Position lights in the day?

[Johe02]

I have recently noticed a 'rash' of heli operators flying with the anti-coll, landing light and position lights switched on during brilliant sunshine!

Whats going on? Have they gone mental or just bought shares in a a/c lights supplier?
Those little bulbs cost about 45 quid each not to mention the panel lights packing up while you are night flying.

:ugh:

[SASless]

Jo,

Did Marse Smith tell you panel lights work off Anti-Col switches or something? Must one turn on the Nav Lights to get the Strobes to bark?

Where you doing your shopping Mate?

Show us the details of a receipt that confirms that 45 Quid number.

[Aser]

You just bought shares in a helicopter company?? or what?? :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[Bravo73]

Landing lights can be useful if operating at high speed at low levels (say at less than 2000ft and more than 90kts :E) - birds will fly away from them apparently. :ok:

Position lights on during the day? Like you say, just a waste of bulbs. Don't help with your conspicuousness at all. :ugh:

[Johe02]

Did Marse Smith tell you panel lights work off Anti-Col switches or something? Must one turn on the Nav Lights to get the Strobes to bark?



Wierd. .:confused:

[ShyTorque]

It's a personal choice! Had this argument a long time ago when we were re-writing an RAF helicopter checklist and someone wanted to mandate "Position Lights - ON" in the the pre-start items. He thought it was a compulsory thing, even by day! I produced the relevant document and we settled on "Position lights - As required".

However, it is of course a legal requirement in UK for helicopters to display the anti-collision light by day whenever the rotors are turning.

Edit: With the exception given for helicopters on an offshore platform, for signalling that it is safe to board pax.

[flimflam]

With regard to nav lights - If you can't see a big metal flying machine in the sky on a clear day..methinks a little bulb of red, green or white is not going to affect the outcome of the impending collision! If, however, the sun has gone down......
Landing light - ON in daytime when forward speed equals cooling, and known or expected traffic is not visual - 'specially in sh?t Viz.

[platinumpure]

Anti collision light must also be on in US if helicopter so equipped.

I also fly with position lights on, however this is because they come on automatically with the 2 secondary fancy little LED anti-collision lights, which are fitted to the H/Stabilizers, they look so pretty (flash, flash). I also fly with the pulse light system operating - alternating between landing and taxi light - again very pretty (flash, flash). :D

I operate both these lighting systems from just before I'm ready to lift until I land. This gives people on the ground or in other helicopters a signal that I'm about to move. As far as in flight is concerned I keep them operating, every little helps even on sunny days, and also because I don't really care how much they cost to replace (it’s a bulb!). 45quid may be a little expensive though. As far as the panel lights are concerned though, I don't usually operate these unless I need them. Possibly the helicopter you are flying, has the position lights and instrument lights connected together. I have personally never come across that.

[DBChopper]

I have recently noticed a 'rash' of heli operators flying with the anti-coll, landing light and position lights switched on during brilliant sunshine!


Imagine! :uhoh:

The scandal! :eek:

I have to say my first reaction is... so what? Ok, so the position lights are a matter of choice. I can't see that they make a whole lot of difference in bright sunshine but you just never know but - and I'm with platinumpure on this - I still use them and I don't really care how much those little bulbs cost either.

As for the landing light... in a busy circuit at a busy training airfield what harm can it do to makes onesself a little more visible, both for the benefit of other a/c and ATC? Yes, I know we should all know where every other aircraft is all of the time but in the Real World we don't do we, so every little helps. And if I'm flying the heliroutes or in congested airspace and there is other traffic about then on goes the ol' landing light again. Yes, I know, more wastage of the poor old bulb but I still don't care.

Johe02 - was it a quiet day or something..? ;)

[Flingwing207]

Anticollision - all the time, of course.

Position - only when it's dim enough that they are visible, otherwise, what is the point, really. At night on shutdown, they stay on to help mark the tail rotor.

Landing - on the way into the airport. Once in the pattern, it goes off. At night, used as needed.

Of course you can leave all the lights on all the time, and maybe it would give you that 0.0027% edge. On the other hand, staying late to replace the burned-out aft position light might make you 0.92% less sharp the next morning...

...man this Fetzer Bonterra Chardonnay is tasty! :}

[SayItIsntSo]

Have you noticed how the replacement green nav lights bulbs are more expensive than the red ones?;)


SIIS

[eagle 86]

UK - bright sunshine!!? You must be kidding!
GAGS
E86

[Johe02]

DB
Yep, you got me.. .

I guess I already know the answer to my own question, but in UK the Health & Safety Nazi's really get to me sometimes. Position lights in the day just seem to be an extension of that and the only thing they do is say, 'look how safe I am, I've even got my nav lights on to increase my visibility'. There seems to be hardly anyone left with any common sense. .
The EU are still trying to push through compulsory day running lights for all road vehicles, I assume most people think this is a good thing? One day they will get away with it, making motorbikes less visible again etc

We already have the hi-viz jacket rules so we can all walk around looking like special needs school children. What next, compulsory helmets in a/c?

