Wannabe a pilot! (And I'm too damn lazy to do a search)

[scroggs]

I suspect that there are quite a few lurking Wannabes who haven't yet started down the road to becoming a professional pilot and are wondering how to go about it, and are hoping that all the answers are here on Pprune! Well, most of them are here, but sometimes it's difficult to collate it all into one place, and then you have to sort the good info from the rubbish.

So, you guys, take a look at this on the GAPAN website: So You Want To Be A Pilot (http://www.gapan.org/Papers/sywtbap.pdf) . It's a very well written book covering just about all you need to know, with contact details for further research.

Recommended!

For those who can't see the wood for the trees here on Pprune, the very first thread on this forum is a 'sticky' (it's always in the same place). It's called Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649). It contains a huge amount of valuable information about the process of getting a licence, the schools you might be considering, the job itself, and much, much more. You'll see it linked to many, many times in this thread because this thread is a collation of the many 'How do I become a pilot?' threads.

Please read carefully before you ask a question that has been answered many times before.

Scroggs

[email protected]

[Funkie]

Scroggs,

This is a truly comprehensive document covering many, if not all aspect of pilots in aviation. A credit to those who helped to produce it

Would it perhaps be worthwhile making this post a ‘sticky’ one, saving it from the deep realms of the wannabe’s forum……

Just a thought

Funkie :D

[Cool_Hand]

This thread has an excellent description of what to expect

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8817&highlight=gapan

(I hope it links)

[Jinkster]

I think the Royal Aeronautical Society have a similar publication. If its the one I am thinking there is a picture of Mike Bannister sat on the Concorde flight deck towards the front.

I can also highly recommend the book by Clive Hughes 'The guide to getting a CPL'

Jinkster

Enjoy the Gatbash Mr Scroggs?

[Air Apparent]

Given all the whingeing from the seasoned pilots on pprune (bad pay, poor rostering, long hours, high divorce rate, poorly valued by airlines...etc) why would anyone want to become a pilot?

[YYZ]

Because we've tried and failed at everything else & decided being a pilot will have to do:}

[FlyUK]

This is why....

http://www.tootell.plus.com/pprune/1.JPG
http://www.tootell.plus.com/pprune/2.jpg http://www.tootell.plus.com/pprune/3.JPG http://www.tootell.plus.com/pprune/4.JPG http://www.tootell.plus.com/pprune/5.JPG http://www.tootell.plus.com/pprune/6.JPG http://www.tootell.plus.com/pprune/7.JPG

Photos speak for themselves.... :ok:

[lockton9334]

Could not have said/shown it better myself FlyUK!

[Wodka]

Newsflash - every single career / industry has people moaning about certain aspects of that particular industry. If your doing something day in day out, lifestyle factors do become important and some things will pi$$ you off!

In terms of why? ... As FlyUK said, the photos speak for themselves and if you need more convincing go and work in an office - its grim :yuk:

[scroggs]

Actually, those photos show me what good fun is to be had flying light, aerobatic aircraft. They do nothing to demonstrate the benefits of being an airline pilot, which is a rather different matter - and with rather less glass to look out of!

Scroggs

[jonnoboy]

I'm looking for a little adivce from those who are 'in the game'.

I have a little over 100 hrs TT and am currently hour building to get my 100hrs P1 so I can start my CPL. My goal is commercial flying, although at this stage I'm not too concerned where i end up, passengers, freight, small or large aircraft, I don't mind.

I am unsure on the best route to get there; would it be wise to get an FI rating and build my hours up that way, or in this day and age, would i be able to get some work once I have the main ratings?

Also, what ratings would put me in good stead. I presume that a MEP and IR are absolutely necessary, but would doing ATPL ground exams be of benefit, and is there anything else?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I would also like to point out that I am trying to do this concurrently with working full time, as it all needs to be funded. This makes me think of another question, which is what sort of time frame should I give to this all (I'm 25 now).

Many thanks in advance,

Jonnoboy

[bad credit]

Have you thought about doing your ATPL subjects before you start the CPL. This way you dont have to sit the CPL exams. It also saves you money. Dont worry about FI ratings at the moment. Concentrate on passing the ATPL exams and then doing your CPL / ME IR and MCC.
At this point I would look at your options and how the airline market is looking.
A FI rating would now be a good way to hour build. Remember that the IR is only valid for a year so the cost of revalidation will need to be considered.
Hope this helps a bit. There will be plenty of other people out there giving different advice. This is my quick interpretation.

[Keygrip]

I have a little over 100 hrs TT and am currently hour building to get my 100hrs P1 so I can start my CPL
There is no 100hrsP1 requirement to start the course.

[jonnoboy]

OK, but there is a requirement to have 150hrs TT right? If so, I still need about 40 hrs, of which most will be P1 so will satisfy both requirements to ultimately enable the issuing of the CPL.

JB

[Keygrip]

Yep, 150 TT is correct - but then remember that if you do the course in the minimum 25 hours, take 2 hours for your flight test...you'll have 177 TT. Not enough to apply for the CPL. 200TT minimum.

Best deal? Get yourself to the 150TT - then start the course but, before you do the test, spend some of your extra P1 hours practising what you have been taught.

I'm assuming you've already passed all the written examinations, have a Class 1 JAA medical and, if going for a UK CAA issued CPL, have passed the UK Radio Telephony Licence examinations.

[High Wing Drifter]

Don't forget the required Night Qualification (5hrs).

[jonnoboy]

To be honest, I am at the beginning of the commercial route. I am yet to do the class 1 medical, or ground exams. I am currently working in Oz until the middle of the year, so my hour building is really just fun, cheap flying over beautiful scenery I'd be doing anyway.

I plan to start the CPL ground exams (after medical) on my return to the UK, although will be reading up on the topics while abroad as a member of my family has recently completed his CPL thus have books etc.

While doing these exams thorugh distance learning, i'll do my night rating and finish my aerobatics course (for fun!) and continue towards that 200TT figure with the hope of getting to an employable position in about 2 years from now. I'll have my work cut out as working as well but think it is possible.

This kinda brings me back to my original question, which is would i be better off doing the CPL and getting an FI rating to build my hours up without worrying about the ME and IR for the time being, or should I do it all and hope to get work with between 2-300 hours? Is this likely, or even possible?

Cheers,

JB

[Damienmk]

JB,

One thing to consider if you do choose the FI route to build hours, having only a CPL, is the expense of the ME/IR and then an MCC. As a FI you will earn barely enough to live, let alone to pay for your additional ratings.

If I was you the 1st thing I would do before anything else is to get a class 1 medical. Once you have that, then do the ATPL studies prior to carrying out any CPL/FI training. The ATPL exams are valid for 3 years after that date of your final exam pass by which time you must have built up sufficient time for your ATPL to become unfrozen. And for your ATPL to become unfrozen, you need a valid IR and ME Rating. Sound confusing? It does to me too!!!

In short I would advise

1. Class 1 medical
2. ATPL theory exams
3. Hour building
4. CPL
5. IR/ME
6. MCC
7. Job hunting

I would try and complete points 1 to 7 in as short a time frame as possible because the industry has a lot of movement going on at the moment and is forecast to expand, creating more jobs for pilots.

Whatever you decide, good luck. I've recently completed all of the above training, so I'm "current". PM me if you need more info.

DMK

[B2N2]

http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/photos/062104/captiveCarry%20inflight_lr.jpg


This is why....

http://members.aol.com/ricbnakk/photos/global.jpg



Real reason?
At school I spent my time looking out the window, got pretty good at it..decided to make it a career...:ok:

[jonnoboy]

Cheers DMK, sounds a good plan

[High Wing Drifter]

Jonno,

In addition cop a butchers at this: http://www.caa.co.uk/application.aspx?categoryid=33&pagetype=65&applicationid=11&mode=detail&id=1591

And I recommend getting a copy of this: http://www.flightstore.co.uk/the_guide_to_becoming_a_professional_pilot.pilot.books/use.id.10.item_id.369.dept.12.dept_l2.62.dept_l3.63/

[scroggs]

My cupboard door? :confused:

The 346 looks OK, but the 343 (particularly with C2 motors) is a bit weedy both in looks and performance.

B2N2 another Virgin aeroplane (the SpaceShipOne, not the Global Express)!:ok: You could have posted a pictue of it in the correct livery, though.


http://www.scaled.com/projects/tierone/gallery/albums/X-Prize_2/04_10_04_SpaceShipOne_X_Prize_2_under_whiteknight.jpg

Scroggs

[redsnail]

Pah, airlines.
This is much better and a lot more fun.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d143/reddo1/Atlantic%20crossing/CS-DRG.jpg

This is what I had to look at...
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d143/reddo1/Atlantic%20crossing/Atlanticoceancloud.jpg

[AIRWAY]

After seeing some of reddo's adventures in words and pictures in terms of biz/corporate flying i have to admit i quite like the idea even though i actually never thought of that kind of flying until quite recently... :ok:

I guess there is a big flying world out there apart from airlines.... :}

[Runaway Gun]

I just wish I had a handy photo of a coffee stained, blurry Approach Plate, bouncing around at 0350hrs local time, in poor light, with the Blonde Hostie's motel room number scrawled in the corner. :p

[scroggs]

Give me till tomorrow afternoon. By then I will have had several dozen coffees, applied the matchsticks to the eyelids, seen the sunrise at a godawful time of day, and may have several phone numbers that I'll never call.

New Year's party? No. I shall have flown the VS250 from London to Shanghai and I'll have missed all the celebrations!

Scroggs

[dlav]

oh dear, well happy new year anyway!:ok:

[FlyUK]

Scroggs, you know you love it really! :)

[portsharbourflyer]

Well if you have ever spent time in an aircraft stress / design office number crunching through wing stringers designs, you would probably appreciate that it is better to be bored flying aircraft than to be bored with engineering them.

[davidharris]

Hi All,

I am 21 years old, and was wondering how i go about becoming a pilot, what qualifications i need ect.

Any help would be great.

Many Thanks

[ultimatepro63]

right the qualifications you will need are

1.first get a class one medical certificate
2.private pilot
3.instrument rating
4.commercial certificate
5.build time so you can move on
6 air transport pilot certificate

then you might want to go on a multi crew course or maybe a type rating

and instead you could do a integrated course which includes all of the above for about £50,000

[scroggs]

Read this. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=134076) And this. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649)

Scroggs

[Nevs]

hi, im 17 from the uk doing three a-levels at the moment, then hopefully going on to a BA at uni in london for 3 years, when i come out of uni at 21 i hope to start in becoming a pilot. ive only got like 17 hours in ppl experience on 172's , thats not going to get me very far for sure.

what is the chance that i get sponsorship from an airline ??? i mean i will have very good qualifications.

ive been round OAT and cabair at cranfield, the problem is that its going to be very big debts for me, becuase i will have all my student loans then if i do get a loan for OAT or going modular then its going to become a mountain of debts.

any advice would help

thx very much

[arpansingla]

Hi,

I'm in a similar situation to yourself, in the lower sixth form and hoping to become a commercial pilot.

I have decided to skip uni because I feel its not something I would not enjoy and i feel i would be mature enough to start my flight training straight after my A Levels. It would also put me in more debt than i could possibly handle. But going to uni is a personal decision.

Having a degree is good for a back-up just in case your lose your medical or even if you get bored with aviation or decide its not something you want to do; you can pursue another career.
Its also useful to have a degree in terms of sponsorships because these schemes want to find individuals who have commitment, maturity and aptitude.

However there are no sponsorships around at the moment, the closest thing you can get is the CTC scheme however that requires you to take out a £60k bond and when you finish your training and start a job the salary is quite a bit lower that the standard direct entry pilot salary. The pass rate for this scheme is about 2%
Oxford and FTE had some airline-backed partial sponsorships in the summer which allowed you to take out an unsecured loan, the overall reduction in the costs was about £5k-ish i believe, so its nothing to hark on about.
You can try for the various scholarships and bursaries offered by the likes of GAPAN and the Air League. GAPAN offer one J N Somers scholarships which funds you from 0-fATPL but it would be incredibly hard to get.

I'm still considering whether to go modular or integrated, both schemes have their positives and negatives. Going modular would reduce the finance side of things heavily, whereas going integrated would (please dont shout at me folks) MOST PROBABLY increase my chances of employment.

I hope that helps you a little, if you have any more questions feel free to PM me as we're in the same boat!

Arpan

[Nevs]

hey thx for the reply, so there are no sponserships anymore , damm, man i cant wait to go to uni im going to do geography at either LSE or UCL at london which will be great. lucky thing is i was only 17 in august, so i will just be 18 by the time i start uni so when i come out of uni and ill still be young to start pilot training, if if if i do,

im gonna have like 10k in student loans, then pilot training debts, god why did they make it such a hard job to get into to. im lucky that i have a good background to my life, but i couldnt ask for 70k loan to my parents, as i saw someone else put it , its my dream, not theirs, i mean my education at senior schools got to be like worth 140k, everything is just money money money. who knows maybe after uni i wont want to be a pilot, but i doubt that but its still a possibilty.

anyone want to send me 70k via paypal?

[adwjenk]

Hey

I was in the same boat as you. Yet i decided to go straight into pilot training. Im currently 17 doing A-Levels, passed selection at my choosen intergrated school, and im set to start training end of July, when i will be 18 by just 28days.
I thought long and hard about uni but id spend 3 years of my life doing a course i enjoy but stil have the longing and earning to be sitting in that right hand seat!!
You wont have to start repaying your uni debts until your in employment, yet you will have to start to repay for training loan within 6 months of gaining your fATPL.
Also by starting 3 years later you will be 3 years behind on the seniority list for an airline which will mean 3 years longer to command and 3 years less experiance. But on the other hand you will still be young.
A degree will be a good backup, yet for me personaly the degree i would like to do, is highly speicilise in a field i would work in but it would not be my first choice.
Youve had a look at 2 schools in the UK, which do do part sponerships but you will still have to pay for the training. Also if you dont live up to there expecations you can be chopped.
If i where you id try OAT selection or Cabair or Jerez (which is currently free!!!!) or the GAPAN selection just to see if you have what it takes.

