now on aviation due climate change airports such as HUY will feel the brunt of the declines due to increased costs. HUY has next to no chance of attracting a lo-co also.

[airhumberside]

Im not going to comment on costs as I have no experiene or knowledge of those but:

HUY has been profitable in the past with about the same number of flights as now

There is no decline in charters next year, compared with this summer, so far. Now things could change, or next summer could be a blip in a trend of decline, but on the charter front things are looking stagnant for next year, and not like a decline

Politically closing an airport is not going to be easy, especially when it has a loyal passenger base. Difficult decisions have to be made sometimes but what politican on Noth Lincolnshire Council would agree to closing the popular local airport? And it only takes for the press to publicise that MAN is the main shareholder and many passengers wont be going across the M62 instead but to DSA and LBA

And finally how many people are really prepared to stop having a holiday because of climate change? - this is curently unclear so I would be reluctant to factor this in to future predictions. Recycling is one thing, but giving up the annual holiday something different

[niknak]

I don't think that closure will take place in the near future, but as the owners, (MAN PLC), treat each of their airports as a separate business enterprise, there's no doubt that HUY is truely at the bottom of their pile.

MAN bought HUY for next to nothing plus a commitment to take on the debt at the time of purchase (in other words a sop to get RWY 2 at MAN), they've invested a minimal amount and probably earned enough on a daily basis to service operating costs and ongoing financial obligations.

In other words, IF MAN PLC could find a buyer for perhaps £3M to £5M, they'd make a few quid out of it and probably off load it tommorrow.

Likely interest would be from a private equity group who would look to do much the same over a 5 year period.
Aside from the tatty but functional terminal building, very little investment is required at HUY to provide for ongoing and future op's, the political will is there to keep it open and consequently it would be a good prospect for anyone with the will to sit on their money for a while - which is what equity geezers do.

[airhumberside]

There was an article that MAN would sell all their regional airports last year, think in 'The Business' magazine, but nothing ever came of it

With the current appetite for infrastructure assets, I guess it would be a good time to sell if MAN really wanted too

[pug]

I dont think the airport will close entirely, i cant see Eastern airways moving or the GA activity declining.

I know we have all pointed the finger at the management in the past, maybe they have gone wrong somewhere, im starting to think now that it realy is the catchment area afterall. Perhaps i didnt want to think this way before but surely the management have done all they can to attract lo-co and charter ops and it just isnt happening. DSA is here now, a serious contender for the regions major airport. Had it not been built i have no doubt one of the low costs will have come to HUY but they would have been severely restricted with destinations to offer. We would have still had the trek to MAN or NEMA... DSA has chance of offering more than HUY ever could.

FR gave HUY a go, the pax numbers were dire, i had confidence in them picking up but after hearing of people still going from this region to DSA for the exact same service i lost all hope. People just dont want to use HUY for some reason....

[johnnychips]

You can kick this straight out of court if you think I'm talking rubbish, but is there still an East Riding v North Lincolnshire mentality that subconsciously puts Hull residents off using it? After all, Humberside Council was abolished, evidently with the approval of parties on either side of the river.

The success of the AMS flights seems to depend on the petrochemical industry, which is largely situated on the south bank.

It would be interesting to see any available figures for the origin of passengers.

But also, public transport is dire, and there seems to be little publicity.

[airhumberside]

Dont think those from the North Bank are put off using HUY because of the name

There is plenty of publicity, mainly on buses - every other bus is Hull it seems has a HUY advert on. Theres also the airport magazine mailed to customers. Dare I say it, but way more advertising than DSA

[pug]

I do think there is an element of people from Hull thinking DSA is their local airport, particularly from the media coverage theyve had over the last couple of years. The sub consious mentality is that its over the cbridge and therefore far away.

Although the site is located well in theory, between the main population centers, it is far too isolated to attract a decent based operator. It should have been built in or near Hull.

A-H i read on your site there may be a loss of winter flights?

[airhumberside]

First Choice have pulled all winter flights - although they only served Tenerife, and I suspect that flight will continue and Airtours will take over First Choice's allocation. First Choice will still do their Lapland day trip

Gran Canaria does look like it is axed though. Not on sale with ThomsonFly or Airtours any more, only Thomas Cook, and I suspect they wont take all the seats themselves

[airhumberside]

Mentioned in the MME thread is that Servisair had lost the KLM contract to Aviance at MME and this could mean pulling out of 5 other airports. Does that include HUY - I cant see Servisair staying if they have lost the KLM HUY contract because in winter on some days they would have no flights to handle? (T3 handle themselves) And if it does include HUY, are Aviance going to step in?

Some news. The Summer ALC has been axed, and it looks like the Air Europa IBZ for Thomson has been too (Iberworld flight for Airtours remains). However Onur Air are using A300's to Bodrum, and filling them, for Goldtrail Holidays. Both Dalaman and Bodrum for Goldtrail Holidays start in March next year

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

I cannot see it changing anything at HUY. Because SERVISAIR are the only handing agent (forgeting T3) at HUY, therefore KLM will continue to be handled by them. The difference at MME is that there was more than 1 handling agent. Aviance would not be starting up at HUY as there is just not enough work for 1, never mind 2 handling agents. I believe there is only 2 charter flights per week this winter at HUY, their worst for some years.

