Does Westjet have a pension plan?

[I hate cats]

I assume its some kind of defined contribution plan. Anyone have any details on employee / employer contributions etc?

Nobody thinks about this stuff until its too late to start saving.


PBS 'Frontline' takes a sobering look at pensions (http://acpilot.********.com/2006/06/pbs-frontline-takes-sobering-look-at.html)

[Slapshot]

WestJet does not have a Pension Plan offered to it's employees.
What WestJet does do is offer to match, up to 20% of your salary, your contribution to the Employee Share Purchase Plan. Some of the people here participate in the plan and when the shares vest in a year's time, they sell their position and diversify their holding's with some financial advice.
What I like is that you can be as aggressive or as cautious as you like. Some hold the shares in an RRSP and use that as their nest-egg for retirement. Some sell the portion that the company matches and let the other half ride. Some sell it all and let a Professional at Fidelity or other fund house manage their portfolio inside an RRSP.
It allows one to be as Risk Tolerant or Risk Adverse as one likes. I had worked at a place where 5% of my salary was deducted for a pension and was matched with the Company putting in 5%. I'm quite happy with WestJet matching my 20%. Or less as the case may be, you can decide what percentage you contribute...
With Pension's in the 'States being attacked at Delta, United and NorthWest I don't find being without a "Company Pension" a bad thing... I have some control over where and what my retirement funds are doing...
Cheers.

[Tilt]

Yes, you are on your own, for better of for worse. I as well was matched 5% at the old place. Now, of the matched 20%, I've chosen 7% to go to rrsp's which i diversify after the 1 year madatory hold. For me, being in control of the risk is preferable to hoping the company lives up to it's obligations when i retire. I think nowdays, even people with "pensions" invest their own money as well "just in case". cheers!

[I hate cats]

I think its possible to make the 20% match work for you if you have the discipline to start saving early and have some idea on how to put together an investment strategy that works for you. The onus is on you the employee to secure a good return on you retirement funds EARLY, in your twenties, to have a decent retirement income.

In my case I didnt have the expertise or foresight to think about retirement when I was 25 years old nor do I think most 25 year olds do today. But if you do then good on you and good luck going the self-directed pension route.

I think the most important advice is to start retirement planning early.

Look at this link to see what I mean:

Rich Man Poor Man (http://ww1.dowtheoryletters.com/DTLOL.nsf/htmlmedia/body_rich_man__poor_man.html)

[2FarNorth]

With WJ's salary 20% of bugger-all isn't enough to celebrate.

[Slapshot]

"With WJ's salary 20% of bugger-all isn't enough to celebrate."
Not quite up on the facts are we... You'll have to call one of your buddies here and get the real info on salary's.

Or read the papers...

TORONTO, June 9 /CNW/ - Negotiations between Air Canada and its pilots
have broken off after the company refused to offer any wage increases or
pension changes.
"We are disappointed with the lack of progress during the talks," says
Capt. Serge Beaulieu, spokesperson for the Air Canada Pilots Association
(ACPA). "We presented a very sound case for increasing the wages of pilots
that would not compromise the company's competitiveness, particularly in the domestic market."
To prove its case, Air Canada's pilots presented information to the
company from a copy of the WestJet pilots' employment agreement, showing evidence that WestJet
pilots are paid more than their counterparts at Air Canada, the nation's flagship, full-service carrier.
"WestJet pilots receive higher compensation and have better work rules in some areas than we
do at Air Canada," Beaulieu adds. "This information confirmed what we had believed all along
and counters Air Canada's assertion that pilot wages need to remain low to be competitive."
When taking into account wages, which includes flight pay, paid training,
stock options and a share purchase plan, a Captain flying a WestJet Boeing 737 earns approximately
13 per cent more than an Air Canada pilot flying Airbus 320. First officers at WestJet earn
approximately 20 per cent more. Internationally, Air Canada's pilot wages are lower when
compared with similar aircraft and airlines.

Air Canada and its pilots must now head to mediation, and potentially
arbitration, to settle the re-opener.
ACPA is the largest professional pilot group in Canada, representing
3,100 pilots who operate Air Canada's mainline fleet.

[royalterrace]

[QUOTE=2FarNorth]With WJ's salary 20% of bugger-all isn't enough to celebrate.[/QUOT

I think you have been 2FarNorth 2long...

[2FarNorth]

Sorry about that, I made the mistake of referring to the 85% of airline employees who are irrelevant. Not the pilots.