Best of luck any questions PM, the main decision is yours, its all down to you in the long run, you have to look at every angle because its proberly the biggest decison you will have to make and being young makes it that bit harder.

ADWJENK

[wbryce]

As many have said, the industry has changed since 9/11....so proper sponsorships are a thing of the past...the only proper sponsorship that I know off is the fugly one (air atlantique)....many sponsorships these days are ones where you sign a bond and pay your training fees back once employed as a pilot. Not really sponsorship imo.

When I was 18 (2yrs ago, so not long ago)...I was accepted into uni to do engineering but I decided not to go and continue working and pay for my flying training in a modular context, been doing it for 2 years now, and I predict in the next 2 years I should hopefully have completed my training...in the same time frame as my uni course would taken...and probably have the same amount of debt as I would have incurred at Uni.

I'm not saying dont go to uni, you should for the life time experience and education merits but I chose against it as the debt uni would bring after completion would only delay me further in my flying ambition.

[llien14]

Hi,

I was also in the same position as you at this stage last year.
What I ended up doing was finishing my A-Levels, while at the same time finishing off my PPL at my local Flying Club. At that time I also went to Gatwick to do the Class 1 Medical, just to make sure I could go ahead with Commercial Training. As it happened, I ended up going to University for the first Semester to do an Aeronautical Engineering Degree, whilst at the same time applying for any schemes that were going.
As things have worked out, I'm going to be starting in FTE in Jerez at the end of the month. I withdrew from University having only been required to pay the fees up until the point I left, so financially it wasn't as bad as I had anticipated for having a backup just in case.
Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

llien

[Draven]

G'day,

This might be of help : http://www.balpa.org.uk/intranet/How-to-bec/index.htm


Draven

[adwjenk]

Hey

I agree with wbryce.
I can only afford uni or flight training and not both so i went for the one i wanted the most.

[jonnoboy]

Book on order, cheers

JB

[lockton9334]

I was in a similar situation a few months back, having been accepted at the UCE to do Computer Networks & Security, I decided to defer for a year, basically to get a little life experience, including a trip to Canada. During this period my interest turned back to aviation (lost interest 9/11, up until then being an airline pilot was all I wanted to do) so I decided to look around a couple of FTO's.

I then passed selection at OAT and went onto achieve my Class 1 and am starting AP258 27th Jan :) I have left my deferred place at Uni in case all fails, however OAT's assessment has shown that you DO NOT have to go to Uni to become "mature enough" although for some people Uni might help and that knowledge above GCSE level is not necessary although A-Levels are preferred.

Realistically your looking at at least £20k of debt (perhaps even more after living in London) from going to Uni (not sure where you dreamed up £10k from??) By the time I have paid for APP, around £75k including accommodation and food etc + possibility of another £20k type rating another £20k of debt from Uni would be far too much.

So my advice would be if you think Uni really is necessary for you “to mature” and you can afford it then go, but at the end of the day it’s a lot of money to effectively waste (assuming you would want to go into management etc at a later stage) in deciding if being a pilot is what you want to be. I think if your heart is set on aviation, especially becoming an airline pilot, you have to be all or nothing, if you’re not absolutely sure, it’s a lot of money to waste for a non-transferable skill.

I welcome comments or corrections.

Jonathan

[Nevs]

thx for everyones replies been very useful,

i am defenitely going to uni for 3 years i am really looking forward to it actually, and my parents will pay most of it and all i need is to cover the cost of tution fees which is like 3k a year i think which i will just get a student loan with low interest to cover it, i know the financial situation because i have a bro and a sis at uni in london.

also i do plan to get a job at uni, also hopefully my parents will pay for me to finish off my ppl next summer.

i will probably decide later in time when i come out of uni, but if i go modular course doesnt it take alot longer to get a atpl , i always thought intergrated was much quicker because its all done in 18months, where as doing it modular you might tend to give up or not work as hard, i dont know really.

all i know is i want to become a pilot after a leave uni, also if i just fly like king airs or some turbo-props for a few years, do i need atpl? my flying knowledge has lapsed a bit in the past year, ive been concentrating on unis to much.

[Frank Furillo]

lockton9334 I don't mean to be a pessimist....but £75K is a H:mad: LL of a lot of money to borrow, even at your age. Also you are basing everything on passing first time, PPL, ATPL's, CPL, ME and IR!! That is a pretty tall order, not impossible but very hard.
The IR pass rate alone, is arround 1 in 3 first time pass, the resit is going to hit you for £1000. I got lucky, I passed mine 1st time.
I have no reason to believe that going intergrated will help your chances of getting a job, it's all down to marketing.
As somebody who spent most of his working life selling almost every make of car I think I might know a little bit about marketing a product.

It helps to have a realistic ammount of reserve money or finance just in case.
Modular or Intergrated it all costs lots of money, whatever you decide to do good luck.
FF

Nevs, just to let you know, I did my Modular in 2 years. I had 0 flight hours and worked part time during my Distance Learning.

[lockton9334]

Just for Frank's information, I have not had to borrow the full amount, just some, and it is through re-mortgage not a bank loan. With that amount, I have allowed £5k contingency. (Won't be doing PPL as going integrated at OAT, although have paid for, so far, 42hrs in Tomahawk out of Nottingham)

As for whether integrated helps you secure a job easier is debatable but perhaps a little research on hours required for Interview with, for example, BA Citiexpress - correct me if I'm wrong but you required 1000hrs with 50 in the last 12 Months on Modular, just 50hrs in the last 12 months if graduate from approved integrated course. It’s debatable in the fact that the extra expense over Modular is probably more than it would cost to hour build. Anyway, that is up to the individual involved and the finance available - lets not turn this into a Mod v Int debate - been there..done that!

Jonathan

[type1]

JB,

The ATPL exams are valid for 3 years after that date of your final exam pass by which time you must have built up sufficient time for your ATPL to become unfrozen. And for your ATPL to become unfrozen, you need a valid IR and ME Rating. Sound confusing? It does to me too!!!

DMK

I thought that on passing the final exam you had to complete the IR within 3 years and once you have the IR, the ATPL exams are then valid for 7 years.... is that right?

[booke23]

Thats correct type1.......I think the 3 year rule also applies to the issue of the CPL.

It'd be a bit of a fightening prospect if after your last ATPL exam pass you only had 3 years to get 1500 hrs......500 of much must be in a multi-engined, multi-crewed aircraft, 100 hrs PIC at night etc,etc!!

[Frank Furillo]

lockton9334, any proof to back up your information? I have friends who have got jobs with BACityexpress and guess what, they are Modular, with less than 1000 hours.
In fact according to that well known pilots job website, they require 1000 hours if you are not Type Rated. They do however have a deal with Jerez.
Somthing to keep in mind.

[jonnoboy]

That sounds a bit more reasonable! I'd be content if i was just getting into a right hand seat in 3 years!

For a matter of interest, how much more is there to the ATPL ground exams compared to the CPL exams? Also, if distant learning, how long should I expect it to take to complete all the exams?

JB

[lockton9334]

Like I said, need a thousand hours if not type rated which you would not be if you had just finished your modular or integrated training as implied within this thread.

Proof:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=188813

(I now notice they have changed their requirements from either 1000hrs, CAA/JAR full-time modular or integrated http://www.bacitiexpressjobs.com/ )

Is this, amongst others, a sign of airlines beginning to see a pilot shortage on "their charts" in the next few years, perhaps paid TR will be coming end of this year....then again, maybe they are starting to wake up a smell the coffee that there really is no difference??

Anyway, enough is enough!

Just out of interest, and not sounding like I'm being rude etc, Frank have you found employment and who with, my FI wants all the info he can get on Modular grads finding employment?

Thanks in advance for your help,

Jonathan

[Nevs]

hey, last question i need answering is, if i go to the U S of A,............... how much will the equivalent of a ATPL and OAT or Cabair cost in US dollars or if i go modular in the USA?

how much cheaper is the usa than the uk is what i want to know, to get an frozen atpl

[Frank Furillo]

Johnathan you wrote:for example, BA Citiexpress - correct me if I'm wrong but you required 1000hrs with 50 in the last 12 Months on Modular, just 50hrs in the last 12 months if graduate from approved integrated course then in a later post you say,Like I said, need a thousand hours if not type rated which you would not be if you had just finished your modular or integrated training as implied within this thread. I think you had better start proof reading what you write, I don't see anything about type rating in your first post??????????

And yes you are being rude when you ask...however I have not yet found that first job, I only just finished all my training in December and expect to gain employment sometime this year. Funny that your instuctor wants some info on other students, you don't start at Oxford until later this month. Hell Oxford even do modular now.
I have no interest whether you want to spend nearly double what I did to get that Blue Book, you know it does not mention where you went to school in it. If you really want to go to a good intergrated school. why did you not go to Jerez? I hope everything works out for you, I would not like to remortgage my house, just for my son or daughter could follow a career that there is NO JOB GUARANTEED with it, I would rather put 75K on Red at a Casino.

[lockton9334]

Not surprised with an attitude like that.

[Frank Furillo]

Nev's if you go to the USA
PPL you can take your FAA, its got only one written exam, you can then hourbuild as well over there I paid $85 per hour to hour build in a C150.
You only need a ICAO PPL to do you ATPL's etc
My CPL and ME were also done in the USA much cheaper than over here.
I finished my IR over here, it was good fun but the most expensive part. Try
this link to the CAA http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_FCL_APPROVEDFTOS.PDF
it has all the JAA approved training schools abroad in it. Good luck
Frank

BTW Lockton9334, What the hell does that mean, you p@@@ed me off what do you expect? Grow up son, I will not get into a row with you

[dlav]

ohhhh, handbags. Gotta love PPRuNe

[lockton9334]

Don't forget the eye liner as well lol

[Nevs]

ok, so what is the usa like 50% cheaper or what, im not really sure on the prices

[mcgoo]

well the fuels about one third the price of british fuel so that will give you an indication

[Frank Furillo]

Nevs all my pircing is 2 years old... but
FAA PPL inc Night Rating $5000, 100 Hours hour building $8500.
CPL and ME $4995 and $1995. None of this includes Accom, Exams etc, su say annother $8000 for that total $28490 or arround £16K (at $1.74 per £)
Ground School was £2000, plus exams and accom etc @ £2000, total £4000
Finally IR.... now that did cost arround £15K, with a first time pass.
So the total cost involved was arround £36000.00 Not bad really.
It included some retakes of ATPL's and a bit of overrun on CPL and IR.
If you want to know which schools I went to, PM me as I will not get into another row today.

Frank

[mad_jock]

There are still a couple of sponsorship deals out there.

The atlantic scheme.

And also the highland airways cadetship.

GAPAN have some grants and also the air league also have some grants available.

There is money out for chaps your age and who can be bothered to fill out all the forms

MJ

[Mark 1]

what qualifications i need ect.



Electro Convulsive Treatment is not (usually) required.
:\

[booke23]

Well there are 14 exams for ATPL and 9 for the CPL. So its going to be more work to get the ATPL's but if that is your eventual aim, I would bite the bullet and sit the ATPL's.

As for time required. If you work hard and get first time passes, you can do them all in about 9 months.

[mikealpharomeokilo]

If you haven't already done so, take a trial lesson at a flying school to see if flying agrees with you:eek:

[Kazakhstan]

For me it depending on the Airline, is you have the best office view in the world and unlike any other Chief Exec. it is forever changing. You are served tea, coffee and food by lovely girls. When you do get a night stop or even a few days you will allways have fun and when you've landed back at base you leave your work there and can return home for a nice glass of whiskey, wine or whatever you like and go to bed. Plus the feeling you get when you set T/O thrust is the best!

[scroggs]

I think the links I gave him frightened him off!

Scroggs

[wbryce]

I think the links I gave him frightened him off!
Scroggs

Maybe so!

Perhaps we should feed them the information in stages...otherwise, information overload disorder may become a new medical term in the world of professional 'wannabe' flying!

[stue]

Yeah, but it isnt that difficult really? Thw two threads that Scroggs linked to are at the top of the page?:p

[wordyuk]

Nevs,

Have you not considered going to university to do an aviation degree? Im am in my third year at the University of Leeds doing Aviation technology with pilot studies. I gained my PPL last year and it only cost me £2400 (the university pay the rest), this is around half of the normal price in the UK. I now have over 60 hours in the PA28 and the 152.

When I complete my degree in May I will be going straight to Jerez to hopefully gain my fATPL. This will mean I will have my student debts of around 12K and will then take out the huge loan needed to pay for the ATPL training. All in all, my total debts will amount up to around 80K, but at the end of the day, all I have ever wanted to do is be a pilot. Im sure alot of you will think I am being quite naive but I would rather be 80K in debt and be doing what iv always wanted to do than be in no debt doing another job!

It may seem that the aviation degree is quite specific, and you could not get many other jobs if you failed to become an airline pilot. However, the course includes large chunks of engineering, airline economics and aircraft maintenance, which means you are well qualified for a huge range of jobs within the aviation industry.

The best thing about it is that the rest of the modules I have taken are drawn directly from ATPL manuals, things like advanced navigation, flight procedures and planning, communications, crew resource management, advanced avionics, aircraft general knowledge, which im sure will make my ground studies in Jerez much easier.

Anyway, just thought id let you know as the degree would enable you to complete your PPL and get some hours in your log book.

[dlav]

Thats very cheap for a PPL :ok:

[Atreyu]

I have no interest whether you want to spend nearly double what I did to get that Blue Book, you know it does not mention where you went to school in it.

certainly doesn't say in the book, but maybe, just maybe, you MIGHT get asked at an interview? :eek:

I would not like to remortgage my house, just for my son or daughter could follow a career that there is NO JOB GUARANTEED with it, I would rather put 75K on Red at a Casino.

How many wannabes are glad you're not their parent! :E

Don't be :mad: off with people that have gone to do the Oxford APP, it's their choice. I would seriously consider the APP, you seem to believe where you train doesn't matter, but until you have a few thousand hours airline time, it DOES matter where you trained. 200 hour pilots with the ink drying on their CPL/IR are ten a penny my friend, if airlines are going to take a low hours pilot, they want the best they can get!

