Qld MPT Shakeup?

[Capt SFB]

Good Afternoon Chaps,
A little birdie told me that a certain Queensland MPT operator, the "private" one, may be a little less private soon, with a larger operator taking over. Just a rumour mind you, my little birdie couldn't expand further. Anyone else??
Best Regards,
Capt.

[pohm1]

Have heard two versions, Australian Helicopters bought them out, and one of the Whitsunday mobs has done the same. Leaning more to the latter than the former.

[brame]

I hear that AH may be a target themselves......

[pohm1]

Tell us more..........

[brame]

No..........

Just keep your ear to the ground for the next few weeks. Don't want to deflect this thread from the origional rumour.

Anyone got any more info?

[kwikenz]

Well in any case as you and I both know MS, having the individual responsible for the 'private one' out of the industry is a big win for all.

I may have been heard to exclaim 'good ridance fat :mad:' in the crew room here, much to the amusement of my colleagues.

Good luck to whoever the new operator may be. Lets hope there will be a general move to raise the passage fees so that they can head to a 2 crew ME operation as it needs to be. Now that the individual in question will be out of the picture (other than staying on as a consultant no doubt), there shouldnt be any excuses.

I wonder, given that he has 1000 hours as an IFR passenger, whether he might be applying for a pilots job in the near future? He clearly knows what he is doing :hmm:

[bellfest]

Lets hope there will be a general move to raise the passage fees so that they can head to a 2 crew ME operation as it needs to be.

There's not too many around foolish enough to operate the way thay have been doing it. It is good to see it end like this instead of ending with a JR being home to 60 different species of coral. That poor old girl must have been overtorqued more in the pitch black then it's owner has had jam filled donuts:E

[kwikenz]

:D Nice one Bellfest! Easily done when the machine makes about 75% of its power!

The special ultra long range 109C might have had an exceedence or two also!

Im sure the marine pilots will feel so much better about being out of the hands of the donut monster and into machines fit for the job :p

[r44driver]

Well, I must say that having worked for a professional outfit there, it was a bit surprising to be out in the early hours of the morning with fog forecast at YBMK and having and needing a 4 hour endurance due to alternate requirements, to see the 206 out at the boarding ground.
I guess that must be one of those 206's with the 150 gallon tank!

[MPT]

G'day All,

Should be interesting when all the facts are revealed on this one.

Don't forget chaps that the "private" nature of this organisation was "legal" under CASA regs. As long as the other requirements were followed (and as far as I know most of their pilots attempted to do so), then the operation was "legal". The pilots from there that I have come across seem to be as professional a bunch as you get anywhere. The fact that most are in MPT elsewhere or flying IFR twins attest to that. The point I'm trying to make is not to confuse questionable management using a loophole in the regs with "bad" pilots.

BTW Bellfest, I don't think that there is any excuse for overtorqueing a B206 (or a H500) in MPT operations. The helicopter doesn't know it's pitch black and the bloke pulling the lever shouldn't be looking outside anyway:= Don't forget that there are quite a few 206's and 500's doing MPT's around the country every night of the year.

Cheers,

MPT

[r44driver]

MPT

Where is the guy supposed to be looking?

[pohm1]

Inside, at the instruments, looking for wings level, a positive rate of climb and a positive airspeed. If you start looking outside you'll get your shoes wet.:ok:

[r44driver]

That's an interesting answer.
I presume we are talking about 'Night VFR' single pilot.
I think the reference to over torqueing, was referring to the approach and not enroute or taking off so at various points of the pilot transfer you need to be looking outside. Remember it is VFR. Even if it is an IFR operation you still need to conduct a VFR approach to the ship. The takeoff is the easy bit.

[pohm1]

The take off is the easy bit? I'd disagree, on the way in you have instruments and a limited amount of visual clues to assist in the approach. You sit for a minute or so on the lit deck then take off. All of a sudden you are into the blackness, subject to any number of deceptive inner ear signals and no external visual clues, you can not tell where the water ends and the sky begins, so it requires a total reliance on instruments. You shouldn't think about looking outside until you are through 500'.

[bellfest]

MPT

Not having a go at any pilots. I was stating it under the opinion that if I had collectively done that many transfers in a 206 at night there is a good chance that there would have have been several occasions where I would have considered a posetive rate of climb a bit more vital then an OT. Just looking at the law of averages. Maybe I'm just a s##t pilot:sad:

R44driver

I was talking about the take off. You could have taught me a thing or two if it was the easy bit!!

