UKIA

[EastMids]

Frankly, it matters not a jot how many travel agencies they have alledgedly signed up - they still haven't published a schedule.

UKIA's flight schedule has been on the airline's website for a while now. The fact that they are not distributed on any of the GDSs doesn't necessarily matter if they've got some direct sales agents and a mechanism for taking bookings from them.

A

[future_pilot17]

Website isn't working? I'm getting...

"Provider error '80004005'
Unspecified error
/Default.asp, line 9 "

Regards,
Tom

[SAM-EMA]

Thanks very much.

SAM-EMA

[Mike16]

Hi

I have rang EMA today to find the latest on UKIA and they have said and i quote, they have never heard of them and they definalty have no handling agaent for them at EMA.
I am sorry guys, but this sounds well dodgy, flight starting in a few days now and yet no one at the airport where they are based knows of them ?

They do not have an office at EMA as the lady at EMA did tell me this, what are your thoughts on this everyone ?

Mike

[SAM-EMA]

Well I thought it was quite strange that the EMA website hadn't got any on there about them yet, but this just makes it sound even more strange.

SAM-EMA

[owenkirk2005]

They have a office in the maintainence area next to donnair flying school offices it has the airlines name on the front, we will see if its true on friday!

The Shrajah Airport website has UK International Airlines in there timetable.

[caaardiff]

They are flying. I've heard of a number of charters they've done for other airlines already

[Mike16]

Hi owen

I have just done a check on the airport website and there is nothing for UKIA at all, not in the news section or evenon there search engine ???

I asked the lady at EMA if they had an office at eMA and they said no,i am sorry to be suspicous here but after Now, fly who blu what ever they were called, i dont thin kthis is a set up at all.

No advertising, no media press coverage, nothing at all ?

Mike

[paul atkins]

hey mike penny coates signed a contact with the airline last march and these people who have never heard of the airline at the airport must be blind the aircraft sat on the groung for long periods during the summer right next to the staff carpark

[Mike16]

Hi Paul

I know it has been there, i have seen this myself, and i also live in Castle donington, but does this really mean anything ?
I know that sounds silly, but going back to my recent postings, What are your thoughts ?

come on a new Ailrine starting on Friday, and EMA knows nothing of them, no advertising no nothing ...


Mike

[caaardiff]

EMA must know of them, its a bright pink/purple aircraft!
They have been in the air, i've heard them calling up Servisair in EMA who are apparently handling them, or handling the airline they may have done a charter for.
If this is a member of staff at EMA, it could be someone knew, or who really doesnt take any interest in the goings on at EMA.

Be a bit silly to buy an aircraft, paint it, fly it a few times and then intentionally not do anything more with it.

Do they have all they need to start officially flying their advertised routes?

[paul atkins]

hey mike i know it has been short period of time for booking these flights and has owen says sharjah now has these flight on its timetable so at least they are expecting the first flight so fingers crossed hopefully the first flight will leave in just over 48hours cheers paul

[owenkirk2005]

type sharjah airport in google and click 1st link and then its under flight information - departures by airline. nothing on EMA website tho, like i said we will know on friday.

[Mike16]

Hi

Well i have rang EMA again and spoke to marketing dept who were extremely helpful, they have said, they are operating and there first flight does leave on Fri.
It has only beeen officially released today to EMA as hey had to wait for there lcences to go through etc, and now that has been done they wll now be marketing now.
So i do take thhings back, but one has to be careful now....
They also did say that this was mainly aimed at the asian market for there pilgrimages ? have i spelt that right ? lol

I also asked about any new services, they cannot say for reasons, but i said it would be nice to have a US service like new york or washington and she smiled and laughed and said keep watching this space, so hopefully soon we may have links to the US very soon, fingers crossed

Take care guys

Mike

[captainyonder]

She smiled and laughed....I need to get myself one of your phones where you can see them smiling!!

But seriously, if they're launching on Friday and the marketing only begins today they can't have much planning behind them on the marketing side? I'm sure the operational side is fine, the CAA wouldn't allow them to fly otherwise, but you can't make money just by holding an AOC and Route Licences.

[mikerawsonderby]

EMA's MD might or might not have signed a contract 7 months ago, but surely the launch of these flights would be a photo-opportunity too good to miss. I therefore won't believe these flights are happening until I see a press release with a picture of Ms Coates in front of the 767 (but I hope I'm wrong).

[SAM-EMA]

There is.......on their website.

The photos of a press conference which the Penny Coates and Mr Khaliq.

SAM-EMA

[mikerawsonderby]

But given that there was such a fuss about British Airways' first flight from EMA (which it obviously wasn't) to Tenerife a year ago, you'd expect that something like the launch of flights to the UAE and Pakistan would merit a decent fanfare. A 7 month old press release on an obscure site is not that fanfare (the EMA website didn't even cover that press release, which is fairly monumentous compared with some of the crap that they feed to the press...'Man Pulls Aircraft with Ears'). It's not like the airport press office to miss such an opportunity.

Please feel free to say "I told you so" if and when the flight departs on Friday.

[mike21]

Their flights does not need huge marketing and publicity. Their flight is fully booked for the 19th. It is the travel agents who do their job and not the media or publicity. There are no freebies that day. They all are paid passengers. Well if the EMA staff do not know about them then someone is just being stupid at EMA. They have their office in building 33 since the last 6 months right next to the EMA's staff building, which is 34. So if someone at EMA says they dont know about them then :uhoh:.

[boredcounter]

'I would imagine that as a new start up handlers, airports, fuellers etc will be asking for deposits to be paid before operations can begin. You don't give new guys like this credit.'
There are many Worldwide companies you can lodge money with to sort this one out on thier credit rating, covers fuel all the way through to hotac and taxis.
Eastmids,
Would that be the second aircraft will operate the Hajj. Would make more sense, unless #1 has not had the 'product' interior refit yet, while #2 will have
Bored

[groundedforgood]

I really do hope that EMA staff will be made aware of what will happen when this operation starts. For each pax add on a dozen highly emotional relatives and friends to see them off. Same on return. Looks like fun in that pokey little arrivals area!

[boredcounter]

Yep,

Well said mate.

Then the staff toilets go for a foot wash................

All handling agents have lost out on that one.

Was at BHX when Turk and Uz and Emirates came, saw the airport management give in.

Whilst we live in a multi-cultural society, the rule should be, welcome to our world, as extended to........................................

Live and fly by our rules

[Mike16]

Hi

Well with regards to the phone that see's a smile, i know this will sound silly, but you kind of know when someone is nice and polite to you on a call, and this is what i mean't.....
When i rang EMA the first time to enquire about this airline, i got through to the information desk in the terminal building.
I also have to agree with what someone else has said here, when BA launched the TFS flights there was loads of fanfare, it was in the local press, Derby Notts and Leics, also i saw a few billboard posters in Derby city Centre and i also saw the launch on Central News.
Someone else also said they may not advertise as the work is done thru travel agents, well i hope it is, that is what they are paid to do, sell flights, but surely in this day and age, the more advertising the more revenue and public awareness you would get ?
If this airline does prove popular, it may be good for us Non - pilgrmage users to try the middle east, personally myself, i love the middle east but have always used the Eithad flight from Man, as this is ideal there, but a service like them from EMA is only good news, i just PERSONALLY find it very weird that a company like UKIA have a very poor website, looks homemade to be honest and with no media support, but hey what do i know....
Well take care guys and have a great day

Mike

[END BAG]

Hi Mike/all
Ihave just been asked at work today to go in at 16-00 hrs on friday to help load and see out the UKIA flight as we (Servisair) are handling it.It is showing on our operations screen as IH003 19-15HRS DEP TO SHARJAH.Iwill post on saturday and let you know how things went.If it is full it could be quite eventful as up to 2 days ago the rollers on the floor in the rear hold which move the luggage containers down the hold were not working.Should be great fun trying to manhandle full containers down the hold.Heres hoping the engineers can work some magic on them rollers!!!!!Will post saturday with report.
cheers

[owenkirk2005]

Press release on the airport website about the new flights to Pakistan, looks very positive now.

[SAM-EMA]

First UKIA flight left tonight, an hour late I might add, but at least it went. Some people doubted they would even get off the ground, but I'm really glad they have started now. It took off at around 20.22 local. I watched it from the Nags Head. I was in the check-in hall around 18.00, the security que was extremely long. There was still a few pax waiting to check-in at that time, and I saw some sort of tv camera there. But an ok start and I wish them all the best in the future. Well done UKIA!!!

SAM-EMA

[spanishflea]

160-170 odd pax on the first flight, not bad!

[GW76]

Given the time theyve had to publicise, the flight should really have been full. How many seats on the 762?