Back to the question, the only sponsorship programmes available in the UK as I know are, Air Atlantique, Atlantic Airlines, Highland Airways (Fully paid training, 4 year bond applies) FlyBE *cadetship* (approx £60,000 cost, guarenteed job I believe).

If your going to self fund, pick the best school your money can buy.

My two pennies

AT :cool:

[dlav]

Atreyu - No point in arguing this, but no doubt FF will come back with his usual rants and ravings :hmm:

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, theres no right/wrong answer. Choose a school that suits you and your budget.

If you dont like somebody else's choice in where they go to train - Mind your own :mad: business

[Atreyu]

well, im not familiar with FF. Just pitching in my opinions

AT :cool:

[Farrell]

Frank.......

Why did you even bother mate! :rolleyes:

Hope life is treating you well.

See you up there!

F

[Tight Slot]

hmmm, things may have changed. However - I did a mod course, ie ppl - night - multi and hour building in the states. Came back to the UK for the CPL/IR and did it in 11 months (zero to done) to a fATPL/IR, then after a few months searching - off to a Boeing. Modular CAN work guys - if it saves time and not to mention money, its worth a look at. Its you and the blue book on interview not just the name of the flight school.

If you're the right chap/lovely lady - it can happen

I wish you all the best of luck - it will happen

best regards,

TS

[Angels Zero]

I wish I had those links scroggs!!

Roll on 2 weeks time:ugh:

[LH2]

The link has changed. Follow http://www.gapan.org/Papers/sywtbap.pdf to the direct 27.3Mb download, or http://www.gapan.org/career/pilotadvice.htm to order a copy by post.

[bennyboi75]

i am very confused there are so many ways to become a pilot but which one is the best??????

[scroggs]

There is no 'best'. The right route for you depends on many factors. Read this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=134076), this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649) and this thread. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=149212) They should give you some ideas.

Scroggs

[smith]

Spend a fortune and try to avoid being ripped of, thats the bet way to become an airline pilot!!!

[BEagle]

SO YOU WANT TO BE A PILOT?

Both the Guild of Air Pilots and Navigators and the Royal Aeronautical Society receive many enquiries requesting advice and information about a career as a pilot. Captain Ralph Kohn, with the help of a committee of very experienced pilots has produced an informative booklet on the subject. This covers almost all aspects, from the qualities required of a potential applicant, through the selection process and training for both military and civilian pilots.

This publication has been updated for 2006 and is available from the Guild Offices. To obtain a copy send a stamped, self addressed A4 size envelope. Stamps required are 79p for First Class post, 58p for 2nd Class post). It is also available to download from http://www.gapan.org/Papers/sywtbap.pdf .
However this is currently a very large pdf file (27mbs); it will hopefully be available as a smaller file in the near future.

Send your request to

GAPAN
Cobham House
9 Warwick Court
Gray's Inn
London WC1R 5DJ

Please mark the envelope with "I want to be a pilot"

[ANDRE25i]

There should be no need to be "confused".
Good luck

[newwings737]

I am very interested in becoming a pilot, I have read the forums but most people seem to be already aware of the basic routes in to the industry, so its not discussed much on these pages.Could somebody give me a run down of all the options available. ie where, when , how much. Thanks guys.

[Piltdown Man]

The best route is to select exceedingly rich parents to begin with and start at age 18 or so. Then, your only problem is how to enjoy life when you have been doing the job for 10 years.

[r44flyer]

Where - an arguable point
When - whenever
How much - a lot

Seriously though, all the info is here, just search a bit more.

[KandiFloss]

There are two general ways of gaining your commercial pilots licence;

Integrated route or Modular route.

1) Integrated Training involves around a year or more of intense study to gain your commercial pilots licence. You study for your PPL (Private Pilot's Licence), IMC (Instrument Meteorological Conditions) rating, Night rating. Then you will complete your studies for your ATPL (AirLine Transport Pilots Licence) theory exams. After having done this you will study for your CPL (Commercial Pilots Licence), MER (Multi-Engine Rating) and finally your IR (Instrument rating). Oh yes, you will also need to complete 100 hours flying between your PPL and ATPL training. Oh and I also forgot to mention the exams, which you will also have to fork out for, which range from about £55 each for the ATPL exams to £1350 for the Instrument rating. (Based on Oxford Aviation Training 2005 prices).

This, depending upon where you train will cost around £60,000.:bored:

However, there is a cheaper option.:D

2) Modular Training involves you gaining your PPL first, then your IMC rating, Night rating, etc. You can study for these in the UK or you can study for these in the states where the flying is cheaper (although some people may argue about the merits of USA flying training - but that's where I want to do my initial training).

Having completed this training you can then study for your ATPL exams either by distance learning (around a year) or you can go to a training provider such as Oxford to study for the exams in around 20 weeks. You will also have to complete 100 hours private flying before you go on to study for your CPL, MER and IR.

This will cost around £30,000.

But don't quote me, as I haven't begun my training yet myself, but this is what I have researched so far.

Hope this helps?

There are quite a few training providers in the UK, such as Oxford, Bristol, but to name a few. If you do a search of 'ATPL training UK' on the internet, it will bring up lots of options for you. You don't necessarily have to study at a top training provider who ask for large sums of money, as based upon my husband's words (who has completed his studies and is now flying commercially) no amount of money will guarantee you a job in avaition (much to my depression)!

[scroggs]

Read the links I posted at the beginning of this thread. They are the three 'sticky' topics at the top of the two Wannabes forums. Within them is pretty much all the information you need.

Scroggs

[Bruno Silva]

Hi everyone,
to be honest I don´t really know how to start this thread, I just know I feel down cause I´m starting to realize that the industry I´ve always wanted to join ( as a Pilot) isn´t as reachable as I thought.
I want to be a pilot since I can remember, I don´t really know why cause I don´t have anyone in the family who has been in the flying industry or something like that, I just know that since I was a kid I made my father take me to the nearest airport (which is quite far) to watch those big birds...
Unfortunely I wasn´t born in a rich family so although everyone knew what little Bruno wanted for his life, no one really toke it serious, so it´s been me alone all this years dreaming and researching on how to become a Commercial Pilot. I managed to start working and studying to save money to get my licenses although I wasn´t aware of how much money it would take :O

Anyway I managed to save something like 12 000 euros, so this year, I got in university and decided to start my PPL aswell... And this is exactly the problem, now that I´ve started I realized how hard it is to get anywhere in this industry, specially when you are not rich and don´t know "influent" people in it ( which is me):(
I never thought I would stop loving aviation but to be honest I´m starting to regreat having started my PPL cause it´s going to take almost all my savings and it´s almost a guarantee I won´t be flying any Airbus or Boeing for a living...
I see now that I was a bit foolish to start something I couldn´t finish...

So, if anyone has experienced similar difficulties and managed to get somewhere, I would love to hear about it. Cause right now I just think it was a terrible mistake to start the PPL and spend all my money in vain...
Thank you all and good luck to whatever you do!:ok:

[GusHoneybun]

Bruno,

The problem of becoming a pilot is that it takes up your life. All we do is eat, sleep and poop aviation. Once it's in your blood I'm afraid you can't go back.
Personally, I couldn't afford to be a pilot when I was your age. I had to work a really crappy IT job for 7 years before I had enough saved to pay for my training. Mind you, once I had the necessary cash I was out the door quicker than a scolded cat. What kept me going through the training was that I was determined not to have to go back to IT.
Anyway, what I'm trying to get at in a roundabout way is that it's not easy. You will have days when you wonder what on earth you are wasting you money for. This whole website is full of people who have gone through the mill, had the same questions you have right now and ended up flying round the skies for a living.

[kerrinator]

Its certainly not easy, but not impossible... One step at a time!
After I finished my ppl I didnt have much money either. One day something just clicked. So I stopped the bar thing bla bla, and I started working my ass off (a lot of overtime), I became really, and I mean really stingy (no drinking was a number one), and well Im now doing the exams and hopefully soon enough I will have most of the money I need, to finish the flying, side of things.
I wish I had the money to do the whole thing at once, and not have to work at the same time, but its life. I guess!!!
It doesnt matter how long it takes. Im sure if that is what you want, you will get it!:ok:

[powdermonkey]

I am not rich, did my PPL, just finishing ATPL's, am 37 and will have blown EVERY cent I have and then some to become a pilot.........with no guarantees. HArdest yet best time I have ever had....moments of Joy and moments of sheer frustration ( inc almost being in tears during ATPLs, thinking I was not smart enough for it all ) etc etc etc and every emotion possible in between, but I'm still here and going through iy everyday. Will I make it, probably....maybe not, but I'll give it my best shot! Getting your PPL was not a mistake, if you choose to go on, great, if not getting it is still a MAJOR achievemnt and somthing to be very proud of. If you want it badly enough, keep going and best of luck!!!:ok:

[Bruno Silva]

Thanx everyone!!
We´ll see how it goes...

Best of luck to you all :ok:

[EchoMike]

Bruno,

Don't give up - anything worth achieving is worth struggling for.

Yes, it costs money. Yes, it takes time and effort. Yes, there are going to be times when you say "phooey, I'm going to take up surfing!"

Stick with it - it is worth it 10,000 times over.

You say you have saved 12,000 Euros and don't think that's enough - for a PPL (which is the first, biggest and most vital step) it definitely is. There are any number of flight schools, domestic and overseas, where you can get the PPL for way less than that.

As GusHoneybun said (more or less) once the aviation bug bites, you're in it for life. Personally, I consider aviation a disease for which I hope there is no cure.

Most important is this - ask yourself if some day, far in the future when you are an old, old man, do you want to say to yourself "I wish I had gotten my pilot's license back when I still could."? Go out there and do it - whatever it takes it is worth it.

Best Regards,

EchoMike (PPL since 1979)

[AIRWAY]

Once it's in your blood I'm afraid you can't go back.

How true is this!!!

Just go ahead with your PPL it is worth it you will see, and at the end just evaluate your options and take it from there. :ok: If you think it is hard now just wait until the latter stages of training, and the financial burden.

Persistance and willingness are key factors if one wants to persue a career in aviation which in itself presents many challenges along the way.

Like a previous member said, one step at the time, you can't climb 5 steps at once, only one by one.

Think Positive, where there is a will there is a way.

PS - Let's hope A320Rider doesn't read this. :E

[bishop99]

Hi,

Everyone has doubts if they can do it or not. A ppl is an excellent start to your training, and then when you have the money gradually start doing more: hrs building, qualifications, etc, and before you know it you will have a FAPTL and be ready to get a job, in the industry you have always wanted to work in.

Although the path there will not be easy, it is possible, many people have done it, and are now in successful jobs. It may take 3-4yrs, but that is such a short period of time when you consider you will be in the industy for many more years!!

Live Your Dreams, because one day you may look back and regret you didnt.

All the best and good luck.

[hduk]

Does anyone out there know if such a thing exists. Showing you how to get from ppl or even ab initio through to atpl. Maybe showing you all the options avaliable along the way?
If it doesn't exist how many of you fellow pilots think it would be a good idea?

[Farrell]

There was a guy on here last year who was writing a series of "How To...." books - one of them was how to identify 100 trees in a weekend or something insane like that.

He was also planning on doing one on how to take the controls of a jet plane should the crew become incapacitated.....hence him getting laughed off this forum.

Maybe he's managed to publish it though - and might be interested in your idea. ;)

[smith]

There are a few books available, "Guide to becoming an Airline Pilot" by Clive Hughes and "Zero to FO". Don't know if these are the exact titles and authors as I am not at home at the moment and cant check, and the second one I don't know if it is still available (the big red one), they contain all the information you need. Unfortunately I dont know of any DVD that outlines the process.

[maxdrypower]

I believe if you log onto bristol gs site they are offering a free cd rom about becoming a professional pilot , Not seen it not spoken to anyone who has but have a look its on their homepage let us know

[jamielatham]

Yea, just give em a ring...


"If you'd like to talk to us about your training requirements, or order our free CD-ROM guide to becoming a professional pilot, please call Noush or Jaqueline on +44 (0)1934 744944."

Best of luck...

Jay :ok:

[andrew_greiss]

Hello all,
I am just seeking a bit of advice. Currently, I'm completing a master's degree in Aerospace Engineering however I would like to take up a career as a commercial airline pilot. Having done previous flying at both a private school of flying and in the RAF (univeristies air squadron), I believe this will help me as a starting point.

I am asking as to the best route to make it as a pilot, whether to self-sponsor yourself (really expensive!) or to try and get a sponsorship. Ideally in the future I's wish to be a pilot for an airline such as BA or Emirates.

If anyone has some good advice as to the best way to get there, please let me know. Thanks again, I appreciate the help.

[low n' slow]

Hi!
A sponsorship is ofcourse the best way to go as it saves your wallet for later expenses. However, I guess finding a sponsorship programme is as hard as finding a job later on...
My advice is to seek up and get information on the various available schools and then choose the one with best combination of quality and price.
BFSAA I feel has provided me with a good foundation to base the rest of my career on, however they are not the cheapest option for anyone except for the ones accepted into the Swedish government sponsorscheme.
Dont wait for a sponsorship! Possibly start out with a PPL and start building time by towing gliders or such. Just to get yourself going. Whilst doing this, try to figure out where to go next in regards to ME+IR and the ATP theory. You also need to upgrade your PPL to a CPL to get a job and this requires additional training as I guess you've understood.
Just dont wait for something to turn up at your doorstep, you need to be actively searching all the time. Time waiting is time that you should have spent making your self attractive for the employers.
And just to clarify: A job with Emirates or BA is from starting point far far away. If you get a job, its more likely to be with a less glamourous airline such as Ryan or similar. These are the positions that open up first to low houred applicants and although you might be flying jets, there is allways a better contract to have for which you have to work some time to get.
Its a fairly long way. My time from starting point to first employment was roughly 6 years. Many have probably made it in a shorter timespan, but there are certainly some guys out there with a longer timespan from start to employment...