[r44driver]

Well sorry guys, having done a few night ships I thought we were on the same page.
To me, the approach to a ship is the critical part. If you assess things wrong you will either 1)go-around nicely 2) over stress the machine or 3)fly into the water.
If you have trouble with the takeoff, you shouldn't be out there.
It is a standard IFR Takeoff, if you start to lose it check your other enormous AH, what could go wrong?
Too many guys with not enough training still doing this, what are we waiting for?

[kwikenz]

Remember the 206 in question is fully IFR machine. I dont think I would be out of order to sugges that Night VFR machines have no business being out at the Banks in the middle of the night, if that was the suggetion of course! As for the takeoffs, if youve done a few out there at night, youll know it aint visual... not a chance, the ship lights are gone within seconds and your straight into it. You have all the visual cues of Stevie Wonder trying to climb stairs!

As for the pilots, the last two chief pilots are top fellas and safety conscious to a fault. I agree with MPT... it's CASA who needs a kicking for allowing it to go ahead. By all accounts they hated it but were too limp to actually do anything about it. It might be all well and good for the donut monster to pressure pilots with his bluster and bulls@#t but one would expect a regulator to show a bit more spine. Its never reassuring when auditors on yet another 'emergency' audit leave the place wishing the pilots the best of luck and sympathy.

Again as per MPT's suggestion, the rules actually werent getting broken... perhaps stretched to the point of failure sure, but again where was the regulator!

At least its over for now. My vote is to shoot Captain Creosote out to the Banks via pneumatic canon with a chum bag attached about his neck as per suggestions by all invovled.

LOL... rant over:}

[bellfest]

It is a standard IFR Takeoff, if you start to lose it check your other enormous AH, what could go wrong?

You could over torque it.
Nil wind, crane ship, humid, Jabba da Hut in the backseat, pitch black:ooh:
You can still fly into the water with your wings level. I am not taking the piss out of anyone and I would happily do it in a G5 during the day though I personally think I would find certain conditions uncomfortable on departure in a JR that heavy and I wouldn't hesitate to pull a bit more than my qouta to prevent being part of the only S/E SPIFR artificial reef in our waters.

On that note I would think that the guys who have/are doing it must be pretty professional. Very brave and tempting their fate a bit but good IFR pilots

[r44driver]

The 'what could go wrong' bit was in jest.
Having done a few night ships in jetrangers in various places I still think the approach is more hazardous than the departure.
The takeoff is all in the technique and if trained properly it should be no big deal assuming no mechanical failures. It is an IFR takeoff and needs to be treated as such.
If an overtorque happens the machine is probably too heavy for the conditions, or has been mishandled.
There is no substitute for proper training for this kind of operation.

[bellfest]

There is no substitute for proper training for this kind of operation.

Best I get back to flight school then:(

[r44driver]

Night ships can be very challenging to all that do them, there is no doubt about that.
The point I am getting at is that for this type of operation, good training and correct procedures are the only things that will keep you safe.

[bellfest]

.....and a twin:O

Back to the topic though, if it is the Gilligan's Island operator that has taken over the operation then it will be run pretty well. From what I have seen and been told they provide an impressive MPT service with a huge focus on pilot convenience and comfort. It must be a point to ponder for the other lot there in sunny Mackay:ooh:

[MPT]

G'day bellfest,

I think that r44driver has hit the nail right on the head, that having the proper line training and having specific (and non negotiable) procedures in place is the only way to carry out this type of operation safely. One of the best way of doing this is to make every approach and takeoff the same, i.e. stabilised, constant angle approach and "on the clocks" takeoff each time, whether it's brilliant sunshine or pitch black with a single light source. It amuses the ship drivers no end that you don't look outside even during the day;)

Anyway, any more news regarding the "private" operation??

Cheers,

MPT

[FWRWATPLX2]

Fellow Rotor Heads

To set the record straight, after 11 days on the job as the new Chief Pilot, I gave Fat Bass turd, the Ship's Captain, an ultimatum, either comply with the Company Operations Manual and the Air Laws or send me home, by 16:30.