[First Bag]

Servisair screens show 154 + 1 to Sharjah and 16 + 1 going on to Islamambad

[ATNotts]

Curious load. I know that there are plenty of Indian (and possibly Pakistani) migrant working in the Gulf states, but that seems a heck of a lot terminating in Sharjah, and really a very poor load for ISB. Do they have traffic rights SHJ/ISB?

[Mr Angry from Purley]

ATNotts
Might have been a few free loaders on launch getting off in SHJ for the night. Who cares, UKIA up and running and good luck to them . When is the next flight! :\

[mike21]

correction please

only 6 pax for Sharjah and rest all were for Islamabad.

[First Bag]

I took the figures off the Servisair screens so they must of been wrong then !

[ATNotts]

Makes a lot more sense - most of the pax being destined to ISB.

[END BAG]

The next flight is showing on the operations screen on23/10/ 2007 as IH003 EMA-ISB/SHJ DEPARTING AT 19-15.There are no passenger figures showing on the ops sreen.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[paul atkins]

hey all i was told on friday that this tuesdays flight had sold 60% of all seats so with another 3 days of sales to go i would imagine figures similar to fridays

[paul atkins]

website now updated with news about last fridays flight

[owenkirk2005]

There is also a offer on for islamabad flights too. £399 return for bookings made by 13th november. Just had a look at PIA's fares from manchester and they are around £400-£550 return so obviously UKIA have had a look at the current market and seen sense to make there fares look very attractive. Well done UKIA.

[Centre cities]

Before anyone gets carried away with pax loads, the fares are lower than PIA, this will perhaps force their fares down and the yield.

Uzbec etc were flying good loads from BHX and LHR to India but with Air India and Jet the fares got so low to attract the passengers. The loads were maintained but the yield collapsed and the services were unprofitable ( or so I am told ).

I would imagine that there are introductory fare offers with UKIA, lets see what happens in the medium term before getting to excited.


Centre cities

[Nimrod6]

Lets not get too carried away, because rumour has it that today's flight is non-ops. Why is this?

[dumdumbrain]

And todays flights is showing: IH003Sharjah19:15Cancelled anyone know why?

[END BAG]

Hi all
The baggage handlers have been told that today,s flight is cancelled due to the runway at Islamabad closed for repairs.A bad time for that to happen to UKIA. Hopefully friday,s flight should be o.k.

[S78]

Runway closed at ISB? Maybe someone should have told PIA - Today's BHX-ISB flight is running as normal.....




S78

[The Real Slim Shady]

A0431/07 - MAIN RUNWAY 12/30 IS NOT AVBL DUE RE-CARPETING
WORK IN PROGRESS. DAILY BTN 1600-2359, 23 JUL 16:00 2007 UNTIL 22 JAN 23:59
2008. CREATED: 20 JUN 08:06 2007


Only non available from 16 - 2359.

Departing UK at 1915L (2315L in ISB) with about 7 hrs 30 to SJH gets in around 0645 (ISB time). Allow 1 hr on the ground for a 0745 (ISB time departure) and maybe 3 hrs max to ISB would have it landing at 1045 ish in ISB and out before the closure if they get the turn round at ISB sorted.

Hmmm.

[Yak97]

From ISB airport website (Presume they mean EMA not MEA) for tomorrow:

UKI-3 MEA-SHJ-ISB Sharjah Wednesday 11:45 Wednesday 11:45 Confirmed at Karachi

UKI-5 ISB-SHJ-MEA Sharjah Wednesday 13:00 Wednesday 13:00 Scheduled

So plenty of time to get in and out?

[spanishflea]

Nothing to do with ISB's runway, bit of a red herring there.

[lordsummerisle]

Closed due to re-carpeting??

[END BAG]

The UKIA is parked up in its normal place down the hangars having some maintenance done and at the moment Fridays flight is showing as operating to ISB/SHJ at 19-15.

[Readability 5]

MAIN RUNWAY 12/30 IS NOT AVBL DUE TO RE-CARPETING WORK IN PROGRESS. DAILY BTN 1600 - 2359.

No wonder its taking so long, have you ever tried to get a carpet fitter to work those hours!:}

R5

[owenkirk2005]

Is the Islamabad flight going ahead tommorow? any advanced passenger figures? The UKIA is reportedly back on the main apron, on tuesday it was down maintainence area which was proberly the reason it was cancelled.

[Centre cities]

Can any EMA locals report if they are operating any flights at the moment. Gone very Q


Centre cities

[END BAG]

Hi all
the load on last nights IH003 EMA-ISB/IHJ was an improvement on Tuesdays but still not fantastic. There were 69 pax split 66 to ISB and 3 to SHJ.Iam on duty today when IH006 returns so will post tomorrow with inbound pax figures.Last nights flight from islamabad arrived at 21-15 and had 42 pax inbound.

[Yak97]

I see the CAA have just published (Official Record 2) a list of flights from BHX for the Hajj, to be flown by Nouvelair Tunisia on a 5th Freedom Basis and looking for objections.

Wonder if UKIA will object, or do they have their own program?

[owenkirk2005]

Any pax figures for Tuesdays UKI003/005 and Tonights UKI003? Thanks

[Sole Trader]

Mmmmm..........lots gone quiet on this outfit. Does this mean that they are a resounding success now - or it's so dire that it's embarassing?
How ARE the pax loads doing?

[dontdoit]

Congratulations to UKIA. A brilliant time to launch flights to Pakistan. Not.

[Guest 112233]

:bored:Before anyone prematurely writes off a start up enterprise of any type, especially one that might initially seek to serve a limited market of any kind – please remember that the industry that was to become the global Airline business – really started with a government supported Air Mail service using surplus warplanes and Pilots – In business things can improve, even after a modest start. I wish UKIA well

[END BAG]

Hi all
Ironically,bearing in mind all the political problems in Pakistan ,last fridays/saturdays UKIA flight had its best pax figures since the first flight.On Friday outbound pax were just over 100(106 i believe) and on saturday evening the flight had 54 pax on its return.

[spanishflea]

54 on a 767 they must be hurting !!

For a startup in winter that is a damn good number, never mind the 100 odd in the other direction!

[BombardierCR7]

33 inbound EMA tonight, although there were around 175 that got off at Sharjah from Islamabad. Perhaps the latter sector is the one to take notice of. Yield unknown at present, but not a bad load for such a new starter.

[owenkirk2005]

What were the passenger figures on the Tuesday departure and Wednesday arrival? (20th/21st) thanks.

[ATNotts]

Do we really need to worry about pax numbers on a flight by flight basis?
Why not wait until the CAA monthly stats are published, and work out an average load factor?

[spook]

It's almost too late to worry about Pax figures. They had G-CECU repossessed early hours of this morning.

[dumdumbrain]

Bad day for EMA, and for those pax who paid for tickets?

Lee

[spanishflea]

Not sure where the repossession rumour has come from. G-CECU is just badly tech so out of action for a few days.

[paul atkins]

flight showing as operating tonight and they are still selling seats on later dates

[The Real Slim Shady]

G-CECU apparently has been recovered by the lessor and is subject now to a lien.

[transwede]

Is this all true as there seems to be no official release or announcement anywhere.

Hope it is not - never good to see a new airline fail!:(

[foxile]

Interesting one this.
EMA departures still (at 13.30) showing an 18.15 departure to Sharjah, perhaps over 30hrs after the apparent repo. Although, I guess, possibly a case of them attempting to seek further finance to pay the debt if thats the case.
Any info on your sources Slim/Spook?
Not heard even a whisper elsewhere...
Foxile

[spook]

....I imagine, i) The've paid up or, ii) they've come to some agreement with whomever applied for the repo.
If it's either then it's good news for everyone....Don't like seeing Airlines going down the pan!

[egnxema]

Lien? (Serious question)

[EastMids]

Lien? (Serious question)

Try google - type in definition lien (Serious answer!)

[owenkirk2005]

from the EMA website
IH003 Sharjah 18:15 Check-in Now Desk 26-27-28-29
Go to Departures
4 check-in desks open tonight another extra from the usual 3.
so not cancelled at the moment

[OliWW]

If G-CECU is away,,

what aircraft will be operating the flight now...

Plenty of aircraft must be lying about now because its winter...

[jurgenthegerman]

Tonights aircraft will be leaving at 7pm, I beleive its the first flight that is full !. I beleive that an agreement to some oustanding issues has been agreed, and things should return to normal !.

[ROSSKi MYT]

Does anyone know what the UKIA cabin interioir is like? Is it still those really outdated seats shown on their website?

[dumdumbrain]

When I finished after GRO-BGY, I asked one of the dispatchers, because the a/c was being taken to the main apron. He told me that UKIA came up with the money to tie it over. And stop it being take back.

Lee

[OliWW]

Been watching its progress at EMA

and its now Delayed until 22:00

every hour it changes

[dumdumbrain]

I got told its because of a crewing issue, but to be honest if I worked for them with an £1800 bond, with the last few days problems, I wouldn't even turn up to work and say ":mad: ya job".