Best of luck and just remeber to be actively looking.
/ LnS

[scroggs]

As Mike says, reading the Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649) would be a damn good start. Don't you think? :hmm:

Scroggs

[beamer]

If you are doing a masters in Aerospace Engineering I'm sure you can do an awful lot better than joining the airline treadmill and still have plenty of dosh available for some fun flying !

Seriously though - talk to some people who actually do the job - at least that way you you can find the pro's (several) and the con's (many) associated with this trade.

[b8z]

Hey

i want to become a pilot but i have no GCSE's
but in september im going to college to do my GCSE's
and i wanted to know how many GCSE's i needed and A-Levels
and what will be the best subjects to take
im 19yrs of age and do you think it would be to late to take them now?

Thanks Dan Bates

[Getoutofmygalley]

It's never too late to take your GCSE's or A Levels. Even if you don't make it to your goal of becoming a pilot, you will stand a far better chance of getting a decent job with your exam qualifications than without :)

And I know of pilot's who have started flying relatively late in their lives (in their 30's) so you have plenty of years ahead of you yet! :ok:

[AIRWAY]

Hi Dan,

Check BALPA's website i believe they have a guide to becoming a pilot might be worth reading.

Regarding GCSE's and A-levels i do not believe there is a set minimum unless you go for a sponsorship.

:ok:

[scroggs]

Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649)

Scroggs

[newbie008]

Hi all, just some advice needed. I really want to become a pilot, but not sure the best way to go about it. Id love to do an integrated at oxford but cannot afford it. Im looking at doing my ppl at bournemouth and then doing the waypoint course at oxford. Im worried my ppl might take up to a year and then hour building the same..Im 23 but want to get cracking asap. What do people suggest about money. Id need to get £30000 for oxford, but would need to get an unsecured loan. Have many done this?? Help much appreciated

[B200Drvr]

Newbie,
With that GBP 30 K you could go to a school in Florida on a 2 year visa, do your FAA PPL,Comm,Multi IR, CFIMEII. Work as an instructor for the remainder of your 2 years, complete all your permissable JAR stuff at the SAME school while doing instruction and come home with 1600+ multi hours.
There is NO school in the UK that will offer you the same.
Any more than 4 months is to long for a PPL if you are going all the way to ATPL on a loan. The US is not as cr@p as you might think, Thousands of foreign pilots graduate from their schools every year and go on to have successful aviation careers, I know cause I am one of them.
Good Luck

[newbie008]

thanks for the advice, why do you say anymore than 4 months is too long for a ppl? I wouldnt be using a loan for this, I would be working and doing my ppl as i go. I would then use the loan to fund oxford for my atpls cpl etc..

[Coq Sportif]

Have to agree with most of B200Drvr. Personally think best for you to get the Bristol notes, get good grades on the ground school then go out to the US get ppl, then get some good time on the twin then come back home and do your twin CPL and IR ASAP.
You dont have to go to the US and do the above, look around at other places in the world like S africa(think even N greece). If you do do your twin in the UK make sure the provider you use can guarantee you X amount of flights a week. Most important make sure they have no hint of a "iffy" reputation and have a decent address book of contacts for when you get out. Do the above and you could finish within a year, though not sure of any involved costs to quote at you- soz.

TOP TIP-- NEVER trust the marketing, look and ask for the facts only, if they don't give you those worry.

Either way wish you the best of luck.:ok:

[B200Drvr]

Newbie,
If you take along time to get your PPL you spend more, if you do an immersion course it is usually a fixed cost, it is simply a case of 2 steps forward 1 step back. If you fly 3 hours on weekends it will take you more than 60 hours, if you fly everyday for a month, 45 hours is a reality. Can you absorb all that info in a month? how dedicated are u?
Look at SA, the flying is good, but I recommend the US as that is what I have done, plus you will end up with a FAA Comm or ATP as an addition.

[potkettleblack]

A £30k loan would seem a little on the low side these days and even if you did manage to cover all of the flying training with that then there wouldn't be any left for living costs. Most of the flying schools like BCFT, PAT, Airways etc have lists on the web of the costs involved in doing the various licences and ratings. Add onto this the cost of the 14 ATPL's plus exam fees and the cost of the PPL in the UK at say £5-6k plus all of the stuff you will need to fill into your flight bag and the £30k seems light.

Having said that £30k is light, then the next issue is how you would get an unsecured loan of any significance in anycase. As I understand it HSBC who used to specifically provide loans to budding aviators have now ceased doing this. Other financial institutions might be willing to finance you however they are likely to want security on either your home or in the absence of that your parents. All in all its getting a lot harder to get finance these days.

You mentioned in your post that you were looking at your PPL taking a year. There are many ways to skin a cat and get into aviation. You could for instance do a PPL in the US over 3-4 weeks, then come back get some work, hour build in your spare time (buy a PFA category aircraft or get into a low cost group to keep the costs down - search in private flying for loads of information on this). At the same time study towards the ATPL exams via distance learning. Hopefully from the work you will save enough over the 12-18 months or so that it takes to get the PPL and ATPL's out of the way and then you can quit the job or take a sabbatical and go fulltime at the ME/CPL/IR.

[andrewyun]

I am new to this field and looking for a proper direction. I've been looking through the the forum and see that there are many tests to take. Do I need to take all the tests? or ones specific to what type of pilot I want to be? What are the basic tests, certificates, and licenses do I need to become a Jumbo Jet Commercial Pilot? This is my first long term goal. How is the job market for this? What other types of pilots are there and respectively what are the avg salaries? I live in New York, what are good aviation schools? Are aviation schools expensive? What are the requirements to get into these schools? Does the schooling prepare for the pilot exams? How is the job market for pilots? I want to know how I will be most prepared in a career as a commerical pilot?

All answers and suggestions will be appreciated. thank you

[flyboyike]

Hi and Welcome! Nice to see another American on this site. Since you're in Long Island, I have two schools to recommend to you. One is AirEast at Republic Airport in Farmingdale, the other is Panorama Flight Service in White Plains. The former is, of course, a lot closer. My second suggestion to you is to join the AOPA. They have TONS of resources for new pilots. Start here:

http://www.aopa.org/learntofly/startfly/

PM me with any questions.

[andrewyun]

once i get my license, how do I build my flight hours? do i need to rent out my own plane everytime I want to hourbuild?

[flyboyike]

once i get my license, how do I build my flight hours? do i need to rent out my own plane everytime I want to hourbuild?

You can rent, you can join a flying club or you can maybe even buy yourself something small, like a C150 or a Piper Cub or something of that sort or even a slightly bigger and more powerful Piper Warrior. You can have a pretty decent flying airplane for $30-40K, which is what an SUV would run.

Here's an example:

http://www.controller.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?OHID=1103440&guid=2BCA4EAE3B5146F4A30549DFAFF332BA

[the_aviator]

In order to become a pilot you need to gain a CPL (commercial pilots license) with IR (intrument rating). This can take as little as 14 months (or maybe less depending on weather) to achieve if you decide to go down the full time study route (AKA integrated course). The CPL/IR course contains ground school and flying training. Once you have your CPL/IR you need to get a job and gain 1500 hours of flying before you can get your ATPL (Air Transport Pilot License), which will be achieved as you fly with a commercial/cargo airline.

As with any job there are peaks and troughs, and aviation seems to change quicker than most. At the end of the day you just have to give it your best shot and rely on a bit of luck to land that first job. The type of person you are will affect how employable you are, along with the grades you can achieve while completing the course.

I am about to begin an Integrated course here in the UK (begins in May, CABAIR), so I am really looking forward to the challenges that are coming my way. Just to give you an idea of work involved, the course involves 800 hours in the classroom and 200 hours flying. There are alot of rules in aviation! :E

In terms of starting salary you will have to start at the bottom. A job in a cargo airline (turbo prop) can be around £25-30,000, moving onto jets 30-40,000. Once you become a Captain then you will start seeing much higher salaries, but don't be fooled you will have to work for it! I know that salaries over £100,000 are not unsual for pilots.

p.s. The above is correct for the UK, and I assume it is similar for the US.

[scroggs]

Please do not give 'advice' when you do not know of what you speak. FAA requirements for their ATPL are quite different from those that apply within the UK/JAA legislative area. There is little point in giving prices for aircraft hire in UK to a wannbe who lives in the USA, where prices for aircraft hire are a great deal cheaper. There is no conceivable reason why a US cirtizen would wish to conduct any part of their training in UK, or anywhere else outside the USA.

WBryce if you advertise your website again, you will lose your posting privileges here.

Andrewyun As you have by now gathered, I'm sure, this forum is primarily for students of the JAA licencing system, i.e. Europe. The FAA (US) system is different and advice is best sought elsewhere. A start could be the North America forum here on Pprune, but I recommend you have a look for US-based forums. However, you might want to keep an eye on this thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=222914), which also involves a US wannabe.

Scroggs

[poss]

I want to be an airline pilot and next year after i finish my a levels i am thinking of either going to OAT or CTC Aviation group on the CTC wings course, depending which has better finance plans available and how i find the places when i go to visit them.
Now thinking really far ahead (i like to have a plan in mind lol) what are the chances of finding a job after just completing a full intensive flight course that takes you from the basics to advanced levels? Just so you can answer the question at hand, ill tell you a bit about myself as no doubt it will also depend on who i am as to what jobs are offered to me.
When i set my mind to something i put a huge amount of effort into it, i stick at it until i have completed it. i always work hard at the things i do (whats the point in wasting the time that is give) got good GCSE results, currently my A level course (worth 3 A levels) is going very well, upto now i have had distinction (A) in all of my course work (about 11 pieces at this moment in time). Personallity wise im easy going, friendly, enjoy a lot of humour, have a lot of respect for people.
I will no doubt be in so much debt that i will need to get a job quite soon, even though no matter what i am taking the risk of being in debt to fulfill my pilot dreams.
Anyway would like to know so that im prepared for the future, thanks for any information you can give to me.
Aaron

[LB1985]

since i can remember i have been very near top of my classes in everything, my GCSE results were fantastic with 8 B's and 3 C's.
You forgot to add modesty to your list of character traits :E

[eoincarey]

yes we do seem to be getting rather more than our fair share of, er, confident young chappies on here as of late. What ever happened to that Silverwings guy who really was convinced he was God's gift?

Mate, a few serious replies will come along soon, but best thing to do would be to read the Sticky's (wherever they are, Mods will point you in the right direction). They'll more or less answer your questions.

But I would consider eating a bit more of that humble pie

ETC

[captwannabe]

CTC have a very stringent selection process, and I wouldn't get my hopes up about being successful in getting a place with them (that's not to say don't give up before the fight, by all means go for it, and that applies to everything). OAT is the most expensive FTO, and therefore is financially riskier. But they do include a JOC in their course, something which most schools do not.

Jobs are tough to get. It really depends on the state of the industry when you are qualified. You could be the best pilot in the world and unable to get a job.

Being good at the bookwork will be an good advantage for the writtens. BTW "My GCSE results were fantastic" sounds a bit cocky. People who weren't the best at school can and will do just as well as long as they put in the hard work. Any successful pilot has worked hard to succeed in training and get a job.

Getting into €100k debt at the age of 18/19 isn't commitment. It is taking a huge risk and foolish if you don't realise it. People can train for a fATPL at a much lower cost and risk, but they are as committed/determined as anyone else, and will have a lot less to pay back when they get jobs.

From the sound of your post, you seriously need to research this career, and consider all possible training options. Also, there are a lot of university courses that offer pilot studies along with a respectable degree, and there are opportunities to join University Air Squadrons. No school can guarantee you will get a job, no matter how much money you spend.

[scroggs]

Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649)

Scroggs

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Don't be too hard on him, at least he didn't start a thread to advertise his own somewhat random business interests, as did our late friend silverwings. Good luck with the A levels poss.

[poss]

I'm sorry for my seemingly big headedness i just wanted to show how much i will work at something and how enthusiastic i am, guess i took it a bit (very) to far. The thing with my GCSE results is, i was very afraid of the outcome and practically danced on the spot when i got them back lol. i think its best if i modify the post. Thanks a lot for the support bitmorerightrudder <3
Thanks for the replys i have been reading into the link scroggs gave me and it answered my question 10x's over i see now it isnt a case of graduate and get a job within a year, it takes time and luck in a lot of cases. i will put that time in so i finally get to where i want to be.
With the debt thing it is a huge risk, but as i want to be an ALP its one that i want to take, which sometime throughout the courses i go on will no doubt keep me awake at night with worry.

[aviator001]

if i do an integrated course and get a frozen atpl with 200 hours does this mean that i will be qualified to be a first officer,using my cpl, until such time as i obtain 1500 hours and then my atpl becomes unfrozen??!!

[Rapidfire465]

What's it take to become a pilot? Are there like ways to prepare (flight sims etc)?? I'm just wondering because its a possible career path i'm interested in.

[mcgoo]

try here!

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649

[Fancy Navigator]

Be ready to fork out a lot of money and then have no job....!
Have fun.... :{

[Rapidfire465]

I've heard that going into the Air Force can provide great career opportunities even after you join..but what kind of certificates and what level of experience is needed for this? Which degrees (or certificates) are required for this??

Thanks!

[Roadtrip]

Which Air Force? Lots of nations represented here on the BB.

[scroggs]

:hmm:

First, you really must read the thread that mcgoo pointed you to. It is called Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649) It sits at the top of the forum, therefore it's not difficult to find. Once you have been through that (it will take you some time), by all means come back and ask questions. Think carefully about how you word your questions; we cannot give you useful answers unless you tell us all the relevant info about yourself and your circumstances. Like where you are in the world, for instance.

Scroggs

[Rapidfire465]

I did read it and btw i was wondering about the US (United States) Air Force.