Incidentally, voluntary pension payments such as WJ's have been around for years in the States and have come under criticism from financial planners as inadequate as almost no one contributes enough voluntarily for their retirement.

Also, I'd be hard pressed to quote ACPA as impartial. They're in the business of presenting facts to suit their own purpose. Like all unions they are quick to point out wage disparities but don't compare AC's much superior pension plan with WJ's to reflect what the respective employers actually shell out at the end of the day. They also ignore that a WJ 737 captain has reached the top of his earning ability whereas an AC A320 captain still has a hope of getting into a larger a/c and earning more.

As I'm one of the great unwashed irrelevant ones I mentioned earlier I'll disappear back into the shadows and keep my place in future. If I can be more obsequious for you please let me know.

[Dockjock]

Incidentally, voluntary pension payments such as WJ's have been around for years in the States and have come under criticism from financial planners as inadequate as almost no one contributes enough voluntarily for their retirement.
So who's responsibility is it to provide for one's own retirement? A company (or series of companies), or one's self? Don't get me wrong I think AC's pension is far superior to WJ's "pension", but the reality is that with the very generous 20% matching the tools are definitely in place for WJ's employees to create a large capital pool for retirement, with the added benefit that all money accumulated can never be cancelled or taken away. If one chooses not to use the tools provided...

[Slapshot]

Sorry about that, I made the mistake of referring to the 85% of airline employees who are irrelevant. Not the pilots.
Incidentally, voluntary pension payments such as WJ's have been around for years in the States and have come under criticism from financial planners as inadequate as almost no one contributes enough voluntarily for their retirement.

You also made the mistake of speaking of something you know nothing about... You're "20% of bugger all" displays your ignorance...
20% of $100,000+ then the company adding a matching 20% is far from "Bugger All"...

"Also, I'd be hard pressed to quote ACPA as impartial. They're in the business of presenting facts to suit their own purpose. Like all unions they are quick to point out wage disparities but don't compare AC's much superior pension plan with WJ's to reflect what the respective employers actually shell out at the end of the day."

The key in your statement is - "Presenting Facts". What ACPA has done is present the facts as to how WestJet Pilots are paid. How that is an alternative and can be quite lucrative to those who participate. "Superior Pension Plan"? That's your opinion. Why don't we compare in 20 years and see who made the right decision... ;)

"They also ignore that a WJ 737 captain has reached the top of his earning ability whereas an AC A320 captain still has a hope of getting into a larger a/c and earning more."

What you are ignoring is that the WestJet Captain arrives in the left seat sooner, has more years earning at that rate, and can enjoy the 20% matched by the Company sooner, as opposed to waiting for the "golden pension".

This sentence speaks for itself. "...an AC A320 captain still has a hope of getting into a larger a/c and earning more."

I don't believe you are one of the great "unwashed", I don't think you had the information to make and informed opinion. That's what boards like this are best at - dispelling misconceptions and getting correct information.

That's why they make Chocolate and Vanilla. So everybody has a choice. Just don't be surprised when someone defends their choice...

[b612]

Oh boy I see the Teal team still has blinders on. ACPA got laughed out of the room for making that comparision to WJ. Daily min guarantee, perdiems, crew meals, reserve, and overall staffing levels are among the areas where Milton would love to rape the pilots down to the WJ contract level. Don't forget the 320 fleet at AC gave back 20% wage concession - something that I hope all pilots want corrected this wage reopener. Any money, even via shares, given by the company to the pilots at WJ is good, but for crying out loud stop selling this as the best way! If you could liquidate the shares immediately you'd have a point, but having to keep them in WJ shares for a year keeps your arse out in left field. ANYBODY putting 20% of their pretax income in investments does well, you guys are not special for doing this. Imagine for a moment somebody with a pension plan investing the difference into individual savings (ie: your pension contribution is 5% and you put an extra 15% into your own self directed investments). Now that is a capital pool. Why don't you guys fight for a pension plan anyways? And don't give me the bullsh:mad:t that Clive feeds you about pensions being a thing of the past. They only are if YOU don't fight for one. WJ folks, if you want to be part of the big leagues it's time to stand up and start acting the part. And Slapshot, sorry but you are living in the past. For a very brief period it was quick to skipper at WJ but no longer and never again. The reality of an entire career in the right seat at WJ arrived awhile ago.

[Slapshot]

"Oh boy I see the Teal team still has blinders on. ACPA got laughed out of the room for making that comparison to WJ. Daily min guarantee, per-diems, crew meals, reserve, and overall staffing levels are among the areas where Milton would love to rape the pilots down to the WJ contract level."