But of a sad few days for EMA but I think UKIA is dead in the water. Real shame, about not having any long haul flights but a few charters.

Lee

[foxile]

EMA Website 20.55

IH003 Sharjah 18:15 Final Call Gate 3

[Going loco]

Definiton of Lien

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lien

[A300BOY]

So what happened did the flight operate ?

[Mike16]

Hi

I think it must have departed, but i have just looked at EMA arrivals and Dept board, as i have a friend to collect this afternoon of a flight, and the islamabad flight is coming in this evening and then on the Departure boards there is a flight to Sharjah this afternoon ???? so have they now got 2 planes or have they leased Concorde ???? lol

I know there were talk of 2 x aircraft earlier this year, so can anyone explain this or have they sub- chartered ?


Mike

[EastMids]

a/c went tech last night - operating this afternoon

[Mike16]

But it says on board there is one arrival tonight and one for departure this afternoon ?


Mike

[HZ123]

Should have stuck to selling furniture.

[EastMids]

Jeez, talk about people looking for conspiracies or complications!!! The a/c went tech last night and is therefore going to SHJ/ISB this afternoon - apparently 189 punters on the flight (with only 190 seats I guess that's close to a 99.5% load factor). No way will it get back by tonight - presumably they haven't filed a delay for the return yet so the airport system is still showing the normal arrival tonight as if last night's flight went on time.

The second a/c isn't going to be here until the new year - if, indeed, it comes at all after this week's shenanigans!

Should have stuck to selling furniture

At least they're having a good go at it now, and whilst I appreciate load factors aren't everything, if recent loads are anything to go by are starting to make it move in the right direction. Better to have tried and failed than be an arm-chair airline CEO IMHO

[groundedforgood]

Better to have tried and failed than be an arm-chair airline CEO IMHO
Tell that to the crew, pax and investors

[Captain Caveman]

Perhaps they proved to the CAA they have got 4000 2 and 3 seater sofa's that are worth the cash they need to demonstrate. LOL:}

[mancflyer]

hmmm that seems very strange "50% of the cabin crew leaving" as the crew i know are all very happy esp. the 8 day trips in the UAE & decent flight pay!
At the end of the day they are a new airline, no one gets it right from day one !

[transwede]

Lets give them a break, they are a new airline trying something different and once they get all their teething problems sorted have the potential to be a good niche carrier serving a market no other does at present. If the senior members of CC/FD are so unhappy then perhaps they should look elsewhere.

Are members of the management at UKIA from a certain other now non-operational UK airline which would give management experience in an airline set-up, not just a furniture company!

[owenkirk2005]

UKIA flights now bookable online and by phone, so things moving in the right direction.

[transwede]

Good luck to all at UKIA!;)

[firstchoice7e7]

Yes seats can now be booked online, the website announces on a moving display ''Passengers can now book thir sets online '' - i hope they mean seats. I did try to e-mail them on their feedback page of the website, but it doesnt work. Good luck! :ugh:

[Towerman]

The Lessor has been very accommodating and provided that the promised payments are honoured then the service will continue. Period.

[UPS@EMA]

Todays flight has been cancelled!!! any reason for this??????

Regards

Stu

[Readability 5]

Apparently, due to the low number of bookings for todays flight, those who wish to can travel on the next flight; whenever that is.

R5

[BYALPHAINDIA]

No, I don't agree with you on that, Flyjet had years to turn themselves around, But unfortunately went.

Wheras, UKIA has only just started operations, I think they need more time to try and make it work:D

I think most of flyjet's problems were created by themselves (management) by having the lack of interest in it's company.:ugh:

[Towerman]

UKIA are trying to add some charter flights over the Christmas period between their twice weekly rotations to Islamabad.

[OliWW]

Dont know why, they cant fill there B762 up as it is with the 2 flights a week let alone more over christmas,

Have they completely lost there minds adding more flights at this time

[Mr @ Spotty M]

I think "OliWW", that you might have missed the point.
I take it that they are trying to charter the aircraft out between rotations.
"Towerman" did not say they were trying to add charter flights to Islamabad.
From this weekend the charter season gets very busy again and any airline with a Tech aircraft or one late off check may well be in the market.

[Towerman]

Sunday's charter was cancelled; not sure about future plans?

Next flight is the scheduled Sharjah / Islamabad on Tuesday evening.

[Little Blue]

I think that if I worked for this lot, I'd be seriously looking elsewhere, very quickly !

[Yak97]

Any views on the effect on UKIA's operation ex EMA with the proposed start of services from LBA & LTN to ISB by Shaheen on the A310?

[richterscale10]

If Shareen can keep to their schedule then they should sweep the floor with this lot at EMA......what a shambles !!!

[Crusher1]

Dec 28th and Jan 4th flights showing as full on UKIA website!!!!!!!!!

[Centre cities]

Which could indicate they are full or non op.

Centre cities

[EastMids]

Well they're operating on Christmas day, so I'd be surprised if they cancel later in the week

[dumdumbrain]

Looks like UKIA may have turned around, saying that I bet being able to book on the net has helped. Which in my view you should of been able to do from the start.

Lee

[dumdumbrain]

Im sorry to hear that, I have hear stuff in the crew room about the managers and the lack of them paying staff. I'd get out while you can, if you have been working for airlines for several years, Id jump ship and go to the likes of BA. Or if you enjoy working like a bitch and do a million n one things on a dublin flight, come work with me.

I knew some crew from Ryanair who spoke to them when UKIA was looking for crew, but after speaking to them changed thier minds and stayed with Ryanair, well one went to Virgin, and the other to the new base VLC.

Lee

p.s. good luck to all the crew

[Towerman]

Well, just heard that there will be no flight Christmas day, or later this week or for the time being in fact. UKIA apparently needs time to sort itself out........

[stuart hammond]

website sch shows next dep 19 feb 2008 than 2 per week.

Is the aircraft to go on lease till 18 feb?

merry christmas

[Kazamb]

Just been informed that UKIA have indefinateley suspended operations, from EMA to ISB.

Reasons have not been given as of yet, suffice to say we are going to have hundreds of disgruntled customers a majority of them stranded in Pakistan.

[Ian Brooks]

Oh dear! looks not a very good Christmas for the airline industry

My best wishes to all who stand to lose their jobs over UKIA and Maxjet

Ian

[finding_nema]

Hopefully they will get themselves sorted, as there's a real market for a longhaul airline from EMA, particularly in connecting the Midlands' ethnic communities. Not sure they've had the best branding, aircraft or management for the job - but a good reorganisation and a few more routes to balance out a politically volatile Pakistani route might do well. Good luck to all the staff as well.

[Centre cities]

Yes there is a Midlands market but it demands a reliable service, it is well covered from BHX and MAN to ISB.

[Jeux sans frontieres]

UKIA's statement regarding the suspension of flying - does not appear to be a financial crisis. Looks like they want to put their house in order before they continue. Probably wise decision by management.

SUSPENSION OF FLIGHTS

UKIA regrets to announce the temporary suspension of its service to Sharjah and Islamabad due to operational issues. The company is keen to put in place a number of improvements which will provide our valued customers with an enhanced flying experience and we are unable to implement these in an efficient or effective way whilst adhering to the current flying schedule.

We are entirely confident that our customers will benefit greatly from the improvements that we intend to introduce and we anticipate relaunching our brand new, enhanced service in the New Year.
We apologise to our customers for any inconvenience caused and thank them for their patience and understanding.

UKIA MANAGEMENT

[richterscale10]

UKIA have been plagued by 'operational problems' since they began as Air Tigra several years ago - which never even got off the ground.
They have made their way through a myriad of really professional people who have worked hard to get things up and running, but the management teams have rolled through in droves.
The only things that have stayed the same is the fact that the airline is not in a fit state to operate (as just announced) and the head guy is still there.............
Maybe he should go back to the furniture business and let the people who know what they are doing just get on with the job.

[merlinxx]

For those that do not know, Shaheen Foundation is a charitable foundation of the Pakistani Air Force. Apologies for those that do know.

[Captivep]

At the risk of being branded a cynic it appears to me that the statement by the company is a meaningless collection of emollient words which would be likely to be used by a company not totally comfortable with explaining the real reasons for a service suspension...

Let me make it clear - I do not wish the company ill, nor do actually know what is happening there.

However, were someone from the company to approach me asking for investment you would not see me for the proverbial dust!

[eltonioni]

Do you mean that they have gone tits up?

[MAN777]

UKIA B767 parked up next to the old Bmi hangar at EMA, the only thing moving was the turbine blades in the wind !!

[finding_nema]

UKIA haven't gone tits up at all, but instead are totally re-organising their business model to better suit the markets that they serve, and the management team believe it's not possible to do this whilst also maintaining the current timetable. Good luck to everyone involved.