[airhumberside]

Theres 4 charters that run all winter (2xTFS, 1xACE, 1xALC), 2 that run in the ski season only (1xINN, 1xPlovdiv) and 2 extra in March and April (1xDLM, 1XBodrum)

[airhumberside]

Theres 4 charters that run all winter (2xTFS, 1xACE, 1xALC),
Make that 3 - The Tuesday TFS has been dropped :{

[dumdumbrain]

I wonder if Ryanairs EMA-TFS had anythiing to do with it? Since Humberside isn't that far really, I often have people from Hull on my flight from EMA

Lee

[BombardierCR7]

Doubt it, more like existing competition - Jet2 LBA and TOM DSA that will have had an impact. I don't think the FR EMA has been on sale long enough to make such a quick impact, after all, there is no indication on how well or not the bookings are for the FR EMA-TFS at this stage.

[dumdumbrain]

yeh maybe your right, but EMA catchment area does extend up to Humberside, I remeber from when I did my degree at Hull It really isnt that far at all once on the M1. With regards to bookings for TFS from EMA with Ryanair I can tell you the first month of is looking about loads of 70% already ;). It';s just a matter of time untill the number of flights a week is increased.

Lee

[airhumberside]

I suspect the dropped TFS flight is to do with the First Choice winter pull out from HUY (except a Lapland flight) announced some weeks ago. They shared with Airtours to TFS in winter. The 2nd, now dropped, flight was shared between Thomson and Thomas Cook. My guess is that Thomas Cook are now sharing with Airtours (due to their merger) and Thomson, with no sharer, have therefore axed their flight and can still offer passengers DSA-TFS

[airhumberside]

Seems to be some issues with 'hangar 9' (thats the big one that was unoccupied for quite a while) - its up for a quick sale or lease. Anyone know anymore? Financial problems?

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

Heard today that it has just been sold. I suspect to Eastern Airways.

[bob marley]

ive heard they dont want it, they have use of every other hanger at the airport, iv heard that scotia are the new favourites to lease it if the airport buys it back

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

The latest is a engineering company who supply maintainance to airlines such as KLM. Apparently they are looking at doing heavy engineering.

[niknak]

HUY,
would that be KLM Engineering then? -KLM do the large majority of their own engineering and maintenance and all their own heavy maintenace unless specialist/one off expertise is required.
For that they have specialist major bases at Amsterdam and Norwich, so that knocks that inconsequetial rumour on the head.

That rules them out, so who else could the airport be offering a large shed for minimal rent to?

Pikies, rave organisers, fill it full of sand and it could be Cleethorpes 2 (the Winter alternative), or perhaps like the rest of the airport, it will be a superb facility without hope for the future.

[pug]

Grain store?

[ericlday]

Humberside Airport announced an impressive 68 percent increase in turnover for July compared to the same time last year. Turkey was the most popular summer holiday destination with Cyprus coming second, closely followed by Majorca.

Rob Goldsmith, managing director at Humberside Airport, said: 'We're delighted with the recent performance. It has been a busy few months and we hope the trend will continue. We're now looking ahead to the winter season and look forward to welcoming even more new travellers.'

[aeulad]

This is for Humberside Airport Travel, not for Humberside Airport. Good all the same.

Regards

Mike

[airhumberside]

That article is selective in the information Im afraid. Ther airport press release states that 92% of bookings in July at Humberside Airport Travel where late bookings, and therefore not full price holidays I would guess, which wont give good yields

August passengers figures are mixed, whith some excellent performances and some poor ones

[airhumberside]

Some good news to report - Scottravel Holidays will start a weekly Dalaman service next summer. They will use Freebird on a Monday night. Arrive at 1840 (FHY509) and depart at 1950 (FHY510). No official announcement yet – information from their online booking engine

This will mean 5 flights a week to Dalaman next summer, with 3 on Mondays. Freebird are a new airline to Humberside

[SAM-EMA]

Could anyone please explain all of this from the HUY Departure board today:

SCO117:35DimlingtonDeparted 16:35
KL149717:10AmsterdamLanded 17:06
SCO118:54DimlingtonDeparted 17:54 17:31
No Airport 18:21
No Airport 16:56
No Airport
T375517:05AberdeenLanded 17:01
EZE595P18:59London StanstedDeparted 17:59
SCO118:40DimlingtonLanded 17:40SCO118:09
DimlingtonDeparted 17:09 17:34
Unclassified AirstripLanded 16:34
T375720:25Aberdeen 17:51Oxford - KidlingtonDeparted 16:51 17:09Sherburn-in-elmetDeparted 16:09
KL149817:50AmsterdamDeparted 17:48
SCO119:12DimlingtonLanded 18:12
T375617:35AberdeenDeparted 17:37 17:53
Unclassified AirstripLanded 16:53
KL149921:15Amsterdam SCO117:43DimlingtonDeparted 16:43
SCO119:04DimlingtonLanded 18:04

Cheers
SAM-EMA

[niknak]

Blimey! Desperation by the airport authority to make it look busy!