He blew up at me, telling me about his "commercial realities" I told him that I do not give a sh*t about his commercial realities, that if one of his young pilots bends metal in the middle of the night or kills himself, I will wear it for the rest of my career and the rest of my life, that we will all end up in court defending ourselves. He sent me home.

Standing up for what I believe in, for what is righteous, for my fellow Aviators, and the Air Laws cost me $90,000/Year that I needed. It was the first flying job I have had in more than three and a half years.

I turned him in to CASA, providing days, dates, times, aircraft, equipment, etc., including specific undeniable information to a CASA Rep who attended a Pilot Conference in that quaint small town. What he did with it, I do not know. I also wrote to Bruce Byron, CASA CEO.

I turned him in to the Safety Office at BHP Billiton, as well.

Afterwards, the Ship's Captain, slandered me, as his boastful words were overheard.

I did it to help the entire industry.

Did I do it for my own selfish gain, costing me a job, currency, and $90,000/Year?

I begged CASA not to find fault with any of the pilots, because the CEO is a social bully, etc. They were the finest bunch of pilots and guys I have ever associated with. I attribute that directly to the Chief Pilot I was to replace.

That is my story and I am sticking to it. It is verifiable . . .

[bellfest]

In that case, well done. It is a given that there will be times that you do have to balance commercial realities against the regs to achieve a sensible outcome but it is just not cricket when it is taken to such an extent. I think maybe a sleazy, grotty take away shop in Buttf##ksville surrounded by cochroaches and lard is a likely new adventure for our pie scoffing friend. I have never had the misfortune of this mans employ but I have had one of his marine pilots attempt to convince me of their commercial realities and how safe it is. Needless to say I wasn't convinced:= .
I have no doubt of the quality of the pilots IFR capabilities. I have mentioned before that I just couldn't see myself being very comfortable in that particular machine, that far out in certain conditions. Particularly with Obelix in the back when you have to consider the fact that he is sitting in the back licking his lips while contemplating eating the headset off your head:}
In respect to CASA, it really is the unfortunate truth that when it comes to that sort of thing they just could not manage a double seated s##thouse.

[FWRWATPLX2]

Fellow Aviators

I was invited out to dinner by the owner and Chief of Maintenance, my first night in town, when they denigrated the pilots. I made up my mind from that moment to either interview the pilots individually or go out to lunch or dinner with them to hear what they had to say. I stand 100% behind my previous and first ever PPRune posting, about those three pilots. Stand-up guys. I flew with each one. Being a former military pilot (snob), I had never flown with better civilian (trained) pilots, in my 27 years, as a pilot. Most importantly, each one was unselfish, dedicated, and decent, someone you wouldn't mind having as a son-in-law or brother-in-law, or best mate.

When I was beginning to appreciate what I had gotten myself into I started digging deeper.

The employer and Chief of Maintenance had an expired life raft in the BH206, 110nm offshore. And, the right Main Float had a leak (probably from improper packing). The owner and Chief were just lucky that nobody went for a swim.

The BH-206's Autopilot was a joke. Single Pilot IFR, at night, over water, hand flying . . . Not fun.

Another example, Captain's Altimeter, FO's Altimeter, and the RADAR Altimeter each read something very differently, at Cruise, but more importantly at 500 feet. I had no confidence that the aircraft would be at 500 feet, at night over that vast blackness, fortunately, I was just along for the ride, during the daylight.

The A109's Landing Gear Indicating System was not indicating correctly.

Its Fuel Pressure Gauge . . .

And, the list goes on.

Hey, I am no fan of the CAA, CASA, or FAA, but the regulations are there to protect us, from ourselves and unscrupulous operators, to protect aircraft assets and the public (flying with us or beneath the raining metal).

Just ask yourself, "Should I be doing this?" If the reply is, "No." Next ask yourself, "Is my career that I worked so hard for and invested so much money on and so many years, worth it?" If the answer is still, "No." Then, stand up for what is right. Stand up for yourself. Stand up for your fellow pilots. At the end of the day, if something bad happens, if it is just not your day, the owner/operator/AOC holder will divorce himself from you, and the ATSB investigation will read, "pilot error". Game over.