[Brian Fantana]

UKIA haven't gone tits up at all, but instead are totally re-organising their business model to better suit the markets that they serve, and the management team believe it's not possible to do this whilst also maintaining the current timetable

Im no aviation management expert but, what sort of NEW establishment starts up, not offering the needs to suit the market they serve???
Was there no research, or fore thought. Seems they started with a pot luck theory thats not worked out.

[Little Blue]

Well, the crew that I know who 'fly 'for them are all looking elsewhere, and who can really blame them?
The management have had long enough to formulate their business plan.
Ok, the re-launch might work, but the staff have to be worrying about their futures, this early into their employment. What a shame.

[finding_nema]

I don't work for them, but was offered a job and know a few people who have moved from established carriers to go and work there. In reality they have an excellent market to capture, yet they've gone about it with a poor brand, the wrong equipment and through a certain amount of mismanagement have lost a lot of credibility. Add to all of that the way some staff feel they've been treated, and it's all a rather sorry picture. Hopefully they can get their finances and operations sorted and really make a go of things.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

In the current climate I wouldn't fancy flying to Islamabad would you, I guess things could escalate and the Foreign Office may say dont go there. :\

[finding_nema]

Remember though that ISB is not the only destination which UKIA is interested in flying to; they wanted to very quickly expand into linking the East Midlands with longhaul business centres or the origins of the area's ethnic communities with 2 or 3 flights a week. Presumably this is being factored in as part of the restructuring.

[Captivep]

What's an "enhanced flying experience" got to do with a revamped business model? The only combination where that makes sense is if they are currently ripping out all economy seats to replace them with business class seats because that's what their market research has told them...

[Jeux sans frontieres]

Well it seems coincidental that half the management team has been suspended from duty at the same time that the crew are complaining they have been "mismanaged".... could there be a link here?

Perhaps if they get rid of the bunglers then the airline may find its feet again and return to flying punters to enitrely new destinations from EMA - they are trail blazing into a new market and they have plans to expand to other areas of the world.

Tragic though the assassination of Benazir Bhutto is, airlines are still going to continue flying to/from Pakistan, just like when there were bombs on the London underground, airlines didn't suddenly stop going to Heathrow.

There seem to be lots of good people there and I heard that they have also rejected some unsuitable applicants in the past, so they are not that desperate.

Let's see what happens in the next few weeks - could be very interesting. I bet fifty quid they are flying again by the end of January, any takers?

[Lite]

Surely the 767-200 is an unsuitable aircraft for the airline anyway? The aircraft are ex-United, so were designed for the UK domestic market rather than longhaul operations, meaning most destinations in Asia are going to necessitate a stop somewhere in the Middle East. Not sure about flights to the USA and Canada, which have been rumoured to be future destinations. Any idea if the 757 would have been better, especially given loads? Maybe even an A300?

[MHG]

I would also expect them looking for different a/c now (having in mind the problems that MAXJET had with the 762 - and that contributed to them going belly-up ...)

[Captain Caveman]

I really do not know how a new start up can suddenly just decide to revamp and leave a B762 on the ground with the associated lease / maint costs, crew costs (for those still on the books) and head office overhead with no income. I presume they are paying for the 2nd unit also at the mo which is in the hanger in the Middle East ?

For a couple of months I would put that at 250,000 - 500k at least ? All seems a little strange to me? or a hell of a lot of double discount sofa's they must be selling in Jan.............:}

[adamkhan]

I have an important question..Does anyone know how many flights were actually cancelled from the time they started to the time they decided to take a break?......Also does anyone know if there are any underwriters that are providing airline failure insurance for UKIA! honest im not joking you never know some DRAGON may want to invest any flights may start up again!. + any figures on load etc... ***Why is there nothing on any newspaper about this suspension and does anyone know if pottential pax got their money back and what about the poor people stranded i think these issues are very important for the affected:{*** Thanx everyone

[VS-LHRCSA]

I would say that the reason they haven't made the papers is due to the fact that they weren't the most visible airline in the first place.

Your average joe in the street won't know who they are. The market they were set up to serve barely does.

As it is now, I'm not sure this would be an operation that investors would be interested in. Asset-wise, they have two (is it?) reactivated desert airframes that were not designed for long-haul. They would have been sitting around for years waiting for a D check. Apart from Corsair, I can't think of any airline that has successfully reactivated an aircraft from long term storage - without reliability issues. I'm thinking of Air Atlanta here.

The aircraft interiors have not been touched and have an onboard configuration that has been twice superseded. With a refit, they could possibly be useful for charters but with only one pair of overwing exits and the necessary floor reinforcements, it would be doubtful that enough seats could be added to actually make money.

The actual concept and market is pretty sound and with the right kind of aircraft, has the potential to do well. I'm thinking of a high-ish density 767 or A330 here. I can't see too much premium traffic being generated. Perhaps they should look at what First Choice and Thomas Cook are doing.

[SAM-EMA]

This is what UKIA advice passengers (from their website):

Passengers claiming refunds are requested to fill the Refunds Form and submit it to the nearest UKIA Travel Agent or UKIA's Head Office.

SAM-EMA

[jurgenthegerman]

Adamkhan, lots of questions, if you want to know the answers why not contact them direct !:rolleyes: Their contact details are on their website.

[EastMids]

I'm not sure many folks really have a clue what they're talking about here. Sure the a/c has had MX issues, but nothing that has cancelled a flight - OK, one op was 24 hours late, but that could happen to any airline from time to time with the AOG spares needed a few hours away, and I believe part of that delay was down to crew hours in that by the time the a/c was servicable the crew could not operate. IIRC one round trip was cancelled when they had the financial issues a few weeks ago, and one op was cancelled due low loads the following week, but isn't that about all? The 762 UKIA have been using seems to be capable of managing EMA-SHJ-ISB quite well, and the relaxed schedule they've run so far has plenty of down time at EMA for defect rectification (which would have been more of a concern had the a/c been operating 24/7). At the prices they're charging, is interior refurbishment or the latest IFE really an issue? And, in terms of passenger numbers, things seem to have been on the up - some loads have been low but the launch came at fairly short notice, the cancelled Christmas day flight was booked full as was the return, and the next few flights had they been operated were full too. Where's the failed business model in all of that?

There are some specific reasons why UKIA are not operating at present, but they aren't related to the business model. Whether UKIA can resolve their issues and resume ops after a break of several weeks remains to be seen, but as long as they treat their staff fairly and are responding to a market demand (which increasingly seems to be the case) then I have no axe to grind with them.

[adamkhan]

woow...Eastmids just slow down take a deep breath, i have no axe to grind with them either..(just pointing out the facts) you sound like you are from UKIA!! maybe you are@ however I dont know of an airline that just suspends its services in the middle of peak season, cax a couple of tuesday flights as very low load and tells its customers to come back on friday, has no stopover on itinerary or eticket, no one knows how long they going to be stranded in Sharjah and some dont even know they going via sharjah- averge 8 hours and about 17hours till they reach islamabad, late departing late arriving most if not all flights, they might aswell go round western hemisphere. AS far as im concerened most of the comments on this forum are talking about operational issues and poor management i would say that is related to business model somewhat wouldnt YOU? The question now is not what they are going to do its what have they done...Lol no disrespect to anyone but I think this is a total disaster. I think it could be the end but hey what do i know. And by th e way EastMids most people on this forum do know what they talking about most is from research stats and facts.:cool:

[VS-LHRCSA]

Yeah, I have no axe to grind either. I've always hoped they would do well. My point is, the aircraft - as it is now - is not suitable for making money. It may be able to do the route, I didn't say it couldn't but frankly no airline should ever rely on a "relaxed schedule" to justify it's aircraft choice. An aircraft needs to fly to make money.

You said yourself, "at the prices they are charging..." which I'll agree, the fares are low. From a revenue management point of view, you simply cannot have a low density, thirsty aircraft AND low yields. It is purely unsustainable.

That said, I really do hope it works out for them.

[richterscale10]

Well - looks like they are not making enough money - even to pay their staff this December !!

[copper1]

My point of view is this, when you talk of management don't you mean the directors, these people have no experience of running and airline, they specialise in furniture. The people who they employed to run the airline, well respected within the airline industry, have not been listened to and have been suspended because they maintained the legal requirements and stuck up for their crew.

[Little Blue]

Well, I know of one crew member that's been paid !!! Now, what about the rest?!!! Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[richterscale10]

What - on time !!!!!!!?????

[EastMids]

Eastmids just slow down take a deep breath, i have no axe to grind with them either..(just pointing out the facts) you sound like you are from UKIA!!

OK, sorry! And no I'm not from UKIA. But the maintenance state of the aeroplane, the suitability of the aeroplane to operate the route, the interior of the aeroplane, the fares, the loads... People are looking for reasons why UKIA won't (didn't?) make it. My point is not that they have a perfect business model, but that these aren't the reason why the airline isn't operating right now.