All references to "Dimlington" are North Sea helicopter flights operated by Scotia.
EZE595P - a positioning flight departing after doing who knows what, but it's a one off flight.
Several references to light a/c flights (Oxford, Sherburn, Unclassified flights).

Amsterdam and Aberdeen - the only scheduled services Humberside has.

Under normal circumstances, the only flights you would see on the departure boards are commercial charters and scheduled services, i.e the Amsterdam and Aberdeen flights and whatever IT flights are operating that day.
Humberside has a seperate helicopter terminal therefore its all the more suprising that helicopter movements are dispalyed in the main terminal, as theyre of little interest to anyone.

Its the sign of desperation from an airport going down the pan fast...

[isa kite]

More likely a computer glitch - obviously all the data is in the system for Air Traffic and CAA log purposes, and is usually filtered for the public display screens

[airhumberside]

It happens quite often

[pikanin]

Take a look inside the hanger next time you pass. Doors are usually wide open. They are building an enclosed structure inside the hanger - Oct 4th - that is explained to visitors as a bonded store for A/C parts. KLM engineering? The owner Ibbotson is already planning another structure, slightly smaller, on the land between No9 and CHC.

[bob marley]

trust me, a computer glich WAS to blame!!
new building between hanger 9 and Eastern is to be a freight hanger

[airhumberside]

The long talked about perishables hub?

[bob marley]

thats the one! starting work on it before xmas im told

[airhumberside]

Some good news to report
Quote:
Theres 4 charters that run all winter (2xTFS, 1xACE, 1xALC),

Make that 3 - The Tuesday TFS has been dropped
Only to return next winter (2008/09). The tour operator is Thomson. Also looks like MYT/TCX will be nightstopping on Thursday/Friday again

[airhumberside]

HUY has secured a Fred Olsen cruise flight to Fort Lauderdale next November :)

[airhumberside]

There will be a new Antalya charter next summer operated by Onur Air for Goldtrail Holidays. Thomas Cook currently have an Antalya flight. Next summer sees 8 weekly Turkey charters

[wawkrk]

(Next summer sees 8 weekly Turkey charters)

Seems Christmas is coming early to Humberside :cool:

[airhumberside]

I dont think it's Christmas. This flight, and the other new one (Freebird to Dalaman) replace Alicante and Ibiza (Thomson flight) so things are looking pretty static next summer. Good news anyway to get a new flight, and static is better than decline :)

[niknak]

Dont get too excited, Goldtrail are very astute at "playing the field", they market holidays from various UK airports and lo & behold, those that have good advance bookings operate as advertised, those that don't suddenly get transferred to other airports.
I seem to remember they did precisely that at Humberside last year - the latter that is.

[LBIA]

I seem to remember they did precisely that at Humberside last year - the latter that is.

No Goldtrail didn’t do that at HUY last year. If i remember correctly they planned to start last years once weekly service in July as it was only announced a couple of months before May.

This past summer they sent in 2 weekly OHY, Airbus A300's. One each from Bodrum and Dalaman.

Correct me if I’m wrong though.

[aeulad]

In fact, during S07, the vast majority of GT holidays that were initially advertised from regional airport, actually operated. HUY's BJV was operated 99% of the time with A300 a/c, and the DLM with the A321. The only negative thing I can see happening, is HUY losing the Thomas Cook AYT after S08 due to the fact that GT are invariably cheaper.

Regards

Mike

[pug]

Its far better than a loss of routes, hopefuly things will start to look up again after next year

[BKS Air Transport]

I'm sorry if this is an old chestnut, but I'm going to mention it anyway. By my reckoning Humberside is now the only airport in the UK named after a region. Humberside will have no meaning outside the UK, and little within it, the political entity having been abolished some time ago. Is it not time to consider a change of name to the cities it serves? Grimsby/Hull or Hull/Grimsby? They may not have the highest of European profiles, but they have to have more than Humberside. Does anyone know if there is any legal reason why the name could not be changed, such as a daft clause left by the now defunct county council after the airport was privatised?

[SWBKCB]

East Midlands, Kent International and, stretching a point, Durham Tees Valley

[pug]

To make everyone in the region happy it would need to be Hull Grimsby Scunthorpe Lincoln International Airport... Probably just down to not wanting to cast anyone out they still use Humberside.

My opinion would be Hull Lincolnshire Airport or Hull Grimsby, you would have thought it would market the airport better to airlines etc??

[wawkrk]

To carry on with the latest fashion, how about Friar Tuck International.:)

[airhumberside]

Remember NEMA - Nottingham may have liked the name change but Derby and Leicester didn't and it's now back to simple EMA

Simply I don't think there is a name that will please everyone, so probably best to keep how it how it is

[Wellington Bomber]

How about Harry Haddock International?:ok:

[niknak]

Kirmington - always was, always will be.