[RITZER82]

Hi I wonder if anyone can kindly advice me on what you think will be the best course of action to take in order to become a fully qualified commercial airline pilot. I have just finished University in the United Kingdom and am currently in full time employment in order to save up enough money within the next two years in order to fund the training course in order to eventually become an airline pilot. However all the flight schools that I have checked out in the United Kingdom such as Oxford (OAT) and Cabair has proved to be very costly and way over my budget and the last thing I want will be to take up a loan in order to help me finance the flying course. I am considering going abroad such as USA, Canada or New Zealand as I was recommended a flight school in New Zealand called International Aviation Academy of New Zealand who are offering the whole course of up to 260 total flying hours plus conversion to JAA licence at only £33,000 and if I add on the living costs it will total to around £41,000 which is way cheaper then doing it say Cabair who charge around £53,000 which is rediculously expensive especially when you add the living costs with it. The only problem with New Zealand is it is too far from home and therefore theres the risk that I will get home sick very shortly. Can anyone advice me on what good flight schools I can go to that will be recognised by European airlines in particularly British airlines such as Ryanair or Easyjet bear in mind the total cost of the course, all assistance will be much appreciated, thank you in advance.:)

[thk917]

I'm from Malaysia, if you want cheap and your licience is acceptable, i advice you join Malaysian Flying Academy, the whole flying course its below 30k pound. You can check out their website at www.mfa.edu.my (http://www.mfa.edu.my)

[747pundit]

Ritzer82,

You're in a nice position. Only thing I'd say to you is, having spent a year in NZ, you couldn't go to a more amazing spot to do your training, assuming, of course, that you're happy with the standards out there etc. You won't have time to be homesick :{ , and even if you are, so what!! The time will fly. There's also a good school in Tauranga, up near the Mount Maunganui; Google it. Get a surfboard and you'll be laughing :ok:

747pundit

[RITZER82]

I appreciate your advice guys, about training in Malaysia do you know if they train you from zero hours to an ATPL frozen licence as I could not find this information on their site thats if I am looking in the wrong place, Malaysia is a great place as I been there for a holiday last year with my family and absolutely loved it,:) thanks.

[Lucifer]

I repeat what I posted here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=51690:

:ugh: Don't go for budget training if your aim is to fly in a jet as soon as possible - pay for quality training and ensure you have the best shot possible, or you will end up spending more paying for type ratings and waiting months for a job while not in employment.

I don't think that selecting a school (1) based upon it being a nice place to go on holiday, or (2) unverifiable as to whether it provides JAR training or not is wise (it mentions CAA structure, but not JAR approved or JAR licences). If you get homesick then it is probably not a profession for you.

(a) Go for a Class 1 Medical to ensure you are permitted to fly
(b) Get yourself aptitude tested to ensure that you have the aptitude. Desire alone is insufficient to qualify for a job (GAPAN for example).
(c) Obtain a PPL in minimum time and put yourself under pressure if you have not already done so - 3-4 weeks in good weather, and UK flying experience is a good idea for at least nav/part of it.
(d) If you can afford it, get through in the minimum possible time through the ATPL training - possibly considering integrated if you can afford it due to connections they have with employers, but if not through replicating the pressure under a tight-timescale structured modular - with a training record at one provider only, you will stand a better chance of being recommended and of training continuity.

If you come out an integrated with >90% results and first time passes, there is no reason a BA-type would not employ you directly.


You need to read threads from the past in this forum a lot and learn what licences you need and where you can get the training http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649

[RITZER82]

Thanks that was very informative:ok: , if you dont mind but what flight schools would you recommend me, I dont mind going abroad and also do you know any sites that I can go on in order to test my aptitude out and how long do medical class A certificates valid for, and is it wise for me to do a PPL licence now even though I want to go for an integrated path, thanks.:)

[Mooney12]

http://www.ctcaviation.com/wings

Have a look there...If you want to come out of training and straight into employment in a jet, without having to go through all the stress and hassle of job hunting, then try that.

[RITZER82]

Very nice Mooney but isnt it extremely tough to get a place in CTC, thanks.:)

[captwannabe]

RITZER82,

Have a look at the following for JAA training:
Flight Training Europe - www.flighttrainingeurope.com (http://www.flighttrainingeurope.com)
Sigmar/43 Air School - www.sigmaraviation.com (http://www.sigmaraviation.com) / www.43airschool.com (http://www.43airschool.com)
Oxford Aviation Training - www.oxfordaviation.net (http://www.oxfordaviation.net)
Atlantic Flight Training - www.flyaft.com (http://www.flyaft.com)
Stapleford Flight Centre - www.flysfc.com (http://www.flysfc.com)
Cabair - www.cabair.com (http://www.cabair.com)
Scandinavian Aviation Academy - www.bfsaa.se (http://www.bfsaa.se)
Aerofan - www.aerofanfto.com (http://www.aerofanfto.com)
Global Aviation - www.globalaviation.gr/en/ (http://www.globalaviation.gr/en/)
Malaysia Flying School - www.hmaerospace.com (http://www.hmaerospace.com)
Western Australian Aviation College - www.waaviationcollege.com.au (http://www.waaviationcollege.com.au)

For flight training in NZ and OZ, have a look at the Dunnunda & Godzone forums. There's a lot of helpful people and information there, and the state of the industry there.

Do a search for these FTOs on these forums to find more info. You could be reading them a while.

Good luck! :ok:

[Lucifer]

If you think that as it is 'hard' CTC is not worth trying, then why bother wasting your money at all when you will up against such highly trained guys at futuer job interviews? Look at the link I have reposted at the bottom of my prior reply.

You can't enter this profession on a whim - do you know what you are up against if you think CTC is hard?!

[RITZER82]

Now dont get me wrong Im not saying becoming an airline pilot is going to be a doddle I just meant that I dont reach CTC's minimun requiremnt of A levels in Maths and Physics which I have a GNVQ in Business and Finance and it clearly states not to bother applying if you do not meet the minimum requirement. I think they have every rights to be picky as there are more people applying for the course than there is places and therefore they will be looking at people with more then the minimum required qualifications, and isnt it true that the airline is picking up once again not just in Europe but in particular Asia and the middle east where I am hoping to get an airline pilots job there and once I have built enough hours I shall hopefully return to good old England and apply to English airlines, thanks.

[MonarchA330]

RITZER82,

Not sure if you read the CTC requirements properley, but there is no requirement to have A Levels in Maths and Physics.

There is a requirement to have a GCSE in Maths and A science subject (plus the need of 3 other GCSE's), but not A Levels in them.

M330

[RYR-738-JOCKEY]

Lucifer...DITTO! I couldn't agree more..To all of you wannabees who consider to have flying as a profession, don't do the mistake and think about costcutting. I have many friends who did that and where are they now? Flipping burgers on McDonald's. Quality costs. I've talked to many who did their training through the local flying club and who think they had their time of their life...BUT, very few of them are working for major airlines now. If you're happy with a future as an instructor on SEP or fire watch in a C-172, then be my guest. But if you have higher ambitions, go for quality such as Oxford, Cabair and the like.

[mcgoo]

what a load of bull! I am as ambitious as the next man and I don't see how spending more than double what I will be paying on training will make me any more ambitious or skillful, i will still be passing the same skills tests etc.

[The African Dude]

if you have higher ambitions, go for quality such as Oxford, Cabair and the likeThat's personal opinon, a gross generalisation and overlooks the fact that a) RITZER82 said it's way over his budget and b) this isn't an integrated vs. modular thread.

[Lucifer]

As you will not be under the same intensive learning - pure and simple - see the last comment on my point (b) below.

When you sit in the sim for the first time at any airline, do you think they want someone who is proven to have passed a course that puts them under pressure to achieve results in the minimum time, or someone who has achieved - but there is no evidence either way of whether or not they are capable of achieving in the minimum time?

If you answer is "yes siree, let's waste the shareholders' money", then I am afraid you have chosen incorrectly.


mcgoo - from your perspective - do you view saving as the cash saving on the course, or do you include lost earnings through longer times training, time spent waiting for interview, time spent waiting for integrated guys to be recruited ahead of you etc?

African Dude - he/she asked "Hi I wonder if anyone can kindly advice me on what you think will be the best course of action to take in order to become a fully qualified commercial airline pilot." You would be naive to suggest that debate is not part and parcel of such.

[mcgoo]

lucifer

my training will not take longer at all, i did my ppl in november last year, i'vew just done mod 1 of atpl exams and have mod 2 booked for september with hour building in november with multi and cpl and then IR and MCC early next year, all this while working 10-12 hours a day full time, if that's not an intensive high pressure learning environment then i don't know what is, and money wise, i will complete all my training for about 25-30k, an integrated course will cost about 70k all in plus my loss of earnings, so i will be saving about 70k doing it my way rather than integrated and for that sort of money no i dont mind having to get off my backside and go the extra mile knocking on doors and tracking the right people down to get my interviews

also surely getting a job comes down the person at the end of the day, you think people who have been on an integrated course and been offered an interview will automatically get the job, i think not

[The African Dude]

Lucifer: Wrong.

Copied from the original post, he asks:

"Oxford (OAT) and Cabair has proved to be very costly and way over my budget and the last thing I want will be to take up a loan in order to help me finance the flying course ......
"..... Can anyone advice me on what good flight schools I can go to ......bear in mind the total cost of the course"

Modular vs. Integrated has been debated ad infinitum, it's a waste of Danny's bandwidth to say anything other than "do a search for mod vs. integrated if you can't decide between them".

As for the intensity of the learning - where does one stand if doing a Modular course whilst working? It would be naive to suggest that Bristol Groundschool students who do the course over a long period of time do not do as well as those who do it in minimum time.

And finally, "puts them under pressure to achieve results in the minimum time" - I beleive flying schools make money from students who have to buy extra hours over the legal minimum. Not with unneccesary training either - I would doubt that the minimum time pressure is anything but a function of the students state of mind and wallet, both of which have a limit somewhere! :)


Edit to add: as for Modular "longer times training, time spent waiting for interview, time spent waiting for integrated guys to be recruited ahead of you" - well I think you should really back up what you say with evidence unless you want to lose credibility!

[Lucifer]

I neither suggested you are lazy nor that anyone automatically gets any job. Rather that one is viewed and proven in companies as a lower training risk than another.

Those are facts in the industry, not a matter of personal judgement over anyone's particular choices.

Am I wrong or are you trying to convince yourself you are right? I wonder.

[mcgoo]

you can wonder what you like lucifer, i don't need to convince myself of anything, if i don't get a job, i don't simple as that, i wont have lost anything, if i do get a job, then i will be over the moon and without having a huge debt or staking my parents house on the gamble.

[The African Dude]

"Those are facts in the industry" - May I see them please? I read the mod vs integrated thread but never saw them :bored:
Note that I did at no point advocate Modular over Integrated - once again, it has been debated over and over again on here. RITZER82, make your choice on the basis that with a frozen ATPL and minimum hours getting a job will be down to luck and contacts, and when you have lots of experience it will be irrelevant where you trained anyway. Good luck! :ok:

[RITZER82]

Very interesting comments guys thanks, but this has left me very confused indeed,:ugh: I still want to definately push my career as an airline pilot but now I cant decide if I want to go for a Modular or an integrated course as everyone has a mixed feeling about it on this thread and else where, but I have at last decided that I shall do my training in the UK rather then abroad such as with OAT or Cabair which I am about to book a seminer with Cabair very soon. My uncle who is a Captain for Qatar airways done his modular training with Cabair and recommended them. By the way what do flight schools test you on for their assessment process and I just want to know what topics to concetrate on in Maths and Physics as I have just pulled out my dusty GCSE text books which I used 7 years ago, thanks.

[Pilot Ginj]

... I dont reach CTC's minimun requiremnt of A levels in Maths and Physics which I have a GNVQ in Business and Finance a....


Ritzer I agree with some of the other guys.. would it not be worth giving CTC a shot? I have a GNVQ in Engineering, no A-Levels and am half way through the course... Don't be put off by requirements laid down on websites etc.. Its always worth giving it a shot regardless ;)

Regards homesickness, this aint the sort of career where your home at 5pm everynight, get used to the travelling :}

[RITZER82]

Unfortunately I have a D in Maths and Science even in my GCSE level as the reason why I had poor GCSE grades was because I had family issues and had to move right in my final years of my GCSE therefore by going to a different high school they had different GCSE syllabus, sucks doesnt it.:{

[RYR-738-JOCKEY]

Being under pressure in the sence that you have to work, and because of that you cannot give the training your full attention....that's impressing, however it won't make you a better pilot. It should take two years, 100% focus, to get a fATPL. If you don't have the money or the time, then you have to aim accordingly, carreer-wise. There are thousands of lowtimers out there, you need to stand out of the crowd.

[XL5]

I'll play devil's advocate on this one.

From LuciferAs you will not be under the same intensive learning - pure and simple

Sometimes this intensive learning achieves little, it can in fact prove counter productive. True that it's a vehicle for rapidly hauling someone up to pass standard but the trip to examination proficiency unfortunately allows little time for the assimilation and consolidation of that which has been learned. The end product is that of the monkey see monkey do variety rather than one having any depth of ability.

For push-button aircraft though a monkey works just fine, so perhaps the banana route is the way to go. And after all, any practice that saves the shareholders money (you did bring that up somewhere) must be a good and noble thing, right?

In the training environment I've encountered those having type ratings acquired rapidly with no time on type. All goes well until the script departs from that which has been rehearsed, things then fall apart because there's no reservoir of competency attained by experience from which to draw.

Successful navigation through the obstacle course for today's airline employment may well require some form of integrated training, but your stated competency and suitability advantages of such training are completely duff.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Ritzer

Try not to worry about the debate you started. Mod.v Intergrated will be argued out on these forums long after we are all departed (if RYR haven't forced Danny out of business). You need to choose a school and location that is right for YOUR personal circumstances. If you want to be near family and friends for support then find somewhere near your home. If you want to train in a 'club' atmosphere then choose a small airfield/school. If you would like somewhere warm with a beach then it's abroad, or Bournemouth failing that;) . Point is it's no use signing up to something like Oxford thinking it will improve your job prospects and then finding it doesn't suit you, and you are unhappy there.