[mike21]

UKIA has suspended its flights and then the Bhutto issue I think its best if UKIA gets their house in order before they re-start operations.
As some of the people they employed were sacked and booted out of their previous jobs (who would think they would be given Jobs again!:=). From my experience the market they wish to serve is huge and the service is good, they only need to re-structure their house and get moving.

Its good the Directors are not from Aviation background because they will run it like a Business and not be emotionally involved.

:DHey UKIA good luck, we all need jobs and support Airlines that are providing those jobs...... in this ever so hard industry.:ok:

I wish UKIA change the a/c as well now they have the time to do so!

[Fried_Chicken]

I wish UKIA change the a/c as well now they have the time to do so!

The problem is, what else can they get at relatively short notice to replace the B762's with?

A lot of the A300/A310's are being bought for conversion to freighters so probably few decent (pax) airframes on the market for sale/lease
There aren't too many used A330's on the market & the cost of buying new is probably out of the question.

As for Boeing 757's, there are a few in store around the world although I don't think many of these are ER variants & again, one of the large US freight movers are trying to get their hands on as many 752's as they can for conversion to freighters to replace the older 727's.

As for B763 & B772, probably the same issues as with the A330.

Dc10 - too old & unreliable whilst the MD11 is another aircraft being sourced for conversion to freighers.

I'm sure Ilyushin will do them a nice deal on a couple of IL96's with western engines & avionics

FC

[richterscale10]

Wow Mike21 - you do have such an intimate knowledge of the back of house - maybe you live there!!
'Tis true - we do all need jobs - but only with viable outfits that offer some security and yes I agree that the market is out there. Just needs the right 'nonce' to tap it - eh?

[alangirvan]

Would the MaxJet 767-200ERs offer any better reliability? They are almost as old as the UKIA planes, but they would cut out the tech stop at SHJ.


Perhaps this market is not for a UK based carrier. A mini-Emirates based at Sharjah, using smaller wide bodies, flying to EMA, Leeds, Doncaster and hubbing at SHJ with flights to several cities in India/Pakistan will always do better than an airline flying from one UK port to one Pakistan city.

[boredcounter]

'Its good the Directors are not from Aviation background because they will run it like a Business and not be emotionally involved.'

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Big boys toys springs to mind. Were the founders somewhat p'd off with the PIA situation?

' I wish UKIA change the a/c as well now they have the time to do so!'

And waste even more money lodging a deposit to lease a better aircraft for the route structure?


IF YOU WISH TO MAKE A SMALL FORTUNE IN AVIATION, FIRST TAKE A LARGE FORTUNE!


UKIA, are doomed to fail, most UK aviation people, I believe have been replaced by 'locals'.

Bored

[EastMids]

Would the MaxJet 767-200ERs offer any better reliability? They are almost as old as the UKIA planes, but they would cut out the tech stop at SHJ.

Huh? Why do some folks persist in suggesting that UKIA need to re-equip when (a) their current equipment has been doing the job and (b) UKIA's equipment, its reliabily, and its capabilty, has NOTHING to do with why they're not flying right now?

[EastMids]

:ugh: Whether the business is sustainable in the long term is one issue, but again - the aircraft, loads, reliability, performance, fares, are NOT the reason why UKIA is on the ground at the moment.

[richterscale10]

So - tell us East Mids - WHY is it?


Am I right in surmising that the man at the top has thrown his toys (management team) out the pram again - so has no postholders in place to satisfy the CAA?

[Crusher1]

Whatever aircraft UKIA may or may not have it's unlikely to be able to turn a profit unless it's utilised properly, which doesn't appear to be the case, it seems doubtful that 2 flights a week could generate enough income to make the operation viable, certainly with their load factors.

I imagine that UKIA had plans for more routes which would possibly have helped, maybe they should have been a little more sorted when they first started with their route network and ticketing arrangements, which appeared to be very poor initially.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Pay day tommorrow i'm told (so 3rd Jan) . Mind you as someone who got a payslip once but no money in the bank, fingers crossed. The prob is because this is so public suppliers will soon get the jitters, ask for cash or payment on delivery and the whole saga will drag them down. Good luck is all I can say.....

[Tisme]

They have already racked up one CCJ against them, came through on our credit check system today.

May only have been for about 7k but how much longer before the figures are bigger.

[adamkhan]

Wow! you went ou your way to do a credit check? how much debt are they in? do you know that...:D

[Towerman]

"Pay day tommorrow i'm told (so 3rd Jan)":confused:

Have all staff and creditors been paid up to date??

[richterscale10]

Did you see that pig fly past Towerman !!!

[Mr Angry from Purley]

pleased to say most crew have been paid, well Cabin Crew at least:\

[diesel36]

Yes my friends been paid...:D

apparently another 76 in bombay having maintenance as well...

[Jeux sans frontieres]

Well thankfully the crew have all been paid now it seems, but there are one or two questions remaining.

One of these is to do with finances, in other words, have they got the money behind them to restart their scheduled flights?

And another question is, why was the Ops Director suspended? Rumours abound of incompetence and negligence !!!

[transwede]

Wasn't the DFO a very well respected and extremely experienced person, who has set up various other airlines? I'm sure there will be an explanation, privvy only to those involved. The reason they have suspended ops may well be to do with a, not having a named person for the AOC and b, quite possibly to adjust business model abeilt its a funny way of carrying out a re-organisation. Along with the DFO was the head of CC not also suspended? Does an airline have to have a CC manager in place in order to fulfill an AOC?

I am still of the opinion that UKIA could quite possibly be successful given the right business model, marketing, sales and staff. The UK has a large population of ethnic citizens, who do not live solely in the London area, who equally require a reliable, cost effective way of visiting family etc. Pakistan is just one destination viable with such an airline - if UKIA research their market base thoroughly then with 2/3 flights per week to each destination it is entirely possible that the airline could be a small, niche yet successful carrier.

Not keen on the colour scheme though!:hmm:

[Nato 35]

Just got off the phone to a friend who works for UKIA, he and several other pilots have not been paid for December. Also a mumber of CC (numbers unknown) are still waiting payment. Chief Training Captain is rumoured to have resigned. All a bit of a mess:confused:
35

[Kindergarten Cop]

Yes what a mess.

Quality Mgr sacked, DFO suspended with Senior Trolly Dolly suspended too and now the Chief Trg Capt has walked out!

He was overheard to say that "just like in the film industry, you should never work with children or animals!" Ha! Ha! Ha!

Whatever next?

[Jeux sans frontieres]

Maybe I spoke too soon, it seems like the pilots have not been paid yet. Well it is only the 7th January so plenty of time yet, but does this mean the company is not planning to fly again? If it does, then why did they Pay the cabin crew last week.

Does anyone know when the Co is actually intending to pay all its people? Are there any other bills not been paid (on top of the £7K CCJ that we have heard about). There should surely be a formal anouncement from the managers to the public about all this state of affairs.

[richterscale10]

"Well it is only the 7th January so plenty of time yet"

Sans Frontiers - wanna tell these guys Mortgage lenders that?

UKIA are not too hot on many things - and that includes paying folks on time. I believe that it is by design though - think how much extra interest they will be making if they hold onto their £'s just for a few days extra each month - sponging off the backs of their crews...................

[Jeux sans frontieres]

Sorry Richterscale, it was meant as a sarcastic comment - not easy to do on emails etc. I shuld've used one of these eh? :* Anyways I agree with you, it is outrageous that a company could even consider witholding salary from the hard working employees at any time let alone at Christmas. But then they do seem to have previous form in this area do'nt they?

Everyone has a mortgage and bills to pay and at this rate they are not gonna have any peeps left by the end of Jan so how are they ever gonna get airbourne again? :hmm:

[Towerman]

The B767 at EMA was as of yesterday still parked with no engine covers despite the inclement weather - who is reponsible for case and maintenance??:confused:

[loveflying787]

I have heard BCT aviation are the maintenance provider, however the rumor at EMA is that the Technical Director has also resigned!!! :D That says it all doesn’t it?:ugh:

[boredcounter]

Looking here at the positions that 'are no more' for whatever reason.

Is the aircraft waiting for a new registration? New AOC under a new authority?

How long till it is impounded? By Leasing Company maybe?

Loss of faith in the ability to return the aircraft in a specified condition. Ringfenced cash in bank called apon to restore airframe and engines to lease condition, clear all debts and I guess white tail it, with all costs covered. Or agree a return condition. Or Put it on a different register, again renogotiate.


Bored

[Jeux sans frontieres]

Yep that jest about sums it all up bored - well done. The Engineering Director is also on his way out - white tail coming soon methinks. Very sad for all the guys and gals who worked so hard to get it flying, very sad indeed. :{

[North Stand Tier3]

BCT carry out the maintenance but UKIA are responsible for it (all to do with EASA Part M). If they're not paying the bills don't expect blanks etc anytime soon - seems to be the least of their problems

Right,I'll get me coat..........................