[wawkrk]

It could have been John Prescott International.
Unfortunately he supported DSA in an attempt to kill off his home airport. Or, maybe he thought the region needed more airports.I suppose similar to owning 2 Jags..:mad:

[BKS Air Transport]

Hull-Lincolnshire is long winded, and the Lincolnshire would drop off abroad, but it has a certain quality to it.
On a different topic of names, I recall that in the not too distant past Air Anglia (now KLM) split their Humberside scheduled services between Kirmington and the BAe plant at Brough, a short train ride from Hull. Could anybody tell me
1) Why they did this;
2) What the Brough site was called in timetables;
3) Is the infrastructure still at Brough for public transport fligths?

[Yak97]

If I remember correctly, Brough became an unlicensed airfield because a chimney was built on the approach to one of the runways. Didn't affect Bae flights at the time, as they were private operation.
Add: From Wiko....
"As of 7th September 2007 the company are intending to fly all Hawk jets from Brough to Warton at a rate of two per month. It is unsure whether the airfield will become fully operational though"
and a quote from an old Yorkshire Aviation News sums it up!
Quote:
The Last Laugh
.. was with Hawker Siddelev over the closure of Brough Airfield. They
have sold an H.S.125 to the Rio Tinto-Zinc Corp. but the Corporation will
not be able to fly to within 50 miles of their new £9M plan because the
600ft high chimney it incorporates is closing the local airport- Brough.
Unquote

[pug]

Origional plans for Brough, pre chimney, were an extended runway to 7300ft (at the same time as Leeds) and a new major airport to be built in thorne (though this was not thought to be needed until at least the mid 80's)

At the time i believe the services were doing ok, brough was quite busy with movements, this can be confirmed in the old Yorkshire Aviation News magazines from the time....

www.55hr.karoo.net/images (http://www.55hr.karoo.net/images) has some in pdf format

Notable is that the 'Hull(Brough)' service to the channel islands was autairs best performing route in june 1967!

Brough would have been a far better airport than HUY, close to the A63 and in an urban area, could have been a great alternative to LBA pre DSA!

I dont believe the flights were split as i am sure HUY didnt operate any airline operations until the 70's? Though i think the flights were moved to Leconfield for a short time until HUY opened. Why Leconfield wasnt developed i have no idea, the RAF allowed use by civillian companies by then (it had become a maintanence station)

[Yak97]

I have a 1970 time-table for the "Hull-London" flights, 4 times a day from Brough in an Islander!. Add another one to the London list - London Leavesden!! (Pity its closed).

[Leofric]

Good grief, that was a shock! I was editor of Yorkshire Air News in that period but didn't know my efforts had been immortalised on the internet!

[pug]

have a 1970 time-table for the "Hull-London" flights, 4 times a day from Brough in an Islander!. Add another one to the London list - London Leavesden!! (Pity its closed).

Also operated from Leconfield in the early 70's.

If you go on the airbritain photo site and search leconfield as a location it will bring a pic up of this service in 1971.

I believe a number of flights by air anglia were set up from Leconfield to LHR and Jersey later in the 70's? Though it is hard to find the timetables online...

[airhumberside]

Just been reading the MAG 2006-07 annual report (financial year up 31st March 2007). HUY remains profitable with a 0.6 million profit, though down 14.3% on 2005/06. No doubt it will further decrease next year but it certainly supports HUY's current strategy, including not going after a LoCo which probably would be after a good package which could turn a profit into a loss (as nice as a LoCo would be)

[pug]

As has happened at NWI...

The airport has to be sure that the routes will be sustainable for future profits and they would need high pax levels to gain revenue from elsewhere.

I am in no doubt more services will be added in time, links to London are being sought after, but HUY just isnt suited for significant lowcost operations and wont be for the forseeable future....

Best thing to do, play to their strengths and grow the charter side, more winter flights etc...

[airhumberside]

Is HUY open today? Airport website shows Icelandair Cargo - is that a mistake or not?

[maverick.86]

defo mistake, huy closed 25th, limited flying 26th

[airhumberside]

Thanks. Boxing Day should have seen 1 KLM and MYT/TCX positioning in from NCL

[airhumberside]

A review of the current situation regarding this summers charter flights some of which I have already posted

First the reductions

Palma flights will reduce from 5 to 3 a week. Thomson have axed their Sunday flight (operated by ThomsonFly), while on Saturdays there will be just one instead of two flights. Wasn’t that long ago there was 7 flights a week to Palma
Thomson have axed their Ibiza flight (operated by Air Europa)
Airtours and Thomson have axed their Alicante flight (operated by MyTravel)

And the additions (which although on sale have not been officially announced)

Goldtrail will add an Antalya flight operated by Onur Air from July. This is addition to the existing Airtours/Thomas Cook flight operated by Sun Express
Scottravel will add a new Dalaman flight operated by Freebird. Both tour operator and airline are new to Humberside. This means we have 8 weekly Turkey flights next summer, with 5 to Dalaman

In total a net loss of 2 weekly flights

Also Goldtrail Holidays Bodrum and Dalaman flights will operated all season as opposed to starting in July as happened this year. And there is doubt if the Heraklion flight will operate past mid July. This flight had good average loads this past summer

In other news, Libra Holidays have left Humberside as part of a restructuring while Airtours and Thomas Cook are taking seats on each others flights that they didn’t previously share on

[OliWW]

First comment on pprune Airline and Airports and Routes forum for 2008...


i think that boxing day should be normal flights, christmas eve is, people are traveling back home so for low cost airlines is profit to be had...