[bellfest]

Sounds like an unfortunate experience.
Employees of 99% of general aviation could come up with a list of the unserviceabilities of the aircraft they fly. Mind you most of them not to that extent. The reason that they don't air their thoughts is because they don't have a grudge as you have. As valid as your claims appear to be you should maybe consider not being so detailed in your explainations on a forum like pprune.
Though you well and truly have the right it just may not paint the right picture of your intentions and standards. I am sure that they are valid and it is a serious bone of contention for you ( as it would be for me) but you have done the right thing by submitting your information to the right people. To no evail it seems but nonetheless, everyone here is already aware of the shonkiness of the operation, the character of the individual and the demand on the pilots. Taking the piss out of the fact that he eats the equivelant weight of a Cape Class every month is a different story:E
Eventually he will get what is coming to him and it is very fortunate that the calibre of pilots has enabled an incident or should I say accident free record up to this point.

[FWRWATPLX2]

Let's be clear.

I harbour no grudge against anyone.

Aviation is in bad shape, in Australia. It is up to each of us to make improvements wherever possibile, for our future, even if it means facilitating taking out a shonky operator to the benefit of the operators whom do it right. That operator was dragging the entire MPT industry down to his level, undercutting everyone with his quasi-IFR, single pilot 206, when the likes of BHP Billiton and ship's captains/pilots could well afford to pay for a Multiengine IFR Multicrew Aircraft. If it was illegal to fly an IFR 206 single pilot 110nm offshore, wouldn't that translate into more Multiengine Aircraft and pilot jobs?

My intentions are to shed some light on the facts and truth. I was slandered.

My standards, should be everyone's standards.

If an aircraft came from the factory with instruments and equipment installed and there is no MEL or CDL, then it must be working or if deferral is allowed for, say 10 days, one should not expect to see the problem after two years, nor accept the explanation, "Oh, it's always been that way." Not good enough. If there is an MEL or CDL and an item is deferred, then the item must be placarded inop.

Bottom line, if you get ramp checked or you bend metal and live through it, can you defend yourself, before CASA, ATSB, a judge, or a victim's family?

If we all maintain the same high standards, then we would not have to prostitute ourselves and you wouldn't have your buddies trying to sharp shoot you, second guess you, or go out of their way to prove they are a better pilot than you. One standard.

[blade root]

FWRWATPLX2,

Good on you, you deserve a pat on the back for standing up for what you think is good and right.

MPT operations in this country is a complete joke. It is only luck that more people haven't been killed carrying out such op's.

Having done the job for some years you need everything on your side.

CASA and all MPT operators need to have a good hard look at themselves.

All the best in the future.

Blade root

[206av8]

FWRWATPLX2

That is very admirable, some of the actions you have taken.
Might I suggest that with 27 years as a pilot, you may have been a little naive to accept such an accountable position without doing your homework on the company.

And it looks to me that the actions you did take after being 'sent home' were the result of your personal frustrations.

But it is good to see people falling on their swords for the sake of the industry.

Well done, thanks.

[FWRWATPLX2]

206av8

Three and a half years no right-to-work status, during a ridiculously long drawn out process to obtain Permanent Residency, whilst fighting a pedantic obstructionist bureaucracy, such as DIMIA, left me without any savings. I spent my last $5,000 converting my overseas FW/RW ATPL. I couldn't afford to convert my Aircraft Mechanic Licence or Instrument Instructor Licence for Single and Multiengine Aeroplanes and Helicopters.

There are only 32,696 Pilots, in Australia: 6,103 ATPL Aeroplane and 433 ATPL Helicopter and I hold both from Australia and another country, plus ATPL Aeroplane from two others.

Once I gained PR, I could only get survival-type jobs. Motor Mechanic, Wrecking Yard Crew, Pumping Petrol, and the list goes on. I am sure former Ansett Flight Deck Crew can relate to what it means to survive, after reaching the top of one's game.

Knowing the Helicopter aviation-sector is the fastest growing in Australia and there is a skills shortage for Instrument Helicopter Instructors and Aircraft Mechanics:

Imagine, if you can, my level of frustration, being repeatedly told that I am "over-qualified", "too old", "can't afford to pay me what I am worth", better qualified applicants (when I have nearly 2,500 Hours of Multiengine IFR Helicopter flying Single Pilot) and every other bullsh*t excuse, and looking forward to a myriad of survival-type jobs.