I blame the 'LOOK LEFT' and 'LOOK RIGHT' signs that started appearing on the roads in London about 25 years ago, interfering with the laws of natural selection. .

[Brilliant Stuff]

I also fly with the pulse light system operating - alternating between landing and taxi light - again very pretty (flash, flash). :D



Could you please explain to me what they are? I have not come across them before.

[whoateallthepies]

johe02

Another member of the Victor Meldrew club! I aree with everything you said.Where will it stop? Maybe we'll have signs on the side of aircraft saying "Aviation can be hazardous to your health"
:rolleyes:

[Head Turner]

no. no no all you guys have got it wrong, well some of you have. Remember that the cabin of your aircraft is your workplace AND you have the duty to look after yourself and others...THEREFORE you should do everything in your power to make your aircraft as conspicuous as is possible with the equipment that is fitted. The cost of light bulbs is not relevant in law.

So I would like to ask if the Robinson 66 project could be rekindled to take to account the 'safety' features that the office bound aviators would -or will - require. Ppruners, your thoughts please.

All helicopter colour schemes be banished and a standard hi viz scheme be mandatory

[John Eacott]

Another member of the Victor Meldrew club!

:cool: :D :ok:

[Flingwing207]

Could you please explain to me what they <pulse lights> are? I have not come across them before.A system which alternates (if dual lights) or pulses (single light) your landing lights about twice per second (a bit slower than the alternating headlight flash on an unmarked police car, but the same idea).

[platinumpure]

Thats the ones!

[SASless]

What about wearing a Hi-Vis vest then....if one should take every precaution possible. Would that not be the next to last available step to avoid a collision?

[Ed Thrust IV]

Sasless,
Just to be on the safe side I have started wearing my high visibility jacket in side the cockpit. I am thinking of wearing two at night just to be extra careful.What do the rest of you think?

[MD900 Explorer]

Aircraft should be fitted with at least 4 HISL's and CAT1 police approved CE marked CAA spec reflective tape on the skids, so that it lights up like a christmas tree when you shine a light upon it..:D

MD :suspect:

NB, Pilots should only wear correctional facility orange flying suits with their own CAA number on the back, just incase they need to be reported.:{

[thecontroller]

i think we should all just stay at home to be safe.

what with all this vibration, deafness, fatigue, weather, maintenance problems, duty hours, noise, idiot students, idiot management, the CAA, the FAA, the newbies, the oldies, the military, the J1 folk, the R22, the 206 tail rotor....

we should all just get office jobs for double the salary and half the stress.....

[Ed Thrust IV]

Can somone tell me why we all started wearing these yellow high viz fashion statements and are there any statistics showing how many lives they have saved. Please do not give me any nonsense about how it identifies you as aircrew or airport staff,anybody can buy one in the suprermarket.

[MD900 Explorer]

Ed

It must be because after you have parked your lovely helicopter and you are walking across the apron for a cup of tea, and admiration from the ladies/gents, that the plank driver, who can just see over the instrument panel and focus with his -5 prescription glasses through the prop, which is over revving, doesnt mow you down, because of your stealthy black or navy blue flight suit blends into the background.:D

I have only really seen plank drivers with them on, but thats my 10 øre's worth. :{

MD :rolleyes:

[The Nr Fairy]

No. But it is the law to pay for your own training including landing fees !

[DBChopper]

Perhaps he means he made him wear the hi-vis jacket to pay the landing fee?

:cool:

[ShyTorque]

Sasless,
Just to be on the safe side I have started wearing my high visibility jacket in side the cockpit. I am thinking of wearing two at night just to be extra careful.What do the rest of you think?

Saw you today at EGLW, if you were flying an R-44! Just as well you were wearing it, or we might have been concerned that the aircraft was up there all by itself....... ;)

[SHortshaft]

We fly with position lights and anti-collision strobe lights on all the time (even though we have plenty of sun and it is pretty bright here)…because we can I guess! Landing light goes on in reduced visibility.

Sorry to hi-jack the thread, but hi-viz jackets are a ‘pet peeve’ of mine.

Our regulatory authority tells us that we have to wear hi-viz vests because ICAO requires it.

However, we only have to wear the jackets whilst working on the aircraft or doing external inspections on the apron. We don’t have to wear them whilst airside and walking to and from the aircraft. (Is that crazy?)

To add insult to injury we have to have the name of our company stenciled on the back of the jacket.

I refuse to wear one, just because I am awkward, and because I feel that if someone is going to run me down he is also going to take out ‘my ride’ as well.

My argument, if I am asked, is that there is no place to stow the jecket ‘on the flight deck’ of my small helicopter and I don’t want to wear it in flight because it is 100% nylon (risk in the event of the fire) and it will cause me to overheat, my cabin’s ambient temperature is already an uncomfortable 34°C with high humidity (no aircon here), reducing my performance even more and increasing the risk of an accident.

So far I haven’t been challenged, but the day will come.