[airhumberside]

Looks like Libra Holidays will still offer Larnaca next summer

[airhumberside]

Some further news

We have two Crete flights this year. Airtours/Thomas Cook will add a new Friday flight while Olympic will take the entire allocation of the existing Tuesday flight. Both flights will be operated by Eurocypria
The Wednesday XLA Larnaca flight is moved to Saturdays operated by Eurocypria. Tour operators are Airtours, First Choice, Libra and Thomas Cook
The Scottravel Dalaman flight appears to no longer be on sale
First Choice have downgraded Faro to a A320 from B757-200, while ThomsonFly have downgraded their remaining Palma flight from a B757 to B737-300. Big drop to Palma from 5 to 3 flights a week, plus this capacity reduction. First Chice will use a A321 instead of a Futura B737 on the Tuesday flight however

Still a net loss of 2 weekly flights and no B757’s expected to visit

[airhumberside]

Thomson/First Choice have pulled their Dalaman flight, due to be operated by Pegasus

[airhumberside]

A January performance update.

Passengers down 3.2%, largely due to no Gran Canaria and one less Tenerife

The core scheduled fligts are doing great, ABZ up 7% and AMS up 14%. Winter Sun doing fine too. ALC is down 19% due to a smaller aircraft, but an average of 185 passengers per flight on a B737-800 isnt bad. The routes operated by Thomas Cook have certainly filled the extra capacity they are offering. Lanzarote is up 29% with average 229 passengers per flight and Tenerife has an average of 231 passengers per flight

However the ski flights performance were nothing better than dire. New routes Innsbruck carried an average of 36 passengers per flight, while Plovdiv, shared with EDI, carried just 35 HUY passengers per flight

[chrism20]

An AVERAGE of 185 on a 738 from any airport has to be admired, that is good going

[airhumberside]

February CAA figures

22540 passengers for the month, down 3.7% on last February
464212 passengers for the roling year, down 9.8%

Scheduled route performance:
Aberdeen, up again by 7% at 2751
Amsterdam, up by 6% at 10385

Ski charter performance:
Innsbruck - 485 - average 60 passengers per flight so big improvement on January (average 36) and not bad for a Fokker 70
Plovdiv - 352 - down 47% - average of 44 HUY passengers per flight

Winter Sun charter performance:
Alicante - 1454 - down 21% - average 181 passengers per flight so load factor wise no concerns (a B737-800 is used)
Lanzarote - 1833 - up 36% - average 229 passengers per flght. That B757 upgrade is doing well
Tenerife - 2317 - and despite going from twice to once weekly only 14% down - average off 231 passengers per flight

With the exception of Plovdiv, very good figures. The decreases are down to less capacity on winter sun charter. But we are filling what capacity we do have. Obviously dont know yields but plenty to be positive about here

In other news, Hangar 9, the aircraft maintenance facility has been taken over by Roissy International, a Bury St Edmunds based aircraft maintenance company.

The company is advertising for Fokker 100 engineers, with B737 and A320 experience also useful. So far the main sign of the new owners has been visits by two Eagle Aviation B757 aircraft currently operating for Saudi Arabian Airlines

[airhumberside]

Looks like some savage cuts from Thomson for Summer 2009. What's left is TFS, LPA, LCA (new for Thomson) and 2xPMI. No Faro, Menorca, Lanzarote or Fuerteventura. These were shared with Airtours/Thomas Cook so hopefully they will pick up the slack, though Im not so sure with Faro since it was FCA operated and AFAIK there are no based charter aircraft in Faro anymore

[airhumberside]

Summer 2009 now on Airtours website. Playing about with the booking engine reveals a disaster for HUY. MAH, ACE and FAO are gone, along with Ibiza. They will keep FUE going but have axed Heraklion, Antalya, Tenerife and one of their two Dalaman flights during the Scottish School Holidays

[pug]

Been posted on another forum, current MD Rob Goldsmith is leaving his post for Bournemouth. Current position to be taken up by Tony Lavan? Any views?

[niknak]

As far as I can ascertain, Mr Lavan was General Manager of Ringway Handling, a subsidary of the MAN PLC Group, I can't see what advantage he'll bring to HUY.
As for Mr Goldsmith going to Bournmouth, I know that they're part of the MAN Group, but what have Bournmouth done to deserve someone who has presided over HUYs lack of success over the last few years?:rolleyes:

[pug]

General inside rumours suggest BOH is doing too well and needs a tax break. Good luck down there!