To avoid this firstly read the sticky at the top of the page as was offered to you, if you haven't already. Secondly when it becomes time to look at various training establishments make sure you travel to look at each one. I mean go visit, have a look at their facilities, have a look at the aircraft and have a look at the area nearby if you plan living there. Talk to the instructors there, the support staff, but most importantly talk to some of the current students, they will the best sourse of information and will tell you what the school is really like to train at. Ignore any brochures you are sent/pick up - all they are useful for is telling you how much you would be paying, if you got through the course in minimum hours and didn't need to eat or have the occassional beer.

When you have carefully chosen the school that best matches your requirements, you can then worry about whether you will be on an integrated or modular course. The only 'fact' I will offer you regarding that debate is that despite what Oxford et al may want you to believe, modular guys get jobs just the same as integrated guys get jobs. The problem is getting your foot in the door, and there is no evidence - despite what has been said on this thread by some - that conclusively prooves an integrated course will get you that first airline job quicker. The majority of guys I fly with either got their initial training through the forces or paid as they went on a modular course, and used several different schools. I'm not offering that as a scientific survey result, just what I've noticed from talking to fellow pilots in my airline.

Pprune is a good source of info but you have to sort through the threads and establish the good info/advice from the bad, and that takes a bit of time. I can't stress enough; don't let what you read on here have too much of an influence on your decision as to where or how you undertake your basic licence training.Where you train is important, so you are wise to seek the advice of others, just be aware of the limitations of asking such a generic question on this forum! Having read your posts I'm sure like the vast majority of us you can most likely only afford one shot at basic training, so just make sure it is your decision.

Good Luck:ok:

[RITZER82]

Thanks guys again a very interesting debate been argued here, like I say I shall be definately training in the UK as I need to be close with my parents as they are both disabled, but I am thinking of going to New Zealand for a holiday with my family and checking out a few flight schools there, and the question whether I should do the integrated or the modular approach still is an issue that I need to decide and establish.

I suppose if you come out of flight school having successfully passed the course whether being the modular or the integrated route, hours will still be lowand as RYR has commented that there are a lot of pilots with low hours out there you can always add more hours by taking block flying time such as going to the states where it provides cheap hour building flights.

further views will be always appreciated on this thread, thanks:)

[da come back kid]

Hello people,as you might gather,im new to this and what buch of people you seem like,from my earliest time think i think ive always wannted to become a pilot but numereous factors,academic and finance's have hindered me,im 27 and am seriously considering doing it in 2007 in the fall.would I be considered too old to do so for abinito training and if not which flight school would be the better choice? oxford or jerez? thanks guys.:)

[Leezyjet]

Try running a search in the wannabe's section. All your questions and ones you hadn't even thought of will be answered there.

:ok:

[scroggs]

All together now: Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649)

Scroggs

[JAG3]

Ive been interested for years in the raf and applying for WSO but in the last few weeks i have been wondering about a civilian airline pilot. I know all the requirements for the raf aircrew but dont know much for a civi pilot.
I was wondering if anyone could post some advice about:-
What the educational requirements?
Medical requirements?
Way of life eg. hours, travel and culture?
How to join?
Do you need a PPL?
RAF or Commercial?

Sorry guys just realised this is probably the wrong forum!
You dont have to reply

Thanks for your advice?

[thirtysomething]

Hi,

Im 29 and have about 50 hours flying time.. in freefall :) . I have done a bit of unnoficial right hand seat stuff in our pilatus pc6 ( odd plane to fly i am told but i make a reasonable job of it ) . I am thinking about rekindling a childhood ambition and hope this is the correct forum section. If not I apologise in advance and ask to be " moved " :)

I can afford about 50,000 stg training fees without a bond due to my financial postion and am aged 29. I live in Madrid. I read here there is some training operation in Jerez but the buzz seems to be about oxford.

Does my age ( i see a lot of 21 year old people talking about Oxford and im only thinking about it ) count against me in reality ?

I can do the PPL here at our skydiving centre quite cheaply , but ( and perhaps its just marketing ) Oxford say on their website its better to do everything with them. Is a PPL a PPL no matter where its done UK / US / Spain ?

One thought for myself to hour build is to work towards being an instructor ( currently im a skydiving instructor aswell as the MD of the school ) , what are the minimum hours required to become an instructor?

Lastly ( and if you have got this far I thank you for your patience ) could somebody direct me to a good website with a clear breakdown of whats required / involved in the various ratings ?

Thank you

David

[scroggs]

Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649)

Scroggs

[balhambob]

THirtysomething,

I find myself in a pretty similar position to you.

I'm 30 years old and a chartered accountant but am considering taking the plunge in the next 6 months. I have about 70 grand saved up. I have done quite a bit of reseach but still have alot to find out.

Try looking on www.gapan.org (http://www.gapan.org) for an article called 'so you want to be a pliot'

I get the feeling its gonna be a hard road ahead but the end result would be an amazing career if all went to plan.

Some initial thoughts I have (others please feel free to shoot me down if you think I'm wrong):


I am 30 and would like to get quilified ASAP so will be prob go for an intergrated course with one of the big flight schools. This will be quickest route to frozen ATPL
Take what the flights schools say with a large pinch of sale. I had a long chat recently with OAT and they told me the market was buoyant and that 95% of grads were gaining employment within a year - I find that hard to believe when looking at the threads been posted on this site
Cabair seems to offer pretty much the same package as OAT but at 10 grand cheaper.
Stapleford in Essex seems to be about another 10 grand cheaper than Cabair
If I can get qualified at 32 I dont think age would count against me. I'm sure I could put a positive spin on it and work it to my advantage over other candidates when applying to airlines.Would be interested to hear how you get on/progress with your plans

Also would like to know more about type ratings:


How do you decide which one to do?
Does it vastly improve your chances of landing a job?
Good Luck

Rob

[thirtysomething]

Hi Rob,

Im glad to hear from you. I took the advice in the other reply and have been sobered but not dettered. I live in Madrid so im also looking at Jerez ( great weather ). In terms of the age i have reached the same conclusion as you, i have my advantages in the sense that i have taken a few knocks and had my share of success. I think at 19 i would not have been ready to do it , thinking life owed me something.


I am gonna enrol for a PPL on Monday and see that I really do like flying and dont struggle too much with that. During that I plan to do the GAPEN tests which are mandatory in any case to be accepted onto the Integrated course.

David

[AeroEng]

Like many of you out there i am a wanabee pilot. I have one year left at uni after which i will begin focusing all my energy on becoming a pilot.

What i am looking for is some good advice on the different routes to becoming an airline pilot and any experiences people may have had.

I dont what this to become like the other threads on this wanabee forum with people like myself looking for advice and being met with the usual negative attitude of how becoming a pilot is too difficult and how theres not enough jobs and so on....

I accept that this is a competitive industry and that it can be difficult to get started but when you want something enough there is always a way.

Cheers :)

[mcgoo]

start here mate, this will keep you busy for a few hours!

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649

[VFE]

What i am looking for is some good advice on the different routes to becoming an airline pilot and any experiences people may have had.

If I could 'do it all again' the route I'd choose would be modular unless part-sponsorship is still a possibility?

I would do the PPL and CPL in the USA with the ATPL groundschool at Bristol. I'd even consider FAA PPL if it were cheaper. You only need an ICAO PPL and 150 hours to start the JAA CPL.

For the IR I'd choose BCFT at Bournemouth.

MCC? Cheapest available.

I would also factor for the flying instructor rating at the end - screw the self funded type rating 'option' - ethically it's amoral, shows financial immaturity to potential employers, and most importantly it's too much money for the slight increase in job prospects it provides.... IMHO, of course. However, if you landed a job on the basis of paying for your type rating I'd forget about the FIC.

Take one step at a time. Don't be afraid to spend time on your training - aeroplanes will still need pilots by the time you qualify and the longer it takes the more you'll be able to evaluate whether the career is definately for you. People admire someone who has 'come up through the system' as it were, as opposed to integrated guys (sorry integrated guys!).

Lastly, I'd be prepared for disappointment at the end - those who give up the dream are roughly a silent 45% of the total who qualify.

Good luck!

VFE.

[bishop99]

I can see this turning into a modular Vs Intergrated debate again. :(

[VFE]

Well if that helps the kids looking at jumping through the hoops today then so be it!

VFE.

[hardcase]

i would choose PAT in Bournemouth over BCFT for your IR

similar aircraft with fantastic instructors

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Aero Eng,

You will find all sorts of opinions here, and take some with a pinch of salt, as alot of people, myself included will promote 'the way they did it' to be the best way, however, that may not suit you. You can get a flavour from PPRUNE on what it is all about, but visit these places and get a feel for yourself.

I must admit, from reading VFE's post, I found the whole post quite depressing. You already know it is going to be hard work, and may take a while to get where you want to be, however, with hard work and determination you will reach your goal.

From experience of my own and from flying with people who have done PPL and commercial courses in the USA, I would complete all professional flight training in the UK if you can afford it. Flying an aeroplane is flying an aeroplane, but for the ease of becoming comfortable and confident flying in UK airpspace for you IR, I would do your CPL in the UK.

With regard to type ratings, well, its an option. I have no first hand experience, due to the fact I do not have the money to pay for one, however, everyone I know who has done one, has landed a job flying the aircraft they are rated on.

All the best with it, as we know its hard work, however, enjoy it!

[VFE]

Yes PAT are great too - the Mollisons know their stuff alright. They were my first choice 6 years ago when I was looking at routes/options, a top outfit.

I am probably one of the only guys around here who have experienced both modular and integrated routes so therefore (dons big head) I like to think I know my stuff.

On balance, integrated was too much money for too little. Granted, I started an integrated school just after 911 and not long after the inception of the JAA so ground instructors and us students both had our work cut out. What I disliked was the 'subordinate' mentality of the establishment at the particular school I was paying (they have since sold out, changed heads etc..). When you are paying big bucks, the last thing you need is to be made to feel like a schoolkid, it is not only patronising but very demoralising, not to mention bloody annoying seeing as your money is financing their lifestyle - there was no consumer sensibility whatsoever and that is the biggest problem with training providers of the larger variety. That was my main gripe - plus the fact the groundschool notes were crap and I failed three out of my first six exams and wasn't 'allowed' to start flying training despite the fact my money had been nestling in their bank account and making them interest for nigh on 3 months at least...

Modular suited me far more and therefore that is the route I'll naturally advocate because that is when I gained control of my destiny and started to succeed so CAT3C Autoland is quite right on that score. One doesn't like to sound depressing but some reality is always required on these pages from time to time. PPRuNe will not get you through the training - hard graft, motivation and an inner conviction that you are fundamentally right in your aim is the key to getting through (and that can often spell 'selfishness' to those you love) but the last thing you need is problems with your training provider. It is a tough ole trip so apologies if I sound depressing but I'm a realist now and from briefly looking around wannabe's this week for the first time in yonks, there aren't too many of us posting these days.

You pays your money and you takes your choice/gamble. The only irrefutable peice of advice out there is that you should never pay up front - no matter how good the deal, in fact that should ring even bigger alarm bells. And if you want a tip from me: factor in an instructor rating at the end, register for tax before commencing your PPL training and claim back all your VAT at the end because you can be classed as 'self-employed instructor'. Now, had someone told me that at the start I'd be about £10K better off! Be warned you only have six months after 'purchasing your services' to register and claim back the VAT. So do it before you start your training.

The VAT on your training, maps, pens, clothing, you name it... can all be claimed back. The Inland Revenue may need to see a business plan regarding your self-employed status but apart from adding VAT to your fee's when you instruct you'll just need to keep all your invoices. Start being sensible about your money from the very beginning and you'll notice that your attention for small detail on the training side is increased because you're already becoming accustomed to the pilots mentality of analysing the finer points and looking after yourself. Self preservation is a key instinct in becoming a pilot and that works on more than a primary survival level.

Remember: it is Commercial aviation so, leave the heart out when making decisions.

VFE.

[sicky]

Can you only claim back the VAT if you go on to instruct?

[VFE]

Well the Inland Revenue will probably want to know some further details of your business so therefore I guess you'll only manage that if you're self employed instructor or self employed commercial pilot.

Many chopper CPL's do it but for some reason fixed wing don't bother, probably because they didn't realise, like me!

VFE.

[sicky]

Well it seems you don't get anything unless you ask these days so, always worth a try. Whats the worst that can happen...? :}

[bigCHRIS]

Hi guys,

I'm really keen to train as a commercial pilot, but not sure exactly how to get going.

I do have a degree, and am currently living in North West England working as a journalist!

I've been told to get my PPL so am doing that now.

Any help would be fully excellent!!

Cheers,

Chris:)

[mcgoo]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649

[bigCHRIS]

Top draw!! Thanks a lot!

[bmandimika]

my name is barney and im 22 yrs of age and no flying experience.my desire is to become an airline pilot and how do i get sponserships to pay for the fees that i will be charged and where can i get such information.thanx barn

[Grass strip basher]

You could try working and saving money.... no one is going to pay for your training these days... why should they?? .... that unfortunately went out years ago.... try reading the "stickies" at the top of this forum that should give you a better idea of what to expect.

[scroggs]

bmandimika please do not make the same post on several forums - I've found this on Fragrant Harbour, Dununda and Godzone, and Wannabes - Interviews, Jobs and Sponsorships.

Read the Archive sticky at the top of the forum and learn a bit about what is required. That will help you frame your questions intelligently.

Scroggs

[Nevs]

hello to everyone who is reading this, i know what i am about to ask is asked so many times but i just want some good feedback. Basically i want to be where everyone else wants to be in the aviation business "a commercial Pilot", i have just finished school at 18, and i now hold 10gcse's and 4 a levels and hopefully in september ill be off to one of the top5 uni's in the uk for a 3 year BA, now after that i hope to start my training either modular or intergrated(lets not start the debate)

basically all i want to know is will my degree be worthwile for the aviation industry, i know its very good to fall back on if everything goes pear shaped but does it give me a bit of an advantage when i come to look for a job at an airline( if i ever get that far) and ive only done about 7 hours worth of training for my ppl at the moment, what would be advised for me to do from now until the end of uni, should i try and finish off my ppl? or should i get a student job within some aviation related business? i have no idea, why is this the hardest job to get to become a pilot, anyway someones got to fly those A380's sometime, maybe me someday i hope

[mcgoo]

have you been through this yet?