Imagine, if you can, my relief and elation when the Ship's Captain offered me the position of Chief Pilot calling and emailing, repeatedly. I was suspicious, because I have never once been hunted down, during my 27 years, but . . .

What would you have done, in my position? What would anyone have done?

To clarify a misunderstanding: I had conversations and sought advice with just about everyone, including CASA, before I gave the Ship's Captain an ultimatum. It was not done out of spite or revenge, as you assert.

In the first instance, I had decided that if I would stay on the job, I would document everything, every conversation, create a paper trail and cover my assets. But, I soon realised that I would be fighting a losing battle with the Ship's Captain and his Maintenance Chief, when I presented them with each discovery I had made. As I heard all the lies and excuses from them, too. They had a bukllsh*t answer and excuse for everything. ["Cargo Nets?" "We cannot afford Cargo Nets." "CASA has ramp checked us and saw that we do not use a cargo net." "Nobody else uses them." Nobody makes them in Australia, they have to be ordered from overseas."] Hauling groceries piled and unrestrained on the rear bench seat of the 206 was just one issue. I met with the pilots to advise them of my decision to confront the CEO and give him an ultimatum. I followed that up with a one-on-one with the Ship's Captain and gave him my ultimatum.

When I returned home, I simply followed up on what I had earlier set in motion, before departing Mackay.

I would hardly call that falling on my sword.

I am not the bad guy in this, regardless how anyone paints it or tries to make themselves look good at my expense. I was there, along with three other pilots (like me), who I am confident would verify what actually happened. How long should I have kept my mouth shut and pretended that he was doing everything by the book? How long should I have defended that operation's "commercial realities" to the rest of the industry? If I hadn't, I would have been another tool used to undermine the entire MPT industry . . . costing jobs and wages, ultimately, across the board. Would you have more respect for me, then?

If an operator could get away with doing MPT in an R22, instead of a B206, I am sure he would. How uncomfortable would that be? A109, AS365N, B412, BK117, etc. appropriately equipped and crewed should be the standard.

I know I did the right thing for everyone involved, except maybe that operator. And, it cost me a lot of money, currency in a Multiengine helicopter, and my reputation has been sullied. It was the hardest decision I have ever made - on my own. I didn't even have the support of my loving wife, because we needed the money. Reading snide criticism in your posting, may I ask, would you have the integrity it took to make that kind of decision?

I flew as a 747-400 Captain from Stansted, UK to Bombay to Hong Kong, once upon a time. Our crew was suppose to get 4 hours sleep in Hong Kong, after 13 Hours and 56 minutes in the air, for a quick turn around to Delhi. Is that unsafe, or what?! How long do you suppose we had been awake, considering being awake hours before preflight, aircraft de-icing, weather, loading/unloading and fuelling delays, arrival in Hong Kong, car to to hotel, waiting for hotel check-in, etc.? It was up to me, then, too, to put a stop to the stupidity, stand up for my crew, for what is right, and to coerce management to comply with the Crew Rest regulations.

I am that kind of guy.

It is that level of common sense and integrity that has allowed me to have a 100% clean aviation safety record - no accidents, no incidents, no violations, in any country.

[206av8]

Sorry, you should have said.

[FWRWATPLX2]

206av8

I am not sure I know where you are coming from.

I do not believe I owe anyone an apology. Why? Rather, I feel Fat Bass turd owes me an apology.

As stated, though the truth may be manipulated, contrived, rumored, I am not the bad guy here. I was slandered.

That AOC Holder was dragging the entire industry down to his level. He was in noncompliance with his company operations manual and the regs. He was operating aircraft and bullying his pilots to fly ill equipped aircraft or aircraft that had gross maintenance deficiencies and long-standing deferrals -again, in non-compliance.

Would you like me to FAX you a copy of the expired Life Raft Certificate, for example? I have other stuff as well.

At the end of the day, as the Chief Pilot, if one of my pilots went for a swim and drown some dark stormy night, beyond reach of any rescue, then I am the guy who would wear it -and I knew I could not count on the superior skills of those pilots, indefinitely, nor count on the proper maintenance of those aircraft nor ever convince the Ship's Captain that he was doing the wrong thing.

I did what was necessary, for all concerned and I make no apologies for it.

If you are one of those on the outside of that operation looking in, then you are second-guessing, sharpshooting, playing Monday-morning quarterback, and are merely a ring-side boxer, with nothing to contribute to this discussion.