Seriously though I dont think MAG will invest anything untill the declining profit turns into a loss, then perhaps off load it.

[danieloakworth]

Why then are they investing in a Cat III ILS for Bournemouth, 2 for Mcr and a Controlled Airspace application for Humberside. I know Rob, he's a good bloke who is well regarded by MAG.

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

He was only put into HUY to drum up some business. What has he acheived?
No new schedule flights, charter flights declining and most fish flights now going to EMA. Now that DSA is up and running, maybe MAN have lost all interest in HUY.

[cuban missile]

:=And what make`s you think MAN was ever interested in HUY:ugh:

[STATSMAN]

MAG closed down Ringway Handling!!!

[airhumberside]

He was only put into HUY to drum up some business. What has he acheived?
No new schedule flights, charter flights declining and most fish flights now going to EMA
Ive noticed no decrease in the number of Icelandair flights into HUY

[cuban missile]

:hmm:there`s only one fish flight a week, and that`s on a sunday:ugh:

[harrogate]

Whoever negotiated a fish flight in to Grimsby deserves a medal.

Maybe we should send something on the return flight to Iceland. Maybe ice?

[airhumberside]

there`s only one fish flight a week, and that`s on a sunday
Yes, I've just looked on the ICE timetable and seen that. When did this start hapenning from? I assume the midweek flights are going to EMA because there is other cargo as well? Is this just a short term thing or not? I guess the fish factories in Grimsby (who dont have enough UK fish any more) cant be too happy at this since HUY is ideally located for them

And could this threaten plans for the perishables hub?

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

Only been the one flight for about the pass 3 weeks or so.All others now go to EMA. It is doubtful how long this one flight will last before it also goes elsewhere. Cannot see the perishable good hanger now being built.

[mmeteesside]

Weekdays ICE Cargo goes to EMA as it then flies for DHL to LEJ and from there to BRU before it goes back onto ICE Cargo to get back to KEF.

[pug]

Why then are they investing in a Cat III ILS for Bournemouth, 2 for Mcr and a Controlled Airspace application for Humberside. I know Rob, he's a good bloke who is well regarded by MAG.


Nothing against the man himself, just the fact HUY has gone right downhill.

If MAG shut ringway handling does make you wonder if theyre sending the former MD to HUY to run it down properly, why MAG Plc need HUY now is anyones guess and someone should be offered the opportunity to come in and try make a go of it.

As for less cargo flights, another nail in the coffin. How long before KLM go and Eastern get a better offer at DSA (cause the market is saturated) Such a shame the major tour operator keen on the regions has a major base at DSA and needs to pull back to the bases to ride out a potential storm next year.

Could 2010 mean the end for HUY as an airport and more as a GA facility till someone wants to build an 'eco town'?

[airhumberside]

long before KLM go and Eastern get a better offer at DSA (cause the market is saturated)
T3 wont go. They've invested far too much to do that (at least as long as they remain independent)

[pug]

Well if rumours have substance and T3 are taken over by BE we can bet HUY would be the first destination to go, they wouldnt require the base
here.

[cuban missile]

:confused:what`s T3:ugh:

[Hotel Uniform Yankee]

T3 is Eastern Airways

[cuban missile]

:confused:realistically were can you see HUY in the next year or two:ugh:

[Richard Taylor]

Careful Cuban, you'll give yourself a headache! :hmm:

[airhumberside]

realistically were can you see HUY in the next year or two
Personally KLM, T3, about 12-13 charters a week in summer 4-6 in winter

[pug]

realistically were can you see HUY in the next year or two

The way things are going, general decline year on year. The only saving grace would be KLM...

[dbertman]

I know KLM recently introduced another daily flight from HUY to AMS but what have the load factors been like? I really don't see how HUY can support 4 flights a day with KLM.

[airhumberside]

The percentage increases in loads have been very small since the 4th flight was introduced (it doesnt run all year). But KLM have kept it probably about 75% of the year for a couple of years now so it must be performing well enough for KLM not to reduce to an all year round 3xDaily

[pug]

I know KLM recently introduced another daily flight from HUY to AMS but what have the load factors been like? I really don't see how HUY can support 4 flights a day with KLM.


The load factors for the route are conststantly high. have been for years. HUY supports these flights due to the business in the region. Something DSA cant provide. Yields are a big factor.. And over 10,000 pax per month.

[maverick.86]

just been announced that the MAG group intend to sell Humberside airport

[maverick.86]

just been reported.

[ACCMan]

BBC News report:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/humber/7367258.stm

[niknak]

The book is open on who the top five buyers might be:

1) The limstone mining and processing company across the road (there's a huge demand for limestone in the steel processing industry worldwide, and HUY sits bang on top of millions of tons of the stuff).

2) A consortium of local businessmen with no clear idea of what to do with it, other than blather their Little England ideas to the press.

3) Any automotive manufacturer and/or testing organisation.

4) Centerparcs.

5) Lord Yarborough (or is he an Earl?), very wealthy local landowner, owns most of Lincolnshire and Humberside, always has been a staunch opponent of the airport and would return it to agricultural use tomorrow.