[hcha]

does anyone know if the aircraft is still in east midlands, as i have heard it is not there anymore:*

[spook]

It's still there!

[Kindergarten Cop]

Yes aeroplane still here. A very good summery of the sitch is on the Cabin Crew forum - title is UK International Airways.

Pilots now expecting to be paid on wednesday, some joke ay?

[loveflying787]

I have been told by some one from inside that, there is no more funds with the owners. Staffs have been promised of pay 5 times in last 3 weeks and same excuse on deadline (next week). I have also been told that the company is in debt of over 25 million dollars. I would say staff wasting time, waiting around for the pay.:{

[Lucan]

Northstand Tier3
Is that the same BCT that folded as a flying school down in Kemble and/or BCT Maintenance in Cardiff?

[Yak97]

From the CAA Official Record Series 2 1832, published today:

OL/A/541 This Operating Licence, held by UK International Airlines Ltd, has been suspended at the company's request with effect from 8 January 2008

Not good news

[transwede]

Another one bites the dust. Good luck to all the staff, never a nice thing to happen especially in such a short space of time. :sad:

Maybe the start up Air Sylhet maybe able to make a go of the market?

[adamkhan]

Well thats good news, with what I hear on this forum seems like the owners were a bunch donkeys! its awful news for the crew --Do you think that this is a record breaker by means of shortest running scheduled airline?

[adamkhan]

I just seen their video on you tube

[PPRuNe Pop]

This thread is NOT for the new posters, or old, to vent their spleens. The language and comments used are completely unacceptable and have been removed - and so have a few of you to calm you down for a while.

Contain yourselves. We do not accept abuse or naming names or swearing or using PPRuNe for slagging anyone.

AA&R Moderators

[loveflying767]

Seems like the Owner are not able to accept the truth.

[pkcabincrew]

firstly the company will never start up again ...ever.

Secondly the reason why he is going on about all the new routes is because of the community's he is asking because he has broke his trust within the pakistani community.

Thirdly there is no way anyone owes him money he owes everyone money
- Anam's resturant
- engineers
- landing fees
- hotel in dubai
- most likely hotel in england for delayed flight
- east midlands airport
- crew
- pilots
- admin staff
not forgetting everything else e.g head sets ect

Who actually thinks they will ever see money a
owed to them again.

This is not the first time the family that own this airline will liquidate a company they own.

There are no investers, the company isnt going anywhere, and it takes time to liquated a company so they are buying time.

Way out there league! they probably cant even run the queensland funiture shopp without doing ome sort of dodgy business.

[loveflying767]

well said PKCabinCrew. I will say all staff should go to court for there money.

[Towerman]

According to a ground handling source, a complaint was made to the local EMA police last week that someone had broken into the aircraft and removed a large quantity of fittings like life jackets and flight log books :confused:- presumably designed to prevent anyone seizing the aircraft and flying it away.

Anyone got any further information on this?

[claireblue]

it has really left us in limbo bills due end of month and nothing at all to pay them with!:{

[Kazamb]

Hi Guys,

Im not a reguler poster on the forums, but am concerned at the state of affiars at UKIA. My main interests are in the travel trade.

I have spoken to a few agents who used to sell the UKIA proposition and all of them confirm having lost large sums of money to UKIA. UKIA's system of dealing with agents and issuing tickets was pretty much PAY UP FRONT for the tickets i.e. Lodge 30k Cash and then sell 30K worth or tickets and replenish as you required. This same system is used at AIRBLUE, Shaheen Air (from 7th Feb) and a few other airlines.

Many agents have had to take all sorts of abuse from customers, as when UKIA suspended OPS in december, customers were told to shift to other airlines and pay for those tickets seperatley and apply for a refund from UKIA.

UKIA had a meeting with agents last week and told them that refunds would start this weeks sometime.

IF UKIA does go into liquidation anytime soon, do they have any assets which can be frozen pending a creditors petition? and whether the leasing company are in the process of taking back the aircraft.?

[Kazamb]

To be honest with you, I think the only company to have been paid on time, might be VIDECOM, who have been supplying the Global Distribution System. :rolleyes:

The system is still allowing flights to be booked from the 19th February 08. I have heard rumours that extra funding is in the pipeline from a group of UK based individuals, assuming mr Khaliq isnt to bigheaded to relinquish control of the airline, thinking he can run it as a family concern. :oh:

There were press rumours that UKIA was in the process of signing up for the Boeing Dreamliner, were these rumours just mere rumours or was there any truth in them?

[claireblue]

dreamliner ha thats what they are DREAMING!!! need to pay staff before he can fly, dont work for free

[Miss Muff Flaps]

The first few months in the life of a start-up airline are critical. It’s a time for budgeting and maximising return on yield – being lean and keen in anticipation of the more comfortable and prosperous times ahead. From what I’ve heard the owner has had the unfortunate experience of having made an unwise appointment that has led to substantial amounts of company money being wasted and interrupting the much needed flow of income versus outgoings. Had the owner made more careful enquiries about the reasons for a DFO from a high profile carrier suddenly becoming available to work as a DFO for a start-up airline at short notice, the company might not be in such an unhappy position now. A recent example is that said person chose to bring an entire crew back to the UK from Sharjah via another carrier at a cost of £25,000, rather than position on company aircraft (DFO plus one pilot and one member office staff in Business Class; Cabin Crew in Economy – CRM at its finest). You can take the boy out of BA, but you can’t take BA out of the boy :8

[boredcounter]

On a very serious note,

Those that have been paid in the past and have payslips, please read this.

I worked for a very reputable airline (for 9 and a bit years) that went bang after a management buy out (18 months later)

Turns out, NI contributions, may or not have been paid. Payslips to prove you were docked said contributions by the company is all it takes to get the 'feds' off your back and on to theirs instead. (I would suggest keep bank statements to prove BACS of take home pay as well).

If I have got things wrong, given the appauling conduct of this company toward its staff and biggest asset, I hope someone better educated than me steps in to advise.

Nothing more I can say, good luck.

Bored

[claireblue]

thanks for the advice Boredcounter,

[ginko]

miss muff flaps , i am sorry to say your info is all wrong or your sources are not telling the truth

the DFO is not to blame he is well respected and well known in the industry, he has been around and he knows this business inside out, the person we have to blame is the owner for his pig headedness and his stupidity to listen to people who dont know anything about aviation

he has made bad judgements the owner but he has to realise as he said the crew/FD are only a miniscule part of an airline

HOW WRONG IS HE :ugh::ugh::ugh:

[curry1983]

"A recent example is that said person chose to bring an entire crew back to the UK from Sharjah via another carrier at a cost of £25,000, rather than position on company aircraft (DFO plus one pilot and one member office staff in Business Class; Cabin Crew in Economy – CRM at its finest). You can take the boy out of BA, but you can’t take BA out of the boy :8"

Hmmm, Miss Muff Flaps... I don't know where you are getting your information from, but it is not a very reliable source. I happened to be on "said flight from Sharjah" with this DFO, and they definitely 100% did not sit in business class with any members of office staff?? Or I certainly hope not, as one DFO was sitting directly in front of me, and the member of office staff at the side of me.... :}

The DFO in question, I have worked with for a good few years and I have never heard such ridiculous nonscence in my whole life.. at the time, the decision was THE only decision to make... Unless you were there then DO NOT pass comment. Oh and I very much doubt that it costs £25,000 to fly 9 crew from Dubai to Manchester.

[loveflying767]

Numbers of staffs are going to the court and are filing criminal case against the owner (Father and Son). I am sure he will be locked up for long time. Both father and son will get done.:(

[qwertyplop]

Apologies for this - probably a stupid question.

But why are they filing 'criminal' cases? Or do you mean 'civil' cases in relation to salaries not getting paid et al?

People are alluding to a lot of different things here in relation to the operation.

:confused:

[PPRuNe Pop]

You cannot file for criminal proceedings. You have to make a complaint to the police and they decide.

It does seem a mess and it is clear that people are being hurt BUT........you have to be very careful what you post. There must be no libellous stuff and you must not name names, or abbreviate them. In both cases PPRuNe could be held to account and we will not allow that to happen.

Keep your posts factual and avoid dressing things up. Think before you post.

We mods are on 'ModCon2' alert. := We are watching carefully! 'ModCon1' is a closedown! :sad:

AA&R Mods

[qwertyplop]

Emmm - totally agree with the above - facts are more interesting.

All very confusing though..!!

:confused:

[Yak97]

Can you post names on Pprune when they are in the public domain? i.e the CEO of UKIA is clearly identified on their website??

Just a question

[loveflying767]

I agree that no one should dress it up. The reason for criminal case is due to Tax involvement. As lost of staff have contacted the Tax office and found out that PAYE tax was not payed to Inland Revenue, hence the case will turn to criminal case I have been told by one of the staff perusing the matter forward.