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649

[A330ismylittlebaby]

I have floundered around, i have worked out things 5 years ago 3 years ago and a year ago and i have forgotten everything.

i basically want to be an airline pilot, i am a british citizen so here's my problems thanks for listening:)

I think the best option is to do FAA all the way, and then get a job for an airline which isn't in the uk.

now i remember there arent many schools in usa that are visa approved or was that caa approved i am all mangled up.

Q. can i do my faa licences and get a visa to do the flight training, then once i have done that, can i as a british citizen get a job say with singapore airlines as i wouldnt be a citizen of there country and i would love to live there.

BIG QUESTION= i have poor gcse's would the airlines in the far east look at my grades or would they just test me there and then.

i have also had alot of temping jobs like 14 in 6 years.


Thanks

A330

[captwannabe]

Tackle each problem individually..........

Research the different schools in America.

I imagine it would be difficult to get a job with Singapore Airlines. They may require their pilots to convert their ATPL, but check that out. In some countries, there are nationality restrictions, so as a non-citizen, it may not be possible to get a job there. The aviation industry is different all over the world, so have a look at the PPRuNe forums about the different regions.

Try to get A Levels.

Do an aptitude test, such as the GAPAN one.

See if you can get a Class 1 medical, because without one, you can't fly commercially.

Regards,
Captwannabe

[A330ismylittlebaby]

i see, i'll try that gapan and maybe then i wouldnt need the a levels as i would have to redo gcses just to start a levels, i will probably stop at flying instructor, do you think other countries would accept me as an faa/jaa instructor, i mean i know usa i couldnt do it there because you need a visa. maybe i should just try europe if the pay is good, my idea of good pay is £30,000

[Lucifer]

Gee - you don't have a clue. You are going to waste an awful lot of money if you don't wise up.

Don't sit there fixated on an airline career if you can't nail down a job or obtain decent academic qualifications behind you. You don't appear to have any idea of how to get there other than taking the lowest cost route, which is totally incorrect, and through which you will probably end up with a worthless licence as you can't live and work in the US following training.

Do you have any experience of teaching people? Are you any good? As if not, FI is a little foolish a route to take.

Taking GAPAN aptitude tests does not preclude you from sorting out your academic background in any way - it shows you whether you have the capacity to become a pilot or not.

Read all of this on this link, then come back and ask again:

http://www.balpa.org.uk/intranet/How-to-bec/index.htm

[rick0]

Hey all,

As you can tell, i'm new here. I'm not 100% sure if this is the right forum to post this topic in? if it's not, I'm sorry :)

Anyway, I was wondering if you could give me some advice. I'm currently 15 - 16 in August - and have just finished my GCSES's and i'm going to 6th form next school year. Well, i've pretty much set my eyes on becoming a commerical pilot latley and I was wondering what the best steps to becoming a pilot are.

I'm not particulary clever and my results probabaly arn't going to be A's - mostly C's + B's. I'm hopefully going to study Psychology, Applied ICT and Graphics Art.

I presume I'll need to pay for training but that's not too much of a problem, I dont know how much it costs but i've got £15k saved up and is currently growing and I could probabaly stretch to £30k depending on the situation.

Generally I think I oculd become a pilot, but my eyesight's not that good - I wear glasses for watching TV etc - is that a big problem?

Thanks for reading :):)

[Frank Furillo]

Hi ricko,
Well the first thing to do is have a trial lesson at your local school and see how you like it. If I were you I would stay at school and get into university, get a degree, it will always be there to fall back on.
Then save like mad, if you can.
You will need a Class 1 Medical to hold a CPL, your inital has to be done by the CAA at Gatwick. It is upto you when to do this, but if you are going to do your PPL I would get it done then. As for eyesight the CAA link regarding this is: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/49/SRG_MED_JAR_C1_Initial_Visual_Stds(June-06).pdf
Then it is only a matter of what type of training you do, I would go modular rather than intergrated, because of the cost saving, (Modular approx £30, 35K and intergrated £65K+ don't forget living expenses as well though.)
Hope this helps.
Frank

[n90bar]

Hi Ricko,

Being away to just start on an Integrated course, I feel I should chip in my pennies worth aswell. As Frank has mentioned It is cheaper to go down the modular route. For this you usually need your PPL and Class 1.
I too wear glasses, but this didn't really cause a problem with the CAA. I have a restriction on my medical which states that I must carry a spare set of glasses with me on the flightdeck.
You will find that there are alot of threads on this forum regards wheither modular is better than integrated and vice versa. If you run a search it should come up with some stuff.
As Frank also rightly mentioned regardless which route you go down - but particularly with the integrated route you also would need to allow cash for living expenses. So on top of Some 65k to the FTO, you may need another 10k for living expenses.
For now however the main thing is to get good grades at school. Most FTO's look for a minumum of GCSE C passes in Maths, English and Physics. Maths and Physics are particularly important to have!

Good Luck!

[rick0]

Hey,

Thanks so much for your replies, much appreciated. I have a few further questions. Firstly I was wondering what's the mininum age to fly and have lessions?

I live in the Wirral - near liverpool - and i've seen a flight school website based at Liverpool airport - http://www.lfs.flyer.co.uk/ - do they look good?

Thanks alot :):):)

[captwannabe]

I think you have to be 17 to get a Class 1, not sure about a Class 2. The instructors at the flying school will be able to tell you what age you have to be to get a PPL. At 16 you can log hours towards it though. You still might have to take out a loan, no matter what route you go down, but it sounds like you are working hard towards getting the funds in place. 99% of people will probably have to take out some loan. Work hard at school. Maths and Physics are important, but if you decide not to do them, learn how to study properly, because that is invaluable.

[coolman775]

Hello everyone ,
I am one of these people who wants to be a Pilot . but from my questions that I posted a lot of people keep saying to me build a lot of hours , or good luck building hours ...etc . I want to know is it hard to build hours ? and is there a places that I can go to for building my hours ? please help me . thanks .

[mcgoo]

it doesn't sound like you have done any research towards being a pilot, this will help:

Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION! (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649)

[vest]

hi all,i'm a newbie here as you can see this is my first post,so i'm sorry if i put my thread in the wrong place,first of all i want to know about flight school i'm in high school now,i'll graduate next year,i'm interested to take a pilot school,is it possible for me to take a flight training directly after i graduate from high school??do i need to take a major from the college first??and 1 more thing is that i'm using a glasses is it possible for me to join pilot school??how long is the average time to complete the school and start a career as an first officer in an airline??thanks for your reply,..i appreciate it,......:)

[rick0]

Hi,

I'm probabaly going to book a test flight for next month, to see what it's like etc - oh and the great experience. I was wondering if there's any general limit for someone to fly a fixed wing aircraft in the UK? like driving?

Also, once, or if I gained a PPL, would I have to then train to get a CPL? how much would it cost? and what would be after that?

Thanks :):)

[scroggs]

Read the link given in the post 2 above yours. Or check the very first post in this thread.

Scroggs

[BWEEpilot]

Hey guys,I'm a newbie hear and as the topic siad I'm an aspiring CP.I'm only sixteen,but I konw alot about the aviation industry.I am on airliners.net and othe aviation enthusiast sites daily informing myself on the latest news and the latest pics.I am a Trini and as soon as I finish high school I plan to immediately pursue my career.My plans are to get my degree in aeronautical science from ERAU and get my licences.
That's where I need your help fellas,after getting the degree,if it is the right way to go,should I build flight hours at the college or elsewhere.I need your full advice,whether there are more financially feasible Uni's with the same quality and rep,building flight hours,ratins in various aircraft(777 MY DREAM!:cool: ),the best place to look for a job and finally your life experiences from the start of your Edu. and training to your climbing or already peak of career.

As a note,my decision to do this is not as a result of finding it interesting.I had a burning passion for this profession form the age of 7 yrs.Right now,I just use flight simulator from microsoft and I fly fo a virtual airline.The FTG group.It's certainly not the real thing although close, but that is just until.

Thanks in advance guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:)

[mcgoo]

Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION! (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649)

[Felix Saddler]

My plans are to get my degree in aeronautical science from ERAU and get my licences.

Hope you dont expect everything to work out as you planned.

[futureflight]

Hi,
Am ambitious to become a Pilot. Am currently working as a Software Engineer and haven't had any prior experience in flying.

Could you please let me know the procedure, entrance exams and the license that need to be obtained to become a Pilot (Passenger/Cargo).

It would be great if you could throw some light on the below queries:
1. Will the Commercial Pilot License be enough to make an entry in the airline industry to become a Pilot.
2. Books / Preparation needed to clear the exams & Pilot Aptitude tests (WOMBAT)
3. How much it would cost do the courses in INDIA
4. How long duration I need to wait to become a commercial Pilot.


Any reply to the above questions will be appreciated.

[LeeH88]

As you may be able to tell, Im not a pilot, Im only 18 but am aspiring to become one.
In response to your questions (more experienced members may be able to correct me on my answers, so feel free).
1. You need an ATPL (Airline Transport Pilots license), this is a CPL with IR, and usually MCC.
2. I've got an assessment day at OAT coming up soon and I personally dont really feel I need any brushing up on Maths/Physics, I've just finished college, but you may want to touch up on certain areas of maths and physics, at a GCSE level (http://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize I think!).
3. Not a Clue, use google/here/other aviation forums to try and find some fliying schools in India, you can always ask advice on here before progressing anywhere.
4. All depends, Im looking at an integrated course at OAT and that is approx. 65 weeks, generally about 18 months I believe.

Lee H ;

[mcgoo]

start here Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION! (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649)

[freakin89]

:cool: Howdy!

I'm quite aware that this topic has possibly been covered before but I have no idea how to go about finding such things.

I've just done my GCSEs (im in England), for which I expect to get 11 A-Cs, although hopefully only As and Bs. I'm continuing on to a 6th form college, where I plan to study Law, Classical Civilisations, Spanish and French. But I was thinking about careers recently and I rather like the idea of becoming a pilot. Does it matter that I don't want to do physics or mathematics at A-level? :bored:

I can't say I've always been interested in aviation, or that its even in my family background, because thats not true. However, I am extremely interested in travel and I rather thought this might be a nice career to have (I hear the pay isn't bad either!). Only problem is, I have no idea how to get started.

You need a "Class One Medical" ? How do I go about that? Dyou go for a PPL first and then find the money to continue to a ATPL or can you go straight to doing some kind of ATPL? What kind of costs am I looking at (I hear it's expensive) ? How can I go about getting a sponsorship (if at all)? And is it possible to earn a PPL during my weekends? :confused:

Bear in mind that I will still be in full-time education and have never flown a plane before. I've flown ON planes many times. That's about as close as I get. ;)

Any input is greatly appreciated - thanks in advance.
Sarah
:O

[captwannabe]

Have a look at Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION! (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649)

Go for a trial lesson and see if you like it :ok:

[Run Run]

Hi
]I have an interest in the aviation field… I am wondering if someone could give me some information on the job after the fist few years, every job is exciting when you are just starting but then reality hits in….
What do pilots do after the plane is up in the air and there are no problems? Talk to each other?
Is it like any other job that it becomes repetitive and boring?
After 5 yrs of getting up at 4.00am to go to the airport do you feel like saying why did I do this job?
Do you get sick of the timetables early and late shifts? And then delays on top of that? ( never knowing what time you would be home for)
Due to the quick turn around at airports do crew have much of a chance to have to chat? Or is it all work when you arrive at the airport?
Do you get sick of listening to others in the airline profession while on stopovers? And wish you were home or out with real friends? Or what happens when you are with someone who does not have the same sense of humour as you?
Do you mind that you are always under the control of airline management and cant for e.g. set-up your own business and work for yourself?
Due to the number of limited jobs do pilots normally stay with the same airline?
Is it the aim of most pilots to go into the management role?

Thanks for your responses…:ok:

Edited to make it readable.

Scroggs

[speedrestriction]

Ouch...my eyes :{

SR

[Piltdown Man]

Please use a larger typeface. But to answer:- After 15 years I still enjoy flying; No; No; No; Yes - No; Sometimes - my colleagues are friends - you do your job; No; Depends on airline; No.

[Woof etc]

Asking the right questions though (even if a bit timidly. )

Too many pilots get into the flying business with no real understanding of what the life of an airline pilot is really like. I'm not one myself yet, but having a number of friends that are, I have a much better insight into what the lifestyle is like than I did when I started out.

In the beginning its all about getting the licences, ratings, getting twin time, turbine time, jet time etc. etc, which is all challenging and exciting. Once you're in the airline its a day to day routine, and unless you want to lose your seniority you're probably going to be there for a while. Then its going to be the lifestyle that's all important. Check out what the experienced jocks are discussing on the other forums - it's all about T and Cs, rosters, basings, pay etc. etc. Not how cool it is driving a big alumumium tube around the sky.

If you want to decide if flying as a career is for you, you need to judge it based on the ultimate lifestyle, once you have reached the airline, or whatever type of flying it is you want to do. Not on how crazy you are about aeroplanes, how you enjoy flying a C172, or how you enjoy the mental challenge of studying for the exams.

[Chesty Morgan]

Is it like any other job that it becomes repetitive and boring? NO

After 5 yrs of getting up at 4.00am to go to the airport do you feel like saying why did I do this job? YEP. Until I break out of the overcast at 500 feet and enjoy the best view in the world. Where else do you get to look cool in your Bay-Rans at 5am?

Do you get sick of the timetables early and late shifts? And then delays on top of that? ( never knowing what time you would be home for) NOPE

Due to the quick turn around at airports do crew have much of a chance to have to chat? OCCASIONALLY

Or is it all work when you arrive at the airport? YES

Do you get sick of listening to others in the airline profession while on stopovers? And wish you were home or out with real friends? Or what happens when you are with someone who does not have the same sense of humour as you? NO. NO, I see enough of my "real" friends. You enjoy each others sense of humour and get pissed.

