Quick question

[Married a Canadian]

Gave a DC9 a routing to a fix on the airway today and they said they couldn't as they were "slant whisky".

Just wondering what that means?

[av8boy]

The aircraft is equipped for RVSM operations but is not capablle of advanced long-range navigation. IOW, it can't go direct to a fix on the airway.

FAA Flight Plan Aircraft Suffixes
Effective September 1, 2005

Suffix
Equipment Capability

NO DME
/X
No transponder
/T
Transponder with no Mode C
/U
Transponder with Mode C

DME
/D
No transponder
/B
Transponder with no Mode C
/A
Transponder with Mode C

TACAN ONLY
/M
No transponder
/N
Transponder with no Mode C
/P
Transponder with Mode C

AREA NAVIGATION (RNAV)
/Y
LORAN, VOR/DME, or INS with no transponder
/C
LORAN, VOR/DME, or INS, transponder with no Mode C
/I
LORAN, VOR/DME, or INS, transponder with Mode C

ADVANCED RNAV WITH TRANSPONDER AND MODE C (If an aircraft is unable to operate with a transponder and/or Mode C, it will revert to the appropriate code listed above under Area Navigation.)
/E
Flight Management System (FMS) with DME/DME and IRU position updating
/F
Flight Management System (FMS) with DME/DME position updating/G
Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS), including GPS or WAAS, with enroute and terminal capability.
/R
Required Navigational Performance. The aircraft meets the RNP type prescribed for the route segment(s), route(s) and/or area concerned.


Reduced Vertical Separation Minimum (RVSM). Prior to conducting RVSM operations within the U.S., the operator must obtain authorization from the FAA or from the responsible authority, as appropriate.
/J
/E with RVSM
/K
/F with RVSM
/L
/G with RVSM
/Q
/R with RVSM
/W
RVSM



Dave

[LastCall]

I suspect he was referring to the letter code on an ICAO filed flight plan that denotes the Nav/Com capability of the airplane, and I suspect that he got the code (W) wrong. On an ICAO flight plan, the “W” code denotes RVSM capability, which the run-of-the-mill DC-9 does not have. When filing an ICAO flight plan, in the NAV capability box, the letter D denotes DME able, F denotes ADF able, and O denotes VOR capable. I think that’s what he was trying to tell you.

All the DC-9s that I ever flew were “Iron Dials” airplanes, which means that the only nav capability they have was strictly VOR & ADF with VHF comm. To get to the fix successfully the guy would have to actually fly the airway via the radial that defines the airway to the DME point or intersection that defines the fix. Getting there successfully on his own by going there direct would be by B.S. luck.

Magic airplanes define fixes by LAT/LONG coordinates which are data-base stored, so it’s easy for them to go direct to any point that is stored in a data base.

Hope this helps.

L.C.

Sorry folks. Don't do much domestic flying these days & forgot that RVSM is now standard in Europe & North America. Whatever DC-9s are still flying would most certainly be RVSM capable, which doesn't change the NAV capability of the airplane.

It was a great pilot's airplane & I loved flying it.

L.C.

[Rainboe]

That's a very peculiar way of expressing 'I'm not INS equipped and I haven't got my airways chart open and couldn't be bothered to 'fake it'!' Most pilots I knew before being equipped with INS were perfectly happy to accept a 'direct' clearance and try and hash it. Very odd terminology.

[Max Angle]

Most older aircraft are equipped with an old and surprisingly accurate system called TLAR so it should not have been a problem.

(That Looks About Right)

[jondc9]

hi

I think the slant whiskey business boils down to this...prior to RVSM flying, slant whiskey was an equipment suffix for type of transponder, DME, and or other navigation equipment...I tried looking it up in the recent AIM only to find new designations and meanings ascribed to slant whiskey

so it was an old guy used to saying (we can't go direct, no RNAV) in his shorthand which was perfectly right...about 6 years ago.

[The Trappist]

'Canadian'; more than likely that just means:
No imagination: no gumption: no ruler: no pencil: no protractor.
Basically: couldn't be bothered!

[Rainboe]

Many was the time crossing the Gulf area from one end to the other one would be hustling for 'directs'. The response to 'Can you accept direct to xxx?' was always 'sure thing!' If you couldn't pick it up then, you knew you would soon, so just use your intuition and fake it. But there are so many navaids in the States maybe he just didn't have a clue where it was. But a very queer way to put it!

[jondc9]

nothing "queer" about it. the guy was using an old designation for a plane with DME, encoding altimeter and NO rnav or other REAL way of going direct anywhere except direct to an NDB or VOR station (or tracking on a localizer)


while one can "fake" a heading to go direct somewhere, this guy was doing the right thing (except for the changes to designations which I mentioned).

He could have said: unable direct, no RNAV ...requrest VECTORS to XXXXX intersection.


oh well

jon

[Capt Claret]

In this modern era of accurate gps navigation, coupled with radar tracking and the litigious nature of some jurisdictions, is it any wonder he chose not to "just fake it"! :eek:

[flufdriver]

:rolleyes: The Trappist:

Not many jet aircraft are flown by "dead reckoning" these days!

fluf

[jondc9]

when someone blows there whole electrical system while crossing the atlantic, a whiskey compass and a wristwatch will come in might handy!

[banana head]

when someone blows there whole electrical system while crossing the atlantic, a whiskey compass and a wristwatch will come in might handy!
In my youth I once ferried a C172 eastwards across the atlantic, loosing the altenator around 150 miles before landfall in Northern Scotland! :\
The 'whiskey compass and wristwatch' might have been handy while still in the air, but I can assure you Jondc9 that numerous & generous glasses of real whiskey compliments of HM RAF (and without any compass or wristwatch!) were gratefully received on landing!! :ok:
Have never been back to SYY since mind, maybe my mess bill is still waiting for me :E