Let me know if we are not allowed to post such information. I will not do that if you advise so.

[qwertyplop]

What an apparent mess. :sad:

[The Real Slim Shady]

............he had listened to the advice given to him, free of charge, in the first place when the embryonic UKIA was Air Tigra.

He was told that the 767 - 222 would never work: that the planned tech stop - originally Odessa was mooted as well as Istanbul - would never work. The original team, bar 1, bailed out because of the intransigence.

Perhaps it is a salutory lesson to anyone else with some money to burn to in an airline but with no experience of this business: you have to listen to the people who know what they are talking about.

[qwertyplop]

This goes back years though - certainly to at least 2005 with Air Tigra - possibly before.

What I don't understand though is the complete and apparent lack of consideration for any number of the issues that are alleged on here both operational and non-operational.

Why, with all the trouble that goes with a start-up, would you do some of the stuff that is alleged in this thread.

Would EMA have them back if, by some miracle, they managed to get going again?

[richterscale10]

Not that I would normally sanction such 'terms of endearment' but there is a thread on www.cabincrew.com that gives a new euphanism for UKIA - you should read it. Have a look on the rumours section...........

Richterscale

[mike21]

I have just read all the posts I think that everyone is getting carried away with personal feelings we are all proffessionals and such should behave like ones. First matter is UK Intnl is a LTD Company and the owners can walk away, why are they not walking away is the Million $ question
why not just take the easy way out?
One thing is for sure UKIA does not have loyal employees
The management are not good but one has to beg the question why?

Now no one here I believe is connected to the management and UKIA has not had smooth sailing, but come on lets look at it positively they could walk away anytime they want to but have not.......

Some of the Employees UKIA took on were not pro's in the Industry and had been forced from previous jobs and some even got sacked from pre jobs.

Well the only thing that is a plus is that at least some people got jobs and got paid till very recent. My last employer all the staff were not paid for 3 months!!!!!

No consulation to the position you guys find yourself in but come on this Industry is not for the faint hearted.

I realy believe there is no smoke without the fire, UKIA has not given any statements out yet so lets give them a chance, hey no one here as ever opened an Airline before the amount of work that goes into a start up is immense, UKIA did that so lets not be too critical if it was as easy as that many would have done it.

We as people in the Industry should be saying lets see what we can do, as our lives are connected to this industry or we could go for the easy way and go and work for Emirates or Etihad,.........:suspect: or ..........

Long haul travel UK originating pax are carried more by Foreign airlines that British Airlines, this is the real situation and the quicker we all can get to grasps with that the better, we need more British Airlines and we need to support them whether it be UKI or others because its our jobs at stake and ou future........so guys think again,,,,,,,,,,

We should all grow up.... and face British Aviation is becoming dead and buried slowly but surely,,,,,,,now can we do anything about it.....

[mike21]

HI

Looks like you did not leave a good secure job to move with UKIA from my knowledge all the C.C. were all ex Flyjet and new boys and girls that had no experience, so looks like you really do need to pick up the phone and speak to the CEO and tell him what you think:D

[loveflying767]

It is apparent from all your 13 posts before that either you are one of the owner or associate. Even if you are not then, if you haven’t been paid for last 3 months then I will not class you much of professional especially in Aviation industry. Further more there are no Millions to walk away with otherwise they would have done it.

As far as the post on this section is concerned they are true hence you have also posted here. UKIA is still there but there is nothing there to class it an airline. As some had posted it yesterday that they are buying time to liquidize the company. It is also apparent that the CEO reads all the post hence no need for a phone call.

[richterscale10]

Hi Mike21 - the way that you approach this forum I'll say again that you seem like you have inside knowledge of UKIA.
I think that UKIA Directors have not walked as they are so dense that they have not understood the gravity of the situation and their now precarious reputation.......the CEO doesn't know what he is doing and his over inflated ego will not allow him to listen to good advice - from PROFESSIONALS !!
If some of the 'pro's' came from bad backgrounds - then why did UKIA take them on? Surely they have a screening process in place? I hear the HR Director has vast experience in large companies in Dubai.
Where on earth was your last employer for you not to receive pay? I am guessing not here in the UK ?
I have, in fact, been involved in several airline start ups and it IS hard work but when a management team is allowed to work as a team and not autonomously as UKIA's CEO preferred to do business it CAN work. None of the outfits I worked at were even close to the shambles and totally inappropriate business management as this lot. It helps to have the right person at the top to drive the business in the right direction - flitting about all over the place and trying to save money in all the wrong places just doesn't work!!
As for support - it is a two way street. A good Company looks after it's staff and the staff looks after the Company. UKIA was working in the Dark Ages with 3rd World ethics.

I DO have a word to say to the CEO.......pathetic!!!

[ginko]

nice one richterscale

exactly my thoughts and the rest of the UKIA crews thoughts,

hit that NAIL right on its HEAD

so mike21 where do we go from here then !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[adamkhan]

well said richterscale:ok:

[claireblue]

yes well said, so where do we go from here then? stay loyal and work for free???

[Little Blue]

Any of the ex-baby crew that went across interested in coming back?
Courses coming up !
(In fact, any of the crew !)

[PPRuNe Pop]

Thank you for your PM's and your concerns to post correctly.

As I said, names are not allowed. If they are on a website that does not mean they allowed on the forum.

I also think you have to positively ascertain which is criminal action and which is civil action. Tax fraud is a matter for the tax office who will if needed take action. They just have to be informed.

Thanks again for taking care.

PPP

[Kindergarten Cop]

Interesting thread and thanks to Prune Mods for keeping it alive - we are sure its gonna be worth the effort.

Good post Ms Richterscale and well accurate, there are some other posts wich are also closer to being accurate than they might seem. Miss Muff Flaps for example, she was close to the mark too (curious name though)
:hmm:

[phishphood]

Quality posting from all - some interesting thoughts from Mike21 - Who was obviously not involved. This is a sad state of affairs for all the people that have been dragged into this debarcle. I hear that the owner, when interviewing all these people from aviation -(as HE clearly isn't) promised he had money and would not jeopardise anyone's future...ha. He certainly sold the idea from his furniture shop somehow, hence why everyone joined but I feel sorry for the people who can't pay their bills and have not been paid since Nov, bet you all had a great Christmas?!:confused:
So well done to the owner:D, he succeeded in sucking many experienced people in, when there were many doubts surrounding the operation.
In the meantime has anyone got any ideas how all the ex-employees can get their money?? as no-one has had any success so far!!! :ugh:
Good Luck to everyone involved with UKIA, I'm sure you will all find jobs elsewhere:ok:

Phishphood

[ginko]

There is a lot of speculation and comments been thrown at UKIA and can i say by some people who aint even anything to do with UKIA

UKIA has let his crew and flight deck down badly, and by us all posting these comments i hope people realise that this company is best avoided at all cost

At the interview we were promised a number of things as every new airline does, but i wonder how can a new start after 3 months colapse so quickly, i think the we have to point the finger at the owner , i know as i flew with his nephew that he/has signed over half his properties to his relatives and is basically trying everything in his will to not to be associated with UKIA anymore,

I feel for the crew and everyone who worked there, basically we aint gonna see no money, never ever and if we do it would be a god send, maybe on this account we have to write it off and put it down to a BAD BAD BAD BAD mistake

Wishing all the crew and FD all the best for the future, some good people who worked there, THINGS CAN ONLY GET BETTER :D:D:D:D:D

[richterscale10]

phishpood - au contraire - (that how you spell it?) I think you will find that Mike 21 was VERY much involved...... Eh Mike??

[claireblue]

finished by email fantastic

[Flightrider]

They can't legally terminate your employment without having told you. If the e-mail notification has been sent today, then they would be obliged to pay you up and including today, not the 18th. Good luck.

[curry1983]

Don't they have to give us 90 days notice? Can anyone shed any light on this?

[Flightrider]

Your notice period will be defined in your contract and may depend on how long you've been with the company. [I'm assuming that they had given you a contract!] If none is specified, then I think the statutory minimum is one week's notice period as you would have been employed for more than a month but less than two years. If your contract says it is longer, then the longer period would apply. Do a quick search on the terms "UK minimum notice period" and it should bring up the government advice page with the hard info that you need.

[boredcounter]

Hi guys and girls,

A sorry predicament, been there before myself, hope you all find your feet very soon indeed.

I believe you are entitled to lodge a claim for all legitimate monies owed to you, wages, agreed notice period, per diems, accrued holiday pay, over-time and (god forbid) out of pocket business expenses while employed.
With the exception of wages (as the e-mail says you will be paid) I believe you will be unsecured creditors for the remainder.

My apologies to phrase it like this, but it was a whole lot more clear cut the last time it happened to me, the company bigger and the terms of service much longer.