Do you mind that you are always under the control of airline management and cant for e.g. set-up your own business and work for yourself? NO

Due to the number of limited jobs do pilots normally stay with the same airline? Depends what you want from your job and what kind of life style you want.

Is it the aim of most pilots to go into the management role? Not a chance!

[scroggs]

Run Run

Within the Archive Reference Threads - READ BEFORE YOU POST A QUESTION! (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649) thread, you will find links to threads which answer your questions.

The thread isn't difficult to find, it's at the top of the forum.

Scroggs

[decy]

hello everyone,part of my post is a little embarrasing,and the rest just general enquiries,ok first off as everyone else on this forum im in love with flying and would love to work for an airline like aer arran or easyjet,but i have a little problem,well i have only one hour logged and the reason for this is when i was 16 i got my first flying lesson and abslouletly loved it,
but around this time last year i decided im gonna go get my pilots licence and got a loan of 5 grand to start ppl training,im 22 now by the way,
anyway my fisrt lesson was goin to be in a grob 115,a nice little plane but i would have prefered a cherokee or a cessna,the second we took off i felt really really sick and just couldnt wait to land,when we got on the ground i left the school in utter disapointment because its my ultimate dream to be a pilot but my stomach couldnt take it and i just wasted my 5 grand so i put the money back in the bank and ill admit it,i cried because i didnt know what to do,and now a year on im still upset about what happend and still dream of being a pilot,but im still afraid it mite happen again,and i want to enjoy flying, not jus think about am i gonna be sick each time,i know i have the ability to fly its just im a bit disheartened,any advice on what i should do would be greatly appreciated,also i know it can be very tough gettin an airline job at the end of it all,is it really worht it??

thanks

[dno1playa]

Hey
Why don`t you try another flight school around Ireland there is two flight school up at Weston aerodrome NFC (National flight centre) and sky trace.NOT ADVERTISING FOR EITHER SCHOOL.NFC fly`s cessna aircraft and sky trace fly piper aircraft I think.I am currently training at NFC for my ppl.Both are good schools I have A freind traning at sky trace i will ask him what he thinks of it.NFC good atomsphere freindly instructors I like it but everbody has there own prefrence.

Good Look

P.S Please forgive me for any grammer or spelling errors and feel free to correct me if any one has any better info or suggestions

[captwannabe]

Go up for another lesson. It might have just been a once off. If you really want to become a pilot, why let one dodgy lesson put you off? Get back on the horse! :ok:

All the best

(NFC is VERY expensive.)

[Miked]

I think you will find that many of us have gone so far as to throw up in a plane at one time! unfortunately you felt ill on your first go. Get up there again and give it another go. however the more you think about being ill the more likely you are to feel it, it's mostly in the mind!!

Best of Luck

[Mercenary Pilot]

Maybe you could start by gliding to try and get used to the sensation? Its alot cheaper than powered flight and your instructor isnt sitting next to you (he's behind), so it would be a little less unpleasent for him. You can also buy special bags that absorb the smell and wont spill.

If you find flying is not for you, at least you would have most of the cash to pay back to the bank. I know of people who have paid for one of those 28 day PPL's (abroad), spent the first few lessons being very ill then going home with not much money back.

Best of luck to you whatever you decide.

:ok:

[Marky the Guitar Man]

Hey, I'm not entirely sure how they work but I have seen some PPL students wearing a kind of wrist band that helps with air sickness. I can't really comment on how good they are but I have heard they are quite good, maybe someone else has more info? Well I agree, I think you should just aim to get back into the air asap! There was also a programme on TV a while back following the training of RAF fighter pilots and I remember one guy who was training on the hawk and was suffereing from air sickness, so I'm sure it's a problem you can combat in some way or another. Good luck!

[Walk the line]

Motion sickness can be alleviated by those wrist bands-it regulates a pressure point in your wrist.

Remember one of the primary causes of motion sickness is NERVES! Relax, you will find that in time you will feel better-when the now alien environment(Cockpit) becomes a familiar second home!

Another method is to beat it out of you-get a flip in an Extra 300 (there is one in Abbeyshrule) and your motion sickness should be gone in a few hours! Maybe the wrist bands are a better idea ;)

Walk the line

[raviolis]

hey.. a practical thread finally, not the usual pish about modular vs integrated.. ;) usually started by people with zero hours.
I was the same - First lesson, felt terribly unwell. Thought it was the end of my piloting dream but decided to try again. It got better every time. As you proceed, your body gets used to it. Also, the busier you get, the less time you have to think about it. When you start doing most of the handling, it gets even easier. Usually motion sickness develops when you're not in control or you're just a passenger.

I have 30 hours now and no problems at all, glad I didn't let the first flight put me off. Just keep your eyes away from the instruments as much as you can and try not to let too much time pass before your next flight !

Hope it's of any help

[decy]

thanks evryone for the helpful replies

[go-apb]

First thread, bare with me...

I’m a UK citizen currently living and flight training in Australia. I’ve got on really well with the flight training and associated study and I’m now seriously considering progressing my flight training on my return to the UK.

Will I have to convert my Aussie PPL(A) to enrol on JAA/JAR commercial training, and if so, what's required?

I’m also unsure of the actual commercial path which will ultimately put me in a position of gainful employment should I become suitably qualified. Can anyone enlighten me in layman’s terms?

Browsing the internet I see there are JAR/JAA courses advertised in all corners of the world, does training outside of the UK or EU member state put you at a disadvantage when in a position to apply for jobs?

I’m in a financial position to train full time, in the UK if necessary - are there any prerequisites or assessments recommended before I commit to any commercial training? I’m aware it's a lot more demanding and in-depth than a PPL which most people can achieve.

I’d be grateful for any comments or feedback
Thanks in advance

[i love planes]

i been contactic pilot trnaing companies and pilots becasue i got the same qquestion will i get the job if i hade a c and the other person hade an a* and they said ye becasue airlines dont look at gcec much if i got a c and got a in my pilot liecence and the other person got an a* in there gcec but have a c in there liencence then i would get a job gcec ant for the airlines they r for you so you know if you are gd at that subject and if you got a higher grade you will learn faster. i am still at school but i when i finish school i gona trane to eb a pilot in florida or californai because there traning cost 24k-30k dolalrs and in engaldn it costs 70k-80k pounds. i been searchign for the best pilto traning scohol and the ebst one i found was www.pea.com (http://www.pea.com) becasue they cost 26k and plus when you pass (98% people apparntly do ) they find a job for you becasue they are allies with lots of companies. When i finish school i gonan go to colelge beacuse i just wont to have soem extra knowlege it's not for the grade. if you whant to ask em more question you can send me a letter good luck

[scroggs]

Anyone else have trouble reading the garbage above?

Scroggs

[captwannabe]

I speaky ze Ingleesh very good, yesh? ;) I'm joking, no offence intended. Sorry, couldn't resist :)

[MrMandala]

I'm pretty sure I once read that Douglas Bader was air sick when he first started flying......I think he got over it ok :)

[Alex-AAE]

Hi Guys and Girls. I really just wanted to ask a question. I have recently inherited a large amount, and I have always thought that one day I would like to learn how to fly. Starting out from scratch where and what would you do. My main aim is to fly for a commercial carrier, short haul. Thanks for your help. Alex
P.S OK OK i have seen the wannabe thread. The Q is what / where would you go?

[littco]

2 things you need to do first.

1) Go and have a trial flying lesson to make sure you're ok in a small plane and it is what you want to do.

2) Once you've done that, go and get your class 1 medical, because if you can't get that you wont be able to fly commerically.

After that , get your PPL and take it from there.

[asuweb]

A PPL is not neccesarily required depending on which route you go down. Do lots of your own research before you make any decisions.

Agree with littco, a trial lesson is a must.

[captwannabe]

1) Trial Lesson

2) Class 1 Medical

3) A Few More Lessons???
+
4) Research every possible option of flight training open to you, and the aviation industry

5) Choose a flight school that suits you personally

[sicky]

Dont rush into anything!

[mar1234]

hi my name is mark,
i have just recently finished my first year of alevels (AS levels). and have ended up emigrating to new zealand with my parents. :sad: ! before i came here i had looked into becoming a commercial pilot and found the prospect of having a multi million pound aircaft at my hands very appealing. i have looked into many areas from sponsorship to self-funding. while researching i found the ctc wings programme (formally ctc-mcalpine), and found that there flight training was mainly done in new zealand. which would be ideal as my family now reside there.
i have a few more months left before i can aply to any kind of scheme as i am only 17. but i was woundering if anyone could give me some advice on how to aproch these flight training companys. what to look out for, what to expect, and wether anyone else has been in a similar position to me?

also while i have bee in new zealand i have found that my AS levels are enought to get me into university, therefore would be sufficient enough to undertake flight training. my as levels are in maths ICT and Physical education. any help or advice would be much apreciated. thanks
:ok:

[TRISTAR1]

Hello Mark,

The first thing to do is to have a good look around PPRUNE.

Second is to get a medical check.

Thirdly apply to all the cadet schemes.

Fourth, find out if you are able to finance it (£50-£100 K)

[BlueRobin]

The first decision to be taken viz training is whether to get a NZ or a UK JAR licence.

AIUI NZ training is somewhat cheaper there.

[mar1234]

would the medical be of the same stature here as it is in england?

as for looing around pprune, i have found alot of usful information, just seeing as though im living in new zealand wether it would have any affect on aplications. etc

also what other cadet schemes out there train there pilots in new zealand?

as for funding, i will cross that bridge when it coems to it. i think that seems to be the biggest hurdle people have to get over before making any serious plans.

does anybody no of any advantages or disadvantages to doing my JAR licence either in uk or NZ ?

thanks

[captwannabe]

If you want to fly in Europe, you'd have to convert a NZ licence in a JAA state.

[bjkeates]

as for looing around pprune, i have found alot of usful information, just seeing as though im living in new zealand wether it would have any affect on aplications. etc

If you're thinking of applying to CTC Wings, bear in mind that the selection phases 2, 3 and 4 are carried out at Bournemouth and Dibden. So if you live in New Zealand, you're going to have to go to the UK at your own expense to attend the selection days.

With regards to your question on how to "approach these companies", I'm sure during the course of your research you'll have come across their websites. Information on how to apply is always on them.

Most FTOs which specify A-levels as a requirement mean just that - full A-levels. Not AS-levels. An AS-level is nowhere near as demanding as the full A-level; in the vast majority of cases, the A2 stage is much more advanced. If you got your AS-levels in the UK, then it's unlikely that they'd be satisfactory to such FTOs. Most, however, are prepared to accept equivalent qualifications, so if your AS-levels are from New Zealand (I don't know how the education system works over here or if A/AS levels even exist) it might be worth checking with the school.

Also, without trying to sound rude, before you even start to apply to any sort of scheme, I suggest you try very hard to brush up on your written English. To put it bluntly, you won't get very far with that kind of spelling and grammar on an application form.

[rick0]

Hi,

I was wondering if A-Levels A/S levels are extremeley important/nessecary in becoming an airline pilot/general pilot for a company?

I'm currently re-evaluating what subjects I should do at 6th form but i've started to get a feeling of not really wanting to go back and just start training etc.

I've also booked my trial flight in 10 days time =)

Thanks!

ps. couldnt find anything in the archived thread list.

[PPL152]

Since a pilot's job is never secure, having at least an A Level standard is ALWAYS an advantage... having a degree is yet a bigger advantage. Even after you obtain your pilot's licence, YOU must search for a job, and, the more qualifications you have, the more the employer would like you.

In addtion, if you want to work for an airline, most airlines nowadays do ask for A Levels, at least an A level in a science subject (Maths, physics, computing, chemistry..) or business.

I would not recommend starting your training for a pilot, with just GCSE O Levels in hand. My suggestion is to continue with your academic studies, and achieve your A Levels, then decide from there!

To sum up and answer your question, I'd say they are necessary.

Good luck!

[Craigeedee]

if you want to become a commercial pilot, is it ok to just get a CPL or go for a ATPL

[iamanaussiemavrick]

If you want to get a job probably you should fly. :cool:

[ultimatepro63]

Well commercial pilots basically fly for money say jobs like banner towing and flying them parachute planes but if you want to fly for the airlines you need a atpl but a frozen atpl as they say becomes "unfrozen" when you have 1500hrs of flying experience

[erenarda]

Hi Guys,
I love flying job and currently working as a cabib crew. I started nine years a go I want to be go more as a flight deck crew.
I'm now 35 years of age, Married with two kids, A boy who's 2 years old and a girl 9 mnt.
Can u help me to give big and expensive desigion to be a F/O
What I need to do? How much money I needed? How long It takes to get many back from trainings? After all training has finished how can I found Job?
Many thanks

[moggiee]

Cost - minimum £35,000 probably quite a lot more. Try a search of this forum for a guide to obtaining a licence (for a breakdown of the process) - no doubt SCROGGS will be along soon to complain about you not having done so already.

Expect it to take at least 1 year to obtain a licence - probably longer. You will be approaching 40 by the time you have completed training and that will make job hunting harder.

Expect it to take a long time to obtain your first job - unless you can buy a type rating (another £10-20,000 depending upon aircraft type).

How long it takes to pay back depends on your salary now and the salary you get as a First Officer - probably a minimum of 5 years, nearer 10 (especially if you have to give up working whilst training).

Job hunting? Well, I'd love to have the answer. Hard work, lots of applications, knowinhg someone in a position of authority.

[utd7]

I need help !!
This is really early days for me i have just started my ppl and have only completed 2 hours and i am looking to do about 3 hours a month is this enough!! My goal is to become a pilot with an airline but one problem envisage is that a do not have maths or english at a-level grade,should i go back to college and get those grades!! I am 29 married with 2 children and currently selling new BMW`s and this is not what i want to do for the rest of my life.Where do i go once i have completed my ppl [ whats next for me].All comments welcome and i am not easily offended.
Thanks