[idlejack]

Humberside Airport to be sold off


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44600000/jpg/_44600646_humberside_airport226.jpg The airport was bought for £10m nine years ago



The owner of Humberside Airport has announced it is planning to sell its stake in the business.
Manchester Airports Group (MAG) said it wanted to sell its 82.7% share to focus on its larger airports - Manchester, East Midlands and Bournemouth.
The news surprised North Lincolnshire Council which owns the remaining 17.3% of Humberside Airport.
Council chief executive Simon Driver said the local authority "now needed to consider its position".
A spokeswoman for MAG admitted that its decision had left an uncertain future for the 730 people who are employed by a variety of companies based at Humberside Airport.
"It is a great airport, it returns a profit but we feel it needs somebody else to take it forward as we concentrate on our core business at our other airports," she said.
"We have grown the business since taking over in 1999 and we would hope that would be the case under new ownership.
"However, it is difficult to say how someone else is going to run the business."
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/o.gifhttp://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/start_quote_rb.gif In light of the news from Manchester Airports Group, the council now needs to consider its position http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/img/v3/end_quote_rb.gif


Simon Driver, North Lincolnshire Council chief executive



MAG chief executive Geoff Muirhead said: "Humberside Airport is a solid business but the attention needed to maximise its full potential may not fit easily with the group's emerging strategy.
"The Humberside Airport team has done a fantastic job retaining and attracting airlines and maintaining stable passenger numbers, particularly during the last few years when competition has increased significantly."
Mr Driver said: "North Lincolnshire Council welcomes the long-term relationship with Manchester Airports Group and recognises that now is the time to look to the future.
"We will build on the success of the airport for the benefit of North Lincolnshire and the wider region.
"The airport has real potential and the council, as a shareholder, will look to maximise the development of the airport in the future.
"The council has maintained its shareholding in the airport since 1996.
"In light of the news from Manchester Airports Group, the council now needs to consider its position. It is inappropriate to comment further at this stage."
Since buying its majority stake in Humberside Airport in 1999 for £10m, MAG has invested nearly £7m to improve and develop the airport's infrastructure. Routes currently served from Humberside include Air France/KLM's worldwide hub at Amsterdam, many popular holiday destinations, including the Canaries, Lapland and the Channel Islands, and domestic services to Scotland. Government forecasts indicate that Humberside Airport is expected to handle about one million passengers every year by 2016.

[Dysonsphere]

good building land bye any chance

[Jox]

Quick, let's cover this thread up before someone at the BAA decides that they want it.

The potential for legislation to order them to sell some of their airport assets may be making some rather uncomfortable, even if it's still a way off.

Humberside is reported as making a profit, anybody seen any commentary about baggage issues, terminals that cannot cope, high landing charges, traffic congestion or grim queues at security. Nope, didn't think so !

Let's hope that someone (other than the BAA) step up to the plate and invest to allow an airport that has started to build slowly and successfully to continue to do so for the benefit of those who it serves.

Good luck to them. :ok:

[WorkingHard]

Dysonshere it is in the middle of nowhere (as it should be) and is no good to build house. Has had enormous pretension to greatness ever since it changed the name from Humberside to Humberside INTERNATIONAL. Thats not to say the lads and lasses on atc etc dont do a good job because they are absolutely spot on. It was far better as RAF Kirmington!

[pug]

1) The limstone mining and processing company across the road (there's a huge demand for limestone in the steel processing industry worldwide, and HUY sits bang on top of millions of tons of the stuff).

2) A consortium of local businessmen with no clear idea of what to do with it, other than blather their Little England ideas to the press.

3) Any automotive manufacturer and/or testing organisation.

4) Centerparcs.

5) Lord Yarborough (or is he an Earl?), very wealthy local landowner, owns most of Lincolnshire and Humberside, always has been a staunch opponent of the airport and would return it to agricultural use tomorrow.

I think if MAG do sell, it would be in the councils best interests to keep it as it is. I would realy like to wait and see who intends to buy before making statements like the above!

[pug]

MAG say they are not bound to sell and will only do so to the best interests of the airport. Hmmm...

I hope they keep to that, North Lincs council still own a share afterall and they wont want it as a quarry.

Though some charters have been lost the overall utilisation of the site is keeping it afloat along with the strong klm service. I dont see why a better suited operator of smaller airports, say omniport and the like, cannot make a real good go of it.

[turbroprop]

The secret of Humberside or any small regional airport is no hasel, queues etc. Check in at HUY and fly to anywhere via Schiphol. Might be one reason HUY - AMS works. Or select one of the charters for a holiday and miss the stress at MAN LGW etc. It will be a shame if the airport is not sold as a going concern as I would miss the facility. Was it not brought by MAG to stiffel its development so that the people in the catchment would drive along the M62 to MAN.