Entitlement to the Government schemes is strictly governed, most not applicable until 2 years continuous service.

However:

http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/pdfs/guidanceleafletspdf/guideforemployees.pdf

Does state, redundancy notice pay from 1 weeks service, if I interpret it correctly

Protected award for lack of consultation:

http://www.dti.gov.uk/employment/employment-legislation/employment-guidance/page13852.html

Read them through and ring the departments for clarification.

Little consolation, but I found the Government Agencies responsible most helpful in the past.

Also, as I said before, I am not an authority on this, only through past experience. Anyone please feel free to correct me if I am misleading folks here in my attempts to help out.


Good luck and happy job hunting

Bored

[hottotty]

well i cant beleive its gone bust sucha good honest company to work for, who woulda thought ali would **** on his own hey. so much for blending cultures hey. they only look after themselves.
on a good note av met some wicked people who i'll continue to stay intouch with, we had some good times in dubai and in sharjah. but all good things come to an end.:(

[fade to grey]

You must have been nuts to get involved in this shambles anyway....
website designed by a four year old, which even google couldn't find,
head office a furniture shop,

Were the signs not there ?

[mike21]

I have read all your replies and GINKO after you published the letter that you say UKIA sent you well maybe it is the best way. a True proffesional like you will get a job anywhere:{

By the way I had my own business as well in the past and i can only say from a Pro point of view AFTER READING ALL I think they UKIA definately had a bad bunch of employees.

:ugh:

Mike 21 Go take a hike for a few days with a foolish comment like that. Hogg

[The Highlander]

Mike21,
I take serious offence at your last post, The staff at UKIA were amongst some of the most respected in the industry and I considered it an honour to work alongside them.
As for the email Ginko says was apparently sent by UKIA i can confirm it WAS sent as i received one to.

You are obvioulsy someone who smiles and laughs at others misfortune or someone who has absolutley no idea wht he is talking about, or worse still both.
I advise you show a little more restraint as aviation is a small world and it is possible you may find yourself bumping into us 'bunch of bad employees' who may have an impact on any of your future career moves, or if you continue to aimlessly ramble on it could be lack of career moves.

Show a little to respect to fellow PROFESSIONALS in wht is a very trying time for us all.

[phishphood]

Mike21, I echo what The Highlander says - that is out of order. :=

Unfortunatley, some less experienced people will have been hurt by this too, some of them will be put off aviation for life which is a shame. It is a small world and you never know who you will bump into and where. Friends made in aviation generally stay friends -(Although there are one or two exceptions!!!!)

Yes, there were initial signs of this, but if you don't try you never know do you? To be involved in a start-up and to gain an AOC, operate charters and then a scheduled operation with less than minimum resources is some achievement (before the money ran out). Give the 'bad employees' some credit, Mike21.
It wasn't the employees that let the owners down, it's the other way round.

To be emailed with termination of contract just shows how unprofessional these people are - complete lack of respect for what was achieved by some excellent people who devoted their entire lives to trying to make this a success. And, all this after a meeting was held where the owners discussed their plans for new staff and aircraft - These people are :mad:

Best of Luck to all of the 'good employees' from UKIA - no doubt we'll meet again soon, somewhere!:ok:

[loveflying767]

Mike 21 :=

As I said before and saying it again, either you are one of the owner or associate and you have proved it by making all the shameless post. :}
I can tell you one thing for sure that ‘with this attitude you can’t even run corner shop’. By the way all professional who were working for ukia are already out there and doing well:). I have no doubt that UKIA owners will pay for there deeds one way or the other:ugh:. What goes around comes around!!! Be prepared for it:ok:

[richterscale10]

Mike 21 - tut tut!! Aren't you busy getting your new crew together? Have you got time to be posting on forums? Wont you get into trouble for being on the internet too much in works time?? :=

[Topping]

mike21 is obviously UKIA, possibly management or even higher.

I've some knowledge of UKIA, have met the boss on a few occasions and am afraid to say saw this coming. There's ambition and there's blind ambition.

Business plan anyone?

[adamkhan]

MIKE21 its obvious your a megga fan of UKIA, but your missing the point mate, any company big or small must have some regard for its employees AND THAT MEANS PAY THEM FOR THEIR HARD WORK. Im goin to ignore you from now on, your comments are pointless:}

[isa kite]

Out of order. Well out! There are dishonest people in all cultures, all nationalities.

[Hogg]

Anybody posting racist comments of any type OR attacks on hardworking ground and aircrew ALL of whom were 110% dedicated to this venture from our view are
NOT welcome here.

Our sincere best wishes in finding alternative employment. Dont be set back by this. This business is and always will be the best in the world.

Hogg and AA&R Mods

[Hawk]

And anyone posting on here with accusations, or naming names that are not already in the public domain, be prepared to send your personal contact details to admin1. Because the Site will not enter into any potential litigation issues on your behalf.

Thank you.

[The Real Slim Shady]

I was told that the airframe at EMA is now up for sale by the lessor. I presume the second planned airframe will meet the same fate.

[GW76]

Read that the market for clapped out 762s has improved and MaxJet have flogged two of theirs already.

[Kazamb]

Aircraft are showing listed since 28/9/2007. That was before they even started.

http://www.speednews.com/EquipmentDetail.aspx?EquipID=51960&CompanyID=12806&Type=Aircraft

:ugh:

[adamkhan]

does this mean that they really do own the aircraft?

[The Real Slim Shady]

Kazamb

That listing is for the wet lease of the aircraft when UKIA were looking for ad hoc work to fill in between the scheduled services.

adamkhan

No they don't own the airframes.

[Kazamb]

So which company actaully owns the aircraft? I know the CAA maintains a register to show mortgage charges on the aircraft but its not available online.

[The Real Slim Shady]

I was only told who was marketing the airframe and the price they wanted for it - US$13 Mill.

Incidentally, what is happening to the out of work crew members? A tad more important than the aircraft!!

[ginko]

Well Guys and Girls

Today is the 29th January and still no pay , we all recieved letter and still no pay, it even states in the letter that we will get our money which is due to us when we hand in the company property

Well on employee went and the owner said she needs a reciept of the pass office in EMA so they went to EMA got a receipt and when she returned to the office to collect the money she got told SURPRISE SURPRISE

WE HAVE NO MONEY TO GIVE YOU

the employee followed all the correct procedures and still no money , this has become a farce of the highest degree

what are they playing at, it clearly states in the letter sent that we are entitiled to our money , why does the owner just pay the people there money and be done with it , then they wouldnt be slated or ridicluded in this way as for MIKE 21 well he is on the payroll and bet he has been paid also it has come to light that the owner also has a FINANCE AND MORGTAGE BUSINESS

and to add insult to injury one off the crew is now working in his office in sheffield, HMMMMMMM I WONDER IF SHE HAS BEEN PAID OR IS SHE JUST PLAIN STUPID

GIVE US OUR MONEY AND WE WILL LEAVE THE WORLD OF UKIA ALONE< DEAD AND BURIED:E:E:E:E:E:E

[k1ng]

Well I have read the post and I can’t tell who too trust it looks like it’s mostly the ex staff that are replying and some still working ukia staff, so if you guys dont have anything better to do it may be a idea to look for jobs other then replying to each other all day :p

[phishphood]

Well, K1ng - try telling that to the people fighting for their money from these sharks..

You obviously have been able to pay your mortgage, bills, and put petrol in your car since Christmas. These people haven't.

Is it too much to ask for, to want the money they've earned? :uhoh:

Despite recent events these people have worked for UKIA and expect to be paid by UKIA. Maybe the owners and their sons and nephews could sell some of the flashy big black cars they ride around in, and pay the workers their final salaries and expenses?

Ginko - no surprise there. So many promises, so many lies. These people did not deserve to have you all, giving so much for the cause and be let down time and time again.

Mr K - pay people their money and they can all move on.....

[Topping]

Is UKIA still trading? If so, are they trading insolvently? If they are, check out the law, people. UKIA is a Limited company, bound by Company Law.

If the company is in administration then, if you are owed money, you'll need to lodge a claim with the administrators. You will be an unsecured creditor, behind the banks and anyone alse with a charge registered against any UKIA property.

If the boss has made personal guarantees you may be better able to claim.

I wouldn't waste any money persuing a claim though.

[First Bag]

The offices that UKIA were using at EMA were cleared out last Wednesday/Thursday, theres just desks and cupboards left in there.

[The Real Slim Shady]

When you think about it, the DFO was "suspended" and the head of Cabin Services hit with the same fate and then the HoT resigned just before the plug was pulled.

Now a cynic might wonder if the writing was on the wall then and the sackings were a smokescreen to confuse the issue?

[Kindergarten Cop]

Company seems to be still solvent, altho not operating. They have got millions invested in the airplane but no money to give to the troops.

One things for sure here - the Fat Lady has'nt sung yet!