Well, let's see now... We have a daily minimum guarantee, per diems, we don't have crew meals (which most complain about anyway...) and oh yeah, we don't have Reserve... No one at WestJet is sitting around waiting for the phone to ring.

"Any money, even via shares, given by the company to the pilots at WJ is good, but for crying out loud stop selling this as the best way! If you could liquidate the shares immediately you'd have a point, but having to keep them in WJ shares for a year keeps your arse out in left field."


Why would you want to liquidate them immediately? Wouldn't you want to hold them for future growth? You've missed a basic point... After a year, you will always have access to that pool of shares. They are now continually vesting and you can sell them whenever you like... Some are doing that now, some are holding. Depends on your comfort level... Or need for toys...;)

"ANYBODY putting 20% of their pretax income in investments does well, you guys are not special for doing this. Imagine for a moment somebody with a pension plan investing the difference into individual savings (ie: your pension contribution is 5% and you put an extra 15% into your own self directed investments). Now that is a capital pool."

You are correct that putting money aside, but if you are using our model you are using bad figures... We can put 20% of our pretax salary in and the company matches that 20%. Now that is a pool of capital... It's a 100% return on our investment... To put it another way, the share price would have to drop by 40% for us to break even...

"Why don't you guys fight for a pension plan anyways?"

Why would we fight to replace a plan that works well for us? Replace a flexible, infinitely variable plan that the individual can tailor to their own unique circumstances and risk tolerance, for a rigid, narrow plan administered by some bureaucrat who knows nothing about my circumstances? Why would I tie that money up somewhere else at rates of return that would be more like employee contributing 5% with a company matching 5%...

Wouldn't seem to make sense now would it?

"And Slapshot, sorry but you are living in the past. For a very brief period it was quick to skipper at WJ but no longer and never again. The reality of an entire career in the right seat at WJ arrived awhile ago."

Well, that will be news to the guys that are doing Line-Indoc right now in the Left Seat after 3 years here... With 12 airplanes coming next year and 7 the year after that, I dare say that we'll be upgrading for a while... I guess it all depends on your definition of "quick to skipper"... As for an "entire career in the right seat"- not for someone who has the ability and the aptitude my friend... Not by a long shot.

[2FarNorth]

Y
The key in your statement is - "Presenting Facts".

I kind of had a feeling you'd zero in on that. Actually, the key was, " to suit their own purpose."

Facts can be twisted and misrepresented. ACPA is experienced at it. A simple example is in the same release where they complain about AC pilots being paid lower than overseas airlines.

Really? Who cares? If the pilots who feel ripped off want to go overseas and pay the cost of living in London, New York, or even Sydney, Australia, then let them go ahead. There's 50 guys waiting for their job. Saying you're paid less may be a "fact" but it does not tell the whole story.

I am aware of what an AC B737 pilot was earning just prior to AC disposing of the model. I also know the pilot pay of two other Canadian B737 operators very accurately.

I can also tell you the pay of WJ's AME's is about 10% - 20% below industry standard for an M2 AME. This is why I made the jab about 20% of bugger all.

Profit sharing and user-defined pensions are very nice but they don't make up for a salary too far behind industry standard in my opinion.

*****************************************************

Slapshot,

You should consider editing your post. Putting the pay for a company on a public website is not a good idea but I think you really should delete, or change, the paragraph that starts, "What you are ignoring..."

This paragraph could be construed as stating WJ's pilots are, compared to AC's on similar sized machines, less experienced than AC's.

Although you are defending what is obviously your employer WJ may not appreciate you stating this in public.

Taking shots on a forum is all in fun and games. Nobody should face a reprimand at work for a simple pastime.

[Slapshot]

"I can also tell you the pay of WJ's AME's is about 10% - 20% below industry standard for an M2 AME. This is why I made the jab about 20% of bugger all."

That would also be news to my AME friends that are quite happy with their compensation and tell me that they do better than "Industry Standard"...

"This paragraph could be construed as stating WJ's pilots are, compared to AC's on similar sized machines, less experienced than AC's."

While you could construe it that way, it does a major dis-service to our very talented pool of pilots that come from all walks of life and have experience flying all types of aircraft. They bring a great deal of knowledge, skill and experience to our operation. Skills they've brought from many parts of the world flying for many of the respected Airlines of the World... Skills they've demonstrated to our training dept. and to Transport Canada in the granting of their type rating's...

I think Air Canada tried that in an Ad campaign 4 - 5 years ago - "It's about Experience"...