[loadcontrol2majortom]

MAG to review its stake in Humberside Airport


MAG to review its stake in Humberside Airport
We have today announced that we are examining our majority shareholding in Humberside Airport.
Humberside Airport is a solid business and we recognise the fantastic job the team at Humberside have done in retaining and attracting airlines and maintaining stable passenger numbers, particularly during the last few years when competition has increased significantly. However, the attention needed to maximise the full potential of Humberside may not fit easily with the Group’s emerging strategy.
Therefore, it is sensible in order to secure the best possible long-term future for colleagues, partners and airlines at Humberside Airport that all options including a possible transfer of ownership are considered.
MAG is well aware of the uncertainty this situation creates for people at Humberside Airport and we are committed to fully consulting and engaging with colleagues and the Trades Unions during this review process.
Colleagues at Humberside who are working this afternoon have already received face-to-face briefings and those not present will receive a written communication tomorrow. Further face-to-face briefings will be offered next week. We are establishing a formal consultation process across the site which includes a colleague forum. This will be established over the coming weeks and will be one of the key elements for communication across the site.


This is taken from the MAG website dated today 25/04/08

[pug]

Am i right in thinking HUY is still in profit? Would that not have a swing on things to a good smaller operator? A going concern?

[Readability 5]

Was it not brought by MAG to stiffel its development so that the people in the catchment would drive along the M62 to MAN.

Not so. HUY came as part of the package MAG bought from National Express which also contained EMA and BOH. Ironically, it is more likely to be EMA that is hoovering up pax from HUY, than MAN.

R5

[pug]

HUY came as part of the package MAG bought from National Express

HUY was bought in 1999 from the four unitary authorities that were once Humberside county. North Lincolnshire keep a minority share however. They came to aquire EMA from National Express (which apparantly came with BOH for free) some time later.

It is thought to have been political reasons, initialy to fight for the second runway approval and then to fight the Peel plans for DSA (which is turning out to be less popular than origionaly believed)

[Readability 5]

I stand corrected.

Thanks.:O

R5

[niknak]

MAG didn't buy HUY at the same time as Bournmouth and EMA, they bought it as a sop to MR Prescott and his buddies and in return got the go ahead for runway 2 at MAN.

HUY may make an operating profit, but as a stand alone company within MAG it still has substantial debts, which no doubt MAG will see to as part of the sale package.

I can't see the BAA being remotely interested, the airport may have a nice long runway and good technical facilities, but the terminal is a tip and couldn't cope with many extra passengers without expansion.
As for passengers, yes, the figures are OK but will not grow significantly to warrant significant investment by anyone.
HUY has been badly affected by the development of Donny/Robin Hood and that will no doubt continue as Donny expands and goes for HUY's jugular.
No wonder key staff are job hunting elsewhere.

It's a crap time to be selling anything, never mind an airport and I can see MAG unloading it at a bargain basement price, to any of the following:

1) Eastern Airways - not as daft as it sounds, Mr Lake knows his stuff, is personally wealthy enough to buy it and could do as well or better than most of the plonkers who've run it before.

2) The quarry company across the road - they're an international lime/chalk exporter and HUY is sitting on the limestone/chalk equivilant of a goldmine.

3) Another airport operator - possibly, but they'd have to do it from their own assets, borrowing would cripple them for the small return they'd get.

4) Back to the Council - the most unlikely option, but such a daft idea they might just think of it for themselves.

[loadcontrol2majortom]

HUY sounds very similar to BOH even down to the crappy facilities and quarry accross the road.

The current director of BOH is retiring and being replaced by none other than the current director of geuss who????

You guessed it HUY!!!!!!!

Hopefully BOH won't come to a similar end.

[niknak]

Pug.

Items 1, 3 and 4 are realistic.

The other two were flippant irony, hope that clears up the terrible confusion I caused....:rolleyes:

[Richard Taylor]

I dunno Niknak, 2 & 5 look good bets as well...:}

[BYALPHAINDIA]

Peel Airports, Eastern Airways, Or Even Jet 2??:confused:

[danieloakworth]

Infratil or TBI decent bets. Why would Peel buy, they own RHADS and need to spend money on DTV.

[niknak]

TBI? too busy propping up Luton, Belfast and various others.

Infratil? too busy trying to survive and service the money they owe to their investors to invest in another airport of dubious commercial viability...

[cuban missile]

:sad:BAA will have HUY as part exchange for Gatwick:=

[Helen49]

HUY was developing well traffic wise pre-MAN. Unfortunately the capital required for necessary infrastructure developments/improvements was not available from the four council owners. Hence the sale. Passenger numbers immediatley pre-sale to MAN exceeded 450k per annum, so MAN hasn't done a great deal traffic wise. MAN has financed some necessary infrastructure needs. Has probably reached its realistic zenith with DSA just down the road.

Bought for political reasons by MAN.

H49

[zfw]

And the new incumbetant of HUY is Mr Tony Lavan...............who has presided over the demise of MANs in house baggage company Ringway Handling.............losing 330 jobs.

Nothing like promoting someone who has made a hash of things..........incidently the rest of the Ringway Management team have all found themselves cosy not-applied-for jobs at MAN.

Good luck.