If you are one of those whom have contempt for the regulations or don't think they apply to you or think they are too expensive to comply with, then, your days are numbered.

Or, have I misread your forum postings?

[bellfest]

No one is knocking what you did, on the contrary they are patting you on the back. As I stated earlier your willingness to go into such detail of occurences on a public forum is probably not the best idea. That is your call though and you will paint the picture you want but it may not be the picture you intend.

I don't think that Fat Albert and the Crosby show are or were dragging the entire MPT industry down, particularly in that part of the world. The other operations have the machinery, the crew and the experience to be very proficient and professional at what they do and they do it well and have done for many years.

You are very right. Sh1t standards, sh1t machinery and a sh1t culture in a demanding environment is no place for anyone and you did well to get out. You were to the letter of the law and to the duty of your responsibility right to report what you did. A lot could, some would, some wouldn't and you did. Leave the details and the photocopies where they belong because as much as you sound like a good guy and a professional operator you are starting to come across as a bit of an ass. I am not saying you are by the way, I am saying that your posts could be interpreted in many ways.
By the way, why the %$#@ did you give up a LH seat in a 74 to do this:confused:

[206av8]

Bellfest,
Well said.

[FWRWATPLX2]

Bellfest

I appreciate your advice. From my earlier post:

Three and a half years no right-to-work status, during a ridiculously long drawn out process to obtain Permanent Residency, whilst fighting a pedantic obstructionist bureaucracy, such as DIMIA.

I met and married a sweet Aussie girl. I was flying on contract, overseas, because I had no right to work, here, IAW the provisions of my Bridging Visa A

To leave the country, to take a contract, traveling on a foreign passport, whether a long time Permanent Resident of Australia, or not, one needs a Bridging Visa B . . . to legally re-enter the country. The Visa is only valid for 90 Days.

(Many folks, whom are not citizens, but have lived here since childhood, when their parents immigrated, do not know that.) That is how that chap got deported to Serbia, by the way.

Back to my situation . . . DIMIA for two previous instances, issued the BVB across the counter, virtually no notice given. For my third Visa required, having given two weeks notice to DIMIA, it was issued one hour after my re-scheduled flight to London, where I would commence the contract and do re-current training. I was warned by my contracting agent, that if I had anymore visa problems . . . I haven't been called since, true to their word.

My Immigration Attorney advised me to stay and fight DIMIA. I am a citizen, now, but . . . just to gain PR, with right-to-work status, was a very long evolution, by itself. No right to work, couldn't go on the dole, could not obtain any benefits, of any kind, for two years, after PR was granted.

Again, all this is verifiable. In fact, my case made the news, in the paper and on the ABC, after I became a citizen, of course.

There should be no wonder that DIMIA has mistakenly deported citizens and detained them. Sycophants and minions serving themselves in a government bureaucracy.

I didn't give up flying 74s . . .

[kwikenz]

Well FWRWATPLX2, it is clear from the replies on this forum that in general you have the support of us all in sticking to your guns. However, as sad as it may be, we work in an industry very intolerant of, shall we say 'noisemakers'.
Dont get me wrong, I appluad your integrity and god knows the Fat Controller deserves whatever he gets, but you need to perhaps consider what good introducing your additional issues with other agencies etc could possible come of it.
Bellfest has a point, perhaps this forum is not the best place to be voicing your broader concerns given its ability to distort and derail the intent of its original postings.
Keep it short, simple and stick to the facts. The biggest favour you could do all of us is to give a calm record of your actions in the case anyone came to you to ask about the job rather than singing it from the rooftops. The management ethos and safety culture... flawed, the machines and maintenance.... inadequete and the training and checking almost non existant... youll not get any argument from anyone who knows anything about the place. As it happens, the outfit can no longer get interested pilots in part due to the efforts of you and those other 'three / four' you mentioned and has since, by all accounts, had to sell up! That damn wheel of karma can take a frustratingly long time to come 'round but it got this lot in the end.
Good to hear you have got one up on the Man / DIMIA. Cheers up, keep it quiet and simple and Im sure all of those invovled would like to buy you a congratulatory beer one day.
All the best mate.:ok:
In the meantime... anyone else got any remaining goss on the outfit in question?